Guild Wars 2

As much lore has stated, the dragons are a force of nature that awaken when magic becoms too abundant in the world, the dragons collecting all that magic up and letting it seep out of them as they sleep.

Well with the notion of the game being this intention of killing the dragons and the fact that the dragons are awake meaning that their is too much magic in the world, what will happen if and when the dragons are all killed?

Depends on if magic would still increase without them, and if the dragons don’t release as much as they absorb.

I’d imagine that if magic continues to increase, we’ll be finding more and more elementals and attracting more demons from the Mists – until “natural” magical disasters on par to Thaumanova start up, and ever getting worse until the world is pretty much in a post-cataclysmic uninhabitable state. But that’s just my guess on what’d happen if magic were to increase far too much (and unstably).

If magic doesn’t increase without the ED’s hibernation presence, then there’d just no longer be a fluxuation of the world’s magic – unless using magic reduces the amount of magic in the world (but then the ED would have to be producing more magic than they consume which doesn’t make much sense).

they could probably (assuming they realised there was a problem) invent something that does the same thing the elder dragons were doing

i hope its the first, would make for alot more interesting future stories.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Depends on if magic would still increase without them, and if the dragons don’t release as much as they absorb.

I’d imagine that if magic continues to increase, we’ll be finding more and more elementals and attracting more demons from the Mists – until “natural” magical disasters on par to Thaumanova start up, and ever getting worse until the world is pretty much in a post-cataclysmic uninhabitable state. But that’s just my guess on what’d happen if magic were to increase far too much (and unstably).

If magic doesn’t increase without the ED’s hibernation presence, then there’d just no longer be a fluxuation of the world’s magic – unless using magic reduces the amount of magic in the world (but then the ED would have to be producing more magic than they consume which doesn’t make much sense).

the characters of Tyria do use magic though; and have used it for centuries with it building up still. a we use it, more replaces it, it seems.

LeDuc.1436:

the characters of Tyria do use magic though; and have used it for centuries with it building up still. a we use it, more replaces it, it seems.

That would however only work if we assume that we actually consume magic when using it, which might not be the case.

So as long as there is an influx of magic there will basically just increase more and more.

It’s possible the nature of magic would simply adapt also, possibly give birth to something new entirely. Magic I imagine is rather flexible.

LeDuc.1436:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Depends on if magic would still increase without them, and if the dragons don’t release as much as they absorb.

I’d imagine that if magic continues to increase, we’ll be finding more and more elementals and attracting more demons from the Mists – until “natural” magical disasters on par to Thaumanova start up, and ever getting worse until the world is pretty much in a post-cataclysmic uninhabitable state. But that’s just my guess on what’d happen if magic were to increase far too much (and unstably).

If magic doesn’t increase without the ED’s hibernation presence, then there’d just no longer be a fluxuation of the world’s magic – unless using magic reduces the amount of magic in the world (but then the ED would have to be producing more magic than they consume which doesn’t make much sense).

the characters of Tyria do use magic though; and have used it for centuries with it building up still. a we use it, more replaces it, it seems.

channeling magic is not consuming it.

it’s the difference between firing a squirt gun and drinking the water inside it.

LeDuc.1436:

the characters of Tyria do use magic though; and have used it for centuries with it building up still. a we use it, more replaces it, it seems.

The races utilize it, but nothing says that their utilization of it brings forth an entropy effect – that the races casting spells reduces the world’s magic is unstated and speculative.

That was what I meant.

It could be that when one dragon dies the rest become stronger, or more dragons are born.

I remember seeing a theory a while back- and my apologies to originator, I don’t remember who it was, and thereby cannot properly credit them- but the gist of it was that Elder Dragon are essentially elementals, albeit of otherwise unprecedented size and power. If that is the case, which I personally find likely, then the formation of more dragons as magic accumulates is a natural process. The question would be rather the new dragon/s could form before the magic build-up reaches apocalyptic proportions.

Thalador and I both presented theories akin to that idea – I think Thalador did say elementals and there was probably someone else who thought along the same lines. I’d view them closer to demons (imps eat magic too, albeit only elemental magic as far as we know, and grow as they consume more – an imp that’s 1,000 feet tall may end up looking rather dragon like), but I presented the theory that since Glint calls Kralkatorrik to be “more magical than physical” (Edge of Destiny during the fight) that the Elder Dragons may be coalesced magic taken sentient and physical form (their whole sentience may be formed solely out of the corruption of living beings in said theory).

The idea of new dragons forming upon the death of another does present something interesting. Remember Arah jotun path? At the end you see the formation of a new star and it’s said it signals the awakening of a dragon – odd that one would awaken after Zhaitan’s death even though 50-ish years haven’t passed since Kralkatorrik’s awakening. What if instead it signaled the birth of a new Elder Dragon? One to replace Zhaitan.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea of new dragons forming upon the death of another does present something interesting. Remember Arah jotun path? At the end you see the formation of a new star and it’s said it signals the awakening of a dragon – odd that one would awaken after Zhaitan’s death even though 50-ish years haven’t passed since Kralkatorrik’s awakening. What if instead it signaled the birth of a new Elder Dragon? One to replace Zhaitan.

Interesting thought, but Priory researchers looking into Jotun stelae speak of 6 against 5. Also, Primordus stirred about 50 years prior to it’s awakening, it could be a common thing for them to take more or less 50 years to wake up.

Here’s thinking in context of a possible way to control magic in Tyria without Elder Dragons, The Bloodstone! I mean think about it, it was created to take all non-Elder Dragon magic and hold it away to starve them out. Who’s to say that it couldn’t be pieced back together (after long and dangerous storyline to find all of the pieces) and used as a sponge or a dam in order to control the level that magic reaches within the world of Tyria.

EDIT: I understand that the purpose of the Bloodstone would have to be changed slightly, but I do think that with some proper know how (and perhaps some delving into Seer history) we could figure out how to make it do what we want it to do.

Narcemus.1348:

Here’s thinking in context of a possible way to control magic in Tyria without Elder Dragons, The Bloodstone! I mean think about it, it was created to take all non-Elder Dragon magic and hold it away to starve them out. Who’s to say that it couldn’t be pieced back together (after long and dangerous storyline to find all of the pieces) and used as a sponge or a dam in order to control the level that magic reaches within the world of Tyria.

EDIT: I understand that the purpose of the Bloodstone would have to be changed slightly, but I do think that with some proper know how (and perhaps some delving into Seer history) we could figure out how to make it do what we want it to do.

wouldn’t they cap after a certain amount though? and what would happen if a fully stored bloodstone were to shatter and release all the contained magic?

bloodstone solution would be akin to storing electricity inside nuclear weapons waiting to be triggered… ohwait :|

All I have to say is, the bloodstone held all the magic not corrupted by Elder Dragons at a time similar to now. I mean, obviously we do not know how much magic an Elder Dragon could consume, but I think it would be sufficient to say that if we kept magic exactly as full as it is now, and then stored away whatever is held by the remaining Elder Dragons at this moment the magic held in the world would probably be fine. Now I cannot say that the Bloodstone can hold all of that, it is merely speculative, but something like this would give an organization like the Pact a reason to stick around once the Elder Dragons are over and done with. To protect, at all costs, the dam which holds back the eventual destruction of Tyria. Honestly though, do you think that just letting all the magic held by the Elder Dragons run a muck would be a better solution? In all honesty there is no good solution, you just, most likely, have to chose the better of two evils.

BrunoBRS.5178:

channeling magic is not consuming it.
it’s the difference between firing a squirt gun and drinking the water inside it.

You would probably be dismayed to learn that there isn’t a difference there, either. Drinking the water doesn’t change it. What you take in is excreted back out, pretty much in the same form it was in when you drank it. Water is a nutritional catalyst, which, like any catalyst, doesn’t change when used and is not used up itself.

Yes, that’s why you can process urine to reclaim the water in it, and it’s safe, sterile, and healthy to drink.

That was probably TMI for most of you, but meh.

A better analogy for the way dragons seem to work is a capacitor operating in reverse. When they sleep, they discharge back into the system, releasing the energy they gathered while actively charging, and when they get too low (ie, when there is more magic in the world than in them) they wake up and begin feeding (charging up). A normal capacitor charges up while it’s resting, only to discharge when activated.

Channeling magic is just creating a new circuit between the source of magic and the magical ground. I was going to go on about that, but then I realized I was getting deep into some theories that the game just can’t get into, so I decided it best to just stop.

Narcemus.1348:

All I have to say is, the bloodstone held all the magic not corrupted by Elder Dragons at a time similar to now.

This made me wonder, maybe the Elder Dragons turn magic into it’s pure form instead of corrupting it? The Elder Dragons all represent an element of magic: Earth, Water, Ice, Fire, Undead and Chaos (probably), and they awaken to turn all the corrupted magic (corrupted by living creatures combining and missusing it) back to it’s pure form.

They do this by taking the magic into them self where it turn back and over time flows back out into the world.

The Elder Dragons themself could also be the corrupted magic taking shape (like an elemental), it would explain why they are so kitten mad. If this is the case then we can’t really kill them, just put them down for a while before they take shape again.

Well, I would agree that the Elder Dragons see what they are doing to the land as purifying it rather than corrupting it. Various dialogues, specifically from the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan, point to this. I guess the question stands as what is corrupted and what is not. From the standpoint of the players though, hands down, the complete and total stealing of the will and forcing into servitude counts as corruption and evil.

Narcemus.1348:

Well, I would agree that the Elder Dragons see what they are doing to the land as purifying it rather than corrupting it. Various dialogues, specifically from the Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan, point to this. I guess the question stands as what is corrupted and what is not. From the standpoint of the players though, hands down, the complete and total stealing of the will and forcing into servitude counts as corruption and evil.

That is however not the corruption used by all of the Elder Dragons.
Technically as far as we know the only Elder Dragon that actually uses that kind of corruption is Kralkatorrik.
(Or well, Zhaitan in some cases I suppose)

LeDuc.1436:

Well with the notion of the game being this intention of killing the dragons and the fact that the dragons are awake meaning that their is too much magic in the world, what will happen if and when the dragons are all killed?

I’m not convinced that killing the Elder Dragons would cause magic to go dramatically awry in Tyria.

Reason being… we killed one. That means that approximately 1/6 of the Elder Dragons are now dead. (Or 1/5, or 1/7, etc. depending on which theory a person subscribes to.) There has been no indication in-game of any significant magical upsurge, and if the Elder Dragons are really crucial buffers, I would expect that removing a buffer of that magnitude should have had an effect that was at least slightly noticeable over the course of almost a full year.

So while we know the Elder Dragons absorb magic, practicality makes me think that 1.) there are other natural mechanisms to keep magic under control, and 2.) any change that would result from killing the Elder Dragons would probably be slow enough that Tyrians could develop ways to compensate.

If we see the Elder Dragons as a natural reaction to the over abundance of Magic, then its not hard to believe that killing one potentially will just result in a replacement forming. Theres certainly nothing to say that in all the cycles before ours that no race has ever managed to kill one of the EDs. They are clearly killable if difficult.

The major question to me would be, what would be the state of the replacements? Would they be as destructive or has something caused the EDs to become stuck apocalyptic monsters? Does that something still effect them and reinforce their nature. After all Glint WAS a dragon and whatever corrupted her was cleansed from her so in theory you can have an ‘uncorrupted’ dragon.

I suspect at some point, why the EDs are the way they are will become important. They seem like a important part of the worlds natural cycle of magic.

i just realized how much this discussion reminded me of how Golden Sun (one of my favorite JRPGs ever) handled magic in its story.

long story short, magic (or alchemy, as they call in the game) was deemed too powerful, and thus sealed away. problem is, that made the world start to wither and die, so one by one, the seals were broken to restore the original flow of magic.

this sudden overabundance of magic caused various things. first, the geography of the world couldn’t take it, and so a lot of the land has changed. islands breaking off the mainland, mountain chains where there were none, etc. second, it led to a technological advancement. third, it caused weird “black holes” to start appearing. and if i remember correctly, it had severe impact on the biology of the world too. creatures mutated due to the sheer magic surrounding them.

it wouldn’t be off to assume at least some of those would apply to GW2 in case magic started overloading the planet.

Anakita Snakecharm.4360:

I’m not convinced that killing the Elder Dragons would cause magic to go dramatically awry in Tyria.

Reason being… we killed one. That means that approximately 1/6 of the Elder Dragons are now dead. (Or 1/5, or 1/7, etc. depending on which theory a person subscribes to.) There has been no indication in-game of any significant magical upsurge, and if the Elder Dragons are really crucial buffers, I would expect that removing a buffer of that magnitude should have had an effect that was at least slightly noticeable over the course of almost a full year.

And yet during Arah Explorable we see another dragon awakening/being born, and I am assuming that it takes place quite soon after the death of Zhaitan, so technically for most of the time there isn’t really one less dragon.

wasnt the last rise of the dragon’s 10.000 years ago? if thats true it takes 10.000 years give or take for the magic to seep back from the dragons. i may take a few years for the explosive effects of killing an elder dragon takes effect.

The last known rise of the Elder Dragons was 11,000 years ago. Though according to Seiran during Bad Blood, the dwarven civilization “lasted for more than two thousand years” (which would be an odd way of meaning 11,000 years old), and it still hasn’t been truly disproven that the Forgotten didn’t arrive in 1,768 BE (which would fit the time period of “over 2,000 years ago” but before 3,000 years ago (which one may presume if the ruins were 3,000+ years old she’d say “over 3,000 years old” rather than 2,000)). Which means that it is possible still that the last ED rise was somewhere around 2,000 BE – e.g., 3,000 years ago.

Though it should be noted that the time between this last cycle is likely shorter than previous cycles, thanks to the Bloodstone’s creation and it’s absorbing and releasing of magic.

My personal theory is that the Elder Dragons rose around the times of 10,000 BE (extinction of the Giganticus Lupicus – possible end of the Age of Giants), 6,000 BE, 2,000 BE (when Glint got freed and saved five races) and now – ergo, each awakening being roughly 4,000 years apart (regardless of how long their active periods are – I presume roughly 1,000 years). This last one being a thousand years shorter thanks to the acts of the Seers and gods’ actions with magic.

This would also explain how the jotun could have records of multiple Elder Dragon risings (even if only mythological records) which implies survival of multiple Elder Dragon risings, since having records of 22,000 years ago would seem highly unlikely when all civilization supposedly ends or resets – let alone 33,000 years ago.

Either way, I agree that more than a year may be needed to see noticeable results with just one Elder Dragon’s death. Even minor ones.

In my opinion the gradual rise of magic power in Tyria is already visible. Perhaps not purely lore-wise, but in the form of player development. We received ascended items, legendaries, and we already know that more will come, and that the crafting, which is purely magic-driven, will also be expanded. We ARE getting much stronger, and we are the part of the lore.
It was actually the first thing I thought after reading the interview about the Elder Dragons being the natural regulator of magic in Tyria. It’s an amazing tool for the developers to support the introduction of new, more powerful features for players, and actually that it is already being implemented.

Crafting is far from “purely magic driven” – except perhaps in higher rarity cases, it’s questionable if magic plays a role at all – the stats are merely mechanical, so it’d be sigil and rune creation that would be magical (presuming they function like signets).

Asura invent magic capacitors problem solved.

dusanyu.4057:

Asura invent magic capacitors problem solved.

A magical capacitor would require a source of magic to charge from. If magic was drained from the world, even if only in very low levels, it would take forever for a capacitor to gather enough magical charge to cast even a simple spell. Capacitors aren’t good for low energy environments.

To be effective, you would have to charge them in a high magic area, and use them to recharge batteries that could then be used in low magic areas to power spells and effects. Capacitors by themselves don’t solve the problem.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The idea of new dragons forming upon the death of another does present something interesting. Remember Arah jotun path? At the end you see the formation of a new star and it’s said it signals the awakening of a dragon – odd that one would awaken after Zhaitan’s death even though 50-ish years haven’t passed since Kralkatorrik’s awakening. What if instead it signaled the birth of a new Elder Dragon? One to replace Zhaitan.

That’s an interesting idea. However, since logically the light of a star takes a very long time to travel, I doubt whether we would instantly see a new star the moment an Elder Dragon dies. Surely it would take decades until you would see the light of the star?

Well unless we factor in that it is a special magical telescope. But that’s kind of a cop-out writing-wise.

Well, considering that the stars reflect dragonrise in the first place, I think it’s safe to bet that they don’t work the same way- that is, at least some of the stars in the Tyrian sky are not gigantic balls of gas burning some inconceivable distance away. We really don’t know anything about space in Tyria, but I doubt it’s similar to what we have in our reality.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Well, considering that the stars reflect dragonrise in the first place, I think it’s safe to bet that they don’t work the same way- that is, at least some of the stars in the Tyrian sky are not gigantic balls of gas burning some inconceivable distance away. We really don’t know anything about space in Tyria, but I doubt it’s similar to what we have in our reality.

I suppose in a mystical fantasy setting, we can do away with the science regarding actual stars, and see them as prophetic signs, I agree.

Do we know for a fact that the stars reflect the rise of dragons? Or is this just the opinion of an npc?

I believe that study of jotun artifacts revealed a link between the formation of new stars and the awakening of the dragons. I haven’t actually done any of the Arah paths, though, so I’m a bit iffy on the details.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Well, considering that the stars reflect dragonrise in the first place, I think it’s safe to bet that they don’t work the same way- that is, at least some of the stars in the Tyrian sky are not gigantic balls of gas burning some inconceivable distance away. We really don’t know anything about space in Tyria, but I doubt it’s similar to what we have in our reality.

I suppose in a mystical fantasy setting, we can do away with the science regarding actual stars, and see them as prophetic signs, I agree.

Do we know for a fact that the stars reflect the rise of dragons? Or is this just the opinion of an npc?

What’s curious is that some speculated there was a particularly notable and bright star in the aftermath of the Abaddon fight. It may be that any powerful magical entity may have their traces written in the stars. In fact, we even have a good source to back this up:

Bahltek

Normally, I require the aide of significant and cryptic incantations to predict the future, but I must be growing more powerful by the day. Even without them, I knew you were going to bother me.

Let me save us both the trouble… you want to know why I’m here, correct? Ah, how surprising.

I’m trying to view the stars for some investigations I am conducting. No, don’t ask any questions, I’ll tell you more without your pedantic babble. Hearing you stumble around trying to command the simplest spoken phraseology is simply too frustrating for me.

The gods can be seen in the heavens… to varying degrees. They’ve emblazoned their marks upon the firmament, and these marks are not constant. As per established parameters, I’m sure this is entirely comprehensible and beneficial knowledge to you. How very clever you are.

Regarding the major point of this topic, I hypothesized along the very lines of some of these posters ages ago, with my view being that in a world absent of dragons, if the core held some bits of the Mists or, magic, in its composition, this would be the wellspring of life on worlds throughout the Mists. Also, to protect the worlds from the ravages of the very same Mists that gave them life, this core may produce a protective field sheltering the worlds from the raw creative energies of the Mists and the demons that emerge from them. With all this in play, you might have hastened formation of life throughout the worlds varying on the amount of magical/Mists concentrations found in the world’s core, as a result of the very same magic radiating from it.

What’s interesting that I didn’t note during this early hypothesis was that this also coincides fairly well with the asuran aptitude for magic, as they would be closer to the world’s concentration of magic, should it prove true. Along an opposite line, I now have some sort of decent evidence for the notion of the greater magical field up higher with the aid of our friends the Zephyrites.

It’s all coming together. I hope. My hypothesis may yet become a proper theory.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

However, since logically the light of a star takes a very long time to travel, I doubt whether we would instantly see a new star the moment an Elder Dragon dies. Surely it would take decades until you would see the light of the star?

If this were reality, yes.

However, we have 0 evidence to claim that is so for Tyria, and even in Nightfall we had stars foretelling the future and even the current state of events in both Tyria and the Mists. For all we know, there is no “outer space” of Tyria – just the Mists existing out there. In which a star’s light can instantenously reach us because they may not be giant gas balls on fire.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Do we know for a fact that the stars reflect the rise of dragons? Or is this just the opinion of an npc?

It’s the results of research done by ancient long-dead jotun (the only race implied to have survived multiple dragonrisings.

Bahltek’s words are also very compelling. He’s always been one of my favorite mysterious npc’s.

However, if Tyria had no outer space, then some of the representations we see of Tyria’s solar system in Divinity’s Reach and in Cantha would be very strange.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If this were reality, yes.

However, we have 0 evidence to claim that is so for Tyria, and even in Nightfall we had stars foretelling the future and even the current state of events in both Tyria and the Mists. For all we know, there is no “outer space” of Tyria – just the Mists existing out there. In which a star’s light can instantenously reach us because they may not be giant gas balls on fire.

i actually really like that idea, that the tyrian sky is actually just a reflection of the mists, as if tyria was just a blob hovering in the middle of it.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Bahltek’s words are also very compelling. He’s always been one of my favorite mysterious npc’s.

However, if Tyria had no outer space, then some of the representations we see of Tyria’s solar system in Divinity’s Reach and in Cantha would be very strange.

all a matter of scale. or even, those systems could be wrong. how many solar system models have we gone through in real life until we got the “right” one?

BrunoBRS.5178:

all a matter of scale. or even, those systems could be wrong. how many solar system models have we gone through in real life until we got the “right” one?

Yes, but those planets and moons are still there. The distances may be off, and we may have missed a few planets, or made a few up. But in the end, there are planets and moons out there, so logically there must also be space. Unless in Guild Wars all planets float in the Mists.

Unless those are just merely planets also floating in space.

Then again… how sure are you that they are planets? And not just chunks of shiny land? Or an unearthly glow of light akin to that in the middle of the Hall of Heroes?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

BrunoBRS.5178:

all a matter of scale. or even, those systems could be wrong. how many solar system models have we gone through in real life until we got the “right” one?

Yes, but those planets and moons are still there. The distances may be off, and we may have missed a few planets, or made a few up. But in the end, there are planets and moons out there, so logically there must also be space. Unless in Guild Wars all planets float in the Mists.

can we be sure it’s a planet that’s physically distant from tyria? what’s to say it’s not a reflection from the mists of another planet?

for all we know, the sun, the moon, and the stars are all just fragments of the mists, and tyria is just spinning in place, all “center of the universe” like.

Still, that is not how Tyria’s universe is represented in Divinity’s Reach, nor in Cantha. You’d think that the people who actually study the planets, would try to make an accurate representation of Tyria’s constellation.

In the game we see the planets and moons presented as such on a very large scale.
We can be VERY sure that they are actually planets and moons. The people of Tyria seem to think so. They even seem aware of the orbit of various moons around planets. So there has to be space out there.

humanity’s best scientists and astronomers were very sure that the earth was at the center and everything else spun around it, until someone proved otherwise.

conventions are proven wrong all the time.

note: i’m not saying my theory is necessarily right, but the tyrian sky does not behave like a “traditional space model”, what with stars showing up left and right to reflect events in tyria (much like fragments, or fractals as we now call them, of the mists are formed), and the fact that the royal garden’s model of space seems to be mere decoration rather than something more thought out (we don’t have names for the planets or scholars using it as a reference for their calculations or anything) makes me think that it shouldn’t be taken that seriously.

LeDuc.1436:

As much lore has stated, the dragons are a force of nature that awaken when magic becoms too abundant in the world, the dragons collecting all that magic up and letting it seep out of them as they sleep.

Well with the notion of the game being this intention of killing the dragons and the fact that the dragons are awake meaning that their is too much magic in the world, what will happen if and when the dragons are all killed?

I’d assume after horrible things start happening, people would try to find out how to bind magic into the bloodstones, and then just keeping doing that over and over for the next few milennia, kinda like nuclear energy… the waste has to go somewhere…

I’d like to stress the difference here, between the dragons being a force of nature, and the dragons being LIKE a force of nature.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Still, that is not how Tyria’s universe is represented in Divinity’s Reach, nor in Cantha.

Erm… I just want to say – those astrological models seen in Nahpui Quarter are not of the solar system – let alone universe. They’re constellations. Specifically of the celestials (it’s just same model reused).

Well, I suppose there’s a chance it’s of the solar system but if so they have a really messed up view of it compared to DR’s orrery.

I’d also like to point out that in the Seer path of Arah explorable, there is what appears to be a huge (destroyed) orrery that differs greatly from the DR one (and is far far larger). Sadly, I don’t think I took the time to take pictures >.< Naturally it didn’t show rotations, but it showed fewer orbs that’re likely to be planets than DR’s. And differently spaced out.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You’d think that the people who actually study the planets, would try to make an accurate representation of Tyria’s constellation.

Just because they try… doesn’t mean that they do.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

We can be VERY sure that they are actually planets and moons. The people of Tyria seem to think so. They even seem aware of the orbit of various moons around planets. So there has to be space out there.

1. Just because Tyrians think so, doesn’t make it so. GW2 is very heavy on the concept of subjective knowledge.
2. Just because there are other planets, doesn’t mean that the space between them is empty without air or any kind of existence like our outer space.

You’re making presumptions on something based off of something which we hold no knowledge other than an appearance of which isn’t even directly related to the topic – using a man-made model of a solar system to explain what lies between the planets shown in the model. It can very well be that the Mists exists between these planets, rather than “lack of anything” that outer space typically is.

If what lies between the planets is the Mists, why would we need portals to travel to the Mists? Asura could just build some kind of rocket ship and launch us there. No, I think it’s pretty clearly established that The Mists are an alternate dimension next to our own.

And if the people of Tyria look up at the sky and see planets and moons, then you can be sure that there is space up there. Why wouldn’t there be?

Who says that the asura can’t build a rocket ship to go to the Mists?

The Mists is established as:

_Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place. _

The Mists is something that exists between everything – between realms especially. That sounds like outer space to me. It connects multiple dimensions, but doesn’t mean it solely is such.

Also: Look up in the Realm of Torment and what will you see? Stars. The only difference (aethetically) between Tyria’s night sky and the Realm of Torment’s sky is that there is a moon for Tyria.

Sounds more like the Mists is the fabric that keeps everything together, including space and time itself. It is the foundation upon which everything else rests. The Realm of Torment is simply another dimension within the Mists, so it isn’t odd that there are stars. But it is a different sky you’re looking at. But the fact that there are planets and moons and stars, means there would also be space. As in, no air, no gravity, and pretty cold.