Guild Wars 2

I understand she made a choice only a human could make, yadayadayada, but what exactly did she do as a god anyways? I honestly don’t see why anyone would worship her.

It is said the gods went silent after the fall of Abaddon.

So let me get this straight.. She did nothing as a human, and did nothing as a god.

darkace.8925:

The same thing she did as a mortal…nothing.

My guess is "Found out about the Elder Dragons (Which Abaddon knew about due to being the God of, well, SECRETS), told the other gods, and they all decided “Oh crap, this is too much, let’s get outta here” and they all booked it."

Kormir did gain all the knowledge of Abaddon, I’m guessing he had knowledge on something of even greater concern then the Elder Dragons, and my guess would be whatever drove the gods and humans to Tyria in the first place.

“Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember.”

The first day of Kormir’s godhood, after all the new powers and knowledge got settled of course, was probably relaying to the other gods some of the secrets Abaddon kept, and for them to plan for the future with the new knowledge.

Kormir as a human – Was partly responsible for unleashing Nightfall ( the return of Abbadon) upon Elona. She organized the sun spear excavation of some of the ruins containing relics of the forgotten god. Afterwards she kinda helped the island of Istan stave off invasion, then got captured. Stayed captured for a while and then got her eyes stolen by one of Abbadons minions. Later she was sucked down into the realm of Torment due to being “touched” by Abbadon. She was later re-rescued and then was toted along like a stack of talking potatoes to the final battle with Abbadon where she became a Goddess by absorbing the dieing gods power.

As a Goddess – Kormir lorded over the Realm of Torment but had to enlist help to deal with the remaining Servants of Abbadon in the Domain of Anguish Via the Order of Whispers, Allowing for the player characters to stop the final major threats while ultimately… doing nothing herself.

So all in all.. I’m with you, I can’t see why anyone worships her aside from the possibility that people have made up stories about her or the fact that she ascended to God-hood from mortality (something that a lot of people, I’m sure, wish they could do.)

Erukk.1408:

Kormir did gain all the knowledge of Abaddon, I’m guessing he had knowledge on something of even greater concern then the Elder Dragons, and my guess would be whatever drove the gods and humans to Tyria in the first place.

“Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember.”

The first day of Kormir’s godhood, after all the new powers and knowledge got settled of course, was probably relaying to the other gods some of the secrets Abaddon kept, and for them to plan for the future with the new knowledge.

And since I am here.. The gods left Tyria long ago Due to Abbadons treachery and the War that He and his followers instigated. After striking him down, The gods left and so began the Exodus which is where the Tyrian years get their Abbreviation of A.E.

There’s no other pressing matter and no relation to the elder dragons that caused them to take their absence.

Swish.2463:

Erukk.1408:

Kormir did gain all the knowledge of Abaddon, I’m guessing he had knowledge on something of even greater concern then the Elder Dragons, and my guess would be whatever drove the gods and humans to Tyria in the first place.

“Among them was Abaddon—once secret-keeper, now betrayer. How you have fallen from the glorious days of old. What passed beyond in the Mists, only you remember.”

The first day of Kormir’s godhood, after all the new powers and knowledge got settled of course, was probably relaying to the other gods some of the secrets Abaddon kept, and for them to plan for the future with the new knowledge.

And since I am here.. The gods left Tyria long ago Due to Abbadons treachery and the War that He and his followers instigated. After striking him down, The gods left and so began the Exodus which is where the Tyrian years get their Abbreviation of A.E.

There’s no other pressing matter and no relation to the elder dragons that caused them to take their absence.

I wasn’t really talking about it being the cause of their absence. I’m simply speculating that Kormir might have the knowledge of what caused the gods and humans to come to Tyria in the first place, and she might have relayed that info to the other gods. It’s hard to tell, since Lyssa’s scroll in the Orrian History Scrolls is kind of ambiguous on that part…

“The two who are one, Issa and Lys,[sic] brought with her the hope and beauty of humanity. While the other gods focused on building Arah and beginning a new future, Lyssa gave them joy and helped them forget the past.”

That could be taken a lot of ways: either she helped the humans forgot, she helped the gods forgot… or both. Abaddon retained that knowledge, and Kormir gained it when she took his mantle of god of knowledge/secrets.

History probably gives Kormir more credit than most players do… and IMO, this is probably deserved. When you look at the historical record, Kormir is almost certainly overstating her responsibility for starting Nightfall – Abaddon’s servants had been out in the world preparing for it for roughly two centuries before her indiscretion in the ruins, so at most she sped things up a little. She was then the person who organised a credible resistance to Varesh, even if the first stage went poorly – and then, after being sucked in the Realm of Torment, she not only maintained her sanity there but also managed to rally other spirits that had found themselves in Torment in order to discover the means necessary to defeat Abaddon in his own realm. While her blindness meant that she was unable to fight in person, it was her direction – and the reconnaissance provided by the spirits she rallied – that allowed the PCs to penetrate to the heart of Abaddon’s realm to bring him down rather than simply being another handful of soldiers in the the war of attrition the Forgotten had been losing for centuries.

Possibly more significantly, the silence of the gods, while foreshadowed in Nightfall, did not set in immediately, allowing for Kormir to have granted some prayers in the meantime (albeit not to our PCs, since we only encountered one functional statue of Kormir and that’s purely for Domain of Anguish access). This would have allowed people to get a feel for what responsibilities she adopted from Abaddon and which were assumed by Lyssa instead. Even during the Silence, as well, we see that heroes can pray to Kormir for a minor but noticeable benefit, and from the point of view of the rest of humanity, it’s possible that they still feel that Kormir is still bestowing the gifts of her domains upon humanity – she’s just not being as overt about it as the gods might have been in the past.

What has she done?

She ascended, then turned around and started getting the Domain of Anguish sorted out through mortal hands. She’s probably been very busy cleaning up the mess Abaddon left behind, but we won’t really know since the Six Gods kind of stopped talking directly to humans.

Before you say it, they may still communicate but through intermediaries. The Seventh Reaper is not Grenth

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

we won’t really know since the Six Gods kind of stopped talking directly to humans.

Before you say it, they may still communicate but through intermediaries. The Seventh Reaper is not Grenth

Technically, they always talked through intermediaries, even while living on Tyria (the whole “looking at us blinds people” thing). The silence of the Six Gods is that even those stopped. The Seventh Reaper is the first contact with any such intermediary since Nightfall, storyline wise. As said in the mission – no one has been able to summon a reaper in human generations.

Well we know that right after taking the job she and the Forgotten set to straightening out Torment and turning it into The Redeemed Realm, which I imagine was no easy task. I mean you saw the place right? It was a kitten mess…gribbly bits and dead bug-gods all over the place.

Do we REALLY need another post for Kormir bashing?

REALLY?

@Alpharius: All mention of the “Redeemed Realm” comes from the gw.dat and, as such, isn’t canon lore. There’s at least two references to the Realm of Torment in GW2’s timeframe (both by charr, mind you – once in Edge of Destiny, another time in the charr Iron Legion storyline by Smodur).

@FIsh: No, but it was made. sigh

Are we really bashing Kormir, when Grenth or Balthazar didn’t even aid us in, you know, staving off invasions to their realms?!!?!?

I think each of the tasks we had to perform in The Realm of Torment, The Underworld, and Fissure of Woe were really minor tasks compared to whatever scope the gods have to deal with. For all we know Kormir could’ve been reversing the effects of Nightfall as we helped cleanse her realm. Balthazar could be fighting Menzies in an eternal battle while we hold his fortress, who knows? Kormir took on the responsibilities annd duties of a GOD, like Grenth did. I’m glad we didn’t get that responsibility because we would’ve probably ended up like Abaddon

Fish.1657:

Do we REALLY need another post for Kormir bashing?

REALLY?

What do you mean? The OP asked a legitimate question and in the form of a question as allowed by the forum system.

Edit: Kormir sucks :P

She inspires in others that they can do nothing and still become a god as long as you have a bunch of stupid heroes to do the work for you.
Her followers hopes to one day reap the benefits of other people’s work.

FateOmega.9601:

She inspires in others that they can do nothing and still become a god as long as you have a bunch of stupid heroes to do the work for you.
Her followers hopes to one day reap the benefits of other people’s work.

Totally true. I mean, my ranger in GW1 didn’t do anything and he reaped all the benefits of doing nothing and getting credit for:

- Defeating the Lich and closing the Door of Komalie.
- Destroying the titans left otherwise unchecked across Tyria.
- Beating the corruption out of Kuunvang the dragon of Cantha.
- Defeating Shiro while Mhenlo had a little nap.
- Leading the Sunspears back together so they could regroup after a rout.
- Getting Koss and Melonni to recognize they had some feelings for each other.
- Defeating Mallyx, the last great follower of Abaddon left behind.
- Helping Pyre Fierceshot start his rebellion, which eventually leads to the full destruction of Ascalon.
- Ensuring the safety and success of the G.O.L.E.M. project.
- Leading a strike at the Great Destroyer below the Central Transfer Chamber and putting an end to it.
- Standing against the last vestiges of the White Mantle in Lion’s Arch and ensuring Queen Salma had a throne to claim.

And all my ranger had to do was stand there and do nothing.

Everyone’s missing the obvious answer – the Kormir monastery in Queensdale produces beer. Both of the traditional variety and all sorts of experimental brews. They’re basically Tyria’s first craft/micro-brewery. Why would you not worship her?

In seriousness, I will never understand the Kormir hate. People complained about Rurik always getting himself killed, so they made Kormir as an NPC not participate in the fighting – and then people complain about her ‘doing nothing’ and becoming a god.

Additionally, a lot of what she does is behind the scenes, particularly in the Realm of Torment – as draxynnic noted, her direction, planning, and leadership of the lost souls there were critical in assaulting Abaddon’s realm.

Beyond that, like it or not, she is one of the Six and the Goddess of Truth and Knowledge. Any who value those attributes (scholars and members of the Priory come to mind) would naturally pray to Kormir for enlightenment and clarity of mind. I for one choose Kormir at character creation as I see my character as a seeker of truth and historical knowledge, and Kormir’s domains fit perfectly with that.

Caledore.6271:

In seriousness, I will never understand the Kormir hate. People complained about Rurik always getting himself killed, so they made Kormir as an NPC not participate in the fighting – and then people complain about her ‘doing nothing’ and becoming a god.

It zig-zagged. See, in Prophecies you had to do all the work protecting the NPCs who would often just “Leeeeeeroy!” into groups of mobs and get spiked down. see “Prince Rurik tries Nolani Academy solo run”.

Then in Factions, you had NPC allies who you could monitor in your party screen and were actually useful. However, there were mild complaints about being just the escorts.

Nightfall, they decide to make those NPCs untargetable or otherwise unable to be messed with so you don’t fail because they’re spiked down. If you had to escort them, they got bars and were targets. Otherwise you had heroes with you instead of “nobody NPCs”.

Eye of the North, you had auto-reviving allies who weren’t overly powerful nor overly squishy. In other words, your allies pulled their weight and were active. Which is probably why they’re remembered more fondly aside from getting good development. (Except Gwen. Strangely, it’s also chic to hate on her.)

I for one choose Kormir at character creation as I see my character as a seeker of truth and historical knowledge, and Kormir’s domains fit perfectly with that.

I chose her basically because my main is a descendant from my GW1 character and thus there’s a special connection there

Basically, though, we don’t know what Kormir has been doing in the 250 years since Nightfall ended? Same as any of the other gods, for the most part, but still.

shrug Kormir represents the aspects I find most appealing myself, so I usually pick her during character creation as well.

I would note that – as a previous poster did – her part in causing Nightfall was far, far smaller than her part in cleaning it up. The player’s part was much, much larger, or did anyone forget that? The Way To Go, Serge rule applies heavily throughout the Nightfall campaign; Kormir actually spent a good chunk of that campaign cleaning up messes the PLAYERS made.

I admit, having to go pin Dhuum back down in the Underworld seems major enough that you’d think Grenth might have intervened a bit more directly than “if you give me a huge donation I will give you permission to go get your kitten kicked so I don’t have to.”

The Fissure of Woe was more… low level, I suppose? Doing FoW I never had the sense of “the world will end if this doesn’t get fixed” that I did doing the Underworld. I can understand Balthazar letting us handle that. After all, it is possible to solo FoW – I know, having done it – but the Underworld is completely impossible to solo. Even if you can somehow acrobatically defeat all the lesser content – which I flatly don’t believe – good luck not getting killed in maybe 4 seconds when Dhuum shows up.

Kormir cleansing the entire Realm of Torment? Granted it’s not canonical that she FINISHED by the end of GW1’s content, but she straight-out says that it’s her intent, so I’m not all traumatized and kitten by the notion that most of her time has been spent on that for the last 250 years.

I don’t clearly remember instances of the player character speeding along Nightfall… there might be something though. On the other hand, I do clearly remember the Palawa Joko Incident, which had effects on Elona that were even larger in scope and far longer-lasting.

Caledore.6271:

Everyone’s missing the obvious answer – the Kormir monastery in Queensdale produces beer. Both of the traditional variety and all sorts of experimental brews. They’re basically Tyria’s first craft/micro-brewery. Why would you not worship her?

In seriousness, I will never understand the Kormir hate. People complained about Rurik always getting himself killed, so they made Kormir as an NPC not participate in the fighting – and then people complain about her ‘doing nothing’ and becoming a god.

Additionally, a lot of what she does is behind the scenes, particularly in the Realm of Torment – as draxynnic noted, her direction, planning, and leadership of the lost souls there were critical in assaulting Abaddon’s realm.

Beyond that, like it or not, she is one of the Six and the Goddess of Truth and Knowledge. Any who value those attributes (scholars and members of the Priory come to mind) would naturally pray to Kormir for enlightenment and clarity of mind. I for one choose Kormir at character creation as I see my character as a seeker of truth and historical knowledge, and Kormir’s domains fit perfectly with that.

This brings up an important question… How does a god of order, law, knowledge, truth, and spirit become associated with booze? I guess the more you drink the more your inclined to tell the truth.

catqeer.1954:

This brings up an important question… How does a god of order, law, knowledge, truth, and spirit become associated with booze? I guess the more you drink the more your inclined to tell the truth.

Au contraire, good sir. You need to drink in order to liken her as a God in the first place.

catqeer.1954:

Caledore.6271:

Everyone’s missing the obvious answer – the Kormir monastery in Queensdale produces beer. Both of the traditional variety and all sorts of experimental brews. They’re basically Tyria’s first craft/micro-brewery. Why would you not worship her?

In seriousness, I will never understand the Kormir hate. People complained about Rurik always getting himself killed, so they made Kormir as an NPC not participate in the fighting – and then people complain about her ‘doing nothing’ and becoming a god.

Additionally, a lot of what she does is behind the scenes, particularly in the Realm of Torment – as draxynnic noted, her direction, planning, and leadership of the lost souls there were critical in assaulting Abaddon’s realm.

Beyond that, like it or not, she is one of the Six and the Goddess of Truth and Knowledge. Any who value those attributes (scholars and members of the Priory come to mind) would naturally pray to Kormir for enlightenment and clarity of mind. I for one choose Kormir at character creation as I see my character as a seeker of truth and historical knowledge, and Kormir’s domains fit perfectly with that.

This brings up an important question… How does a god of order, law, knowledge, truth, and spirit become associated with booze? I guess the more you drink the more your inclined to tell the truth.

Sit down and read about how beer actually came to be known associated with monasteries in old Europe. It’s fascinating to hear, and while I have heard it a lot the details have fled my mind.

Suffice it to say, in a place where you need a water treatment plant to water crops properly? Or to have potable drinking water . . . seeing monks brewing ale is something I would expect to find. Why?

It’s safer than drinking the water.

Edit: Here’s a link. Beware some details have “Citation Needed” but they’re rather bold claims about “everyday life” which possibly might be hard to swallow.

Reading the history of a certain type of beer, one group of monks created their beer to have something to be able to eat instead of bread and water. They decided that beer was created from pieces of both, so it was technically legal.

Narcemus.1348:

Reading the history of a certain type of beer, one group of monks created their beer to have something to be able to eat instead of bread and water. They decided that beer was created from pieces of both, so it was technically legal.

I also heard another story that the monks presented it as an alternative to sacramental wine to a representative from the Vatican. He decided the stuff was so foul it would be a fitting penance to drink it.

Anyway, point remains that in the real world beer and monasteries were connected too

Gregorius.1024:

Are we really bashing Kormir, when Grenth or Balthazar didn’t even aid us in, you know, staving off invasions to their realms?!!?!?

I think each of the tasks we had to perform in The Realm of Torment, The Underworld, and Fissure of Woe were really minor tasks compared to whatever scope the gods have to deal with. For all we know Kormir could’ve been reversing the effects of Nightfall as we helped cleanse her realm. Balthazar could be fighting Menzies in an eternal battle while we hold his fortress, who knows? Kormir took on the responsibilities annd duties of a GOD, like Grenth did. I’m glad we didn’t get that responsibility because we would’ve probably ended up like Abaddon

We would have done a much better job at being a god than any of the normal gods. We would find an exploit to use in our favor or a build to counteract whatever challenges are set before us. We mortal players are capable of doing more than the gods ever could.

Chessrook.8643:

darkace.8925:

The same thing she did as a mortal…nothing.

My guess is "Found out about the Elder Dragons (Which Abaddon knew about due to being the God of, well, SECRETS), told the other gods, and they all decided “Oh crap, this is too much, let’s get outta here” and they all booked it."

None of them knew about the dragons, not even Abbadon :P they all left because of the war between abbadon and the others gods, they caused too much damage

pandas.9450:

None of them knew about the dragons, not even Abbadon :P they all left because of the war between abbadon and the others gods, they caused too much damage

The gods probably did know about the Elder Dragons, since the Forgotten, one of the ancient races that fought them before, were devoted servants of the 6 gods. I would think that they would relay information dealing with gigantic creatures that might try to devour them, because they might find them magically delicious.

Henge.3907:

Gregorius.1024:

Are we really bashing Kormir, when Grenth or Balthazar didn’t even aid us in, you know, staving off invasions to their realms?!!?!?

I think each of the tasks we had to perform in The Realm of Torment, The Underworld, and Fissure of Woe were really minor tasks compared to whatever scope the gods have to deal with. For all we know Kormir could’ve been reversing the effects of Nightfall as we helped cleanse her realm. Balthazar could be fighting Menzies in an eternal battle while we hold his fortress, who knows? Kormir took on the responsibilities annd duties of a GOD, like Grenth did. I’m glad we didn’t get that responsibility because we would’ve probably ended up like Abaddon

We would have done a much better job at being a god than any of the normal gods. We would find an exploit to use in our favor or a build to counteract whatever challenges are set before us. We mortal players are capable of doing more than the gods ever could.

It’s not as simple as pointing in a direction and destroying everything that stands in your way. As a god you have to govern all aspects of your godhood. If you were Lyssa for example, you’d have to govern chaos, beauty, illusion, etc. But how does one go about that? That would probably constitute giving the play psuedo-omniscience in order to understand what you’re governing.

What I mean when I say we’d probably end up like Abaddon, is that he gave magic away too freely, not seeing (or caring) what the consequences were. Our characters, while awesome don’t have the scope to govern reality

kitten kormir

Erukk.1408:

pandas.9450:

None of them knew about the dragons, not even Abbadon :P they all left because of the war between abbadon and the others gods, they caused too much damage

The gods probably did know about the Elder Dragons, since the Forgotten, one of the ancient races that fought them before, were devoted servants of the 6 gods. I would think that they would relay information dealing with gigantic creatures that might try to devour them, because they might find them magically delicious.

I seriously doubt they never talked about the dragons with Glint, the forgotten, the mursaat, the seers, the dwarfs, or the jotun.

All that we know that the gods DIDN’T know so far is that they DIDN’T know that Zhaitan was under Orr. From what we can tell even the Forgotten may not have known that because that was an area used by the Forgotten, at the very least in order to free Glint. When Glint hid the races I would guess that they stayed hidden until a few years after they were certain that the ED’s were asleep, just to be safe. Heck it may have taken a generation or two before they started venturing back out into the world, which means the dragons could have been well good and hidden away in their sleep before the world began to creep with life again, making their whereabouts an unknown. But I am pretty sure that the gods did, at some point in time, learn about the Elder Dragons. I mean they had the Forgotten and they even had dwarven followers. It wouldn’t make sense that the races kept that kind of information from the gods.

I suppose everyone have already seen this video, but I’ll link it again for kitten and giggles.

Erukk.1408:

pandas.9450:

None of them knew about the dragons, not even Abbadon :P they all left because of the war between abbadon and the others gods, they caused too much damage

The gods probably did know about the Elder Dragons, since the Forgotten, one of the ancient races that fought them before, were devoted servants of the 6 gods. I would think that they would relay information dealing with gigantic creatures that might try to devour them, because they might find them magically delicious.

Well, guessing they were not the smartest bunch of gods

dot dot dot

The Elder Dragons were written into the GW2 storyline starting with Eye of the North.

So it’s true that the gods didn’t know about ED’s…because they didn’t exist before then.

Obsidian.1328:

dot dot dot

The Elder Dragons were written into the GW2 storyline starting with Eye of the North.

So it’s true that the gods didn’t know about ED’s…because they didn’t exist before then.

Is there not in-game lore that implies the fall of the Juton society is due to a past rising of the Elder Dragons?

pandas.9450:

Well, guessing they were not the smartest bunch of gods

No, there’s not really a whole lot to point to them being infallible or incredibly intelligent. Pantheons rarely do have gods which are always all-powerful, all-knowing, et cetera. They generally tend to fall into “imperfect” at best, or “tantrum-throwing little kids with cosmic powers” at worst.

There was no Jotun society in GW1, they were just a bunch of brutes running around. We didn’t learn about their past until GW2. Obsidian seems to refuse to integrate GW1 and GW2 lore together because he prefers the prior game, so he decides to make it a “lore” point that the games history somehow correlates with the history of the game writers. A.K.A. the gods didn’t know about the dragons because the dragons didn’t exist until we got new writers.

darkace.8925:

Is there not in-game lore that implies the fall of the Juton society is due to a past rising of the Elder Dragons?

The fall of jotun society is due to civil wars and in-fighting.

Whether this happened before or after or even during a previous last ED rise is unknown. We just know they were around for the last ED rise – and possibly more, since they studied the cycle of risings.

Didn’t the civil wars happen after magic was taken from them? If that magic being taken from them is due to the gods seperating the bloodstone so no one could use it all at the same time then it would put their fall after the the ED’s rise and fall and into human history.

That’s the claim made by Thruln the Lost, but everything Thruln says should be taken with a grain of salt. The elder thruln in the personal story (who is the spirit of a storyteller who lived at the time the fall started) doesn’t mention loss of magic as part of the reason, and puts the blame squarely on giant-kings competing for dominance.

Furthermore, since their arrival, the gods increased the strength of magic – first they unlocked the bloodstone that the Seers had created to contain magic, then the broke it into schools. There was only a year or so between events, so jotun society wouldn’t have had enough time to become based in that magic. It’s plausible that in that year the giant-kings became so addicted to that power that they were willing to do anything that they thought might bring it back… but it seems more likely to me that if loss of magic was a factor in the collapse, it was when the Seers sealed magic in the first place.

Actually, the claim is that the civil wars happened after a threat to take away magic. Then the civil wars happened then magic was taken (during?).

Also, Elder Thruln is not only a storyteller, but the last of the Giant-Kings – according to the blog post, at least.

Narc

Fair take on my posts I suppose. Although it’s not so much that I prefer the first game as it is I prefer good story and responsible continuity. There’s a lot of things I like about GW2, but the lore obviously isn’t one of them though. And for good reason…it was very poorly executed. I can confidently say I’m in the majority on this one. Besides, it’s a fans job to criticize a narrative that tries so hard to make you forget the game so many of us enjoyed and were inspired by.

No one should expect things to stay static when hiring new writers. But you should expect said writers to respect the foundations that they are building on, and not tear them down to build new ones. Like my signature states, I only make the posts I do because I both want new players to realize certain truths, as well as remind ANet why GW1 had such a loyal following. They said they used the best aspects of Guild Wars when making this game, I see very few examples of that. And almost none when it comes to story.

I do not disagree fully, but whatever may happen I do not think you can ignore the new lore to this game and continue to post on this forum. Whether or not it was “properly done” is irrelevant. It is the GW2 lore now, and I personally believe that any changes made to the current world make sense in the situation they created. We can never expect that what we hear from historical texts are fully true. I remember a quote from somewhere, I think Assassin’s Creed, “The winners write the history”. There will always be inaccuracies, and in times similar to GW2 (thinking renaissance era) there were many large ones. It is not unexpected that in a world like Tyria, with many distrusting races, that bits and pieces of racial histories could be brought together to make a more honest truth about the world around us. I understand that I am not going to make you fully agree with this, but the situation is how it is. Stories will always evolve or die.

Good grief Narc, really?? You’re acting like GW1 was some ancient culture that an Asuran dug up in Orr. It’s a legitimate game with a legitimate story. And since whatever narrative it presented to us then was never meant to be taken as legend or myth, it’s story is valid.

It’s eternally amusing to me how players here try to justify taking GW1 lore as bogus by saying either one of two things:
1) New lore trumps old lore. Period. End of discussion.
2) Injecting real-life historical constructs like “the winners write history” to legitimize a certain point of view. That line of thinking doesn’t make sense in a fictional work like this. The giant difference being the “writers” of the game were not actually in the game world…it was a couple of awesome nerds in front of a pc.

Stories will always evolve or die?? I have no idea where you get this. History changes, stories and myths not so much. That’s what these games are, not actual events that are dependent on point of view or interpretation. There’s a 2,000 year-old story about a dude from Nazareth that hasn’t changed at all. Last I checked it was still pretty popular.

And yet most people in the Western world now believe that the world was formed four and a half billion years ago and that life has steadily evolved since (albeit with the most spectacular forms mostly in the last half-billion), rather than the entire world and all its species having been created within a span of 144 hours sometime around 4500BC (as was the common belief around two and a half centuries ago before people figured out those big bones that were found occasionally were not in fact those of giants or dragons, but of extinct animals that bore little resemblance to anything known before).

Why?

Because new information was found that showed the old myths could not be the whole story.

I know we’re used to fantasy settings where every legend is the literal truth, but Tyria is a bit more realistic than that. There were flaws in the theory that the world was created by the gods even back in Prophecies.

Oh for christ’s sake…

It’s a fantasy game!!! It’s not supposed to adhere to all the laws of physics and biology and whatever else. Why does everyone keep using real life scenarios as analogous evidence? That’s ludicrous.

Guild Wars is a make-believe world that we, as players, let ourselves be immersed in to participate in and experience that world. There is nothing in those first three games that leads us all to think what we were experiencing and seeing was all legendary hogwash. It’s fake for us as real people, but real for us as players…get it?

Just because another game comes along and makes the claim that all that first stuff was a bunch of malarky, doesn’t make it so.