What's the point of nobility ?

What's the point of nobility ?

in Lore

Posted by: Vilenia.3081

Vilenia.3081

A good friend of mine asked me what is the use of nobles in krytan society, and although we know what Kasmeer Meade told us poor players about the royal court and how to become a noble, we don’t see clearly what is the use of nobles, since the laws are made by the crowned ruler and the ministry, and the army is made of every castes. I suspect the nobility had a use more tangible a few centuries ago, but I can’t find any reference anywhere to help us.

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(edited by Vilenia.3081)

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Aaron Ansari.1604

Aaron Ansari.1604

In general, I suspect their ‘use’ is their concentration of wealth- the same use as any other upper class. The ability to sponsor enterprise and art shouldn’t be underestimated- see what Uzolan did with Caudecus’ backing, for instance. They also still seem to be the primary landowners , although that may well not apply to most of the ones clustered in the cities. They also seem to still be regarded as the natural leaders of communities, although some, like Arrin up there, are mostly the benign neglect kind. As a final cherry on top, it’s also possible they serve a vital role in tax collecting, which is how that army is funded.

Unfortunately, as all those possibles tell you, it’s not a subject that’s been very well fleshed out. Best single source is here , although it should be noted the interview was proven wrong on one account (the need to be noble to enter the Ministry). Other than that, it’s just a scarce hodgepodge of DR and Queensdale NPCs and early human personal story.

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What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: wouw.5837

wouw.5837

In my country we have a parliamentary monarchy and to this day there is still nobility. This is not unique and many European countries still have them.

Nobels in this day and age are comparable to the ones in Tyria, they don’t have any more political power than other voters ( or at least legally), but they often still have a lot of land.

This land was granted to an ancestor by the crown as a reward, with the land they also get a title: Duke, Count, whatever.

p.s. It could be the ministry is voted on by the Nobility and Kryta is a noble republic ( I am not sure) so in this case they would have some political power.

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What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Windu The Forbidden One.6045

Windu The Forbidden One.6045

we know what Kasmeer Meade told us poor players

Hey my Human characters are nobles, and anything but poor :P

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What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Old but relevant

Thanks for others writing this down

Can you tell us a little more about the nobility in Kryta? How important it is? For example, does something like Knighthood exist in Kryta?

Angel McCoy: I think the nobility is extremely important for Kryta. They’re basically the rulers; the king or queen, depending on who happens to be in charge at the moment, is the decision-making head of the entire nation.

Scott McGough: And then there’s the larger, deliberative body – at least in modern times – the Ministry, and that’s comprised almost entirely of nobles; lords and ladies, people who have rank and station within the Krytan society. They are also the decision makers. They’re not as powerful individually as the king or queen is, but they have a huge hand in shaping how Kryta operates, how Kryta goes forward and how Kryta interacts with other nations and its own people. So yes, the nobility has always been very important to Kryta. In past times the king or queen was the governmental, military and almost spiritual leader of the nation. Now that burden is shared more between Queen Jennah and the Ministry, but they are nobles and the nobles are still the first line of defense I should say when something arises, when a decision needs to be made.

So you need to be of nobility if you want to enter into the Ministry? Do you have to be born noble or is it possible to get ennobled in modern Kryta? Does Queen Jennah rise someone to Knighthood?

Scott McGough: Yes. And people can be ennobled, that’s a thing. Certainly the Queen can raise a common citizen up to the rank of nobility, give that citizen a title as a reward for their good service to the country or for something else. You can be made a noble, you can be ennobled but for the most part the older and richer families are the ones that are most established and the ones that are most plugged in to the channels of power.

There are different ranks of nobility, is it of any importance whether you are of high nobility or low nobility with which ranks you have in the Ministry? Does that play any role or is it dependent on your own abilities?

Angel McCoy: There’s undoubtedly some ranking in the Ministry, as well as in the nobility. The whole structure is set up as a kind of power hierarchy, however we haven’t delineated exactly what those ranks are. For the nobility we tend to follow a typical feudal model and knights, for the record, are pretty much our Seraph. The Seraph are the knights of Kryta. You don’t have to be noble to be a Seraph. You can be a commoner you can even be someone from the streets.

Scott McGough: The Seraph is much more of a police force/military organisation, where you advance based on your merit and how you perform. Logan attained his rank of Captain through his performance as a soldier. Logan is Captain of the Seraph, and if he became a lord he would be eligible for the Ministry. Speaking of ranks and titles, we saw in the personal story step the trial of Minister Julius Zamon we saw there are barons, there are lords and ladies. I think that the different titles in modern Tyria are kind of a carry-over from the old days, when there was more of a feudal system and a Baron was more in control of a larger share of land and then reported up to the King who was above him, or the Queen. Where as a Lord is simply someone who has the property their family owns, and the assets their family owns. Back in older times, perhaps King Thorn’s day, a baron would actually collect taxes on a larger plot of land in an entire region as opposed to a single acreage. So the different ranks these days aren’t as important, practically speaking, but then again that’s more of a carry-over from the previous eras when if you were a baron you were more important than a simple lord because you did more for the kingdom and for the monarch.

Angel McCoy: It’s kind of hard to be a land owner these days in Kryta, because of centaurs and everybody is so collected in Divinity’s Reach now where it’s safe. So the land owning element of that has sort of gone away but the ranking is still there.

What we’ve seen from the Ministry, looking at Minister Caudecus, is that there is corruption within the Ministry as well. Does this corruption spread very high within the ranks of the Ministers?

Angel McCoy: At this point, we’re not sure – or, well, we’re sure but you’re not sure – how high that corruption actually spreads and it’s something we’re going to explore later. Chances are that corruption spreads quite high because the Ministry is a fairly tight organisation, although it is political so there’s a lot of backstabbing and backroom deals. A lot of just one hand not talking to the other hand.

Scott McGough: There’s also a lot of ambition. A man like Caudecus thinks he should be making the decisions for Kryta. He doesn’t like the decisions Queen Jennah is making, in and of themselves and because he Caudecus is not the one making them. There’s a lot of noble ambition within the Ministry as these are the people who think they should be running the country so that often leads to them taking shortcuts, making side deals and backroom discussions like Angel said. They will do what is best for Kryta, but they will also do what is necessary to put them in that position to make the decision for Kryta as they genuinely believe they are the only ones capable of doing it.

So it’s very important for the king or queen to have people they can trust in order to defend their own power?

Scott McGough: Absolutely. That’s why you see the Queen so taken with Logan, as he is one hundred percent loyal, and that’s why you see the Queen relying so heavily on Countess Anise and the Shining Blade whom she knows she can trust without reservation. The Seraph under Logan and the Shining Blade under Anise are two of Queen Jennah’s most powerful allies and she knows to cultivate them and make sure that those relationships remain strong.

Kryta is a country with a lot of immigrants who came to Kryta from Ascalon or Cantha, from almost everywhere. How respected are nobles who migrated from these cultures? Do they have the same status as Krytan nobility?

Angel McCoy: Those people would be treated with respect but they wouldn’t really be part of the Krytan nobility. They would be there as diplomats, as emissaries or some sort of noble visitor. Even as they become residents, they may still be considered very respected and treated with a certain noble element of welcome-..

Scott McGough: Yeah, it’s kind of a parallel structure. If a baron came over from Elona – and i’m not sure Elona has barons – that person would be afforded every courtesy that a noble of Kryta would be afforded. They wouldn’t necessarily be allowed to make any decisions. As we saw in the personal story we have Minister Wi, who is of Canthan descent. He holds the position of Minister which I would say is analogous to ancient Rome, after it conquered a country and after that country had paid its taxes and behaved for a certain amount of time, the rulers of that country would be admitted into the Roman Senate so we had Roman senators who were German, who were British, who were African. Once you’ve proved you’re part of a functioning Krytan government these nobles would be allowed to participate in that government. It’s a case by case basis and it’s not an automatic thing. There’s the noblesse oblige where the nobles of one country extend that courtesy to nobles of another country. We’re all in the same brotherhood/sisterhood of nobles so we have to look after each other. We protect our power by protecting each other. So a noble from another country would be welcome in Kryta and would be treated with great respect as a dignitary in Kryta, but they would have to be a functioning part of Kryta before they were actually made a noble of Kryta or a Minister.

Though it should be mentioned they made an error in the interview, in that you do not have to be a noble to be minister (per in-game NPC, and Angel McCoy has stated that when interview and in-game dialogue counter each other, go with in-game).

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Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

What's the point of nobility ?

in Lore

Posted by: Vilenia.3081

Vilenia.3081

Thank you for your answers and warnings about inconsistencies. It is right that nobility is not a subject well fleshed out. But I suppose we can speculate a lot on what has been said during that interview.

I couldn’t find a french translation of this interview so I tried to translate it myself, hoping to help “future generetions” wondering if nobility has any use nowadays, apart from rubbing their money in my face

The Whitening Theory, or why Captain Theo Ashford had to die…

(edited by Vilenia.3081)

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

In my country we have a parliamentary monarchy and to this day there is still nobility. This is not unique and many European countries still have them.

In Africa too. Not too long ago they crowned the Xhosa King. Seriously there was a Xhosa King? I just googled it and we’ve got like 7-10 kings here!? Huh.

But still to answer the titular question. Probably the same as the real world, none at all. Just lying around living the good life while the peasants toil! Down with Ministry, down with Jennah! Kryta should be for the people by the people!

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Down with Ministry, down with Jennah! Kryta should be for the people by the people!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-b-zLawqa4vE/TaSWSQwHitI/AAAAAAAAAL4/2BLtZiA6kitten/s1600/SpreadAnarchy.jpg

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Yumiko Ishida.3769

Yumiko Ishida.3769

Yumiko is just a lady…as her family were originally immigrants from Cantha as far back as WiK in GW 1 250 years ago. The Ishida-clan fought for Kryta and in-turn, kept their nobility as the process goes in the article above. So her family eventually got to the point to be respected enough to be allowed into noble society and inner workings no questions asked, yet even though not in a state as bad as Kasmeer, they are pretty much in dire straights now.

The Ishida family is more a military family and as such— fights for the nation instead of lazing back and doing nothing. They are very queen-loyal which caused the Izushi, a rival clan Yumiko married into and had her husband take her name, thus getting them very jealous of her and exact bloody revenge and start a 20-year feud/clan war which ended in 1326 AE with Yumiko killing their last matriarch Ayaka Isuzhi-Ishida.

Many lives were lost on her side and all that is left is her sister and her daughter (my alts) and one assassin for hire (he was a ranger) of the Izushi who was not related to the clan.

Yumiko and her daughter usually does civil work for the communities in Kryta, usually charities every year around her birthday during Wintersday, which is the Canthan Calander month of Kainengtah 22 (Dec 22), or Season of the Colossus 355.

Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Donari.5237

Donari.5237

If you listen to the character creation cutscene dialogue, your noble opines that it is his/her duty to do well by the people of the city, to be a leader. You are shown tossing money to the crowd.

And then you end up with a downed ship of nobles in the jungle making their servants perform music for them and fluff their pillows.

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: Yumiko Ishida.3769

Yumiko Ishida.3769

Which is what I said in my post, not all nobles are the same. Mine adheres to the what it means to be noble; the word’s connotation itself and what the opening for the character creator last step and going to your lv 1 personal story starter instance says: “It is my duty to do well by the people of the city of Divinity’s Reach, to lead my people.” she does not abuse her power, nor sit idly by. If Yumiko was there and not part of the pact fighting her way there to safe them, she’d treat her servants fairly and possibly fluff her own pillow instead and have them sit under the tent with her when night falls.

Yumiko Emi Ishida 80 Ele, Hikari Kyoko Ishida 80 Guard TC-NA. Active RPer of NA megaserver.

What's the point of nobility ?

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Posted by: CureForLiving.5360

CureForLiving.5360

Down with Ministry, down with Jennah! Kryta should be for the people by the people!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-b-zLawqa4vE/TaSWSQwHitI/AAAAAAAAAL4/2BLtZiA6kitten/s1600/SpreadAnarchy.jpg

Oh I’m not proposing Anarchy. Replacing the strict authoritarian monarchy with anarchy would be (pun intended) anarchy. After we’re finished chopping off the heads of the bourgeoisie we implement a progressive system with the primary aim being economic and social parity of all Krytans.

If you listen to the character creation cutscene dialogue, your noble opines that it is his/her duty to do well by the people of the city, to be a leader. You are shown tossing money to the crowd.

And then you end up with a downed ship of nobles in the jungle making their servants perform music for them and fluff their pillows.

It’s only lip-service to keep the masses down and docile.