Guild Wars 2

Was all Abbadons actions/intentions bad or did he acually do something good, before he got cast down to the realm of torment?
I’ve been wondering a bit for sometime reading wikipedias and forums and for all it looks like, it seems like Abbadon only did bad.

First. he sends demons (The Titans.) to currupt the charr in beliving of a new god, so they end up making the searing.
Second. he sends another demon, The Fortune Teller To corrupt Shiro Tagachi. This demon tells Shiro that the emperor has planned to kill Shiro, instead Shiro kills the emperor and after that Shiro gets killed and end result is the Jade wind.
Third. He sends a third demon (rakazel) disguised as human named Terick, this demon corrupts Vizier Khilbron. Rakazel manipulates Vizier to read the lost scrolls and releasing dark magic, that ended up causing the Cataclysm.

Now. . was his action of giving us Magic also meant to be a bad intention or was he acually doing something good for us?
After all his moto is “act with magic, act within reason, act without mercy” he must have had a reason to give and us magic.

Also i have a theory that his reasons for doing all of those three bad things listed above, is to be noticed again, afterall the five gods did erase all memory of him, so that no one would put questions of his existence.

It wasn’t to be noticed. He was imprisoned in the heart of the Realm of Torment, where waterfalls of torment eternally flowed on him. He caused the Jade Wind, Searing, Cataclysm, Affliction, and Nightfall for two things:

To get revenge on the other gods, and to escape his prison.

Whether he was ‘evil’ before his fall is questionable, in all honesty. Some pre-NF-release Asian-released lore says that he intended to create his own kingdom and that was why he rebelled – that he was basically a god who decided “I will rule the world my way, not their way” and his rebellion was squashed.

But other stuff implies that he was more of a Greek tragedy: he did what he thought was right, disagreed only verbally with the others, then when the Forgotten waged war on the Margonites for defacing statues of the gods other than Abaddon, defended his followers (the Margonites) from extinction, and was struck down and imprisoned (theoretically could have been for all eternity) for it.

One can easily view the bad guys as being the Forgotten, since they waged a genocidal war against the Margonites simply for defacing a single temple (the Temple of the Six Gods that rested on the Crystal Sea). That action brought Abaddon to defend his followers, which in turn brought the other five gods to defend the Forgotten – powder keg explosion, ala WWI. Though this information comes from one of the few mentioned pre-release revealed-to-Asia-only lore documents.

I’ve always gotten a rather Prometheus vibe coming from Abbadon. It almost seemed like a “what if Prometheus was the strongest god?” scenario.

Prometheus from Greek mythology was Titan (gods from before the Greek pantheon of Zeus et al). Prometheus gifted Fire to humans (giving us our creativity/ingenuity/etc), and this mad Zeus very angry. Prometheus simply could not put up a fight against Zeus and the rest of the gods, and he was imprisoned in Tartarus (analog to GW’s Realm of Torment) where he was tortured for the rest of eternity.

Abbadon gave humans (and other races?) magic, which the other gods did not like. Whereas Prometheus was easily subdued and locked away to be tortured for eternity, Abbadon was able to put up a very good fight (didn’t he defeat two other gods?). Then even after being locked away in the Realm of Torment, Abbadon was able to gain much influence and make a worthy attempt at escaping (and seeking revenge).

heh he had a library in the realm of torment that had the name of every person who he had a hand in killing(even if he told one of his maronites to kill there name would be there aswell) and how that person was killed

pretty sure hes a bad dude

but a counter point to that is that i think he was just trying to prepare the races for the eldar dragons (he was just one of those mean heavy handed teachers that thought death is a good leason)

He was obviously bad when we encountered him, yes. The question is rather he was always that way of just pushed into it. There’s too many unknowns about… well, just about every portion of his story for us to say. As Konig mentions, we have conflicting reports as to the nature of the conflict between him and the other gods, let alone whose fault it was. We don’t know conclusively rather the Realm of Torment was originally Abaddon’s realm or just the place he was imprisoned (the former is implied in the gw.dat, but that’s not considered canon, and to my knowledge it isn’t brought up elsewhere). We don’t know if Abaddon twisted the Realm, or if the Realm twisted him, or if they fed off each other. We don’t know how much of what his agents did was actually his bidding and how much was misguided zeal (both in the year of the Exodus and in the events leading up to and encompassing Nightfall).

Most importantly, in my opinion, we don’t have any confirmed canon knowledge of just why he was invested in the gift of magic. (According to the most recent word we’ve had on the topic, a forum post by Angel McCoy, the gift was made by all the gods, not just Abaddon. Whether the earlier lore of him adding a unique touch to what different races had access to, I don’t know/remember.) The theory that he knew about the Elder Dragons and was acting to oppose their rising is, at the moment, unsupported conjecture, and one with a serious hole in it: Why would releasing the dragon’s food source, to our knowledge the only cause of their awakening, be considered a way to oppose them?

saventis.1485:

heh he had a library in the realm of torment that had the name of every person who he had a hand in killing(even if he told one of his maronites to kill there name would be there aswell) and how that person was killed

pretty sure hes a bad dude

but a counter point to that is that i think he was just trying to prepare the races for the eldar dragons (he was just one of those mean heavy handed teachers that thought death is a good leason)

For all we know, pre-fall, that was the name of those who died in the war, and those who died from his attempts to break free in events like the Jade Wind and Cataclysm.

Those alone would make super-long lists.

But the line is those killed in his name. Meaning that it Abaddon would react with a “wait, why did you do that?” upon hearing about the death. E.g., some deaths could be done by overzealousness rather than Abaddon’s order/intention/rules.

However, I should note, that what you talk about came from the gw.dat. Like Arachnia, it’s place in canon lore is unconfirmed.

For those who don’t know:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Atrocity_Library

The library exists in-game, but the description doesn’t.

Surbrus.6942:

Prometheus simply could not put up a fight against Zeus and the rest of the gods, and he was imprisoned in Tartarus (analog to GW’s Realm of Torment) where he was tortured for the rest of eternity.

Well he was eventually freed by Hercules and you know apparently he and Zeus got over their differences. Abaddon however was unquestionably evil at the end. I’d much rather liken him to Loki… although Loki was unquestionably evil from the start. Further similarities include Nightfall being the product of Abaddon trying to escape and Ragnarok somewhat tied to Loki’s escape (although it’s highly likely that the story of Loki was influenced by that of Prometheus given that most Norse legends were only captured in the 12th century well into the Christianisation of Europe).

Loki wasn’t really unquestionably evil from the start if you’re looking at norse mythology and not adaptations. Loki was a trickster who was playing a bit of a balancing act between acting how he wanted (trickster, known to do dirty deeds) and trying to get in better view of his father and half-brother (Odin and Thorn respectively).

Adaptations almost always paint him as always being evil who simply pretended to be good. But the original mythos had him more as being uncertain which side of the coin to fall on, as he was half-god and half-jotun.

A lot of the mythos that were written out at the time that Norse myths were, were indeed altered by the monks, but not really by Greek/Roman stories – rather, by Christian beliefs.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Loki was a trickster who was playing a bit of a balancing act between acting how he wanted (trickster, known to do dirty deeds) and trying to get in better view of his father and half-brother (Odin and Thorn respectively).

When he orchestrated Baldur’s murder (and then subsequently prevented his resurrection), then went on to a party where he bragged about it and subsequently insulted the entire pantheon… well I don’t think trickster is a good word to describe him, of course I also suspect that vikings might have had a slightly darker sense of humor.

Thor wasn’t Loki’s half-brother nor was Odin ever Loki’s father.

Loki and Odin mixed blood together and thus hold a blood bond.

Loki is full Jotun yet classed among the Æsir due to his blood mixing with Odin.

@CureForLiving: Loki’s described as a trickster more for his earlier doings. When he did what you speak of, he was then imprisoned – that was more or less the ‘last straw’.

@Mickey: Different translations and texts refer to Loki’s relation to the gods differently. The ones I have seen most commonly refer to Loki as Thor’s half-brother via Odin, with his mother being a jotun. I do recall that Loki being full-jotun in some translations/texts, but I go by what I see most commonly due to how norse mythos was changed when transcribed by Christian monks.

On a quick search on wikipedia: “In Norse mythology, Loki (/?lo?ki/), Loptr, or Hveðrungr is a god or jötunn (or both).” And: “Loki’s relation with the gods varies by source.”

Remember, it was Abaddon, God of Knowledge, that gave humans the power of magic to make them stronger. I believe that Abaddon was a just god that cared about his people, and he thought magic was the way to empower and protect them. The other gods disagreed, and the rest is Nightfall. This is the one reason I particularly like Abaddon as a character, he’s not just an evil villain. Because he had seemingly good intentions, anyone could imagine them doing similar actions. Of course, his punishment drove him into madness and fuel his quest for revenge. Not too unlike Dhuum.

Surbrus.6942:

I’ve always gotten a rather Prometheus vibe coming from Abbadon. It almost seemed like a “what if Prometheus was the strongest god?” scenario.

Prometheus from Greek mythology was Titan (gods from before the Greek pantheon of Zeus et al). Prometheus gifted Fire to humans (giving us our creativity/ingenuity/etc), and this mad Zeus very angry. Prometheus simply could not put up a fight against Zeus and the rest of the gods, and he was imprisoned in Tartarus (analog to GW’s Realm of Torment) where he was tortured for the rest of eternity.

Abbadon gave humans (and other races?) magic, which the other gods did not like. Whereas Prometheus was easily subdued and locked away to be tortured for eternity, Abbadon was able to put up a very good fight (didn’t he defeat two other gods?). Then even after being locked away in the Realm of Torment, Abbadon was able to gain much influence and make a worthy attempt at escaping (and seeking revenge).

Pretty much my thoughts right there, Prometheus and Abaddon sharing similar origins. Abaddon was the keeper of secrets (knowledge) and of course gave humanity the gift of magic which it then used to ravage the world of Tyria via the Guild Wars at which point the Gods became worried by request. Abaddon was offended because in his eyes, what man does with the gift of magic isn’t a concern but all should be allowed to pursue it.

There is also, as previously stated, the attempted genocide of the Margonites by the Forgotten and Abaddon could easily be argued for trying to save his people. An attack on them was likely seen as an attack directly on himself, they were his foundation for his path to his own personal glory.

Personally I saw him as exactly that, a tragic villain who had a mean streak. What followed lead him to be the monstrosity that lead to many catastrophes across Tyria (planet).

CureForLiving.5360:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Loki was a trickster who was playing a bit of a balancing act between acting how he wanted (trickster, known to do dirty deeds) and trying to get in better view of his father and half-brother (Odin and Thorn respectively).

When he orchestrated Baldur’s murder (and then subsequently prevented his resurrection), then went on to a party where he bragged about it and subsequently insulted the entire pantheon… well I don’t think trickster is a good word to describe him, of course I also suspect that vikings might have had a slightly darker sense of humor.

Oh the irony. Hours ago friends and myself were talking about theologies and Norse was kind of the topic I touched up on. The problem is the translation becomes garbled due to how convoluted it became, we don’t really know for certain the exact details because most information recovered of Norse is incomplete due to the Christian occupation – which reverted the narrative of the tales. You have maybe three if not more different translations and nobody knows which is more correct.

He was good, he was giving away free magic!!