Guild Wars 2

So I think it’s time we had a dedicated thread to this plot.

The first mention of a threat to a leader, if I recall correctly, was in episode one during the Cornered instance.

After defeating Aerin we find a note scrap on his body that reads:

…leader will die. The rest will fall in line. We will not fail."

Early guesses pointed at the Master of Peace (the person Aerin was specifically targeting at the time) but information since suggests it’s not that simple. Upon revealing that the vines in Prosperity are the work of Mordremoth, Kasmeer seems to suggest it might be Trahearne.

Kasmeer: Aerin said a Tyrian leader would die. This makes me think someone—or something—was pulling his strings. That scares me the most about him.
Player: Trouble is, we have no idea who he meant.
Kasmeer: It could be anyone, though the biggest threat to Mordremoth is probably Trahearne. I hate the thought that Queen Jennah could be in danger too.

I believe she only mentions Jennah because Kasmeer is a human noble that loves her Queen (she expressed concern for Jennah last year after Scarlet attacked). Killing Trahearne makes a lot of sense because he is the only one on Tyria with a proven track record for taking down an Elder Dragon.

Adding fuel to the “Queen Jennah is the target” theory we have the Priory artifact from The Concordia Incident.

Magister Lindsay: Thank goodness you found us. I was afraid we’d be trapped here. How did you know to look for us?
Player: We heard there was trouble at Concordia and came immediately.
Magister Lindsay: How bad are things over there? Have the items in the fort been compromised?
Player: I’m afraid so. The Vigil have reatreated to Goldenlight Hallow lab.
Magister Lindsay: What are we going to do now? Our caravans were carrying magical artifacts out here for safekeeping. The Krytan royal locket is among them.
Player: The Krytan royal locket?
Magister Lindsay: It’s a magical locket. It’s said to always have the image of the current heir to the throne of Kryta displayed inside it. It’s quite beautiful.
Player: It sounds powerful.
Magister Lindsay: Very powerful. And coveted. We move it from fort to fort on an irregular schedule. I probably shouldn’t even be telling you about it, but…you’re you.
Player: My lips are sealed.

Take note the Concordia’s leader claims the vines first appeared when the Priory caravan arrived.

Tactician Art: Well, a few small vines popped up after the Priory caravan arrived, but we didn’t pay those any mind. Er, until they grew.

Personally I think that’s simply to demonstrate that Mordremoth is drawn to powerful magical artifacts (I believe there was a Priory Personal Story plot that deals with the same thing when Zhaitan’s minions go after Priory HQ for their artifacts – Mordremoth hit Fort Salma because of the krait obelisk shards). At the end of the instance Lindsay mentions the artifacts are drained of their magic but the locket is only weakened. Also note that while there are multiple artifacts, the Krytan Royal locket is the only one specifically described. Like Mai Trinn was the only named crowd member in Dragon Bash (suggesting she was the culprit from the get go) this suggests that the locket will be an important detail in the future. Some people suggest the locket could be used to track down Jennah’s heir if Mordremoth kills her (she is the leader Aerin refers to) but I personally think it is related to the true heir to Ascalon and the Foefire curse (tweak it so find the Ascalon heir instead of the Krytan heir).

If your PC is a sylvari, the audience with the Pale Tree in Rallying Call puts another leader as a likely target.

The Pale Tree: Well, my child, the one thing you must never forget is that I stand between you and the greatest darkness you’ll ever know. A vast darkness intent on consuming all that we hold dear.
Sylvari Player: What do you mean, Mother?
The Pale Tree: There are those who reject my protection. It leaves them vulnerable in ways they cannot imagine, in ways they never were before. I shield you as best I can and will for as long as I can.
Sylvari Player: You’re talking about dragon corruption. We’ve been immune to it.
The Pale Tree: Yes. In the past, my children have been immune. But Mordremoth’s corruption is powerful, and just as Zhaitan created the undead from so many creatures, so Mordremoth’s corruption can change you.

Now go back to the peice of paper found on Aerin’s corpse – “…leader will die. The rest will fall in line.” The Pale Tree just confirmed in Rallying Call that she does protect the sylvari from Mordremoth’s corruption. That without her, the sylvari race are able to be influenced by Mordremoth as Scarlet (who rejected the Pale Tree and broke free with Omadd’s machine) and Aerin (who is implied to be Soundless) likely were. “The rest will fall in line” could mean the sylvari race will be corruptible by Mordremoth. “Fall in line” does not suggest die, but rather follow. Could Aerin and Mordremoth be targeting the Pale Tree so that the sylvari race become vulnerable to corruption?

In one of the future releases we have a summit held in the Grove (presumably the Omphalos Chamber so the Pale Tree can be present) and some of the most prominent leaders in Tyria will be there. It seems like a good time to strike (especially if other Soundless were corrupted by Mordremoth and are able to “blend in” to get close to the leaders).

Obviously leaders attending the summit are potential targets. So far we have the five racial representatives – Queen Jennah, Knut Whitebear, the Pale Tree, Irion Legion Imperator Smodur the Unflinching and Councillor Phlunt. Trahearne will also be attending.

In the interest of being through it’s worth considering Commander Samuelsson (leader of Ebonhawk), Gixx (leader of the Durmand Priory), the Master of Whispers (leader of the Order of Whispers) and Almorra Soulkeeper (leader of the Vigil).

With all the leaders across Tyria, there are many different ways you can spin this plot. Which leader do you think is the one Aerin was targeting? Is there something I missed (or got wrong)? Do you think we will see Aerin’s allies make their move at the coming summit?

the thing u speak to is the avatar of the pale tree… i dont think u can really kill the pale tree…

the first leader mentioned aside from the zephyrite(sp?) leader was trahearne which i think is significant although i imagine our living story quests will involve saving him

our character also has a proven track record against EDs, so maybe we’re the leader being targeted? would be fun to have assassins (do EDs even have assassin minions??) chasing us all the time. also, master of whispers’ identity is only known by a few people, none of whom are sylvari, so mord would just be pulling guesses out of thin air if that was the target. doubt any of the order leaders are the target though anyway, most likely trahearne or us.

All the leaders are targeted. The purpose of the summit is to get all the leaders in one location. Once the summit starts, the grove will be attacked by giant red thorn vines.

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

If we’re trying to gather all the leaders, shouldn’t we invite Blood and Ash Legions’ leaders to the summit?

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

saventis.1485:

the thing u speak to is the avatar of the pale tree… i dont think u can really kill the pale tree…

You are right that we only speak to an piece of her but the sylvari think that the entire Pale Tree is vulnerable to being killed. That is why Myleck is kept a secret because if the Nightmare Court found out about another Tree, they might just kill this one and go after an easier unsuspecting target.

Rym.1469:

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

If we’re trying to gather all the leaders, shouldn’t we invite Blood and Ash Legions’ leaders to the summit?

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

This is a good point. Though in the Ash and Blood intros it states that they serve the Black Citidel because it is in the own Legions current interests. Perhaps the leaders of the other Legions give Smodur leeway because the problem is so close to his territory. If worst comes to worst they can always just recall their own troops. But so far, they have been comfortable allowing the Iron Legion to call the shots while they stay on Iron Legion territory.

Rym.1469:

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

If we’re trying to gather all the leaders, shouldn’t we invite Blood and Ash Legions’ leaders to the summit?

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

ummm…….im not a lore person, so i can’t be even 50% sure, but isnt imperator pretty much the “leader of the charr race because we dont want a khan-ur” rank? kinda like a general while the tribunes are his commanders? could be wrong, just what ive taken from what he’s said and what others ingame and in the forums have said

DarcShriek.5829:

All the leaders are targeted. The purpose of the summit is to get all the leaders in one location. Once the summit starts, the grove will be attacked by giant red thorn vines.

… This just made me actually think. The logic behind the main character and Destiny’s Edge 2.0 is…

“Boss! They are targetting world leaders, and we do not know which!”
“Quickly! Gather all of them in a single place with minimal reinforcement!”

JusticarArkiel.1564:

“leader of the charr race because we dont want a khan-ur” rank?

Everything short of Khan-Ur is per legion. Look up Bangar Ruinbringer and Malice Swordshadow, they are the Imperators of Blood and Ash, respectively. Flame also had Gaheron Baelfire, but he’s a bit on the dead side now. Otherwise, it is as Dustfinger said, the Black Citadel and surrounding area is smack dab in the middle of Iron territory. If we ever head east of the Blazeridge mountains or where ever Ash Citadel is, the other Imperators would carry more weight.

Also, it’s not that they don’t want a Khan-Ur, it’s that it’s a position that must be recognized by all four legions, including Flame. If there’s someone capable of wrangling the Flame Legion in line with the other three, that person would be a very powerful threat to the enemies of the charr.

If we take a hint from the “fall in line” then it is someone who would naturally serve but is being led astray. The best fit for this would be the Pale Tree perhaps but Aerin would call her mother rather than leader. The Zephyrites might have made sense, given their respect for dragons, but the story suggested Aerin really wanted something from the Master of Peace instead. None of other major races would fall in line. The Pact wouldn’t fall in line. I can’t see any one leader changing how the Nightmare Court fall in line. It could refer to the remnants of Scarlet’s alliances but the only leader we know is Mai Trin and there’s no reason to think she’s pivotal. Someone in Maguuma that we don’t yet know could fit the line quite well, such as a centaur leader, a grawl leader, or a sylvari leader from a different tree.

Yossitaru.3045:

JusticarArkiel.1564:

“leader of the charr race because we dont want a khan-ur” rank?

Everything short of Khan-Ur is per legion. Look up Bangar Ruinbringer and Malice Swordshadow, they are the Imperators of Blood and Ash, respectively. Flame also had Gaheron Baelfire, but he’s a bit on the dead side now. Otherwise, it is as Dustfinger said, the Black Citadel and surrounding area is smack dab in the middle of Iron territory. If we ever head east of the Blazeridge mountains or where ever Ash Citadel is, the other Imperators would carry more weight.

Also, it’s not that they don’t want a Khan-Ur, it’s that it’s a position that must be recognized by all four legions, including Flame. If there’s someone capable of wrangling the Flame Legion in line with the other three, that person would be a very powerful threat to the enemies of the charr.

i didn’t know about bangar and malice, that was interesting to learn. but i keep hearing most npcs in CoF, or charr lands, refer to baelfire as a tribune in the flame legion. only thing i can think of is maybe they want to mentally demote him so they call him tribune? i dunno, but thanks for clearing my confusion up there yossitaru

Edit: also, in regards to the whole “it’s all the leaders” thing, i doubt it would be that, simply because, while each race would fall to pieces with the death of their leader (though asura probably won’t, arcane council has like 6 people, only one is attending), they wouldn’t work with or step aside for the dragons to take over

Speaking about Khan-Ur and Smodur I didn’t say that he will become the Khan-Ur. I said it’s just another brick in the wall.

You see, uniting the Four Legions is major, but being invited to leaders’ summits as the leader – another thing.

If the world starts to see Smodur as the guy who speaks for Charr nation, this is a big concern for other Imperators, because at the same time, their role and respect in the world is going to be lesser.

As for Flame Legion reffering to their leader as a Tribune instead of Imperator… Gaheron was, in fact, Imperator of the Golden(Flame) Legion. But it’s possible that dying NPC are reffering to events post-Gaheron and talking about Tribune Burntclaw, present in CoF P3.

After the Pale Tree’s (not so surprising) revelation that it is indeed her that is protecting the Sylvari from Mordremoth’s influence, I really do think that Aerin was referring to her when he was talking about a leader falling, and the rest falling into line.

Rym.1469:

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

If we’re trying to gather all the leaders, shouldn’t we invite Blood and Ash Legions’ leaders to the summit?

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

I was wondering how they would write a charr racial leader for this and was curious about Smodur as well. I came up with two reasons.

1. He is the Imperator of the Iron Legion. Iron Legion territory is Ascalon, so that’s the most relevant part of the world as far as the charr are concerned. Our method of contacting and gaining the good will of any charr leader was to possibly cleanse the ghosts from Ascalon. In attempting to do that we gain the good faith of Smodur, not the Ash or Blood Legions. I don’t think we secured the “charr vote” in getting Smodur – we’ve just accessed a high ranking charr leader who can speak with some authority and represent the charr, if anything is decided from the summit, Smodur has authority in the Black Citadel to at least bring it up with the other two Tribunes. I don’t think this indicates Smodur has power over the other two legions.

2. Smodur was gifted the Claw of the Khan-Ur after it was recovered from Ascalon. It seems like a kind of symbol of power, so if one day we ever see a true Khan-Ur take leadership, I would expect them to claim the Claw of the Khan-Ur. Smodur doesn’t wield the Claw of the Khan-Ur and I don’t think it’s in game, so Smodur isn’t using it to gain status, but the fact that he was given it over the other two Imperators (it was intended as a gift to broker the treaty between humans and charr, and Smodur’s territory Ascalon is most relevant to that plot – it was also looted from his territory) kinda seems leaderish (especially when you consider the team to retrieve the Claw of the Khan-Ur was a Vigil team and Almorra, a Vigil leader, was a former Blood Legion Tribune).

saventis.1485:

the thing u speak to is the avatar of the pale tree… i dont think u can really kill the pale tree…

Give me some gasoline and some matches…

Rym.1469:

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

If we’re trying to gather all the leaders, shouldn’t we invite Blood and Ash Legions’ leaders to the summit?

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

Smodur is in possession of the Claw of the Khan-Ur which he received when he brokered peace between charr and humans. This put him into a position of basically being the Khan-Ur (sort of, having the claw is only part of becoming the Khan-Ur) although he hasn’t officially claimed the title yet. Either way he has a lot of sway over the legions. Of course since we’ve seen basically nothing of the Ash Legion or Blood Legion homeland (or their leaders) I think it’s save to assume he’ll be doing the speaking for them.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Smodur_the_Unflinching

JusticarArkiel.1564:

ummm…….im not a lore person, so i can’t be even 50% sure, but isnt imperator pretty much the “leader of the charr race because we dont want a khan-ur” rank? kinda like a general while the tribunes are his commanders? could be wrong, just what ive taken from what he’s said and what others ingame and in the forums have said

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.
Smodur is probably the highest ranked because he has the Khan-Ur.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charr#Government

Anmida.4058:

… This just made me actually think. The logic behind the main character and Destiny’s Edge 2.0 is…

“Boss! They are targetting world leaders, and we do not know which!”
“Quickly! Gather all of them in a single place with minimal reinforcement!”

I’m telling you we’re secretly being manipulated by Mordy… we did go into the crazy box after all…

EDIT: Just watched the new trailer so spoilers, seem the meeting is going to be attacked.

Just to clear things up a bit, having the Claw is only one prerequisite to being Khan-Ur. More important than that Smodur needs to be able to display the power to keep all the Legions together and he needs to be able to maintain that power if he is to be considered anything close to the Khan-ur. Right now he is an equal amongst the other Imperitors but at least he is an equal on his own land. so that would be a reason he represents the charr in this case.

Other Impertitors have joined the Legions together but it was never for very long so they weren’t considered Khan-Ur. That means that any would-be Khan-Ur can expect to face constant opposition and challenges to his authority. Smodur needs to make sure he has the kind of strength to maintain Alpha status before he can make a play for the throne. Otherwise, he’d just be starting needlessly counterproductive wars within the charr nations. And we know he is more forward thinking than that.

All of them are being targeted.

saventis.1485:

the thing u speak to is the avatar of the pale tree… i dont think u can really kill the pale tree…

If an elder dragon wanted the tree dead, it could make it happen.

The Pale tree, while HUGE and magical… is a tree. She can’t flee from danger.

Rym.1469:

I’m curious about the other Imperators of Charr.

Are they out of the story? Smodur can speak for the Iron, but I believe he’s not decisive. By our mother Logic, he’s only able to manage the forces of Iron Legion.

He can be kind of emissary, but I seriously doubt that Blood Legion, especially, would let Smodur decide about their troops.

Putting Smodur as the decisive of Charr would be a serious step for him in a way of becoming Khan-Ur. If I were a Charr leader, I would never let him do so.

Missing the detail that Smodur has the claw of Khan Ur in his office.

Also Iron legion is basically the ‘head’ of the current Charr affairs. Sure, blood and Ash have their own command structures but the blood citadel seems to be implied to simply be a fort, not a city. The black Citadel is the charr capital atm. Sure, he’s not explicitly the leader of the Charr, but he basically holds that spot anyway. I mean, Ash legion and Blood both seem the types to not want to handle things that being leader of the charr would have to handle… Iron legion does.

edit: As said, we are also talking about Ascalon charr, which is Iron legion land. If we were in the north (Blood legion homelands), we’d probably be dealing with the blood imperator instead.

Anmida.4058:

… This just made me actually think. The logic behind the main character and Destiny’s Edge 2.0 is…

“Boss! They are targetting world leaders, and we do not know which!”
“Quickly! Gather all of them in a single place with minimal reinforcement!”

Minimal reinforcement? You mean inside the Grove which the Pale tree has been working to reinforce the defenses of as she told us herself?

Im 100% sure it is not Smodur that is being targeted.

“The rest will fall in line” suggests that the target is of a status that would prompt their race to fall into chaos upon their death. If Smodur is to die, nothing would happen. There are 2 other Imperators (Bangar and Malice) to hold things up, and theres the dozen or so Iron Tribunes below Smodur who would replace him. (The most likely Tribune being Bhuer.), so killing Smodur literally wouldn’t touch the Charr, however, if Jennah or The Pale Tree was to die, it would send either race into hysteria, because The Pale Tree is (supposedly) a one of a kind individual, and Jennah is currently unmarried with no heir to her throne.

“…leader will die. The rest will fall in line. We will not fail.”

If I was going to play fill-in-the-blank (which I am), I would guess that it makes sense if the plan is for Every leader will die. {so that} the rest will fall in line.

it may not be just a single leader that’s targeted.

edit: And those leaders don’t all need to be heads of nations. They can be leaders of just about any group for the general plan to work. e.g.: If the aetherblade leader wasn’t in agreement to working with scarlet, perhaps his second in command was more eager to play ball if the leader meets a gruesome end. especially if that second in command is promised whetever it is eatherblades are motivated by. (lootz).

I’m not entirely sure that Jennah’s death would completely destabilize the humans. It would certainly be a huge morale killer, but the Krytan government would be thrown completely into disarray. There’s several ministers, as well as the whole of the Shining Blade. Day to day politics would most likely continue as usual, with most likely Master Exemplar Countess Anise standing in for Jennah. Government infighting will probably escalate slowly (though more quickly than it is currently when rumors spread), but no mass hysteria would break out since the death of the Queen is probably something they’d want to try to keep secret until contingencies can be carried out.

If the dragon wants immediate results from the death of a single being, the Pale Tree is the only logical choice. If the dragon is seeking a long term destabilization to the world’s governments, it would have to adapt at least ten (probably more for all the lesser and fringe groups) complex subterfuge attacks to infiltrate and internally destroy everything in its path. Well, short of a completely brute force “raze and burn” type scenario, which seems more up the dragons’ style.

Kill the cheerleader. Destroy the World.

Kalavier.1097:

Minimal reinforcement? You mean inside the Grove which the Pale tree has been working to reinforce the defenses of as she told us herself?

To my understanding, there has been no such increase in defenses other than her “mind” protection of sylvari and the minimal readiness to the incoming threat which she has just now noticed actually incoming.
While the idea of gathering everyone in the most-likely-to-go-hayware place would still be ridiculous and non-sensical, specially when they remain in the blank of the Pale Tree’s circumstance since a ten minutes long chat only takes you so far, nothing (and specially not the outcome of the trailer) points out to her being anywhere ready to fend off assaliants, let alone protect the leaders of all nations as a focus point.

Complex attacks could be right up Mordies alley as well. We saw that Scarlet definitly displayed that behavior. It may have just been her own individual style but then the zephyrites that were stabbed may have been precision targets rather than an uncalculated murder spree. If that is the case, it begins to create a pattern of subterfuge which is a new strategy for a new dragon.

It would also fit with the obvious and unmistakle vine attack. It would be sleight of hand. “look at my right hand that is waving about frantically causing alot of wanton destruction and you miss what the left hand is doing in the shadows.”

Stooperdale.3560:

Kill the cheerleader. Destroy the World.

If only we had Zachary Quinto to play a human character in LS3.

If Scarlet is the standard for high ranking Mordrem, then we very well may be in huge trouble. She was able to gather power of most of the antagonist groups; Inquest, Flame Legion and Nightmare Court; as well as asuran colleges and charr engineering groups.

Mordrem influenced people in the various orders and as members of the governments could wreck absurd amount of slow showing damage if they remained undercover and as deceitfully clever as Scarlet. Rooting out (apologies for the obvious pun) the double agents from places of power would be a difficult and long lasting effort.

I think Scarlet isn’t the standard for high-ranking Mordrem, I think Scarlet is the standard for Scarlet.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

All of them are being targeted.

The latest trailer seems to suggest that is a possibility.If they were to have a summit gathering the world’s leaders, why make it take place in the home city of the one race we know Mordremoth can corrupt without any physical signs of corruption? Why have it in a location so close to Maguuma?

I was wondering how you would kill the Pale Tree and I kept thinking small scale – Soundless sylvari infiltrating the Grove and using either Scarlet’s toxin or Marjory’s anti-toxin to inject it into the tree. I didn’t consider Mordremoth itself could just go for an evening stroll and have an all you can eat vegetarian buffet. I wonder how a Pale Tree vs Mordremoth fight would go. Probably not well for the Pale Tree.

Argon.1563:

Im 100% sure it is not Smodur that is being targeted.

“The rest will fall in line” suggests that the target is of a status that would prompt their race to fall into chaos upon their death. If Smodur is to die, nothing would happen. There are 2 other Imperators (Bangar and Malice) to hold things up, and theres the dozen or so Iron Tribunes below Smodur who would replace him. (The most likely Tribune being Bhuer.), so killing Smodur literally wouldn’t touch the Charr, however, if Jennah or The Pale Tree was to die, it would send either race into hysteria, because The Pale Tree is (supposedly) a one of a kind individual, and Jennah is currently unmarried with no heir to her throne.

I came to the same conclusion. The only two leaders who seem to be difficult to replace are the Pale Tree and Jennah.

Kill Smoldur and it simply means a promotion for someone else in the Iron Legion, he’s one of three “equal” leaders so without him charr will be fine. The same for Trahearne, while his individual skills, knowledge, experience and diplomacy are great assets, his death is simply a promotion for someone else. Counciller Phlunt is so unimportant we didn’t event know he was a counciler until last release, I doubt he’d even dent asuran leadership if he died. Knut isn’t really a racial leader but he does seem to be respected enough in Hoelbrak to be the closest thing to one. Still, without having a traditional leadership structure, the norn wouldn’t miss him too much (his sons are also well placed to take on any responsibilities as they lead the Wolfborn – Hoelbrak’s peacekeepers).

I think humans would do fine without Jennah. There would be consequences, certainly bigger than if Knut or Phlunt died (I’m not current on my charr politics, I don’t know if there is a plot that creates context for a hostile take over if Smodur dies) but Jennah is replaceable (we have a locket to do so). I don’t think the writers would kill our good Queen Jennah (the writing is too feminist to sacrifice the female leader that rules on her own without needing a king) but if they did, Caudecus could lead without chaos and even if the new heir is simply a puppet for the ministry (or Kryta throws away the monarchy altogether) we have no context for thinking a new human leadership would ignore the threat of the dragons. At worst it would end the human/charr treaty, but that doesn’t fit Aerin’s “The rest will fall in line.”. That’s chaos, not falling in line.

The Pale Tree is the only irreplaceable leader. If she dies, an entire race becomes vulnerable. She can’t be replaced (afaik). Elder Dragons in general are described as viewing the races of Tyria as ants, they don’t really think about them. It would seem strange for Mordremoth to care about human, norn, charr or asuran politics. I’m not even convinced it would care about sylvari politics. I find the “you’re just ants” portrayal of dragons to be really boring, so I’d like them to be more calculating, but so far I don’t think we’ve seen them portrayed as master planners or big thinkers.

“I find the “you’re just ants” portrayal of dragons to be really boring, so I’d like them to be more calculating, but so far I don’t think we’ve seen them portrayed as master planners or big thinkers.”

Actually Zaitan was reasonably smart (barring the final instance) and you’ve got to assume that without heroic intervention he would have completed the surprise attack on Claw Island followed by the capture of Lion’s Arch. Similarly, only heroic intervention prevented the capture of Fort Trinity through sabotage, which would have put the Pact back onto the defensive with no threat against Orr.

It’s been a long time since I played the PS and paid attention to the details of the open world relating to it, but weren’t most of the specific plans of Zhaitan’s reign thought up by its minions?

Um, where else would they host the summit.?

Again, people seem to be forgetting the fact the Pale tree CANNOT move, and the pretty sylvari we talk to is basically a projection of her so she can talk to Sylvari/other people.

Honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the Avatar of the pale tree is an illusion the Pale tree makes, and not say… a specially born Sylvari for that purpose.

Since we know from the next trailer that the Pale Tree is seemingly going to be attacked in the next episode, I would imagine that the, “ …leader will die. The rest will fall in line. We will not fail. ”, is directed towards her.

If she dies, the shielding she provides to the Sylvari would fall, and once that happens, that makes them easy targets for corruption.

Yossitaru.3045:

I’m not entirely sure that Jennah’s death would completely destabilize the humans. It would certainly be a huge morale killer, but the Krytan government would be thrown completely into disarray. There’s several ministers, as well as the whole of the Shining Blade. Day to day politics would most likely continue as usual, with most likely Master Exemplar Countess Anise standing in for Jennah. Government infighting will probably escalate slowly (though more quickly than it is currently when rumors spread), but no mass hysteria would break out since the death of the Queen is probably something they’d want to try to keep secret until contingencies can be carried out.

What exactly does Jennah do except appear at events and stay in a big fancy house? It seems to my Jennah is like the British royalty.

Yossitaru.3045:

If Scarlet is the standard for high ranking Mordrem, then we very well may be in huge trouble. She was able to gather power of most of the antagonist groups; Inquest, Flame Legion and Nightmare Court; as well as asuran colleges and charr engineering groups.

Well I guess things have changed a bit since then, sure the Nightmare Court, Flame Legion and Inquest are all rather evil but they’re also at threat from the Elder Dragons. If they knew they were actively working for an ED they might not have joined up.
Although yeah the potential danger of hidden agents is rather… scary.

Shiren.9532:

The latest trailer seems to suggest that is a possibility.If they were to have a summit gathering the world’s leaders, why make it take place in the home city of the one race we know Mordremoth can corrupt without any physical signs of corruption? Why have it in a location so close to Maguuma?

The Sylvari ahaven’t finished building a flowerpot big enough to hold the Pale Tree yet :P

Shiren.9532:

Elder Dragons in general are described as viewing the races of Tyria as ants, they don’t really think about them. It would seem strange for Mordremoth to care about human, norn, charr or asuran politics. I’m not even convinced it would care about sylvari politics. I find the “you’re just ants” portrayal of dragons to be really boring, so I’d like them to be more calculating, but so far I don’t think we’ve seen them portrayed as master planners or big thinkers.

We don’t know if dragons are intelligent and not just animals fueled to base desires (mostly eating) and driven by primitive emotions (hate, anger etc.). In the case of Zhaitan every single time the Risen demonstrate any form of complex tactics or behavior they are always accompanied by a high level Risen.
Now of course this doesn’t mean they are stupid animals (although I’m personally more prone to thinking of them that way), but what is certain tells us is that the ED champions are responsible for the majority of tactics and complex plans. So either the EDs are intelligent and they send their champions to oversee the field work or they’re not and the champions act autonomously in service to their masters overarching goals (mostly corrupting and eating).
What this means is that if Mordy has a particularly bright champion hiding somewhere it’s not impossible for that champion to come up with a plan that involves political maneuvers. As an example in the personal story we see a Mesmer Risen framing you for shelling Pack troops in order to destabilize the Pack command structure. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shell_Shock

CureForLiving.5360:

What exactly does Jennah do except appear at events and stay in a big fancy house? It seems to my Jennah is like the British royalty.

Jennah’s day to day life isn’t known to us because we are adventurers, not ministry. We don’t follow her around and see everything that goes on.

However, I’m really, really sure her job involves more then going to parties. Or else Cauducus wouldn’t be so against her taking power back as Queen when she was of age.

Obviously he plans to attack all the leaders at the summit. But if it were a single character he would attack the player, Trahern or whatever his name is, or the Pale Tree. None of the racial leaders dying would do much damage to that races war effort.

You could make a argument for Queen Jennah’s death having a huge impact though. If she died and Caudecus took over the humans would become isolationist.

I’m betting the plan is to attack all the leaders as well, including the player.

CureForLiving.5360:

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.

I am not sure about that. I would argue its the humans since if you include the blood/ash legion for the charr you could also include cantha for the humans. With that humans should have the most territories and most likely even the most forces since cantha had (and probably still has) the biggest human population of all gw1 continents. And unlike elona, cantha doesnt seem to be in a bad state but who knows what is happen in the currently unaccessable parts…

Muchacho.2390:

CureForLiving.5360:

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.

I am not sure about that. I would argue its the humans since if you include the blood/ash legion for the charr you could also include cantha for the humans. With that humans should have the most territories and most likely even the most forces since cantha had (and probably still has) the biggest human population of all gw1 continents. And unlike elona, cantha doesnt seem to be in a bad state but who knows what is happen in the currently unaccessable parts…

I am sure one hundred years of isolation, going into a homicidical, xenophobic rampage to murder everything that’s not a very strict pure-breed canthan within canthan borders, being sieged by potentially two dragons at the same time and losing a whole race’s support which NOPE’d away after watching the craziness means by now they are happy and having tea parties with no particular issues.

When he said bad state he probably meant like Elona. Cantha is the biggest city in the game of course there will be civil unrest but I highly doubt a dragon was able to wipe them out.

If the original Guild Wars’ Factions presented anything about Cantha, is that they aren’t exactly the best at keeping themselves together when a time of need strikes.
Murderous plague of ancient death? Quickly, everyone panic! Let’s leave it up to these foreigners to solve all of our issues, not without first attempting to murder each other based on minor racial descent differences related to unfathomably silly “who killed the bad guy” disputes!

Don’t think they have gotten exactly better at panic management after the whole “kill everyone just in case” phase they went into, can’t imagine they are all dead or anything like that mind you, but. Ya know.

Anmida.4058:

Muchacho.2390:

CureForLiving.5360:

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.

I am not sure about that. I would argue its the humans since if you include the blood/ash legion for the charr you could also include cantha for the humans. With that humans should have the most territories and most likely even the most forces since cantha had (and probably still has) the biggest human population of all gw1 continents. And unlike elona, cantha doesnt seem to be in a bad state but who knows what is happen in the currently unaccessable parts…

I am sure one hundred years of isolation, going into a homicidical, xenophobic rampage to murder everything that’s not a very strict pure-breed canthan within canthan borders, being sieged by potentially two dragons at the same time and losing a whole race’s support which NOPE’d away after watching the craziness means by now they are happy and having tea parties with no particular issues.

Actually we dont know anything about cantha at the moment, but converasions with Zephyrites imply that cantha is rather doing well, because of that i said “seem to be”.

Muchacho.2390:

Anmida.4058:

Muchacho.2390:

CureForLiving.5360:

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.

I am not sure about that. I would argue its the humans since if you include the blood/ash legion for the charr you could also include cantha for the humans. With that humans should have the most territories and most likely even the most forces since cantha had (and probably still has) the biggest human population of all gw1 continents. And unlike elona, cantha doesnt seem to be in a bad state but who knows what is happen in the currently unaccessable parts…

I am sure one hundred years of isolation, going into a homicidical, xenophobic rampage to murder everything that’s not a very strict pure-breed canthan within canthan borders, being sieged by potentially two dragons at the same time and losing a whole race’s support which NOPE’d away after watching the craziness means by now they are happy and having tea parties with no particular issues.

Actually we dont know anything about cantha at the moment, but converasions with Zephyrites imply that cantha is rather doing well, because of that i said “seem to be”.

We know the Tengu said they had all pretty much gone insane and attempted to murder everyone in sight they deemed an outsider. As the NPCs in Divinity’s Reach state “Really? Moving to Cantha? The Tengu were the last ones to make that trip, and they made sure it was an one-way one.”

Anmida.4058:

Muchacho.2390:

Anmida.4058:

Muchacho.2390:

CureForLiving.5360:

The Charr have the largest combined armies and territories of all the player races (although the Charr as a race aren’t a united nation or force). What we see in game is only the Iron Legions territory (Ascalon). From what I can tell each region / legion has an Imperator and the tribunes govern their particular legion within the other legions territory.

I am not sure about that. I would argue its the humans since if you include the blood/ash legion for the charr you could also include cantha for the humans. With that humans should have the most territories and most likely even the most forces since cantha had (and probably still has) the biggest human population of all gw1 continents. And unlike elona, cantha doesnt seem to be in a bad state but who knows what is happen in the currently unaccessable parts…

I am sure one hundred years of isolation, going into a homicidical, xenophobic rampage to murder everything that’s not a very strict pure-breed canthan within canthan borders, being sieged by potentially two dragons at the same time and losing a whole race’s support which NOPE’d away after watching the craziness means by now they are happy and having tea parties with no particular issues.

Actually we dont know anything about cantha at the moment, but converasions with Zephyrites imply that cantha is rather doing well, because of that i said “seem to be”.

We know the Tengu said they had all pretty much gone insane and attempted to murder everyone in sight they deemed an outsider. As the NPCs in Divinity’s Reach state “Really? Moving to Cantha? The Tengu were the last ones to make that trip, and they made sure it was an one-way one.”

True but that doesnt mean cantha is in a bad condition in a sense of a powerful state. And dont forget that was before the rise of zaitan and since then some time has passed (i think it is around 100 years or so). Actually i think the Zephyrites were the last ones who had contact with cantha but the whole Zephyrites thing is a little dubvious, so i am not sure.

What two dragons would be sieging Cantha, if that was true?

Also, didn’t Sea of Sorrow’s explicitly say Cantha was trading with Kryta, as the main character was serving on one of those ships? Zhaitan rising was the reason the trade ended though, and the Krytans really weren’t allowed past the docks. As far as I heard that is.

Speaking of biggest cities…

You do know that, it’s far easier for Dragon to burn/corrupt people who are gathered closely in one place rather than splitted among some wider space ?

It seems weird for Mordremoth to target one specific leader when all of them are at the summit. If Mordremoth is being a tactical Elder Dragon, wouldn’t he just kill as many leaders as possible at the summit? I’m not a fan of the idea that a leader will die at the summit, why stop at one?

One of the interesting things about Aerin’s line that sparked the leader plot is that he writes “We will not fail.” As far as we knew, Aerin was working alone. We had an idea that he was being influenced by something else, and maybe it’s just another symptom of Aerin talking to himself (throughout the Cornered instance he is constantly having conversations with himself) but it’s possible Aerin had allies. Who would they be? The Soundless sylvari of the Weeping Isle? Other “Soundless” Zephyrites? Malyck’s people? Is he just talking about Mordremoth and its minions?

If Mordremoth wanted to kill a leader, why didn’t he do so already ?

His vines now reach Iron Marches. That’s way pass The Groove, Rata Sum, DR, Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel.
Is he waiting for a reunion to backtrack and make his move when we could have taken them all by surprise before ?

I really preferred back when the EDS were massive balls of destruction that didn’t give a kitten about anything aside from eating.

RedStar.4218:

I really preferred back when the EDS were massive balls of destruction that didn’t give a kitten about anything aside from eating.

^This

So, so, so, so, so, so much this. (I’ll give you a +1 every time I visit this thread.)