Guild Wars 2

What happens with dragons minions when they win?

Considering the dragons’ goal is to consume all the magic in the world, if they hypothetically consume every tiny scrap of magic, all that will be left is their minions, which are also controlled and animated using magic, therefore the dragons simply just cover them in salt and pepper, and eat them before going to sleep for the next few thousand years.

We know some Dragon Champions are left awake to watch over the world. This is why Glint was still awake. As for the lesser minions I’m gonna agree with Argon and say they eat them. Gotta get back that energy they used to make them, and there’s no reason to keep them around if there’s nothing to challenge the dragons anymore.

There’s always a challenge to the dragons…

The other Elder Dragons.

They’ve not shown hostilities (yet), but they all aim after the same food source.

True, but the last time they were awake and had their food source removed by the Bloodstone they all just went back to sleep. If they all had an epic battle at the end of their feeding cycle there wouldn’t be as many dragons still around as they’d have killed one another. None of them made a move to take out another dragon while it was asleep either. Zhaitan, arguably the weakest dragon, had a huge head start and didn’t really capitalize on it. The dragons seem more concerned with consuming what’s in their immediate area than defeating the other dragons.

Granted maybe that is why Glint was the only Dragon Champion still active. After the dragons went to sleep she was the one that killed the other Champions to secure an advantage for Kraalkatorrik.

Ehecatl.9172:

Granted maybe that is why Glint was the only Dragon Champion still active. After the dragons went to sleep she was the one that killed the other Champions to secure an advantage for Kraalkatorrik.

I wouldn’t say that. There was the Great Destroyer, Drakkar, the risen Giganticus Lupicus… I’d bet rather that the champions are supposed to hibernate too, but Glint, thanks to a Forgotten-fueled rebellious phase, stayed up past her bedtime.

There is also the possibility of a stalemate between each elder dragon. None of them have truely been able to kill each other due to their sleep cycle no matter what advantage they had over each other.

Of course that has now changed due to the defeat of Zhaitan and the long stalemate is broken thanks to the Pact.

Ehecatl.9172:

If they all had an epic battle at the end of their feeding cycle there wouldn’t be as many dragons still around as they’d have killed one another.

This possibility does present one interesting question though:

What if originally there were more dragons?

Glint’s history as well as the lore of Cantha, Bone Dragons, Rotscale, and the appearance of both Zhaitan’s dragon-shaped champions and the Claws of Jormag indicate that there was once a race of dragons – or rather, many races of dragons.

It’s been a theory of mine for a while that the Elder Dragons might have been ‘greedier’ dragons that consumed more magic than others, lived longer, and grew more powerful than the others and slowly killed said others off – or twisting them into their slaves like Glint.

It would seem in the Elder Dragons’ best interest – given that their minions state things like eternal rule of their dragon and various other indications which point to the Elder Dragons not wanting to go back to sleep – to kill the other Elder Dragons.

But it makes sense for them not to make a move at first, because they’re weakened. If Zhaitan, for example, made a move against the sleeping Mordremoth of Kralkatorrik what would prevent Primordus or Jormag (or the DSD) from making a move on Zhaitan after he’s expelled a bunch of energy killing (and perhaps wakening unintentionally) Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik.

They probably see it far riskier to attack other Elder Dragons than to attack civilizations, so fighting the other ED is an ‘end-game’ for them. In this scenario.

Ehecatl.9172:

Granted maybe that is why Glint was the only Dragon Champion still active. After the dragons went to sleep she was the one that killed the other Champions to secure an advantage for Kraalkatorrik.

We don’t really know when Glint was freed, but it seems likely to be before Kralkatorrik fell asleep given that it was Glint that hid the four races (Mursaat fled the world so of the five they weren’t hidden).

And as Aaron said, we have knowledge of other Elder Dragons having powerful minions about before their awakening – the risen Giganticus Lupicus was corrupted during the last dragonrise; Drakkar who woke up Jormag; the Great Destroyer who was meant to wake Primordus.

Interestingly, Kralkatorrik is the only dragon to not have been woken by a minion or had a minion around while it was asleep (not considering the fully unknown DSD). Mordremoth didn’t have a living dragon champion that was allied to him, going off of both Malyck and the Pale Tree’s sylvari being not Mordrem Guard thus indicating that the cave was purified somehow and not a case of the Pale Tree being the sole freed tree; but despite this Mordy made one in his slumber by pure chance of Scarlet entering the machine.

This could easily explain the small gap between Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth’s rise. Primordus was also pushed late by the Great Destroyer’s death. If Primordus was “meant” to rise in GW1’s time, and Mordremoth was “meant” to rise when it did, then Primordus and the DSD likely awoke at the same time (give or take a decade) and Kralkatorrik was likely meant to have awakened ~50 years prior to the game, rather than 5.

That is an interesting theory and would explain why there are both lesser dragons and Elder Dragons on Tyria. Definitely possible, especially considering how power works in Tyria as far as death is concerned.

All this talk about Elder Dragons waging war on one another with their minion armies kind of makes me with the Guild Wars franchise had a strategy game out.

Minions probably disappear or are devoured maybe except the strongest ones (like shadow of dragon, tequatl, shatterer, glint etc)

Then dragons go to sleep for around 25000 years again until next cycle.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Ehecatl.9172:

If they all had an epic battle at the end of their feeding cycle there wouldn’t be as many dragons still around as they’d have killed one another.

This possibility does present one interesting question though:

What if originally there were more dragons?

Glint’s history as well as the lore of Cantha, Bone Dragons, Rotscale, and the appearance of both Zhaitan’s dragon-shaped champions and the Claws of Jormag indicate that there was once a race of dragons – or rather, many races of dragons.

It’s been a theory of mine for a while that the Elder Dragons might have been ‘greedier’ dragons that consumed more magic than others, lived longer, and grew more powerful than the others and slowly killed said others off – or twisting them into their slaves like Glint.

It would seem in the Elder Dragons’ best interest – given that their minions state things like eternal rule of their dragon and various other indications which point to the Elder Dragons not wanting to go back to sleep – to kill the other Elder Dragons.

But it makes sense for them not to make a move at first, because they’re weakened. If Zhaitan, for example, made a move against the sleeping Mordremoth of Kralkatorrik what would prevent Primordus or Jormag (or the DSD) from making a move on Zhaitan after he’s expelled a bunch of energy killing (and perhaps wakening unintentionally) Mordremoth and Kralkatorrik.

They probably see it far riskier to attack other Elder Dragons than to attack civilizations, so fighting the other ED is an ‘end-game’ for them. In this scenario.

Ehecatl.9172:

Granted maybe that is why Glint was the only Dragon Champion still active. After the dragons went to sleep she was the one that killed the other Champions to secure an advantage for Kraalkatorrik.

We don’t really know when Glint was freed, but it seems likely to be before Kralkatorrik fell asleep given that it was Glint that hid the four races (Mursaat fled the world so of the five they weren’t hidden).

And as Aaron said, we have knowledge of other Elder Dragons having powerful minions about before their awakening – the risen Giganticus Lupicus was corrupted during the last dragonrise; Drakkar who woke up Jormag; the Great Destroyer who was meant to wake Primordus.

Interestingly, Kralkatorrik is the only dragon to not have been woken by a minion or had a minion around while it was asleep (not considering the fully unknown DSD). Mordremoth didn’t have a living dragon champion that was allied to him, going off of both Malyck and the Pale Tree’s sylvari being not Mordrem Guard thus indicating that the cave was purified somehow and not a case of the Pale Tree being the sole freed tree; but despite this Mordy made one in his slumber by pure chance of Scarlet entering the machine.

This could easily explain the small gap between Kralkatorrik and Mordremoth’s rise. Primordus was also pushed late by the Great Destroyer’s death. If Primordus was “meant” to rise in GW1’s time, and Mordremoth was “meant” to rise when it did, then Primordus and the DSD likely awoke at the same time (give or take a decade) and Kralkatorrik was likely meant to have awakened ~50 years prior to the game, rather than 5.

Kralkatorrik’s minion was Glint. She simply betrayed him in the end

well if they won they go back and sleep after eating their share of magic

Killyox.3950:

Then dragons go to sleep for around 25000 years again until next cycle.

Your gap is too huge.

Approximately 10,000 BE – 11,325 years prior to GW2’s start – is the date the Durmand Priory attests to being the previous dragonrise.

Though various bits of evidence here and there attest to the previous dragonrise being in 3,000-1,000 BE.

Killyox.3950:

Kralkatorrik’s minion was Glint. She simply betrayed him in the end

While this is not false, this also doesn’t cover what I mean.

Glint hid the races from the Elder Dragons. This means that she was both given free will and betrayed Kralkatorrik before it went to sleep.

So by logic, Kralkatorrik should have left a different dragon champion around to wake him up on time.

Most likely scenario is that Kralk did just that, but Glint killed said champion at some point, leaving him without a champion to wake him up.

It’s also possible, though I suppose less likely, that Kraalkatorrik just didn’t notice Glint had betrayed him. If she was purified but kept working for him for some time after before developing an attachment to the lesser races it’s possible that the Elder Dragons don’t necessarily have 100% knowledge of what their champions are thinking and doing at all times, which means Glint could have betrayed Kraalkatorrik without him knowing so he wouldn’t raise another champion to replace her when he went to sleep. Then she’d have time to prepare for the next Dragonrise.

That would go against the established concept of the hive mind knowledge between dragons, dragon champions, and minions.

I wouldn’t say that there’s no room for that theory in what’s been established. It depends on what that actually entails. The specifics of the link, particularly the mental link, between the dragons and their minions is not very clear-cut, and there are several cases of conflicting information- and, of course, there’s a very healthy dose of unreliable narrator tossed over most of what we hear.

Simple…

They go to war with each other over what remains of their food magic.

Then they start going to war with each other in a complete stalemate unable to take each others magic they already consumed.

Then they get tired from spending their energy on fighting each other.

They then fall asleep again and wake up thousands of years later.

They repeat the cycle again.

I think they’d probably consume all the magic and sleep, maybe there’d be some skirmishes for each other’s and the scraps of magic by minions but huge scale dragon fights would probably be avoided.

On waking up I presume there’s a few triggers for a dragon to wake up:
1. They get immensely hungry and they need breakfast
2. Magic has been detected through either themselves (Mordremoth getting a whiff of the waylines) or through their minions (The Great Destroyer for example).

Argon.1563:

Considering the dragons’ goal is to consume all the magic in the world, if they hypothetically consume every tiny scrap of magic, all that will be left is their minions, which are also controlled and animated using magic, therefore the dragons simply just cover them in salt and pepper, and eat them before going to sleep for the next few thousand years.

That’d be my guess as well, or they simply rot away rapidly.

Wasn’t there a thing where dragons are just mindless and just want to eat and sleep like a normal animal instinct, but champions have will on their own and can strategize and plan attacks on civilizations.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Glint hid the races from the Elder Dragons. This means that she was both given free will and betrayed Kralkatorrik before it went to sleep.

So by logic, Kralkatorrik should have left a different dragon champion around to wake him up on time.

Most likely scenario is that Kralk did just that, but Glint killed said champion at some point, leaving him without a champion to wake him up.

I found this hypothesis interesting.
Why didn’t Kralkatorrik kill Glint after her betrayal?
Was Glint simply very good at hiding or could she have been powerful enough (with the races she hid helping her) to make Kralkatorrik think twice about fighting her?
After all she almost got him with DE too.
In this case why even bother creating a champion too weak to survive Glint?

But by Glint’s own account, she didn’t betray Kralkatorrik until well after he had gone into hibernation. To quote from EoD: “At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.” Emphasis mine. This would seem to conflict with the Forgotten path, but I’m hesitant to put less weight on Glint’s own statement than on that of a sylvari researcher who studied unidentified sources thousands of years after the fact.

Eh, but there’s this little issue that Glint was freed then hide the races from the Elder Dragons.

Are we to believe that Kralkatorrik had fallen asleep when Glint hid them from him?

Take note that the hiding bit comes from not only multiple NPCs, but also the devs. Given that Edge of Destiny was outsourced I’d be more willing to place on the devs + NPCs than the book.

Maybe, but I’d be more inclined to look for a way to reconcile the two statements- and given how little we know about how a dragonrise ends, there’s plenty of room for it. What if the dragons don’t all fall asleep at the same time? If the slumbers are separated out even as much as the rises, Kralkatorrik might have been one of the first to go, and both statements could still work. Or, if minions aren’t destroyed at the end, perhaps what Glint was sheltering them from was a world still very much overrun and turned against the races, even with the EDs sleeping again? Or the records left by the races distorted over time and overplayed Glint’s role, and the interviews, as they so often do, just reflect the flawed knowledge of the modern races? Or Glint had some agenda to lie to DE and, yes, did hide the last races before Kralkatorrik’s slumber. Any of those I’d find more satisfying than assuming ANet didn’t check over one of the most important reveals in the book before it was okayed to publish, outsourced or no.

We know for sure that both the Great Destroyer and Drakkar fell asleep too.
It’s fair enough to think that all dragon champions go to sleep with their masters or shortly after.
They’re useless awake on their own (preparation for the next cycle excluded).
It’s also hard to think that the races that survived the ED until then would need to hide from the minions left alive.

Glint sayed awake only because she was freed, I guess.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

To quote from EoD: “At first, for centuries, I defended my master. But I could hear his thoughts, too, and I knew that if he rose again, all good things would come to an end.”

This is interisting.
Was Glint able to hear the ED’s thoughts while hiding her’s from him?

Ok, I’m going totally crazy here, but if we assume that Glint was that powerful and that we don’t actually know what she really wanted, this can come out:

Glint was never a good dragon (even after she was freed) and she used the races of Tyria in her own fight against Kralkatorrik. “Hiding” the races was just keeping them close.
If the dragon would have attacked, she would have used them for fighting back and kill him, taking his place as an Elder Dragon.

Same thing she try to do with the help of DE.

The only difference is that Kralkattorik was actually aware of the races presence in the last cycle, so he didn’t dare to attack her.
In the present cycle he didn’t think Glint would have poweful allies, so he decided to attack.

And now we have a Glint’s egg, and we can guess she wanted to use her on child to take the place of Mordremoth.
With that she could have controlled the whole world.

We don’t know if being an elder dragon force you to go to sleep, but we know that Glint (while she’ve been a dragon champion) somehow managed to stay awake.

Can we really be sure she and her progeny always had and always will have good intentions?

I can’t wait 25000 years until they wake again and we can kill them in GW327.