Guild Wars 2

Shouldn’t most of the Risen army collapse due to the dragon’s death?

If the Risen navy is wiped out, doesn’t it mean we can go to Elona and Cantha now?

Lore-wise, its been cleansed and will take time to regrow, but Tequatl is still leading the Risen armies on Sparkfly Fen and causing trouble here and there.

Killing the master doesn’t seem to stop the minions, just disperse them.

In reality, its abandoned. I doubt they ever plan to revisit it for any reason. Even though this would be immensely cool and they have the technology to do multiple copies of a map now (e.g corrupted Orr and cleansed Orr), they probably won’kittens old content and that’s exactly what they view it as.

Same answer for Elona & Cantha.

Hannelore.8153:

Lore-wise, its been cleansed and will take time to regrow, but Tequatl is still leading the Risen armies on Sparkfly Fen and causing trouble here and there.

Killing the master doesn’t seem to stop the minions, just disperse them.

In reality, its abandoned. I doubt they ever plan to revisit it for any reason. Even though this would be immensely cool and they have the technology to do multiple copies of a map now (e.g corrupted Orr and cleansed Orr), they probably won’kittens old content and that’s exactly what they view it as.

Same answer for Elona & Cantha.

The corruption is cleansed, but healing would take a long, long time (agreeing with you).

However, Tequatl officially was killed off during the one living story season 1 chapter. Before that point he kept resurging, but then post Zhaitan dying he grew stronger, but got killed off for good (last I checked).

What killing Zhaitan did was simply make it much, much harder (if impossible) for NEW risen to be formed. But remember, we are talking about a nation’s worth of undead, ALL the wildlife of Orr, AND 106 years of collecting corpses from raids, the bottom of the sea, or advances.

Zhaitan had a lot of risen, and it will take a long while to clean them out.

Hannelore.8153:

Killing the master doesn’t seem to stop the minions, just disperse them.

I know spoiler at the end of HoT when Caithe is all “Oh I was afraid we’d not survive” I though “Seriously? Orr is still crawling with Zhaitan’s minions and he’s (apparently) dead”.

Kalavier.1097:

The corruption is cleansed, but healing would take a long, long time (agreeing with you).

However, Tequatl officially was killed off during the one living story season 1 chapter. Before that point he kept resurging, but then post Zhaitan dying he grew stronger, but got killed off for good (last I checked).

What killing Zhaitan did was simply make it much, much harder (if impossible) for NEW risen to be formed. But remember, we are talking about a nation’s worth of undead, ALL the wildlife of Orr, AND 106 years of collecting corpses from raids, the bottom of the sea, or advances.

Zhaitan had a lot of risen, and it will take a long while to clean them out.

I wonder of Palawa Joko can usurp Zhaitan’s position? I mean the Risen seem leader less and we’re talking about an undead lich here, so if he could control the Awakened why not the Risen?

CureForLiving.5360:

Kalavier.1097:

The corruption is cleansed, but healing would take a long, long time (agreeing with you).

However, Tequatl officially was killed off during the one living story season 1 chapter. Before that point he kept resurging, but then post Zhaitan dying he grew stronger, but got killed off for good (last I checked).

What killing Zhaitan did was simply make it much, much harder (if impossible) for NEW risen to be formed. But remember, we are talking about a nation’s worth of undead, ALL the wildlife of Orr, AND 106 years of collecting corpses from raids, the bottom of the sea, or advances.

Zhaitan had a lot of risen, and it will take a long while to clean them out.

I wonder of Palawa Joko can usurp Zhaitan’s position? I mean the Risen seem leader less and we’re talking about an undead lich here, so if he could control the Awakened why not the Risen?

No. Because Risen aren’t the same as undead exactly.

My guess is we will not hear anything about the state of Orr and the risen until we get the Scavenger’s Causeway, where we will not go until we go to the Crystal Desert to deal with Kralk and Joko (and even then it seems doubtful that Scavenger’s Causeway will be included).

I wonder of Palawa Joko can usurp Zhaitan’s position? I mean the Risen seem leader less and we’re talking about an undead lich here, so if he could control the Awakened why not the Risen?

I doubt it. Risen are dragon minions which look like undead but aren’t actually undead, at least not in the same way as the Awakened are.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t most of the Risen army collapse due to the dragon’s death?

If you paid attention during the final cinematic of the Personal Story, as well as the fact that Arah explorable dungeon takes place after Zhaitan’s death, you’d know that dragon minions do not fall when their master does.

This isn’t The Avengers where an organic army crumples down just because they lost contact with their mothership.

So no.

Slowpokeking.8720:

If the Risen navy is wiped out, doesn’t it mean we can go to Elona and Cantha now?

There’s more threats in Tyria to bother sending an expedition to a location that might potentially open hostilities.

Plus there’s the deep sea dragon still being a threat.

CureForLiving.5360:

I wonder of Palawa Joko can usurp Zhaitan’s position? I mean the Risen seem leader less and we’re talking about an undead lich here, so if he could control the Awakened why not the Risen?

Despite continuously being called undead, the risen are NOT undead. They’re dragon minions – most are downright mindless, and all are brainwashed. They lack free will, because their will is Zhaitan’s will. Even post-mortem.

It would be like asking why an elementalist cannot take control of icebrood.

Slowpokeking.8720:

If the Risen navy is wiped out, doesn’t it mean we can go to Elona and Cantha now?

Well, we can’t go to Elona or Cantha because there are two more dragon which are blocking our way. Kralkatorrik and Deep Sea Dragon :P

Cin.9386:

Slowpokeking.8720:

If the Risen navy is wiped out, doesn’t it mean we can go to Elona and Cantha now?

Well, we can’t go to Elona or Cantha because there are two more dragon which are blocking our way. Kralkatorrik and Deep Sea Dragon :P

Not just that but within Elona and Cantha there are also forces that prevent us from entering, namely a lich dictator and his army in the former continent and xenophobes in the latter continent. At least, that is the latest information we have on those continents.

Diovid.9506:

Cin.9386:

Slowpokeking.8720:

If the Risen navy is wiped out, doesn’t it mean we can go to Elona and Cantha now?

Well, we can’t go to Elona or Cantha because there are two more dragon which are blocking our way. Kralkatorrik and Deep Sea Dragon :P

Not just that but within Elona and Cantha there are also forces that prevent us from entering, namely a lich dictator and his army in the former continent and xenophobes in the latter continent. At least, that is the latest information we have on those continents.

And it would be stupid to go to Cantha/Elona then you have still Jormag and Primordus to fight. Long way until we will see Cantha/Elona….

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If you paid attention during the final cinematic of the Personal Story, as well as the fact that Arah explorable dungeon takes place after Zhaitan’s death, you’d know that dragon minions do not fall when their master does.

This isn’t The Avengers where an organic army crumples down just because they lost contact with their mothership.

So no.

So the pact left organized Risen Army behind, let them be able to regroup and corrupt the magical source again?

Arah dungeon didn’t have an army, just some remaining Risen and they were cleaned up in the process as well.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If you paid attention during the final cinematic of the Personal Story, as well as the fact that Arah explorable dungeon takes place after Zhaitan’s death, you’d know that dragon minions do not fall when their master does.

This isn’t The Avengers where an organic army crumples down just because they lost contact with their mothership.

So no.

So the pact left organized Risen Army behind, let them be able to regroup and corrupt the magical source again?

Arah dungeon didn’t have an army, just some remaining Risen and they were cleaned up in the process as well.

Trahearne says it will take a long time to clear out the remaining Risen.

The Pact did not just pull everybody from Orr, but the main force left for the jungle. There is still likely a sizable force in Orr for continued cleanup and security (and some airships). Note that Zhaitan corrupted the source, the minions can’t.

Kalavier.1097:

Trahearne says it will take a long time to clear out the remaining Risen.

The Pact did not just pull everybody from Orr, but the main force left for the jungle. There is still likely a sizable force in Orr for continued cleanup and security (and some airships). Note that Zhaitan corrupted the source, the minions can’t.

It doesn’t mean the Risen forces are still large, maybe they were very scattered.

If the Risen army is still large, how could the Pact hold it if the main force has left?

We don’t know, something like Teq might be able to do it.

Trahearne: The dragon’s undead minions that still infest Tyria will now gradually be exterminated.

Trahearne: One day soon, that plague will be but a memory.

He didn’t say it would take a long while, but the remaining Risen on Tyria, not Orr, would be slowly get cleaned up.

Slowpokeking.8720:

So the pact left organized Risen Army behind, let them be able to regroup and corrupt the magical source again?

Arah dungeon didn’t have an army, just some remaining Risen and they were cleaned up in the process as well.

The Pact never left Orr. They reduced their forces there two years later when they established Camp Resolve, but they kept a presence in Orr.

And I would disagree that Arah explorable, which features six risen high priest champions, the oldest known risen (Giganticus Lupicus) which comes from the previous rise, and at least one (Wraithlord) if not five other risen champions with hundreds of risen – and this just what’s left in the city alone, let alone elsewhere in the country or even continent – is a mere ‘some remaining risen’.

Keep in mind that aside from moving north, Zhaitan was pushing his army to patrolling to the Ring of Fire and invading southeast into Elona. That’s a lot of risen we never see that the Pact would slowly clean up.

Slowpokeking.8720:

If the Risen army is still large, how could the Pact hold it if the main force has left?

Because two years have passed for the Pact forces – in large – to lower the risen population from when we last saw it.

They didn’t disappear immediately – but that doesn’t mean that two years later they’re just as large of a force as we saw immediately after Zhaitan’s death.

Slowpokeking.8720:

He didn’t say it would take a long while, but the remaining Risen on Tyria, not Orr, would be slowly get cleaned up.

Last I checked, Orr was in Tyria too.

And Arah explorable mode does take place after Zhaitan’s death. As does Tequatl Rising – which means that even a year after Zhaitan’s death, the risen were still assaulting Sparkfly Fen.

How many risen there are since then is largely unknown. As is the progress of Orr’s cleansing. All we know is that there were a LOT remaining immediately after Zhaitan’s death – both in and outside Orr – and that they continued to fight and function as if Zhaitan lived. However, given that Zhaitan didn’t live, the source of their corruption – thus all corruption that they can spread – is a limited amount that’s ever dwindling as more risen are killed.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Pact never left Orr. They reduced their forces there two years later when they established Camp Resolve, but they kept a presence in Orr.

And I would disagree that Arah explorable, which features six risen high priest champions, the oldest known risen (Giganticus Lupicus) which comes from the previous rise, and at least one (Wraithlord) if not five other risen champions with hundreds of risen – and this just what’s left in the city alone, let alone elsewhere in the country or even continent – is a mere ‘some remaining risen’.

Keep in mind that aside from moving north, Zhaitan was pushing his army to patrolling to the Ring of Fire and invading southeast into Elona. That’s a lot of risen we never see that the Pact would slowly clean up.

The Pact was able to push into the Heart of DS even after the fleet was destroyed, which means it’s impossible for them to leave much forces in Orr. If there were armies of Risen left there is no way they could hold it.

And these weren’t some army in Arah, the heart of Orr and Zhaitan’s residence. All of these also got cleaned by the Pact soon after.

Because two years have passed for the Pact forces – in large – to lower the risen population from when we last saw it.

They didn’t disappear immediately – but that doesn’t mean that two years later they’re just as large of a force as we saw immediately after Zhaitan’s death.

Proof? The Pact was busy fighting other dragons as we know.

Last I checked, Orr was in Tyria too.

And Arah explorable mode does take place after Zhaitan’s death. As does Tequatl Rising – which means that even a year after Zhaitan’s death, the risen were still assaulting Sparkfly Fen.

And Arah was cleansed after Zhaitan’s death, Tequatl was killed as well.
These two are special cases. Arah was the heart of Orr and the Risen forces, they were cleansed soon after as well. Teq went into the deep and gathered strength, thus it could become a threat.

How many risen there are since then is largely unknown. As is the progress of Orr’s cleansing. All we know is that there were a LOT remaining immediately after Zhaitan’s death – both in and outside Orr – and that they continued to fight and function as if Zhaitan lived. However, given that Zhaitan didn’t live, the source of their corruption – thus all corruption that they can spread – is a limited amount that’s ever dwindling as more risen are killed.

Proof? From what we saw, the major forces of the Risen was taken down already in the war. Not to say the dragon was down as well.

Teq will always be there, because it’s event is timelocked.
So is Orr, the whole of Orr is timelocked.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Because two years have passed for the Pact forces – in large – to lower the risen population from when we last saw it.

They didn’t disappear immediately – but that doesn’t mean that two years later they’re just as large of a force as we saw immediately after Zhaitan’s death.

Proof? The Pact was busy fighting other dragons as we know.

False actually. There is a SMALL force of Pact up in the Frostgorge sound (but that’s mainly a vigil force) dealing with the claw of Jormag, and another force at the Shatterer location (both are almost, if not entirely vigil, and could be purely vigil operations and not Pact).

The Pact explicitly was stated to be building their forces up in preperation of a campaign against Kralk when Mordremoth rose. Said force was diverted to fighting the Jungle dragon instead.

And Arah was cleansed after Zhaitan’s death, Tequatl was killed as well.
These two are special cases. Arah was the heart of Orr and the Risen forces, they were cleansed soon after as well. Teq went into the deep and gathered strength, thus it could become a threat.

I’d hardly call Arah cleansed. We cleared a path to the objectives, not a full scale sweep and clear. Course, as my memory wants to say, Arah is huge. IIRC, in the story mode of Arah (now a campaign mission), after you defeat the main mouth of Zhaitan, pact forces land there and move into the ruins, seemed like it was connected to Arah. There is still the risen in the crystal desert, the rest of Orr, the oceans, Ring of Fire, etc.

Proof? From what we saw, the major forces of the Risen was taken down already in the war. Not to say the dragon was down as well.

Nope to clearing out the bulk of risen. Infact, a major objective on Orr was trying to stem the flow of corpses Zhaitan was receiving. With Zhaitan dealt with, the possibility of new Risen is either halted, or slowed to a crawl (with a dragon champion or a few acting as the source instead).

But still, you are talking about ALL the dead citizens and wildlife of Orr(and all the dead charr invaders). Then all the dead of the shipwrecks in the Orr area, then the dead from the shipwrecks caused by the rising of Orr. Now add in 106 years worth of collecting corpses and shipping them back to Orr on those barges.

Slowpokeking.8720:

The Pact was able to push into the Heart of DS even after the fleet was destroyed, which means it’s impossible for them to leave much forces in Orr. If there were armies of Risen left there is no way they could hold it.

And these weren’t some army in Arah, the heart of Orr and Zhaitan’s residence. All of these also got cleaned by the Pact soon after.

First off, there’s nothing that says the Pact couldn’t hold enough forces at Orr while assaulting Magus Falls. After all, while they were brand new and assaulting Orr, they were establishing a domain in the Far Shiverpeaks and fighting the FLame Legion – no doubt they also established themselves in the Dragonbrand, but we don’t see such given that all Dragonbrand-related maps are lower level than when the Pact’s formed (level 60) and thus ‘before the Pact’s time’.

Second off, you’re not reading the posts. I’m not saying there’s armies of risen in 1328 AE, when the Pact go off to fight Mordremoth. I’m saying there was still armies of risen in 1325 AE after Zhaitan’s death. In the 2-3 year timespan, the number of risen would have gone from “armies of risen” to “a large amount of scattered risen”.

Third off, you’re presuming that a leaderless hoard of mindless creatures is a true threat requiring large numbers of a united tactical and powerful force. You only need to establish a parameter for such a foe to keep them contained.

Fourth off, you presume the Pact is holding Orr. But as of Tequatl Rising (~1 year after Zhaitan’s death – whereas HoT is ~3), it was described as an ongoing invasion. This means that footholds are – just like during the fight with Zhaitan – being established and lost. The Pact’s purpose is to slowly eliminate the risen at that point, which means containment and not losing their own forces is top priority, not occupying the entire island.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Proof? The Pact was busy fighting other dragons as we know.

False. The Pact was preparing to take on Kralkatorrik. That preparation would be logistics and resource gathering. Not active combat.

Trahearne explicitly states at the end of the Personal Story that they’d have to hunt down the remaining risen, and Tequatl Rising one year after proves that the Pact are still combating the risen at that point.

But two years have passed since. And the Pact only began actively combating the Elder Dragons after The World Summit – until then it was just preparations for who to go after next (Kralkatorrik).

So let me throw your question back at you: do you have a source for the Pact actively fighting dragons prior to S2’s second half? After all, it is “as we know” so it shouldn’t be too hard for you to provide one.

Slowpokeking.8720:

And Arah was cleansed after Zhaitan’s death, Tequatl was killed as well.
These two are special cases. Arah was the heart of Orr and the Risen forces, they were cleansed soon after as well. Teq went into the deep and gathered strength, thus it could become a threat.

Arah wasn’t cleansed after Zhaitan’s death no more than the outskirts of Orr was. The cleansing of Orr would have been a slow process – as stated during The Source of Orr – which required ensuring Zhaitan and the risen didn’t recorrupt the places.

Tequatl was indeed killed, in 1326 AE, a year after Zhaitan, thus proving that even a year later risen were showing up in force outside of Orr.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Proof? From what we saw, the major forces of the Risen was taken down already in the war. Not to say the dragon was down as well.

What do you mean by “major forces”?

We took down the strongest minions and the minion factories, but we did not once encounter the armies marching on Elona or the risen forces on the Ring of Fire – both told to us to be happening from The Movement of the World.

We know there were forces we never saw. But what we don’t know is how large those forces are.

The only thing we know is that Zhaitan cannot create more risen. But this doesn’t necessarily mean that dragon champions – known for being capable of creating minions – cannot create more risen.

SirDrygan.1823:

Teq will always be there, because it’s event is timelocked.

Rox stated during Season 1 – in The Origins of Madness – that she, and many others, killed Tequatl. She even carried Tequatl’s tail around per Rytlock’s orders (which he then denied wanting).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Origins_of_Madness:_A_Moment's_Peace