Where is the Orrian Army?

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Mechos.5640

Mechos.5640

A question for all you fine folks, and something that fits in the ‘Just Bugged Me’ category, but…

We see the native Orrian undead are mostly the civilian population. We see nobles, villagers, fishermen, farmers, servants, heck, even magicians and jesters. But what we don’t see anywhere is the Orrian army.

As far as I know, the only part of the Orrian Army that we ever meet, much less fight is:


The General in the Temple of the Forgotten God, and he isn’t garbed in anything to indicate what the Orrian army might have looked like.

Does anyone find this rather odd? Even if the army had been killed by the invading Charr, there would have still been the corpses to raise, since Zhaitan doesn’t seem to take issue with yanking out corpses from tombs and graves. So…

… where are they?

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102

Rehashed Jibe Tube.7102

I don’t think they had one. their plans to defend against the char invasion were to unleash a powerful spell that would defeat the invaders. It’s likely that they figured they could do the job of an army through purly magical means.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Mechos.5640

Mechos.5640

No, the Cataclysm was a last-ditch effort by Vizier Khilbron to (supposedly) save Orr. In reality, he was just doing what Abaddon wanted him to do.

It’s mentioned that the Charr had already beaten the Orrians back to the gates of Arah when it happened, and some mention of an Orrian army. Let me get the specifics.

From the Guild Wars Manuscripts:

“Hopes were high that the Charr would be defeated quickly. The Orrian army was the equal of any in Tyria, and the invaders had already fought a long battle against the Ascalons. But those hopes were dashed in less than twelve hours.”

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Azujax.2703

Azujax.2703

Perhaps the Charr (and, by extent, the Flame Legion) did something with their souls/bodies, just to be safe from possible priests of Grenth and the like? shrugs

It’s a good question.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

One of the Orrian History Scrolls in Shelter Docks of Malchor’s Leap states that King Reza had sent most of its armies out in an attempt to end the third Guild War.

Also, these guys: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Undead

Specifically the ones in Kryta. Those are Orrian undead with armor and weaponry, supposedly the remains of the army. Remember that two armies of undead came from Orr. The first had military-looking individuals (particularly the rangers and Necrid Horsemen), the second had the civilians.

Combine these two, you get that the Orrian armies returned to Orr to get killed and turned into undead by Khilbron (then a lich) over the year between the Cataclysm and the undead invasion on Kryta. That or the mentions of “few surviving Orrians” that weren’t in Orr during the Cataclysm would be the main army, and those seen in GW1 are the reserves left behind.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Mechos.5640

Mechos.5640

Hmm, it just strikes me as odd, Konig; namely, even if we take into account the presumption that the army that Khilbron sent to Kryta was largely military (something I would, actually, support), that still begs the question of why Zhaitan wouldn’t utilize them?

We can certainly see that during the War in Kryta, the undead are still up and about… and I think the Manuscripts mentioned that there were still the wandering undead in Orr?

I can understand why there might be a shortage of military in Orr, but a complete lack seems to baffle me. If Orr’s army was a rival to Ascalon’s (an army which, in death, manages to stretch over the entirety of the country), it seems reasonable that the force we saw in GW1 was only a small portion.

… though this also raises the question of why we don’t find any coral-infused Charr from the Cataclysm.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

How can Zhaitan take control of undead when they’ve been killed again, and are not in Orr (mind you, he does turn Mazdek who was buried in northern Gendarran Fields into a lich… however, we don’t know where remaining undead went since we don’t see any non-risen Orrian undead remnants in either Godslost Swamp, Caledon Forest, or Sparkfly Fen – the only places they were at in GW1 where we can go in GW2)).

Those wandering dead in Orr are probably the Orrian risen we see, considering many of them retained their personality and/or went about their normal lives.

Keep in mind that Orrians were highly magical. Where Ascalonians had to train vigorously for years to use magic well and even then only used it for where it was needed or best used, Orrians used it for trivial things like showing off their fishing catches in floating, glowing, orbs filled with water to keep them alive. In Shelter Docks in Malchor’s Leap you can find documents regarding this as well as another stating that Orr’s influence in the third Guild War made the casualties eclipse the previous two. As such, it is not unfathomable to believe that Orr’s army was small yet easily far more powerful than others twice, perhaps even thrice, their size. Imagine a unit of mursaat going against a full battalion of Ascalonian soldiers. Who would win? Same concept, but different magical preferences really.

The lack of Cataclysm charr undead is an interesting question. One I hoped to see answered in GW2. But the lack of an Orrian army is not so.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Mechos.5640

Mechos.5640

Well, again, Konig; I’m not so much arguing that there are too little Orrian army members. I’m arguing that there is, point blank, all of one encountered in the entirety of Orr.

Even discounting the standing army at the time of the Cataclysm, we’ve seen that Zhaitan has no problem with raising long-dead corpses to his service (See: Cathedral of Eternal Radiance, and the various princes and [spoiler] Eyes [/spoiler])

Again, it’s the fact that we see none of the Orrian army. Even if they had a small army, surely they would have kept some in reserve back at home?

It’s one of those ‘just bugs me’ things.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Superpal.4961

Superpal.4961

Konig found you a nice link about the undead in GW1, and they were all from Orr. Supposedly, this was the entirety of the army that was raised by the Lich. So, they are out of the picture for Zhaitan in GW2, if we go by the theory that the undead can only be raised once.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Mechos.5640

Mechos.5640

Well, yes. But that still doesn’t raise the question of the ones that existed in tombs/graves/etc., which would’ve been blocked off from Khilbron since they were underwater. Again, since Zhaitan raiseskittennear everything it can find, there would have to be some elements of the Orrian army that were raised at some point, statistically speaking. A nation that exists for 1000 years, as the centre of human culture, doesn’t seem the type that wouldn’t have large military gravesites.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

How do we know Khilbron was blocked off from underwater graves? He might not have needed to breathe after becoming a lich…

Still, there is another possibility – that the remains of the Orrian military are what Zhaitan used for his initial pushes outwards, and they’ve been destroyed over the centuries.

To those who think Scarlet hate means she’s succeeded as a villain:
People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Konig Des Todes.2086

Konig Des Todes.2086

Well, yes. But that still doesn’t raise the question of the ones that existed in tombs/graves/etc., which would’ve been blocked off from Khilbron since they were underwater. Again, since Zhaitan raiseskittennear everything it can find, there would have to be some elements of the Orrian army that were raised at some point, statistically speaking. A nation that exists for 1000 years, as the centre of human culture, doesn’t seem the type that wouldn’t have large military gravesites.

Except that underwater wasn’t blocked off to Khilbron. That’s actually how the undead invaded Kryta in gw1 – by walking beneath the waves. During the GW1 mission D’Alessio Seaboard, you see the undead spawning at the water – this is to show that they’re coming from beneath the waves.

Undead don’t need to breath, so why would something being underwater prevent an undead?

It’s possible that we do see ancient Orrian warriors, but they’re just not called “Orrian Warrior” or the like, and they don’t have armor.

Also, we see more than one “Admiral” that has a coral-covered body. One assaults the Order of Whispers (others possibly assault the other order bases) and a few are in the retaking of Claw Island.

And actually, large military graveyard does sound highly unlikely among Orrians. Simply because they’ve been a peaceful nation over the millennium (GW1 Prophecies manual states this – and by the sounds of the Orrian History Scrolls, they kept out of all major wars in Tyria until the third Guild War, which they only joined due to fighting in their streets and attempts to stop the war). It might be possible that their army consisted of militia alone, given their magical prowess.

Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.

Where is the Orrian Army?

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Posted by: Lonami.2987

Lonami.2987

I find it weird, too. I expected to find some kind of old barracks, with undead Orrian military, but well. Maybe they were converted to those undead with underwater looks, to become more efficient.

It’s worth to note there’s no undead charr, either, and Orr sank with them all above, in the middle of the invasion.

I’m sad we didn’t get to see any organized forces, the armies of Zhaitan are just “charge!” guys, and we don’t see seasoned soldiers holding positions, or advancing as regiments.

Even if they were destroyed after Zhaitan’s first clashes, you’d think some survived, or stayed as an elite guard in case of an invasion.

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