Guild Wars 2

I am sorry if someone has already covered this but I for the life of me can not find this information anywhere. It only mentions that it happens.

The first mention of them is at the time of the battle with the Great Destroyer (1078 AE). I would expect the first encounter with humans would be whenever the Ebon Vanguard discovered the Eye itself. The charr knew of them at least as far back as the Searing because it was the norn who allowed them to cut through the Far Shiverpeaks so they could then turn south to invade Kryta.

First discovering by whom?

The charr knew of them way before ‘Eye of the North’, because it mentions in ‘The Movement of the World’ that; “Many expected the initial Charr expansion through northern Tyria to become a tide of blood that would crash upon the Shiverpeaks, drowning Charr and Norn alike. The reality proved different. When the Charr reached the foothills, the Norn drove them back with a single crushing blow, completely decimating every warband sent against them.”

So, is the ‘initial Charr expansion’ when they first came to the area, before the humans even established Ascalon? Since the humans drove the charr out of Ascalon back in 100 BE (over 1400 years ago), this would mean the two races have known about each other for quite some time. On the other hand, if it refers to when the charr were expanding after the Searing, that would be only about 250 years ago.

The first one seems more likely, since it’d be odd if the charr and norn never interacted before then. And especially since the norn seem cool with the charr after the Searing – the Movement of the World mentions this: From this accord of mutual respect and strength arose a strange pseudo-alliance that has yet to be broken. For nearly two hundred years, the eastern border of the Shiverpeaks has been stable. The Charr are allowed passage through Gunnar’s Hold, and the lower canyons where the Norn had spread. In fact, during the Searing, the Norn allowed the Charr armies passage through the northern pass from Ascalon into Kryta, setting the stage for the Charr invasion of the central human lands."

So, the Norn were likely ‘discovered’ about 1400 years ago by the charr.

indeed it depends on the eye of the beholder. If you ask an average schoolboy when America was discovered and by who, the most likely answer is Christopher Columbus in 1492. But the truth is that thet continent had there long before that date, and people where living there.

With the Norn it is no difference. Though for most everyday Tyrians the Norn didn’t exist, we do know that the ebon vanguard knew bout them before we thew player knew them. Also like Son of Elia said, the norn, having their homeland border Norn-territory, new bout them for longer as well.

It is very likely that explorers or more likely traders have made reports to authority’s in Ascalon, Lion’s Arch and Arah, wich where considered not very shocking. They lived far up north these days and prolly where seen of little value nor a a danger.

We know the dwarves knew bout them as well. The moment we, the players find out bout them, we are introduced by the dwarf Ogden Stonehealer when he explains ’They’re called the Norn. They’re big, tough, and very, VERY bad-tempered. We may have to fight our way out.’

It is the events in the far shivepeaks during the eye of the north campaign were Humans, Asurans, Char, Norn and Dwarves fought together to the first signs of the rise of the elder dragons, is the time the Norn’s really came envolved by the movement of the world and it is from that day on that their name gets spoken more and more often. Not only in dusty archives, but also in stategy-meetings and in bardtales on the streets.

It also helps that, prior to Jormag, the Norn lived in the Far Shiverpeaks – way up north, more distant from the other nations. Because of Jormag, they’ve had to move south, and interact more with the other races.

The charr knew em for at least 200 years prior to Jormag’s rise (which was 1165 AE), and at most just more than 200 years prior to the Searing (which was 1070) depending on the interpretation of The Movement of the World (it’s not very clear – it simply mentions 200 years of “peace” on the borders, and charr being allowed through Gunar’s Hold (gone with Jormag’s rise) and mention they were let through during the Charr Invasion that began with the Searing).

Dwarves knew them some unknown amount of time before Eye of the North. Humans on large knew of them at 1078 AE (Eye of the North) – though the Ebon Vanguard would have first met them around 1072 most likely, and as said above there’s likely some explorers who met them. Anyone else: unknown.

Son of Elias.5420:

So, the Norn were likely ‘discovered’ about 1400 years ago by the charr.

I fail to see how you get such a huge number. Given the fact that the reason why the charr didn’t wipe out the norn was due to the war with humans, they had to meet sometime after 100 BE no matter what. The borders were said to be stable for nearly 200 years – this had to come after the conflicts, of course, and these borders couldn’t be stable after Jormag’s rise (since there would be no such borders there), and there’s no mention of any battles after said stability – and with the mention that the norn let charr through during the year of the Searing shows that the stability had to include 1070 AE – there’s only 95 years after the Searing before Jormag’s rise (however, it should be noted that Jormag’s rise and Zhaitan’s rise were switched between the Movement of the World and the game’s release, so one can thus argue about 150 years rather than 95) thus meaning that the “nearly 200 years” cannot be later than 995 AE (or 1020 AE) but no earlier than 870 AE. If you ask me, it’s around the last date – because the Flame Legion discovered the titans in roughly 870 AE, which would mean at that point in time in the war against humans is the best time the charr had to move into the Far Shiverpeaks, but most of their focus was still on humans.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Son of Elias.5420:

So, the Norn were likely ‘discovered’ about 1400 years ago by the charr.

I fail to see how you get such a huge number. Given the fact that the reason why the charr didn’t wipe out the norn was due to the war with humans, they had to meet sometime after 100 BE no matter what.

100 BE was 1400 years ago. The current year is 1325 AE.

Furthermore, there’s no ‘fact’ that the Charr didn’t wipe out the Norn because of Humans. In fact, that’s not mentioned anywhere in ‘The Movement’. It only says three things:

1 – When the Charr and Norn first met, the Norn won easily over warbands.
2 – If the Charr had devoted a Legion to the fight, the Charr would have won.
3 – The Charr didn’t because the two races developed a mutual respect.

There is nothing in there about a war with humans. In fact, humans aren’t even mentioned until it talks about the Charr being allowed passage into Kryta – which means they must have met before that, otherwise the Norn would have attacked those warbands, not let them through.

The only other reference is that the two races met during the charr’s “initial expansion through northern Tyria”.

Initial expansion. The first one. Which means it would have been back when the charr originally came to the area, long ago.

So you’re wanting to say that the charr and norn were having simple skirmishes for roughly 800 to 1,000 years? I find that unlikely, to be honest.

The Movement of the World says those three things, true, but it also says this:

For nearly two hundred years, the eastern border of the Shiverpeaks has been stable. The Charr are allowed passage through Gunnar’s Hold, and the lower canyons where the Norn had spread.

In fact, during the Searing, the Norn allowed the Charr armies passage through the northern pass from Ascalon into Kryta, setting the stage for the Charr invasion of the central human lands. Although this was not a sign of any alliance, it set the stage for the two races to live within a watchful peace.

This outright states that peace lasted for 200 years after the skirmishes before a certain date, which by reading this would be 200 years prior to the Searing – or alternatively 200 years starting with the Searing (unlikely – to me it sounds like a second period of peace began with the Searing).

So if the norn and charr did meet during or prior to humanity moving into Ascalon, they were in skirmishes for 800-1,000 years if not longer.

If the charr had no other threats, but fought for 200 years prior to the Searing at the earliest, why wouldn’t they send a legion west to squash the (potential) threat and enemy?

The only alternative to this would be if there was nearly 200 years of peace, then skirmishes began again, until peace returned with passage being allowed during the Charr Invasion.

Then what you’re suggesting is that the charr’s initial expansion through northern Tyria, the region they occupied from 100 BE to 1070 AE, that this initial expansion happened in 870 AE? Almost a thousand years after the humans drove them north out of Ascalon?

Konig Des Todes.2086:

So if the norn and charr did meet during or prior to humanity moving into Ascalon, they were in skirmishes for 800-1,000 years if not longer.

Probably, yes. A few paragraphs down, it mentions that “Occasionally, a warband (or a Norn hunter) might cross the line into the other’s land, only to be cut down without prejudice…but these skirmishes do not disrupt the accord reached by mutual consent between these nations.”

Which means that the skirmishes did continue after the two met, and continued for some time, but didn’t disrupt the two nations as a whole. So, most likely, the latest skirmish was 200 years prior to the Searing.