Guild Wars 2

Pretty much what the tittle says. I know Glint belonged to Kralkatorrik. But what about Kuunavang? On a related note: Is she even alive??

Oh, and for those who’re not familiarized with the name, she’s the dragon that helps you kill Shiro Takashi in GW1 Factions.

It looks like she could be related to bubbles, since she was in a sea (even though it was turned to jade).

Edit: ok, it could be a she…

Isn’t it a girl?
Anyway, we don’t know yet, but people are suspecting Bubbles

could be not tied to a dragon at all.

BrunoBRS.5178:

could be not tied to a dragon at all.

She absolutely must be tied to a dragon. Since she’s a dragon.

From what I’ve gathered from the Soesbenator during conventions is that Kuunavang is in a whole other league of dragon than the Elder Dragons and Glint are. But I’m sure we’ll get more information regarding Kuunie in the future =)

Well, I mean there are hundreds of Saltspray dragons around, which Kuunavang appears to be similar to. And it makes no sense that Saltspray dragons are dragon minions, because there is at least 1 good Saltspray dragon that answers wishes.

Ludovicus.7980:

BrunoBRS.5178:

could be not tied to a dragon at all.

She absolutely must be tied to a dragon. Since she’s a dragon.

i’d like to know where you got this information that every dragon that ever existed in Tyria is tied to an Elder Dragon.

the main antagonist’s name from Guild Wars: Factions was, Shiro Tagachi not Takashi.

We’ve been told that drakes aren’t related to the elder dragons, so it’s possible that the Canthan dragons are more evolved forms of drakes rather than being former dragon minions.

However, it’s also possible that Kuunavang is a champion, and the Saltsprays are her offspring, just as Glint was able to have offspring. If the latter, there are a couple of things we can conclude. First, when not corrupted by the Affliction, Kuunavang’s powers seem to be star-related, just as Glint’s were crystal related – this might imply that Kuunavang’s (former) master was the star dragon in the way that Kralkatorrik is the crystal dragon and so on. Secondly, Kuunavang and her (apparent) relatives are friendly to humans unless corrupted by the Jade Wind, Affliction, or other corrupting force – this suggests that either Kuunavang was freed like Glint was, or her Elder Dragon is one that approves of humanity. Especially if we consider the possibility that the ‘celestial dragon spirit’ invoked during the Dragon Festival was Kuunavang’s elder.

Note that this isn’t necessarily the same as being benevolent – Kuunavang and her master might well approve of the Empire of the Dragon because they’re setting Cantha up to be their domain once the elder fully awakens.

(Incidentally, if people don’t mind a shameless self-plug, I wrote an article looking at the Canthan dragons a little pre-release, which can be found here.)

Narcemus.1348:

Well, I mean there are hundreds of Saltspray dragons around, which Kuunavang appears to be similar to. And it makes no sense that Saltspray dragons are dragon minions, because there is at least 1 good Saltspray dragon that answers wishes.

And one of Kralkatorrik’s lieutenants (Glint) wrote the flameseeker prophecies that helped save the world from the titans, directly helped in the ascension of the prophecised chosen and later helped Destiny’s Edge set an ambush for her master and ultimately died in the process.

A good saltspray dragon would not be the first “good” dragon we’ve seen. Kuunavang herself wasn’t a bad-guy (bad-girl?), when you first encounter her she’s been corrupted but after helping her shake it off she helps in the assault on the palace. Nor does the existence of salt spray dragons rule out kuunavang being a lieutenant of an elder dragon either – dragons have tiers of minions and subordinates. For example the shatterers are lieutenants of Kralkatorrik and they in turn have their own smaller, draconic minions

The relationship between bubbles, kuuny and the saltsprays may be similar. Hell I’d put gold on kuuny making a return in GW2

I still want to know why Kuunavang had celestial powers for players and was so much stronger than any saltspray dragon. If that means she gets tied to an elder dragon like Glint, so be it.

Noone knows yet.

As far as I understood things, Glint was both a champion as well as part of a larger race of dragons. The elder dragons were simply the most powerful of them.

So I’d say Glint was more of a ‘champion by choice’ who changed her mind later on, instead of a construct like the great destroyer.

ThiBash.5634:

As far as I understood things, Glint was both a champion as well as part of a larger race of dragons. The elder dragons were simply the most powerful of them.

So I’d say Glint was more of a ‘champion by choice’ who changed her mind later on, instead of a construct like the great destroyer.

FIrst part might very well be true. I don’t remember the exact specifics, but Glint is definitely Kralk’s champion, and both true EoD and Arah Exp, it’s been said that the Forgotten helped her break free of the dragon’s influence. So it wasn’t by choice, but as to the initial subservience to Kralk, I’m not sure.

IIRC, the forgotten made glint see the error of her ways, through some powerful spell or ritual. before that, Glint willingly followed kralkatorrik.

recall how EoD described the branded’s thoughts. once they became branded, they became new creatures. whatever they used to be is dead. but as branded, they still have a conscience, can still think, and they follow their master.

champions, on the other hand, don’t have this “minion” mentality, but still fanatically follow the will of their master.

There are several things that come to mind.

There seems to be a difference between Elder dragons, and Cantha’s Dragons.

There are Celestial Beings, based on the real world Chinese Zodiac Calander. So there is a Celestial Dragon, and we are currently in the year of the Dragon, in real life, and in game. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial_Dragon.

These are Celestial Beings that are physical embodiment of the spirit of the stars. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Celestial

There was a human woman called Tahmu that became a Celestial Dragon. (Check link above for more info)

Kunnavang looks just like a Celestial Dragon, so there could be some association there, maybe a representative of the Celestial Beings?

Also Kunnavang has been corrupted in the past, this was part of the story in GW 1. We had to free her in a mission. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kuunavang

I think at this point there is not enough information out there. I am more inclined to believe that Kuunavang is a bit different then Glint, and therefore possible not associated with the Elder Dragons, just by the simple fact of the Celestial Lore.

Not everything is related to the Elder Dragons. Kuunavang could just be a very power Saltspray Dragon.

It is clear that the Saltpray Dragons have supernatural powers similar to the Djinn. Their celestial power is able to manipulate the luck/causality and grant immortality to those they see fit. Maybe they are the ones who guided the old Canthans to the world before the rest of humanity even began to appear in Elona and Tyria. The Canthan believe in the Eternal Paradise (and maybe the Tengu believe in the Sky above the Sky) could be a memory from their original world. Of course this is just an hypothesis.

There is absolutely no source or event hint from Anet that Kuunavang is linked to a Elder Dragon and it is quite silly to think that dragon always equals elder dragon.

There was a mention in early GW2 material about how Glint and Kuunavang were as children compared to the Elder Dragons. Putting them on the same level may be an indication that they are, well, on the same level. Or it could just be an indication that they’re similar in power but not in origin, and Kuunavang is entirely independent of the elders. We don’t really know, but there is some evidence that Kuunavang might be a champion – just not nearly enough to say with any certainty.

BrunoBRS.5178:

IIRC, the forgotten made glint see the error of her ways, through some powerful spell or ritual. before that, Glint willingly followed kralkatorrik.

recall how EoD described the branded’s thoughts. once they became branded, they became new creatures. whatever they used to be is dead. but as branded, they still have a conscience, can still think, and they follow their master.

champions, on the other hand, don’t have this “minion” mentality, but still fanatically follow the will of their master.

There was at least one branded – the ogre chieftain – that seemed to have at least a significant fragment of their old personality left (still looking out for revenge for his son’s death, just that following Kralkatorrik became higher on the priority list).

So I don’t remember what brought about the corruption in Cantha in GW1. However, from your posts it seems that it is a possibility that a dragon (maybe sleeping like Primordius) could have caused this corruption and hence the afflicted… the afflicted seem very similar to dragon minions… Also, if it is a star dragon and Shiro caused the afflicted could he be a champion? Afterall, if a man can become a celestial dragon why can’t a man be a dragon’s champion? The corruption could also suggest the sea turning to jade or the forest becoming petrified.

Disclaimer: I remember nothing from why the forest was petrified or the sea turned to jade except for it was related to Shiro.

Shiro was corrupted by Abaddon (fairly certain), so he killed everything and when he was killed, he had the Jade Wail or something, which petrified the forest and turned the sea to jade. Then when he came back was when the corruption started.
Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall all pertained to Abaddon events, not ED. Some characters however are turning out to be related to the ED’s, like Glint

^ Jade Wind.

if i recall, the jade wind happened when Shiro’s killing spree started, starting with the assassination of the emperor on the harvest temple.

But what is the origin of the jade wind was more my issue. I don’t think Shiro has that power. Just thought maybe it was dragon related is all and that the one who created it might have been Kuunavang’s “Elder”.

^ or, you know, abbadon, like it’s stated in lore.

As for salt spray dragons I want to see how Shinny turned out living in elona living and being raised by Djinn.

The Jade Wind was a corrupted form of a blessing from Dwayna. The point of the Harvest Festival, was that the Emperor would go to the temple and pray to Dwayna and she would give him a blessing to disperse between the people. When Shiro killed the Emperor he took this blessing to make himself more powerful, and when he died he released it in a corrupted form, doing roughly the exact opposite of what the power was meant for. no dragons involved.

Soooooooooooooooooo… I’m reading this thread. And something’s jumping out at me, because it keeps getting repeated.

Kuunavang was corrupted by the Jade Wind. This is a solid fact. In fact her corruption brought her under the influence of Shiro.

Dragonspawn (along with Sylvari) can’t really be corrupted into the influence of another entity.

Doesn’t this fact negate the possibility that Kuunavang is a Dragon Champion. I realize this is often referring specifically to ‘Dragon Corruption’, but honestly I don’t think we’ve seen Dragon Spawn adversely corrupted in any shape or form, though I have no feasible access to the game at the moment so I very well could be wrong. Just my thought, somebody lemme know if I dropped the ball though.

I think there is mention of a being having been corrupted by multiple forces, in the Crucible of Eternity. That being said, for a dragon champion (which Kuunavang would have to be) to be corrupted is something that I have seen or heard nothing of. And it could be that the creature in the CoE dungeon was merely more of a surgical construct as opposed to a layering of dragon corruption.

@Ratphink, I’m kinda tired, but your point doesn’t seem clear. Kuunavang was corrupted by Shiro/Abaddon, sure. But Glint was corrupted by Kralk. If what your point is is that a being can’t be doubly corrupt, we don’t really have proof of this. We can’t compare God and Dragon corruption to each other
@Narcemus, I think you’re talking about Subject Alpha. They don’t really explain what it is (at least, I haven’t found much), but since it’s an Inquest lab, and they’re experimenting on dragon powers, it’s highly likely that it was just a conglomeration of dragonic energies. So more surgical in a way

Yes, couldn’t remember the name, and sadly haven’t found a good group to play it thru myself.

Personally, I don’t know where this concept that dragon minions can’t be corrupted came from. It’s one of the lynchpins of the “the Pale Tree is a dragon (champion)!” theory, but I haven’t seen anything to say they can’t be corrupted, and as Narcemus says there’s evidence that something can be corrupted by multiple dragons.

If preexisting corruption provides protection against further corruption, it may only be in a sense that the two corruptions compete for control – but corruption still occurs and one dragon can steal control over another. When relating to the Affliction, there’s also an element that as far as we know the Affliction isn’t draconic in nature. Possibly more importantly, though, is that Kuunavang is the only entity we know of that has survived becoming Afflicted and returned to her former form, and from what we see in Unwaking Waters all that required was beating her up hard enough* – this might be an indication that she does have the anti-corruption properties that Ratphink observed a lack of.

*I have a theory on this that the Affliction on Kuunavang only went ‘skin deep’ – her core was still her true self and what we were doing in that mission was destroying enough of the Affliction that her true self could regain control.

Just jumping back on here real quick to point out that Glint was never ‘corrupted’. She was a Dragon Champion created by Kralk to watch over him as he slept. Also I appreciate the feed back people posted in relation to the whole corruption thing. I’m not exactly able to play the game at the moment (the traveling potato I have can’t effectively run the game), so I’m more or less drawing most of my lore from threads on these boards along with other sites. :P

Which is also why I wanted to ask about the Corruption, because a lot of people keep bringing that one up. Unfortunately I never got a chance to play CoE before I started backpacking, so am unaware of what precisely goes on in that Dungeon besides a vague understanding of Asura experimenting with Dragon corruption.

After doing some research and reading the post here. I think that Kunnavang is NOT associated with the elder dragons. (At least not 250 years ago – the time of Factions). Who knows between then and now we will just have to see.

My Theory is based on several things. There are a lot of real world associations in GW, for example the Charr being very “Roman” in there structure, and being highly militaristic. There are Chinese zodiacs that correspond to the Canthan New Year. (In real life and in GW 1 it is currently the year of the dragon.)

Looking at real life fables, stories, lore, and legends. For the most part Western dragons have been shown as malevolent / evil, and Eastern dragons have been benevolent. There are similarities between Tyria – Europe, and Cantha – Asian cultures.

Based on quest and dialogue in GW 1 (wiki Saltspray, Kunnavang, Albax, Jade Wind for sources)

1. Seems that all Saltspray dragons were benevolent before the Jade wind.
2. Upon Shiros’ death the Jade Wind happened.
3. The Jade Wind caused all saltspray dragons to become corrupted except Albax, and Kunnavang
4. The floating Harvest Temple fell trapping Kuunavang underneath it
5. Over time Shiro’s influence corrupted Kuunavang – This being only “skin deep” that her heart / core was not corrupted.

We free her from this corruption in a mission in GW 1, and she goes on to help us fight Shiro

What is also interesting is that is seems that uncorrupted Saltspray dragons could use there powers to cause “misfortune / bad luck” to happen in a form of a curse.

This is seen in the quest “If It Weren’t for Bad Luck….”

I think at the moment it would be safe to say that Kuunavang is not associated with the Elder dragons. Mostly due to the difference in how dragons are viewed between Tyria and Cantha.

You could have made the same arguments for Glint, it wasn’t until the book “Edge of Destiny” that we learn of her former association with the Kral.

I am very interested in going to Cantha to see the changes and to see where the story will take us.

Maybe Kuunavang didn’t have an Elder Dragon. A quote from Warden Illyra in the Arah Forgotten path:

Glint remained in crystalline form, but she regained her free will and identity.

Regained being the operative word. That means that at some point before being made a champion, Glint wasn’t a dragon champion. So that means that there may have been numerous dragons and drakes as a race, instead of all of them being tied to the big nasty ones.

its not tied to an elder dragon, there are plenty of dragons not tied to them, cantha was likely to have dragons, hurrdurr