The only suicide I know of is malchor. We have seen many examples of self sacrifice. We have seen countless murders. This is extremely troubling for the concepts underlying many of the races.
The books that have no esrb rating are similarly blase. They acknowledge within them the dread of dying true deaths not in the presence of clerics/monks. But from what I have surmised no one kills themselves either in the face of massacre upon massacre.
The true fantasy to the GW franchise is how it portrays mundane and complex behaviors. It’s lore is more complex than the Harry Potter franchise yet it makes that series look m rated by comparison.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?
… You sound like one of those SJW types who require boxes to be ticked on a list of social angst before any fictional work/world/character can be considered “good”.
(edited by Embolism.8106)
Well Daniel suicide is seen as kind of taboo and most people don’t like it. But to answer you questions…
1. The nightmare court physically and emotionally tortures people and yet none of their victims kill themselves. This probably stems from the Ventari tablet tenets. (Mostly the first 2.) I. Live life well and fully, and waste nothing II. Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes stronger roots. But that is kind of a stretch.
2. Centaurs break apart human families on a weekly basis. The humans in gw2 are a strong and proud race. Even though the centaurs have butchered their loved ones and taken their land they still fight back. The death of a loved one should not make you take your life it should make you feel not only pain and sadness, but also joy to know that they are in a better place.
3. The gladium are social isolated. The gladium may be social outcasts but that is no reason for them to take their own life. Though they have lost their warband They still have the choice of joining a new one.
4. The havroun of owl has it’s life devotion murdered. Sure the spirit of owl was killed and the havroun of owl no longer has a spirit to tend they can still keep the legacy of owl going or move on and do something else the havroun of owl really has no reason to kill themself either.
5. Taimi never once expresses what she would do if she knew her disease would kill her. Taimi knows that her disease could potentially kill her but, she is still just a child and only her leg has been affected by the disease so far. She is always a very bright kid she may find a cure for her disease. Even with her disease she is very upbeat and refuses to let people take pity on her.
6. The failures of academics like Zinn never get them down. If the asura let the failures of one asura get them down then they probably would of died ages ago. Instead of letting the failures of one asura get them down they take the failed idea, they toy with it, tweak it, and improve on it. You can not have success without failure. Now with all that being said, no one should ever take their own life. No matter how bad a situation may seem or how bad something is it will always get better. Always.
EDIT: I forgot to mention Malchor. Malchor took his own life mostly out of frustration, and anger because he couldn’t be with the godess Dwayna. Plus the guy was going crazy after looking at all the gods and goddesses and making sculptors of them.
(edited by spartan.9421)
It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.
Just because it’s not shown , doesn’t mean it doesnt happen.
And one of the reasons that it may not be shown is exactly what others said above me; it is stilla topic that’s taboo.
At the time there is no reason for the topic to be shown in the general story or the side story because it’s quite irrelevant.
It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.
i doubt depression is unheard of on tyria (from an inuniverse perspective) it’s just not something that is shown to the players out-of-universe. But i do believe you are correct on one of the reasons why it doesn’t show up, it’s a very delicate topic.
(edited by dsslive.8473)
It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.
Trahearne would like to have a word with you about depression not existing in Tyria.
The thing is that depression does exist in Tyria, but ArenaNet has not had it lead to suicide.
You need to keep in mind that depression can lead to more places than just suicide – just like suicide can have more causes than depression.
I thought we had that covered by throwing ourselves to our death in every imaginable deadly endeavor. Adventurers are wildly suicidal by nature.
Then the transporter grid/Asuran “waypoints” just spew out the next facsimile of the long dead hero and off we march again to our next demise.
It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.
Trahearne would like to have a word with you about depression not existing in Tyria.
The thing is that depression does exist in Tyria, but ArenaNet has not had it lead to suicide.
You need to keep in mind that depression can lead to more places than just suicide – just like suicide can have more causes than depression.
It is a weird way they show us the world. They allow topics like murder and torture, but not topics like depression and suicide. We are not shown grief to the degree you would expect.
We are not shown trahearnes depression as much as we read about it.
We so little see outburst of anger. Screams of anguish.
The voice acting done on the revenant stances eclipses many parts of the game.
I think it’s quite horrible to ask “Where are the suicides ?”… Of course, the Tyria is fighting Dragons, and some Humans get killed by Centaurs, etc… But, just because this is a game, people shouldn’t ask these questions.
And yes, “Just because it’s not showndoesn’t mean it doesnt happen.”, as Dsslive said.
I know in France the game is rated +12. 12 y.o is quite young to hear about suicides and stuff.
And last but not least : we don’t really need to hear about suicide. It’s not like it’s gonna change the story or whatever.
There is suicide in GW2. There are two examples I can think of off the top of my head. One is Malchor. Commits suicide because he could never see Dwayna again. He also suicides again as a ghost. Eir also was going to commit suicide in a Norn way.
“Hail, mighty hero!
I don’t know how to tell you this, but I am afraid that Eir Stegalkin has been in a dark mood of late. Apparently her recent meeting with Zojja has affected her badly, and I (and others) are afraid that she plans to do something rash, to “go out as a hero”. I have heard this from Caithe, who has been following the norn northwards into Frostgorge Sound. There, a great sanctuary ship of the kodan, the Honor of the Waves, is floundering, as a result of the attacks of Jormag’s minions. Both Caithe and I fear that Eir is looking for a battle too big for herself, and I said that you would catch up with them to help Eir.
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience,
—Your Herald"
GW universe has some actually more disturbing things if you think deeply.
And yes, “Just because it’s not showndoesn’t mean it doesnt happen.”, as Dsslive said.
It’s a fictional world, if they don’t show us when it happens or don’t mention it at all, we have no reason to believe it does.
And yes, “Just because it’s not showndoesn’t mean it doesnt happen.”, as Dsslive said.
It’s a fictional world, if they don’t show us when it happens or don’t mention it at all, we have no reason to believe it does.
We don’t explicitly see people having sex or pooping either, but it’s reasonable to assume it happens all the same. There are some basic facets of the human condition you can assume is going on off-screen even if it isn’t shown outright.
Unless the lore outright states no one in Tyria ever commits suicide then we have to assume it’s something that can and does happen. Especially when we have Malchor having already done it in lore.
For a more simple solution perhaps , the heroes common people in the Tyrian cosmology possess a strength of will strong enough to not commit suicide. Maybe even no one writes or speaks of those weak souls who do commit suicide because it is shameful and no meaningful lessons come from suicide other than don’t do it.
I think it’s quite horrible to ask “Where are the suicides ?”… Of course, the Tyria is fighting Dragons, and some Humans get killed by Centaurs, etc… But, just because this is a game, people shouldn’t ask these questions.
And yes, “Just because it’s not showndoesn’t mean it doesnt happen.”, as Dsslive said.
I know in France the game is rated +12. 12 y.o is quite young to hear about suicides and stuff.
And last but not least : we don’t really need to hear about suicide. It’s not like it’s gonna change the story or whatever.
12+ Is not young enough to hear about that concept? Especially when the game tells us of murder and torture? The suggestive themes limit is for sexual content.
This is all part of a trend in this game to not show an emotional spectrum.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
“It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of,”
This is not true. What is true, is that it is not the main focal point of any story, but it is there through ambient dialogue and NPC conversations. In every one of the major cities, you can speak to people on how the Dragons and other threats affected their lives. Asura that cannot experiment anymore for they feel it is all futile. Peacemakers living in paranoia and anxiety of another Golem Uprising. Norn who develop extreme claustrophobia. Sylvari who watch the Sea of Sorrows for Zhaitan to an obsessive degree.
You never go on a quest to save someone from these things, but they are there.
“It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of,”
This is not true. What is true, is that it is not the main focal point of any story, but it is there through ambient dialogue and NPC conversations. In every one of the major cities, you can speak to people on how the Dragons and other threats affected their lives. Asura that cannot experiment anymore for they feel it is all futile. Peacemakers living in paranoia and anxiety of another Golem Uprising. Norn who develop extreme claustrophobia. Sylvari who watch the Sea of Sorrows for Zhaitan to an obsessive degree.
You never go on a quest to save someone from these things, but they are there.
Some examples would be appreciated. Saying you are disenchanted is not the same as depressed. Neither is paranoia or claustrophobia indicative of depression.
How often is suicide shouted out in the real world?
It happens on a daily basis, and yet most people don’t know about it, because it is such a natural part of the world.
And yes, depression rather clearly DO exist in Tyria, but as have been said earlier in the thread depression doesn’t have to lead to suicide (and quite often do not, in the real world).
(edited by lordkrall.7241)
“It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of,”
This is not true. What is true, is that it is not the main focal point of any story, but it is there through ambient dialogue and NPC conversations. In every one of the major cities, you can speak to people on how the Dragons and other threats affected their lives. Asura that cannot experiment anymore for they feel it is all futile. Peacemakers living in paranoia and anxiety of another Golem Uprising. Norn who develop extreme claustrophobia. Sylvari who watch the Sea of Sorrows for Zhaitan to an obsessive degree.
You never go on a quest to save someone from these things, but they are there.
Some examples would be appreciated. Saying you are disenchanted is not the same as depressed. Neither is paranoia or claustrophobia indicative of depression.
Well there is a story mission (or rather a series of story missions) where you lose an allied asura because he went back to make sure the bomb went off on the risen ship and lost his life doing it. One of the next mission we go deliver the bad news to his partner/wife/whatever, who then , from immense sadness runs off.
“Pact Medic Ceera: Leave me alone—just go! You should have saved Tonn, or let me die. That way, at least we’d still be together.”
After you rescue her from the risen that attacked her.
She’s quite clearly sad to the point of not wanting to live anymore, the thing is, it didn’t lead to us letting her kill herself, but it is represented that suicde and depression exist in tyria. And even if it wasn’t, i don’t have to see someone use the outhouse to know they still do.
plus ofc the malchor event that explains his whole deal. He clearly succeeded tho and in his event chain i’d find it hard not to call him depressed, about losing dwayna, about failing dwayna.
(edited by dsslive.8473)
Many things can cause someone to commit suicide. Depression, paranoia, and claustrophobia are all recognized causes of suicide.
Gurtt: Can’t work on projects for weeks, hardly leaves homes, socialising is extremely difficult. Can’t think of anymore other than the dragons. Becomes more afraid every day. Definitely sounds like depression and anxiety.
Dearthair: Compulsive patrol for dragons every day. Has given up hope of a good outcome. Finds it pointless to resist. Will only fight so she may die with honor. Sounds like depression to me.
Bann: Norn who was injured in a hunt. Cannot be healed. Cannot hunt anymore. Now feels useless. Feels like he is less than he was before. Sounds like insecurities that can cause depression.
Then there are smaller things:
1. Peacemaker Officer: No, for more Peacemakers. This imbalance in power terrifies me.
2. Prospector: I don’t [like Hoelbrak]. The buildings block the wind. I feel like a caged animal.
3. Crusader Deborah: This endless wasteland is starting to get to me. Half the time I can’t sleep, the other half…I don’t want to wake up.
Also, I don’t think you can reasonably say that fear of race-ending Dragons is just disenchantment.
We are not shown trahearnes depression as much as we read about it.
Against the Corruption shows the pinnacle of Trahearne’s depression in the form of bipolarity.
Then there’s the examples Plagiarized mentioned. And that’s not all of them.
To add onto the list of depression in GW2: Turbulent Seas – a kodan who lost his son in an early icebrood attack, and now waits for the day he dies.
->What will you do now?
I will follow the others, off the sanctuary and away from the waters. I will trudge along, offering myself for the world, until the day when my cub and I are reunited at Koda’s feet.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
We are not shown trahearnes depression as much as we read about it.
Against the Corruption shows the pinnacle of Trahearne’s depression in the form of bipolarity.
Then there’s the examples Plagiarized mentioned. And that’s not all of them.
That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.
Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.
Bipolar disorder can be a symptom of depression btw. Yes, they are different but that doesn’t mean they cannot cause one another.
The part I refer to is this, right after the ritual fails, where Trahearne goes from super depressed to super motivated. The voice acting made it more so than the dialogue:
Trahearne: No! We were so close! By the Pale Tree…it’s impossible. All this, all these lives, wasted. All for nothing.
Laranthir of the Wild: Trahearne, didn’t you see? The cleansing worked! For a moment, the spirit of the land rose up like a breath of wind.
<Character name>: We all felt it. It was as if Orr’s own soul was fighting to be free. The ritual was a success.
Trahearne: But the absolution didn’t hold. Though sacred, the Royal Tombs weren’t strong enough. This isn’t the heart of Orr. I wonder if such a “heart” still exists.
<Character name>: Wait…remember the vision that the Pale Tree gave us? An Orrian king spoke of “the Source.” Maybe that’s something that can help.
Trahearne: You’re right. The Source of Orr…yes! I think I remember hearing about such a thing. A priestess of Grenth, and a shaman of the norn spoke of it.
And for the record, no general populace will ever be highly depressed. Soldiers, refugees, sure. But while the game is full of hostiles for us to kill and conflicts for us to fight, the entire continent of Tyria isn’t in perpetual strife down to the individual square mile in lore.
Also, me, dsslive, and Plagiarized pointed out 9, not 5, examples. And that’s not all of them, as we have both pointed out, but some of the more obvious ones.
That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.
Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.
Depression could be a result of bipolar disorder.
And since you keep ignoring the questions I will give it another try: How often in the real world do people shout about depression and suicide?
Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.
You seem to look at lore differently than I do. I assume, you see these examples as the only instances. If I gave 5, then there must be 5. But I view them as what could happen.
Look at it this way from an asura named Budge: “My partner and I are pondering what to name our newborn progeny. We’re calculating all possible numerological and geometric combinations for optimal success.”
Now, knowing what we know about Asura, would this type of naming be a one-off case, or is it something that occurs throughout their society. Maybe not always, and maybe not even the most common, but it is there.
So, the same applies to the examples. If one norn can get depressed from an injury then why can’t others? If one asura develops anxiety because of the Dragons, then why can’t others?
That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.
Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.
Depression could be a result of bipolar disorder.
And since you keep ignoring the questions I will give it another try: How often in the real world do people shout about depression and suicide?
No one is referring to shouting about anything.
You as a character speak to many many people over the period of playing the game. There is a disparity in the people you interact with showing an amount of mental illness or even extreme emotion proportional to population of the sizes presented in game.
@konig I encourage you to read up on what bipolar disorder is. Your example and assertion of causality incorrect. Depression without mania is not bipolar disorder.
And how often, in the real world, do you find people openly talking about depression and suicide?
And how often, in the real world, do you find people openly talking about depression and suicide?
If you were a person who visits as many people as the player character I would say quite a lot. Given that you are a military commander that rate of suicide would be part of any briefings on troop morale given the high prevalence of ptsd. This game was written in the US but it’s concept of military readiness is quite bizarre.
I’m not saying they have to go full game of thrones but a little more seriousness to the story would be much appreciated. Although if they figure it will be too impressionable I understand.
But depression and suicide is still something that is talked very little about in the world at large. Sure it might be some extra in the military due to reason (it is however very silly to compare a modern military with one that is more comparable to one from 500 years ago). This is not a real-life military simulator, it is a fantasy game.
There is plenty of seriousness in the story, you just refuse to actually see it. There have been plenty of examples in this thread alone that you seem to just outright ignore.
I really wouldn’t be surprised if the next thread OP makes is about the lack of sexual assault in GW2.
So you feel dissatisfied with the narrative of this game because not enough characters kill themselves? Thats just a little bit worrying in all honesty.
This is an online game. Not a social narrative. ArenaNet is progressive in the content that they make as a way to push more representation within games, as they have done with female protagonists, homosexual characters and disabled characters within the franchise, however, if ArenaNet was seen to be encouraging suicide, it would not only damage their reputation, but also annoy half the playerbase, since Eir collectively kittened off a chunk of us with her whining about how she was going to kill herself.
There are obviously a lot of dark themes in this game, such as racism, terrorism and genocide, but because of how death is used in creating narrative, be it written story, film, TV show or video game, it has to have impact, and having loads of characters killing themselves left, right and centre isn’t going to have an impact unless its built up, which I doubt ArenaNet wants to go to the effort of doing.
When I turn on the television in the morning, and I see on the news that somebody has killed themselves, I don’t shed a tear for them. I didn’t know them. Life goes on, so why would I care about groups of nameless pact soldiers killing themselves due to PTSD?
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
But depression and suicide is still something that is talked very little about in the world at large. Sure it might be some extra in the military due to reason (it is however very silly to compare a modern military with one that is more comparable to one from 500 years ago). This is not a real-life military simulator, it is a fantasy game.
There is plenty of seriousness in the story, you just refuse to actually see it. There have been plenty of examples in this thread alone that you seem to just outright ignore.
You mean the now nine examples of it that people can even think of. I’ve read them, I digested them, I was not satisfied by them.
It is a fantasy game but that does not mean that the interactions we have with people have to be fantastical.
You have people experiencing a godzilla situation yet a happy populace.
There is a difference between you taking about depression vs you as a player character physically visiting countless individuals and only a minimum express any anguish or concern.
So you feel dissatisfied with the narrative of this game because not enough characters kill themselves? Thats just a little bit worrying in all honesty.
This is an online game. Not a social narrative. ArenaNet is progressive in the content that they make as a way to push more representation within games, as they have done with female protagonists, homosexual characters and disabled characters within the franchise, however, if ArenaNet was seen to be encouraging suicide, it would not only damage their reputation, but also annoy half the playerbase, since Eir collectively kittened off a chunk of us with her whining about how she was going to kill herself.
There are obviously a lot of dark themes in this game, such as racism, terrorism and genocide, but because of how death is used in creating narrative, be it written story, film, TV show or video game, it has to have impact, and having loads of characters killing themselves left, right and centre isn’t going to have an impact unless its built up, which I doubt ArenaNet wants to go to the effort of doing.
When I turn on the television in the morning, and I see on the news that somebody has killed themselves, I don’t shed a tear for them. I didn’t know them. Life goes on, so why would I care about groups of nameless pact soldiers killing themselves due to PTSD?
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
But depression and suicide is still something that is talked very little about in the world at large. Sure it might be some extra in the military due to reason (it is however very silly to compare a modern military with one that is more comparable to one from 500 years ago). This is not a real-life military simulator, it is a fantasy game.
There is plenty of seriousness in the story, you just refuse to actually see it. There have been plenty of examples in this thread alone that you seem to just outright ignore.
You mean the now nine examples of it that people can even think of. I’ve read them, I digested them, I was not satisfied by them.
It is a fantasy game but that does not mean that the interactions we have with people have to be fantastical.You have people experiencing a godzilla situation yet a happy populace.
There is a difference between you taking about depression vs you as a player character physically visiting countless individuals and only a minimum express any anguish or concern.
Sorry but half of the story shouldn’t be all about ppl killing themselves, there are plenty of examples of depression and mental issues, that’s enough. These examples that are put into the game are to show that these things exist in tyria, just because you’ve only seen 9 examples, doesn’t mean that those are all there are of them. their are millions of citizens you do not get to talk too, or interact with, because it would be impossible to put that many characters in game, but they exist in lore. Anet shows of examples of the type of attitudes that exist , including those of depression and other mental issues, but that’s all they are, examples of it being in tyria.
It existing in tyria and being spread around not jsut the mayor races but even the minor once, doesn’t need to be shown by making half to ppl you meet being depressed and suicidal. In the end, the game is about people coming together to fight of the evil threatening their world, that kind of message isn’t exactly filled with nothing but depressed people.
Anet has shown examples of these issues existing, meaning they exist in a much larger form in tyria amongst all races and amongst the millions of citizens we do not get to meet. We met only a single transgender person, and i believe 3 homosexual relations, does that mean that those are the only ones exisiting in tyria? no, ofc not, the same applies to this.
Tl;dr Just because it doesn’t fill up half of your story, does not mean it doesn’t exist within the universe.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
Actually you are a pact commander in the sense that you are a very trusted member of the pact, but you don’t command squads, you don’t go to meetings.
The only thing we’ve done so far that was in any way related to more of a political figure was to get the leaders of all races together.
But outside that, you go out with your own team and work with, but mostly outside the pact, doing the jobs they can’t
Our character is not going to be sitting in a meetin on how to handle ptsd or to discuss high suicide rates amongst military personel.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.
Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.
and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.
Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.
and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.
If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.
@dss
I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..
What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.
The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.
Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.
and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.
If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.
@dss
I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..
What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.
The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.
I didn’t mean literally half of the story, i was using hyperbole to prove a point.
Let me try to put it different; when i say “half of the story doesn’t have to be about dealing with suicide/depression” i mean that while there should be examples of it existing (examples like the ones already provided) it shouldn’t have to be overly prominent to the world when it doesn’t fit the narrative that is being used, concerning the overall story, it’s about coming together to untie against a stronger foe, to find strenght in your allies, friends and loved ones. Yes, if you talk to as many people as the player character you’ll find some stories of people dealing with suicidal thoughts or depression, which you do too as to the examples given by plagiarised of random npcs all around the world displaying these mental issues.
Is there not enough exposure concerning transgender people because we only know of one npc? Are there no other homosexual couples because we only know of 3? It’s impossible to put millions of ppl into the game each showing their individuality and issues they deal with, so they use certain npc’s to display that those issues do exist within tyria , that those relation ships exist. And that’s all they can do.
Could there be more exposure to depression/suicide? possibly, but would it add to the game? i’m not sure.
(edited by dsslive.8473)
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.
Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.
and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.
If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.
@dss
I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..
What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.
The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.
I didn’t mean literally half of the story, i was using hyperbole to prove a point.
Let me try to put it different; when i say “half of the story doesn’t have to be about dealing with suicide/depression” i mean that while there should be examples of it existing (examples like the ones already provided) it shouldn’t have to be overly prominent to the world when it doesn’t fit the narrative that is being used, concerning the overall story, it’s about coming together to untie against a stronger foe, to find strenght in your allies, friends and loved ones. Yes, if you talk to as many people as the player character you’ll find some stories of people dealing with suicidal thoughts or depression, which you do too as to the examples given by plagiarised of random npcs all around the world displaying these mental issues.Is there not enough exposure concerning transgender people because we only know of one npc? Are there no other homosexual couples because we only know of 3? It’s impossible to put millions of ppl into the game each showing their individuality and issues they deal with, so they use certain npc’s to display that those issues do exist within tyria , that those relation ships exist. And that’s all they can do.
Could there be more exposure to depression/suicide? possibly, but would it add to the game? i’m not sure.
You are asking for statistically relevant demographics. Yet grief/rage are not demographics. Transgender and homosexual individuals are a human genetic mutation, there is no reason to assume that Tyria has the same level in the populace to produce a comparable number. In fact the majority we see are sylvari and they have no dna to speak of. Somehow this topic of suicide came to mental illness or depression, and away from topics of grief/rage.
It is my hope with HoT the game becomes darker than it currently is. But given the appearance of Swordmaster Faren I don’t have much hope.
Are there any quests where you rescue Asura from the Nightmare court?
I really wouldn’t be surprised if the next thread OP makes is about the lack of sexual assault in GW2.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Or something like “Why aren’t signets items since they’re just runes that hold magic in them so that even non-magic users could use them, makes 0 sense to make them skills ermergehrd”
I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?
I am channeling the ghost of William Shakespeare right now. He says “Yes”.
I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?
I am channeling the ghost of William Shakespeare right now. He says “Yes”.
I am channeling myself and I say no. What I do say is that the game has a poor track record of showing extreme emotion of any kind. The characters stand still as they deliver their lines, and many times the lines they deliver bear no relation on the mood of the situation itself.
The concepts of charm, dignity, and ferocity are gone.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
I find it disturbing that your solution to people with ptsd is to slap them.
I feel dissatisfied with the narrative writing because very little is expressed beyond the typical range of emotions.
The voice for the revenant stances is superior to most of the characters we meet.
It’s as if everyone we meet is a stalwart hero except in instances where the player character is supposed to act.
Don’t take my posts out of context. I never said my attitude towards people with PTSD is to slap them, I meant it as in “slapping it on them” as in giving them that label as characters. I don’t expect to have to speak to people on a forum with the literal accuracy I would address children with.
Like dsslive said, the pact commander isn’t going to gather round a table with Trehearne and the pact officers to figure out where to build a mental health clinic. Its not the commander’s place. Its his duty to figure out how to kill dragons in the most efficient way possible.
and besides, since my pact commander is a Charr, he won’t be handing out boxes of tissues and offering out hugs. He’ll tell them to get onto Primus or farming duty, where unable soldiers can be useful without being dead weight on the battlefield.
If you meant it as slapping it on them you should have written it like that. Don’t comment on literal accuracy when you can’t proofread your writing.
If a character we care about tries to kill themself, then it might be sad and have an impact, but slapping depression random pact soldiers just for a bit of edgy realism and expecting the player to care isn’t going to add anything to the game.
Perhaps an on would be useful in the sentence. Or you know not relying on idioms to enhance your writing would be great too.
@dss
I don’t know where I ever said half though you seem to so please elucidate. Otherwise it’s a strawman..
What I did say is that the game doesn’t show ranges of emotions very well. Example in the uncategorized fractal you get the text manic screaming but not the sound.
The dialogue and voice acting is dull far to many times.
I didn’t mean literally half of the story, i was using hyperbole to prove a point.
Let me try to put it different; when i say “half of the story doesn’t have to be about dealing with suicide/depression” i mean that while there should be examples of it existing (examples like the ones already provided) it shouldn’t have to be overly prominent to the world when it doesn’t fit the narrative that is being used, concerning the overall story, it’s about coming together to untie against a stronger foe, to find strenght in your allies, friends and loved ones. Yes, if you talk to as many people as the player character you’ll find some stories of people dealing with suicidal thoughts or depression, which you do too as to the examples given by plagiarised of random npcs all around the world displaying these mental issues.Is there not enough exposure concerning transgender people because we only know of one npc? Are there no other homosexual couples because we only know of 3? It’s impossible to put millions of ppl into the game each showing their individuality and issues they deal with, so they use certain npc’s to display that those issues do exist within tyria , that those relation ships exist. And that’s all they can do.
Could there be more exposure to depression/suicide? possibly, but would it add to the game? i’m not sure.
You are asking for statistically relevant demographics. Yet grief/rage are not demographics. Transgender and homosexual individuals are a human genetic mutation, there is no reason to assume that Tyria has the same level in the populace to produce a comparable number. In fact the majority we see are sylvari and they have no dna to speak of. Somehow this topic of suicide came to mental illness or depression, and away from topics of grief/rage.
It is my hope with HoT the game becomes darker than it currently is. But given the appearance of Swordmaster Faren I don’t have much hope.
Are there any quests where you rescue Asura from the Nightmare court?
Not sure where you got the part about me asking for statistically relevant demgraphics, well i just plain don’t know what you mean by that :p
I’m not against a darker story, but a darker story isn’t necessarily related to depression/suicide. To come back to a point you made earlier in this threa “if you talked to as many people as your PC does in tyria, he’d come across a fair number of people with depression/suicidal thoughts or just plain suicides” paraphrasing here obviously, and i think this does have a relation to the lower exposure of depression or suicides. When you talk to people in the real world, as you’d talk to people in tyria playing your main character, both would be a stranger talking to a stranger (even if they’ve heard of the great pact commander, not all will know your name or how you look, unless you casually mention it to eevery single person :p) i don’t think you’d get as much exposure to people suffering from these two things (depression, suicidal thoughts) simply because people don’t tend to talk about such things with strangers they meet, not even with the people closest to them. Often depression is a battle people fight within while they keep a straight face to the outside world, ofc different people act differently withi these things, this is just my personal experience about it. So while i’m sure there will be people that suffer from those that you talk to, it wont be something they , as a character or person (with the real life analogy) would let you know.
But i do agree , i would love a darker story, but a darker story isn’t just about showcasing depression and suicides, it’s about a loss of any kind, about grief, anger, despair, but none of those necessarily lead to depression let alone an actual suicide (dont get me wrong i wouldn’t be against the theme of suicide being talked about within the story as long as it isn’t just slapped on to tick a box of the social issues list)
@dss a strange thing in this thread is that I have mentioned extreme emotion as much if not more than suicide in this thread. I understand the title is a bit of a buzzword but I always said that this was part of a larger trend in the series.
I mentioned demographic because when a you comment on transgender you get into a topic that is based on human genetic mutations.
Humans regardless of genes cannot simply become transgender/gay but all humans have the capacity to show extreme emotions. Depression is just one of those extreme emotions.
… You sound like one of those SJW types who require boxes to be ticked on a list of social angst before any fictional work/world/character can be considered “good”.
Honestly I don’t want to pre-judge people… but you know the last year in gaming and all that…
It’s a valid point though, depression in Tyria seems to be unheard of, with all the war and loss going on about you would think it’d be realistic to hear about a suicide story or two. The reason’s probably because it’s such a delicate topic and writers would rather keep it under the rug, just like the “r” word.
In a world of constant war, said war becomes mundane. Likely many have been born into bad situations, have grown up in those situations and go on living in those situations.
12+ Is not young enough to hear about that concept? Especially when the game tells us of murder and torture? The suggestive themes limit is for sexual content.
This is all part of a trend in this game to not show an emotional spectrum.
Oh you’re making it so hard not to judge you…
There is no need for every game to present the full spectrum of emotions, there is no need for every game to presents the full spectrum of personalities, sexuality, races, nationalities etc. In fact if every game did so then every game would be rather similar. Diversity is not gained by merit of homogenizing each individual game, it’s gained by having games that are different and cover different topics.
I could probably make the games-are-art argument here, you know that this is ANets artistic vision and that vision doesn’t involve everyone mopping around killing themselves.
That is wrong. It does not depict bipolar disorder. And depression is different from bipolar disorder.
Actually depression is part of bipolar.
Beyond that there are at most 5ish instances of extreme emotion cited. Which means either the general populace is extremely aloof or for the most part we are shown only the happy people.
So you say there is no depression, people give you examples and then you say there isn’t enough… You’re shifting the goal posts… Sorry I’m using my anti-SJW language here. But come on you’re not making it easy for me to not see you as someone pushing a ‘progressive’ perspective.
You as a character speak to many many people over the period of playing the game. There is a disparity in the people you interact with showing an amount of mental illness or even extreme emotion proportional to population of the sizes presented in game.
Why do we need quotas for crazy people in Tyria?
I’m not saying they have to go full game of thrones but a little more seriousness to the story would be much appreciated. Although if they figure it will be too impressionable I understand.
GoT doesn’t have a lot of suicide either…
I really wouldn’t be surprised if the next thread OP makes is about the lack of sexual assault in GW2.
It’s implied that the Flame Legion have kitten -camps.
You mean the now nine examples of it that people can even think of. I’ve read them, I digested them, I was not satisfied by them.
That seems like a ‘you’ problem then.
Because you are pact commander so by lore you would care.
Sorry I main a Charr Necro, no caring there. What am I not headcannon-ing right?
It is my hope with HoT the game becomes darker than it currently is. But given the appearance of Swordmaster Faren I don’t have much hope.
But if ANet wants to make a fun game, and give players something to laugh at what’s wrong with that? Don’t tell me you’re one of those people that think maturity is synonymous with dark and edgy.
@dss a strange thing in this thread is that I have mentioned extreme emotion as much if not more than suicide in this thread. I understand the title is a bit of a buzzword but I always said that this was part of a larger trend in the series.
I mentioned demographic because when a you comment on transgender you get into a topic that is based on human genetic mutations.
Humans regardless of genes cannot simply become transgender/gay but all humans have the capacity to show extreme emotions. Depression is just one of those extreme emotions.
Yes, i didn’t quite understand what you meant but you’re right regarding the comparison f.ex. to transgender representation, get what you’re saying now.
I think, mostly in my last post i misread a sentence that made me go more towards suicide/depression, when you meant that it was supposed to be about grief/rage. that’s what you get for tryng to read fast :p
Personally i love darker stories, think there was jsut a hang up on the whole depression/suicide angle which took it away from the purpose of the thread.
So i totally agree on having a darker storyline.
@dss a strange thing in this thread is that I have mentioned extreme emotion as much if not more than suicide in this thread. I understand the title is a bit of a buzzword but I always said that this was part of a larger trend in the series.
I mentioned demographic because when a you comment on transgender you get into a topic that is based on human genetic mutations.
Humans regardless of genes cannot simply become transgender/gay but all humans have the capacity to show extreme emotions. Depression is just one of those extreme emotions.
Yes, i didn’t quite understand what you meant but you’re right regarding the comparison f.ex. to transgender representation, get what you’re saying now.
I think, mostly in my last post i misread a sentence that made me go more towards suicide/depression, when you meant that it was supposed to be about grief/rage. that’s what you get for tryng to read fast :p
Personally i love darker stories, think there was jsut a hang up on the whole depression/suicide angle which took it away from the purpose of the thread.
So i totally agree on having a darker storyline.
Yeah there definitely was a hang up on the suicide part. I suppose the title could be clearer.
The hilarious thing though is the people who mention minority representation. As if emotions were part of a genetic minority. People use SJW despite having no idea what the label refers to.
Like this commenter
Oh you’re making it so hard not to judge you…
There is no need for every game to present the full spectrum of emotions, there is no need for every game to presents the full spectrum of personalities, sexuality, races, nationalities etc.
The later have nothing to do with the former. They treat realistic portrayals of emotion in a setting as not a given of any non light fantasy.
Making characters darker has so very little to do with race. Yet people treat this as if I’m asking for demographic/diversity and not artistic merit.
(edited by Daniel Handler.4816)
I don’t understand. Are you saying the franchise isn’t good unless it’s loaded with suicides?
I am channeling the ghost of William Shakespeare right now. He says “Yes”.
I am channeling myself and I say no. What I do say is that the game has a poor track record of showing extreme emotion of any kind. The characters stand still as they deliver their lines, and many times the lines they deliver bear no relation on the mood of the situation itself.
The concepts of charm, dignity, and ferocity are gone.
Daniel maybe we should just have every single NPC kill themself! Would that make you happy? because right now that seems to be exactly what you want. If you want alot of game characters to take their life YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!!!! It is sick that you want a high suicide/depression rate in a game made for people of all ages. You have a sick mind Daniel. Very few people would play a game with high suicide rate. Suicide is a very taboo subject that most games do not like to touch on because it can have a very negative impact on the appearance of the company and the game as well as encourage suicide in the real world. Also let’s not forget that people of all ages and religions play this game killing a zombie or a peaceful chicken or a bandit is far more acceptable among people than suicide is. And i personally would not want to play a game with a high suicide rate especially if those suicides were just from some nameless npcs who were a little depressed! Suicide does not mean a game is good. If you want to see a high suicide rate watch the news! Guild wars 2 is about having fun not watching as your fellow pact soldiers and random civilians take their own lives because of PTSD or depression! People have shown you many NPCs with depression of some form and yet you are not satisfied, why? Would it be better if those NPCs went and jumped off a cliff? Would that somehow make for better storytelling? NO!
To contribute a serious post to this discussion, I have occasionally thought about how I would make GW2 different if its reimagining were left entirely up to me. I would give the game strong elements of Lovecraftian cosmic horror. I would replace the elder dragons with a more untouchable, incomprehensible, alien force. The game would feature themes of terror, cults, mental illness, and of course suicide. At this point though, it would no longer be GW2, but a different game entirely. That being the problem of including such themes in a more lighthearted game such as this.
For that matter, does anyone know of an MMO that fully captures the overwhelming terror of our ignorance, our meaninglessness, and the overpowering inevitability of the end times?
(edited by Nox Lucis.8341)
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