Guild Wars 2

Konig Des Todes.2086:

That is like presuming that centaurs are immune to corruption because we see no corrupted centaurs. Or largos. Or jotun. Or grawl. Or wurms. Or bats.

You get my point, I hope.

But I don’t agree with your point. I’m not sure if centaurs have been in contact with Jormag’s influence much at all, and I don’t see any use in corrupted bats. And as far as the Jotun are concerned, many of them have fled. Also, there is a corrupted Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest. Not by Jormag, but corrupted none the less.

The female Norn are a different matter though. We are told explicitly that their fate after facing Jormag, is unknown. That is a clear hint that more is going on. Now you could spin that any way you wish, but it is not on equal footing with a lack of corrupted centaurs, jotun, wurms or bats. Unlike centaurs, we know that all Norn have been in direct conflict with Jormag on a very frequent basis. So the fact that we haven’t seen any of them turned to Icebrood, and the fact that this absence is emphasized in the lore, is a clear indication that there might be more to this than meets the eye. It validates investigation. You of all people should recognize a lore mystery when you see one.

dunnberry.2964:

Just saying there are some corrupted largos, there’s either a vet or champ one in frost gore at the end of the guild rush quaggas one in the water! And the jungle wurm I think is corrupted by something(mordemeth maybe?)

afaik, and according to the wiki, that largos is just this guy who spawns a nearby random-timed event. He’s not corrupted.

Furthermore, the jungle wurm being corrupted is 100% speculation by players.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But I don’t agree with your point. I’m not sure if centaurs have been in contact with Jormag’s influence much at all, and I don’t see any use in corrupted bats. And as far as the Jotun are concerned, many of them have fled. Also, there is a corrupted Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest. Not by Jormag, but corrupted none the less.

Centaurs are in contact with the risen, at least in one personal storyline; the modniir are also pretty close to Jormag’s realm of influence. There are jotun and grawl who worship Jormag. Jungle wurm is as said still speculation. Elder Dragons corrupt all things – why would bats be exempt?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

The female Norn are a different matter though. We are told explicitly that their fate after facing Jormag, is unknown.

And by observation, we can explicitly see that the fate of jotun and grawl – at the very least – is unknown in regards to corruption. They outright worship Jormag the same way the Sons of Svanir do, yet we see no Icebrood Grawl or Icebrood Jotun.

To believe that the female norn are immune to corruption simply because we don’t see them is foolhardy.

I do not disagree on you saying “That is a clear hint that more is going on.” but to believe them immune is ill-advised given the lack of information. And I’m sorry, but it is on equal footing with the lack of other creatures being corrupted – by any Elder Dragon who’s influence is nearby those said creatures.

However, in most cases we can blame it on the designers not creating an Icebrood Wurm model, or a Branded Wurm model. This is different, but still does not merit drawing the conclusion that female norn are, for some mysteriously unknown reason, immune to Jormag’s influence. Because Jora was most certainly not immune, just resistant. There’s a fine difference between the two, and you seem to blur the line between them.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You of all people should recognize a lore mystery when you see one.

You utterly missed my point entirely. You’re drawing a baseless conclusion only on the notion that something is never seen – your conclusion being effectively summarized as “what’s not seen, doesn’t exist” and I was saying that conclusion shouldn’t be reached based on what immensely little we have on the notion.

You only seem to take into consideration two points: “Jora was not turned into an icebrood” (a skewed view of the truth at that); and “no one has seen an icebrood norn.” What you ignore utterly is: “Jora resisted but was not immune to Jormag’s influence;” “female norn can be corrupted by Zhaitan, utterly;” “we have not seen all of Jormag’s forces, territories, abilities, or capabilities;” and most importantly “Elder Dragons corrupt similarly, but with different methodologies, meaning what one dragon can corrupt, another should be capable of – regardless of whether it does or chooses to.”

You theorize that female norn are, for some unknown mysterious unexplained and unhinted at reason, immune to Jormag’s influence, and only Jormag’s influence. But the problem is just how far fetched that is when looking at the whole picture. It’s a mystery for what happens to the female norn, but nothing – and I do mean nothing – except for the lack of conclusion points to immunity to corruption.

Maybe not immunity to corruption, but it is possible that they can’t be turned into Icebrood. I’m not stating it as a fact, I know there is no evidence to support it. But something odd is clearly going on. This is simply a hypothesis. And until we get more evidence, no conclusion can be reached.

It could also be that Jormag simply has different plans for Norn women, but as we explained earlier, the whole deal with the Tooth would give Jormag plenty of reason to be angry with male Norn as well. Frankly, I don’t see why the dragons should care if a Norn is male or female… unless they are different.

I agree though that we cannot conclude anything based on what little clues we have.

Well if its goal was as the two norn in Hoelbrak I mentioned before is what Jormag’s goal was – divide and conquer, effectively, to bring the norn race to extinction – then he would care if the norn is male or female, in order to separate them, reduce chances of procreation, and lower the number of norn. Norn alone have proven to be a threat to Jormag, so I can easily see him going at them with the mentality of “corrupt them or destroy them utterly, take no chances” and strengthening the Sons of Svanir’s misogyny would certainly serve that.

I requested this question specifically, but I wasn’t the only one.
We finally have an answer to this question in the latest issue of GuildMag:
http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

GuildMag (Ollannach): So we’ve also gone to Twitter and asked our followers to send us some questions. While we read through a few of them and chosen the ones that were most important. So… in Edge of Destiny it’s observed that men who go to fight Jormag’s minions and fail, return as icebroods but women don’t return at all. Is there anything more about what happens to women who fall under Jormag’s power?

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb): I don’t think they fall as much as they are killed.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee): Yeah, they die.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb): The Sons of Svanir just… the way that they worship Jormag has evolved is very chauvinist, very male chauvinist, in the fact that it is a very boys-only club, they don’t really get to reanimate. The women are just slain.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee): I think it’s less that Jormag won’t corrupt a woman and more that as they are being corrupted, the Sons of Svanir will just kill any woman who is caught being given Svanir’s gift.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb): Jormag doesn’t care. Jormag really does not care. It’s as if ants that are going off, the red ants and the black ants, that’s nice. But the Sons of Svanir…

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee): The Sons of Svanir have a cult, it’s a religious organisation.

ArenaNet (Jeff Grubb): It comes through that funnel, the Sons of Svanir are his mechanism in the world, so therefore their beliefs, and their prejudices, have that effect.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee): And so they kill the women.

ArenaNet (Ree Soesbee): I think it’s less that Jormag won’t corrupt a woman and more that as they are being corrupted, the Sons of Svanir will just kill any woman who is caught being given Svanir’s gift.

That’s a little disappointing.
I was hoping for something Joan of Arc or Valkyrie-esque. Something like, “They are just too tough to accept the Dragon’s corruption, so they go down fighting!” This is a race of giant warrior women after all!

I was hoping for that as well. You’d think that Jormag would not allow his male followers to decide which if his corrupted creations are allowed to live, but apparently he simply doesn’t care, and that’s a bit disappointing. It all sounded so mysterious.

I would have been greatly disappointed if it were just that the norn women were “too tough” – that really diminishes the whole aspects of the Elder Dragons even more.

I’d have preferred that Jormag just kept them up north to keep the Sons of Svanir fanatically ignorant.

there cant be NO corrupted women in that case, maybe there are just so few and far between that we just havent met them yet, when svanir become icebrood, they no longer have their own will so should stop attacking women because they’re women and only because they live

Getefix.9150:

there cant be NO corrupted women in that case, maybe there are just so few and far between that we just havent met them yet, when svanir become icebrood, they no longer have their own will so should stop attacking women because they’re women and only because they live

The problem however is that nothing stops the Sons of Svanir from killing corrupted Norn women anyway when they see them. And with the Sons of Svanir so deep in Jormag territory, they are probably the first to run into these corrupted Norn women. This does not exclude the possibility of running into a lone corrupted Norn lady at some point, but as the devs have pointed out, you probably won’t.

In my opinion Konig, I would have loved it for there so be some sort of mystical reason why Norn women could not be corrupted, OR (as others have suggested) for there to be a far darker fate for them. I imagined that Jormag was at least building an army, and had strong control over his followers. It’s a bit disappointing that apparently Jormag just lets the Sons of Svanir do what they want, and doesn’t care either way about the fate of his corrupted spawn. I suppose this never the less gives us a better insight in the behavior of the Elder Dragons.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

~Snip~
In my opinion Konig, I would have loved it for there so be some sort of mystical reason why Norn women could not be corrupted, OR (as others have suggested) for there to be a far darker fate for them. I imagined that Jormag was at least building an army, and had strong control over his followers. It’s a bit disappointing that apparently Jormag just lets the Sons of Svanir do what they want, and doesn’t care either way about the fate of his corrupted spawn. I suppose this never the less gives us a better insight in the behavior of the Elder Dragons.

Hahahaha! +1 to you Antara!

Also, Getefix, we don’t know for a fact that that is the case. Sea of Sorrows confirmed something I had suspected for a while now- the loss of free will associated with becoming a dragon minion does not translate into loss of personality. It just reshuffles priorities, twisting one into a fanatical follower of whichever dragon. For the Sons of Svanir, that would be very little change. Look at the bosses in the Honor of the Waves- they all have icebrood models, but their personalities would not be out of place among non-corrupted Svanir, and although they’re all corrupted, they exhibit different methodologies and goals- all for the service of Jormag, but different all the same. Given this uniqueness of personality, and their ability to act accordingly, I could easily see icebrood Sons killing icebrood female norn.

The way I see it, Jormag does have control over his minions. The issue we’re running into is that the Sons of Svanir aren’t actually minions, but just individuals who worship Jormag. They still have full control of their bodies, and it’s these individuals who kill corrupted women. If it were a creature that had been fully turned into a minion (I.E. a walking block of ice), then they would fully be under Jormag’s control and not really care about women being corrupted just as Jormag doesn’t care who it corrupts. It wouldn’t surprise me that once we focus on Jormag, and visit areas that are under his full control (as in no Svanir, and just Icebrood), then we’ll probably find one or two minions that can be discerned as once being female.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In my opinion Konig, I would have loved it for there so be some sort of mystical reason why Norn women could not be corrupted, OR (as others have suggested) for there to be a far darker fate for them. I imagined that Jormag was at least building an army, and had strong control over his followers. It’s a bit disappointing that apparently Jormag just lets the Sons of Svanir do what they want, and doesn’t care either way about the fate of his corrupted spawn. I suppose this never the less gives us a better insight in the behavior of the Elder Dragons.

I find the outcome to be disappointing as well, but it just would make no sense whatsoever for norn women and norn women alone (sans sylvari and Forgotten magic) to be immune to Jormag’s corruption. I would have preferred something other than those two.

About the male icebrood possibly killing off female icebrood – I wouldn’t say Jormag prevents that and it’s only the Sons of Svanir killing female icebrood. Rather, I point to Sea of Sorrows and how the Maw as a risen went and devoured dozens of other risen, actively though alongside living.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

In my opinion Konig, I would have loved it for there so be some sort of mystical reason why Norn women could not be corrupted, OR (as others have suggested) for there to be a far darker fate for them. I imagined that Jormag was at least building an army, and had strong control over his followers. It’s a bit disappointing that apparently Jormag just lets the Sons of Svanir do what they want, and doesn’t care either way about the fate of his corrupted spawn. I suppose this never the less gives us a better insight in the behavior of the Elder Dragons.

I find the outcome to be disappointing as well, but it just would make no sense whatsoever for norn women and norn women alone (sans sylvari and Forgotten magic) to be immune to Jormag’s corruption. I would have preferred something other than those two.

I don’t know, I find Norn Women to be extremely resilient. More so than male Norn who look to achieve the top of their ranks. I’m not saying Norn Women do not want to be admired amongst others either, but they seem more independent and I wouldn’t had been surprised if they help a special spiritual power where Jormag spared them, or consumed their power, etc.

On another note, If there were Norn women on Planet Earth, I would most certainly be attracted to their self confidence over any other.

I find little to no difference in terms of personality between male and female norn. I certainly wouldn’t call female norn “extremely resilient” and male norn not. Both male and female norn are independent in relatively equal quantities, so I wouldn’t say that female norn are more independent either – heck, you got female norn NPCs desperately looking for company and refusing to live alone…

I have not took the time to understand all the Norn women. I have admired the ones I have took notice too.

The latest developer response is extremely disappointing to say the least.

In fact, it just removes quite a lot of potential depth from Jormag. Instead of having the women just get killed or going with a ‘valkyrie style joan of arc overly exaggerated and pretty childish romantic immaculate incorruptibility’ they could have thought of a more sophisticated use for the females.

It’s well known that Jormag is a powermonger, and power is his weapon, his offering and most valued commodity. In fact, Jormag’s end goal is control over all of the power of the universe, which is still slightly different from other dragons and is a good twist on the ‘make everything resemble themselves’ basic mentality Anet have been pushing with the dragons. And in fact Jormag’s most recent defeat, however minor, was at the hands of a norn champion aided by the spirits of the wild. Otherworldly beings quite alien to him or his minions, and thus ones he must take particular interest in. Since, obviously, his lack of knowledge about them makes him weaker, and weakness is everything he is not.

Both due to this and due to his innate tendencies Jormag must have a particular interest in the Mists as a place of power and home to many of powerful beings who happen to be his enemies. However, there is nothing that would suggest that an Elder Dragon can just enter the Mists at will or that regular portals can contain him, or if it is even safe or possible for such a being to enter the Mists. Thus, he will need to have some medium, or maybe some agents, to use in his efforts to control it. Female norn could be corrupted but kept as ‘dragon shamans’, vessels for Jormag to channel the power of the mists, or his chosen warriors, infused with his corrupting force and sent to the Mists to bring the fight to the Spirits of the Wild and other transcendent beings opposing him.

Such a plot twist could potentially beef up the intelligence of our enemy and maybe make for a better story than all of this Zhaitan mess was. Unfortunately, Anet do not seem to care about such a great opportunity still available to them and decided simply to shut down an entire potential story branch. I mean, it really costs them nothing to say ‘you will probably see when you get closer to fighting Jormag’ or ‘would you really think such a devious and cunning enemy throws useful resources away?’ and both pour some oil into the lore speculations and save them an opportunity to add something to the game.

It would also have been interesting if Norn women were simply driven insane, and committed suicide instead of joining Jormag. But alas, it was not to be. I was so hoping for an actual mystery there.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But I don’t agree with your point. I’m not sure if centaurs have been in contact with Jormag’s influence much at all, and I don’t see any use in corrupted bats. And as far as the Jotun are concerned, many of them have fled. Also, there is a corrupted Jungle Wurm in Caledon Forest. Not by Jormag, but corrupted none the less.

The female Norn are a different matter though. We are told explicitly that their fate after facing Jormag, is unknown. That is a clear hint that more is going on. Now you could spin that any way you wish, but it is not on equal footing with a lack of corrupted centaurs, jotun, wurms or bats. Unlike centaurs, we know that all Norn have been in direct conflict with Jormag on a very frequent basis. So the fact that we haven’t seen any of them turned to Icebrood, and the fact that this absence is emphasized in the lore, is a clear indication that there might be more to this than meets the eye. It validates investigation. You of all people should recognize a lore mystery when you see one.

If we look at this interview, about two thirds of the way down, Jeff Grub and Ree Soesbee explain that Jormag would corrupt females, but since the Sons of Svanir are a mens-only club, women found trying to worship Jormag as Dragon are killed.

Their hatred kind of makes sense (if you really want to stretch suspension of disbelief), since their historical champion (Svanir) was killed by Jora – a Norn woman.

Would be a funny spin if Jormag actually turned out to be female and only corrupted male’s because she doesn’t like competition! xD

Keyce.8137:

If we look at this interview, about two thirds of the way down, Jeff Grub and Ree Soesbee explain that Jormag would corrupt females, but since the Sons of Svanir are a mens-only club, women found trying to worship Jormag as Dragon are killed.

Their hatred kind of makes sense (if you really want to stretch suspension of disbelief), since their historical champion (Svanir) was killed by Jora – a Norn woman.

Always read the last posts of a lore topic before you post. Or you may end up posting something that everyone is already discussing.

I think what ended up happening was that Anet wanted to plan something special related to female norn icebrood. But they ended up running out of time before the game launched and decided to just explain it away as the sons of svanir killing them whenever they saw them.

even then some norn females could still be corrupted tho they cant be in areas where there are sons of svanir thoes we would not have run into them atleast not yet

I have two guesses for this. Jormag could be using sex as an arbitrary way of sorting his new minions (males to the front lines, females to guard his domain) or he doesn’t show his female minions because it might upset his Sons of Svanir that a woman was granted Jormag’s gifts.

Korsbaek.9803:

even then some norn females could still be corrupted tho they cant be in areas where there are sons of svanir thoes we would not have run into them atleast not yet

I’d imagine that male icebrood norn would also be killing off female icebrood norn. As seen through Sea of Sorrows, even low-level risen keep their personalities, it’s just altered to have a fanaticism of their dragon. Which means Sons of Svanir personalities don’t change much if at all.

Then there’s also an example in Sea of Sorrows where a risen willingly devours other risen alongside the living, uncaring of the difference, and the nearby risen leader doesn’t give a hoot.

We don’t know if all those that follow Jormag also follow Svanir. He is just one champion and there may be others with their own cults, making sense with how it spreads with the ideology. They could just be further north than we go. The sons of Svanir acting as scouts and a harassment force before Jormag sends the main force south.

now, this is probably a widely speculated theory, but what if the sons of svanir are capable of influencing jormag in some way?

for example, SoS says no females, and jormag goes “okay, no female ice broods”

i’m not saying SoS controls jormag, they can’t like have him attack hoelbrak or anything, it’s more of jormag going “i have ants following me? might as well make ants happy”, i know this adds a layer of intelligence that the other elder dragons haven’t shown though

I don’t see why they’d have to/should go with some mystical reason for the female norn to be more resistant or anything else to explain why they don’t come back.

Sons of Svanir are very, very obviously anti-female, so why would it be shocking they’d slay female norn trying to or joining Jormag?

Take it like this, any female norn icebrood are going to be insanely powerful/tough as they’ve survived the sons of svanir attempts to purge them :P.

Gwaiyn.4395:

now, this is probably a widely speculated theory, but what if the sons of svanir are capable of influencing jormag in some way?

for example, SoS says no females, and jormag goes “okay, no female ice broods”

i’m not saying SoS controls jormag, they can’t like have him attack hoelbrak or anything, it’s more of jormag going “i have ants following me? might as well make ants happy”, i know this adds a layer of intelligence that the other elder dragons haven’t shown though

Jormag doesn’t care about the ants though.

Also, in the Kodan dungeon storymode, the icebrood/sons of Svanir corrupt a female Kodan into icebrood and set her against the party.

Within Jormag’s ranks, I’d guess that the Svanir are unique to him with regards to the norn and we don’t really know why other than the events from GW1 where Svanir was corrupted and his sister Jora resisted.

It cost her a lot, but she retained her life and sanity against Jormag’s power.

Females just don’t get turned into minions. We don’t really know why exactly. If they’re captured alive VS killed, in all likelihood they’re probably sacrificed, tortured, etc… then killed.

You’re right, the Svanir cult aren’t friendly to women, akin to the Flame Legion.

Whatever it is, female norn don’t simply become minions. We can assume Jormag deals with norn differently than he does other races we know about based on that.

It probably had something to do going back to Svanir himself and his sister Jora.

Some unique corruption or special rank he was going to inflict on them as a pair, but Jora “broke” it.

CETheLucid.3964:

Within Jormag’s ranks, I’d guess that the Svanir are unique to him with regards to the norn and we don’t really know why other than the events from GW1 where Svanir was corrupted and his sister Jora resisted.

It cost her a lot, but she retained her life and sanity against Jormag’s power.

Females just don’t get turned into minions. We don’t really know why exactly. If they’re captured alive VS killed, in all likelihood they’re probably sacrificed, tortured, etc… then killed.

You’re right, the Svanir cult aren’t friendly to women, akin to the Flame Legion.

Whatever it is, female norn don’t simply become minions. We can assume Jormag deals with norn differently than he does other races we know about based on that.

It probably had something to do going back to Svanir himself and his sister Jora.

Some unique corruption or special rank he was going to inflict on them as a pair, but Jora “broke” it.

As noted, Jormag prefers for you to willingly join(or his corruption works fastest on those that do). The only difference between the two is Jora rejected easy power, while Svanir embraced it.

It’s just that sons of Svanir kill female norn who try to join or become icebrood. Though amusingly enough, one in Hoelbrek actually tried convincing my female norn to follow dragon. I guess he’s a ‘moderate’ one :P

Dev’s said Jormag basically doesn’t give a care about what the Sons of Svanir do in the end.

Gwaiyn.4395:

now, this is probably a widely speculated theory, but what if the sons of svanir are capable of influencing jormag in some way?

for example, SoS says no females, and jormag goes “okay, no female ice broods”

i’m not saying SoS controls jormag, they can’t like have him attack hoelbrak or anything, it’s more of jormag going “i have ants following me? might as well make ants happy”, i know this adds a layer of intelligence that the other elder dragons haven’t shown though

Jormag corrupts the women too. It’s just that the Sons of Svanir kill them.

This isn’t unique, however. The Sons of Svanir make a living to hunt down icebrood to prove their strength and receive Jormag’s ‘blessings’ (aka corruption) – as one can see in dialogue within The Barrowstead.

Son of Svanir: You have much to learn about Jormag.
Svanir Initiate: Then teach me.
Son of Svanir: Only Jormag can teach you.
Svanir Initiate: Then I go to find Jormag.
Son of Svanir: You are not ready. Hunt minions first. Watch. Learn. Live.

Furthermore, based on the Frost Portal dialogue – Jormag doesn’t seem to care if he loses minions because they’re weak and thus not worth his time and effort, and he’ll even let strong ones leave his corruption because they’re strong and he tries to convince them that if they ever want to become stronger… eventually they’ll come to him for power.

Yes, this shows intelligence other dragons haven’t really shown… if you’re looking at the surface that Anet wants you to believe. But all dragons show some level of intelligence – Kralkatorrik and Jormag showing the most, followed by Mordremoth and Zhaitan.

About case where instantly beings become icebrood like contact with crystal that land on your head that instead of dead you rise as icebrood: fear of death, close to it, you start admire/respect power that is gonna kill you, therefore borns desire to gain power, Jormag see weaves in Mists of those who desire for power and grants its to them.

Imo it is always and only case of willing for power, that strong will can born in 0,0001s before death.

Talking, show-offs, challenges, hierarchy, lust, desire, moments of helplessness, being on verge of die are all able to create willing for power even if acquired in different way/length of time.

So if you gonna die while fighting with jormag’s power don’t be tempted by his power and don’ desire it, focus on your true power that lies inside you. <Jora’ way imo, she didn’t want depending on power of anoyne besides her own, which I received when met her>

Mem no Fushia.7604:

About case where instantly beings become icebrood like contact with crystal that land on your head that instead of dead you rise as icebrood: fear of death, close to it, you start admire/respect power that is gonna kill you, therefore borns desire to gain power, Jormag see weaves in Mists of those who desire for power and grants its to them.

Imo it is always and only case of willing for power, that strong will can born in 0,0001s before death.

Talking, show-offs, challenges, hierarchy, lust, desire, moments of helplessness, being on verge of die are all able to create willing for power even if acquired in different way/length of time.

So if you gonna die while fighting with jormag’s power don’t be tempted by his power and don’ desire it, focus on your true power that lies inside you. <Jora’ way imo, she didn’t want depending on power of anoyne besides her own, which I received when met her>

I’d say a simpler description could be the knowledge of “If I were stronger, I wouldn’t be about to die.”

The question is does the person grasp onto the power being offered by Jormag, or refuse it? We’ve seen ‘forced’ corruptions,The female Koda, the voice of the Honor of the Waves (IIRC, that was her title. The Claw of Koda survives I think). But we basically walk into the last moments before icebrood, so we don’t see what the Son of Svanir/partial icebrood did to her.

Kalavier.1097:

Mem no Fushia.7604:

About case where instantly beings become icebrood like contact with crystal that land on your head that instead of dead you rise as icebrood: fear of death, close to it, you start admire/respect power that is gonna kill you, therefore borns desire to gain power, Jormag see weaves in Mists of those who desire for power and grants its to them.

Imo it is always and only case of willing for power, that strong will can born in 0,0001s before death.

Talking, show-offs, challenges, hierarchy, lust, desire, moments of helplessness, being on verge of die are all able to create willing for power even if acquired in different way/length of time.

So if you gonna die while fighting with jormag’s power don’t be tempted by his power and don’ desire it, focus on your true power that lies inside you. <Jora’ way imo, she didn’t want depending on power of anoyne besides her own, which I received when met her>

I’d say a simpler description could be the knowledge of “If I were stronger, I wouldn’t be about to die.”

The question is does the person grasp onto the power being offered by Jormag, or refuse it? We’ve seen ‘forced’ corruptions,The female Koda, the voice of the Honor of the Waves (IIRC, that was her title. The Claw of Koda survives I think). But we basically walk into the last moments before icebrood, so we don’t see what the Son of Svanir/partial icebrood did to her.

Elder Dragons can corrupt in any number of ways. They simply have prefer means. So in theory every ED can corrupt by force, by trickery, or assembly some sort of construct. Some just don’t like to.

The Sons of Svanir break Jormag’s apparent preference of corruption – we see multiple cases where they corrupt unwilling converts. This is likely due to the fact that they themselves aren’t yet corrupted.

I’m glad this was revisited! I had always sort of wondered about this topic.

I was under the impression of Sons of Svanir simply killing female norn if they’re being corrupted. Generally, where there are norn and icebrood, there are SoS. It doesn’t really have to have anything to do with the motives of the dragon.