Guild Wars 2

That is, where was he holing up between Southsun events? We have this quote from Kiel: “He spent a lot of time here exploring the place. Didn’t think he’d ever come back, though.” So he spent a lot of time there…but not during the interlude between Lost Shores and Secret/Last Stand.

But prior to Lost Shores, we know that he sent an expedition to scout the place, which essentially tells us nobody had been there before. And we also know Owain was the only survivor of that expedition, meaning Canach didn’t personally go with them. So he hadn’t actually been there before that event.

So if he wasn’t there before or after Lost Shores, when did he manage to become so familiar with the island? And since he wasn’t there, are there any hints at where he might have been instead?

I’m hoping to write a story or something about the transformation he went through during this interlude, so if any of you seasoned lore experts can help fill up these holes, it would be most appreciated.

But he was there O_o….
He was in Garrenhoff for a while as well.

You answer your own question.

“So if he wasn’t there before or after Lost Shores, when did he manage to become so familiar with the island?”
“we know that he sent an expedition to scout the place”

As for the question, I don’t think he was in any one place- the short story made it sound like he had his hands full staying one step ahead of Consortium hitmen. The only thing we know for sure is that he cleared a Molten Facility during Flame & Frost (which would put him in the eastern Shiverpeaks/western Ascalon for at least part of the F&F timeframe) and that he was in Lion’s Arch shortly before returning to Southsun. So really the options are wide open for your story.

I do agree, though, that the dialogue in-game is not very clear as to rather Canach went personally with the team or not. Indeed, some of it even seems to conflict. At the moment, I don’t know that we can say with any certainty rather or not he journeyed with his expedition.

The slight mistake the OP made: Canach didn’t send an expedition team. He was the expedition team’s leader. That’s when he became more familiar with the island, when he was exploring it with the Consortium. He was there before The Lost Shores, and in fact, Canach is the reason why the karka got so riled up. In other words, he was the main reason why The Lost Shores events even happened.

He was given orders by the Consortium not to touch with the animals there, and used this as a loophole to experiment with and examine the plantlife there – particularly the Passion Flowers; this in turn kitten ed off the karka for unclear reasons, and the reason why they invaded Lion’s Arch, Garrenhoff, and Morgan’s Spiral is because they were retaliating against Canach and those who escaped (they escaped to Lion’s Arch then headed to Tanto Trade Post and Garrenhoff).

Furthermore, Owain was not the only survivor. Canach and Noll were both part of the expedition team too. Owain was the only survivor who didn’t flee the island.

As to where he was between Lost Shores and Secret of Southsun – he was on the run from the Consortium. Some members of the Consortium (Noll being one) wanted him dead and had been sending mercenaries after him repeatedly. We were told in a forum post that he spent time fighting the Molten Alliance after they popped up, hence why he got those gloves, so that’s part of where he was.

The wiki has all this, though not in such details, on Canach’s article – it does have it in detail on karka’s article though. (I think I’ll expand Canach’s article to show his full story…).

Kestin.2368:

I’m hoping to write a story or something about the transformation he went through during this interlude, so if any of you seasoned lore experts can help fill up these holes, it would be most appreciated.

This forum post by Scott McGough may be helpful.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I do agree, though, that the dialogue in-game is not very clear as to rather Canach went personally with the team or not. Indeed, some of it even seems to conflict. At the moment, I don’t know that we can say with any certainty rather or not he journeyed with his expedition.

Erm…

This is the sworn statement of Canach, Secondborn.
While under contract to the Consortium,* I began Preliminary exploration and development of the island later known as Southsun Cove.*
During the initial survey, my team located an unknown species of plant. My contract precluded me claiming or profiting from any animal, mineral, or magical resources on the island, but plant life was not mentioned. I therefore ordered my team to collect samples of the plant as they mapped the island and set up an asura gate to facilitate access to Southsun Cove.
I cannot swear to what provoked the karka attack on Lion’s Arch, but I expect it was a combination of my team’s presence and their activities on the island.
I regret my actions and the harm they have caused. As a show of good faith in the hope of ending the karka threat, I have enclosed a copy of the initial survey map and all accomanying notes.

—Canach

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lost_Shores/Phase_1#Intermediary_mails

Sounds like he was part of that expedition, to me. His and Noll’s retreat seem to be why the karka went to Garrenhoff and Morgan’s Spiral.

Edit: If that isn’t confirmation enough, there were some interactive objects added to Southsun Cove – near each settlement – one of which is the log of the captain of the ship that took the expedition team to Southsun Cove. It includes mention of Canach being with them, iirc. Sadly, I don’t think any of them are on the wiki.

See, I knew there would be someone around with a much better grasp on details. (I almost didn’t even ask, because I knew how uninformed I would sound in comparison.) I was hoping there would be more to go on other than the Molten raid and Blingg’s bachelor pad, but at least the Southsun question is answered. Thank you for the clarification.

Don’t worry about sounding uninformed. Most of the Living Story’s story is hidden in forum posts, short stories, recaps, and interviews. All but the short stories aren’t acknowledged by ArenaNet on the main site. There’s no direction to them. You have to either dig, dig, dig or rely on the community.

Sorry. I should have phrased that better. The confusion isn’t due to ambiguous wording, but rather to openly conflicting statements.

Canach: Very well. Weeks ago, I sent an expedition to an unknown island to the south. They were to ready an asura gate as part of the Consortium’s development plans.
Canach: My team never returned. The gate remains inactive, and wreckage from their ship started washing up not long before the karka attacks began.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lost_Shores/Phase_2/Dialogues

As for the apparent grudge against Canach and Noll… this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but that theory has never made sense to me, especially with what we now know from Secret of Southsun. This is how I conceive of the progression of events:

Canach, either personally or through his expedition, discovers unique flora on Southsun. Realizing that this is something the Consortium had not explicitly laid claim to, and therefore something he could profit off of, he latched on to the opportunity. Unbeknownst to him, the toxins of this plant drive wildlife into a blind frenzy. Somehow the tampering releases the toxin into the environment, frenzying the karka, who lash out not only at the expedition but also move to strike at coastal settlements, acting violently enough in the process to drive a wave of sealife in front of them.

I really don’t think there was anything more to the Garrenhoff and Caledon Forest attacks than that those were the only other two significant populated areas on the Sea of Sorrows. The Dominion of Winds blocks most of the northwestern coast, there’s nothing really south of LA (certainly not in the way of communities that might contact the player for help) and Rata Sum is not only largely out of the way- the karka would have to round the Grove and head quite a ways west- but also, like the Grove, almost entirely out of reach from the ocean. Perhaps the only strangeness there would be why Stormbluff Isle or Claw Island weren’t attacked.

After escaping from Lionguard custody, and returning to Southsun, Canach looks back into the plants, realizing that they are the only thing his team disturbed enough to account for the sudden attack. He figures out what properties the flora holds, weaponizes it, and turns it to his own ends- thus the Secret of Southsun and Last Stand at Southsun releases.

EDIT: Were you talking about this? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Makeshift_Memorial

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sorry. I should have phrased that better. The confusion isn’t due to ambiguous wording, but rather to openly conflicting statements.

Canach: Very well. Weeks ago, I sent an expedition to an unknown island to the south. They were to ready an asura gate as part of the Consortium’s development plans.
Canach: My team never returned. The gate remains inactive, and wreckage from their ship started washing up not long before the karka attacks began.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Lost_Shores/Phase_2/Dialogues

As for the apparent grudge against Canach and Noll… this is sidetracking the thread a bit, but that theory has never made sense to me, especially with what we now know from Secret of Southsun. This is how I conceive of the progression of events:

[snip]

That was probably the quote that led me to assume he didn’t go along with the expedition. (I looked into this as best I could, but this was a couple weeks ago or more, and I failed to refresh myself on the details before posting.) He does say he “sent” them, and he does say they “never returned”, which is an odd way of phrasing it if he was there with them.

As far as the plants go, that’s pretty much exactly what I had in mind: he ticked off the karka by accident the first time around, then determined how it happened and how he could manipulate the results. It’s been implied that the karka are sapient — I think it was in some old staff post about their flight from the dragon — but that just seems unlikely to me. Although it’s fun to imagine him learning karka-speak and showing them a map of all the buildings to destroy…

MatthewMedina.5419:

Canonically, yes the Lost Shores weekend and lead-up was set after the events of the Guild Wars 2 personal story and the defeat of Zhaitan, so this is partially what made it possible for the karka to establish a clawhold on Southsun Cove.

As to whether there can be risen karka: while it’s not entirely out of the realm of possibility (although pitting dragon corruption vs. karka impenetrable shell would be an experiment I would be interested to watch), the karka are recent arrivals to the surface from their original home deep in the ocean. The ocean is a big enough place that the karka managed to settle on Southsun without encountering many risen, and they avoided Orr for the same reasons they fled their home. The karka are an old, old species so they have encountered Elder Dragons and their minions before…and they’re certainly smart enough to understand the threat they represent.

Unfortunately, dev comments like this are the only indication that karka have any intelligence. From what we experience in-game, there’s nothing to indicate that they are more than particularly exotic wildlife.

That said, if they are intelligent, sapient beings, it puts a whole different context on those Karka Omelets…

Didn’t recall that line. And no, the object I refer to is a journal, near Canach’s Folly. That name, btw, is another indication that Canach went to the island as part of the expedition team.

As to your theory of the Fervid Censer being what caused the attacks on Lion’s Arch. I doubt it. The spores that spread that pollen is stated to be new, I believe, during Secret of Southsun. This indicates that what drove the Karka into a frenzy is not native to Southsun. Furthermore, the Karka behavior during Secret of Southsun is said to be new and unusual – not something you’d say if the behavior matched how they were when first discovered.

Personally I view the Fervid Censer as being related to Mordremoth. But there really isn’t anything to support such at the time, other than being plant related and affecting both Karka and reef rider (if not other wildlife) the same – something that wouldn’t naturally occur to species of different native environments.

Found it: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Log_Book_Fragment

On balance, it seems that there are more statements that he came than that he didn’t. Still, I hate that there is conflict between in-game sources.

I can’t find anything that says for sure that Canach’s poisons originated from Southsun, but the pieces fit. We know that fiddling with the island’s plants instigated the first attack, we know that in both instances the karka lashed out at the nearest settlements, and we know that the plants that incited the second attack were found across the island. It’s a bit of a stretch to say that Canach would use a second, separate kind of plant to induce the same effects as he had already produced. Nothing I could find on the wiki indicated that these plants were new, and when the karka were first discovered they were being put down in mass, hardly a situation in which one might expect to study their habits- I believe the comments about the behavior change are meant to be taken in the context of the months of relative quiescence proceeding the renewed assaults.

It isn’t a stretch at all given they weren’t there before, and the first time the other wildlife did not get aggressive, but clearly did the second time.

Furthermore, unlike the first time, the second time the aggressive animals were covered in the golden pollen clouds.

The effects, though similar, are not the same. The first time is credited to territorial aggression – though the accuracy is questionable – while the second is pollen-induced by the Fervid Censer.

Hm… we may have to agree to disagree, barring dev intervention (pretty please?). None of the karka nests had tentacles before either, but I don’t buy that that suddenly changed. I think ANet just got a better idea of where they were going with this stuff. And who’s to say the other wildlife wasn’t aggressive before? Just because riders and drakes couldn’t make the journey across the sea doesn’t mean they weren’t affected. In addition, the first incident was much more limited in scope- an outbreak, whereas the second was prolonged malign intervention causing permanent alteration, which would account for the pronounced visual effect. There’s just too many ’if’s and ’could’s, and it takes ‘is’ and ‘are’ to properly tip an argument.

I would argue that did suddenly change. The Karka Nest became full of that yellowish pulsating “flower” which spread the spores. More like fungi than flowers, really. The tentacles may be a reaction to those pollens.

And now that I’m no longer on the road:

“I have several lifetimes of research here, but only one life. Even aside from the karka, this place is a treasure trove of rare flora and unique, if increasingly belligerent, fauna.”
“Something is riling up the native wildlife. To figure out what, I need samples of local environmental anomalies. The more volunteers I get, the faster I get answers. "

If they were always there, then they wouldn’t be anomalies. The anomalies we take samples of are the spores/fungi/plants that were spreading the pollens which were aggravating the wildlife – and again, unlike the first time, including non-karka.

Furthermore:

“I was right: the adrenal response of local wildlife has been tampered with. I just wish I felt happier about being right. We’ll be trying to reverse the ecological effects here for a long time.”
“Canach’s tampering has made the entire ecosystem here more dangerous than ever. My career has taken a depressing turn from natural observation to disaster mitigation. "
“In order to disrupt Consortium operations here, he used some plant-based reagent to artificially goad the local fauna into violent attacks. I’m not sure we can reverse the damage at this point.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Researcher_Levvi

Canach’s actions during Secret of Southsun was permanent to the wildlife. If the plants that aggravated the karka the first time was the Fervid Censer, then why was that not permanent?

And I wonder this – sylvari are known to make not only clothing, but armor, weapons and even housing out of plants. Why would it be so hard to believe Canach wouldn’t make a plant using sylvari-unique magic that aggravates animals?

Either way, Levvi proves the following:

• The plants were new during Secret of Southsun, and not native to the island.
• The wildlife wasn’t always so aggressive (why did you even ask that? That was the main plot behind the Secret of Southsun part of the chapter).
• Whatever was done, was artificial. Meaning that it isn’t likely to be capable to occur naturally (which natural flowers in the area would be capable of doing).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Didn’t recall that line. And no, the object I refer to is a journal, near Canach’s Folly. That name, btw, is another indication that Canach went to the island as part of the expedition team.

But Canach is exceedingly self-righteous. Somehow I doubt he would have actually named a location “Canach’s Folly” (or allowed his own team to name it that, had he been there).

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Found it: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Log_Book_Fragment

On balance, it seems that there are more statements that he came than that he didn’t. Still, I hate that there is conflict between in-game sources.

I missed that piece of info, and it is very definitive about Canach’s presence on the team…if only there weren’t other equally definitive info to the contrary. Sigh. I guess I can either choose one and ignore the other, or hold out for a dev response.

(Thought I should address something said earlier: whether or not Canach was there, I sincerely doubt Noll was there. We know a lot more about his position in the Consortium and he’s definitely an administrative type. But as always, feel free to correct me.)

As for the plants, I see why they can’t have been the original ones, but I think it’s possible that Canach derived his formula from that, or perhaps from a related species. He already knew that something about messing with those plants set off the karka, and that’s pretty much what he wanted to do the second time around, so why would he start over if he could modify what he had? Artificially engineered breeds of existing plant life might still be different enough to be considered anomalous.

Never said Canach named it. Likely, it was Kiel and the Lionguard who took Southsun. I believe Canach’s Folly was where his team was set up on the western half of the island, though there’s nothing to say what Canach’s Folly was before Kiel showed up – if it existed prior. Point was that at Canach’s Folly is an item – which Aaron linked – that states Canach joined the expedition.

As for Noll… here’s my question: If Noll wasn’t directly related to the Consortium’s expedition, then why was he on the run from the Lionguard and the karka as well? I think Noll was the “official Consortium member” who was sent on that expedition team to ensure things were kept under control – he may be more administrative, but he’s a field administrator. And Canach was just a hired hand – as was the captain. So I doubt they’d be left in charge, rather than an official Consortium… official.

As for Canach deriving a formula or whatnot from the original plants – possible. The Fervid Censer does look a bit like a Passion Flower, which is heavily implied to be that unique flora that the expedition team found (given its only found there even mechanically – just like Azurite). And the Passion Flowers began blooming with Secret of Southsun. However, I cannot see them as being the same both untouched and with permanent effects on the wildlife.