Guild Wars 2

I have heard a Divinity Guide NPC talking about King Roderick and Grand Wizard Garren. How was King Roderick related to Queen Jennah? I’m curious who ruled before Jennah because I cannot find a royal mausoleum in the game, and Jennah has not talked about her parents either.

The OP quotes the sole mention of this guy in the game.

Given the timeline, he’d have to be Jennah’s father or grandfather (unless her uncle or some such took the throne before her father). All depending on how long her father reigned – as the date given for Roderick is 51 years prior to Jennah taking the throne, and we know that her father died for a few years before she was old enough to take the throne.

The Krytan royal lineage as we know is:

• King Mazdak, first king, ruled prior to Exodus, son of (stupid censor) King Doric and a former prince of Orr.
• Oswald’s father, reign unknown, full name unknown.
• Oswald Thorn, reign ended roughly 825 AE.
• Oswald’s cousin, reign unknown, name unknown.
• King Jadon, reign ended in 1070/1071 AE when he fled the throne. Father of Salma.
• Salma, crowned in 1079 AE, is said to have had a long reign (known to have fully united Kryta in 1088 AE).
• King Baede, reigned no later than 1220 AE and died in 1256 AE. Had 3 children – Edair and Emilane, and an elementalist oldest son.
• King Roderick, known to have reigned in ~1265 AE
• Jennah father, name unknown, reign unknown. Died a few years before Jennah was able to take the throne (during which time Ministry took over).
• Queen Jennah, crowned in 1316 AE.

What makes most sense would be that Roderick reigned from 1256 to 1305 or some such, being Jennah’s father and Baede’s eldest son.

I would assume it was Jennah’s dad? I do find it kind of odd that her parents are never mentioned anywhere, despite the fact that they must have done a lot for Kryta.

There is definitely a relation, being that all Krytan rulers are descendants okitteng Doric. Exactly what relation he is to Jennah, though, I couldn’t tell you (as I don’t recall any mention of him outside of the DR gardens and I can’t find anything on the web). She’s a direct descendant of Queen Salma – so it’s likely I guess that he also has a direct link to Jennah since he’s somewhere in between.

Salma took the throne officially 1079 AE (or at least took Lion’s Arch throne too). There was Prince Edair (don’t recall mom/dad’s name if it was even mentioned in SoS) in 1256 AE. Leaves a lot of holes for who was in charge since Salma, sadly.

I wrote a nice post, which got lost due to a web error. So here goes the summary:

King Baede reigned until 1256 AE, when he died. Prince Edair was named heir to the throne, but we never see him being coronated. This was exactly 70 years ago.

King Roderick is said to have built the gardens over 60 years ago. So this leads me to believe Edair either, never reached the throne and one of his siblings was crowned, or his reign was a really short one. He was reckless and mad for war, I doubt he would have stayed long on a throne room watching life go by.

In Sea of Sorrows, it is mentioned the eldest (son of) King Baede was an elementalist… so I’d imagine he would be connected to Grand Wizard Garren somehow. Whatever happened to Edair, he was the next in heritage line. He had no military affiliations nor war intentions, so it’s highly likely he lived a long life

In conclusion, I do believe King Roderick was Jennah’s father.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The OP quotes the sole mention of this guy in the game.

Given the timeline, he’d have to be Jennah’s father or grandfather (unless her uncle or some such took the throne before her father). All depending on how long her father reigned – as the date given for Roderick is 51 years prior to Jennah taking the throne, and we know that her father died for a few years before she was old enough to take the throne.

The Krytan royal lineage as we know is:

• King Mazdak, first king, ruled prior to Exodus, son of (stupid censor) King Doric and a former prince of Orr.
• Oswald’s father, reign unknown, full name unknown.
• Oswald Thorn, reign ended roughly 825 AE.
• Oswald’s cousin, reign unknown, name unknown.
• King Jadon, reign ended in 1070/1071 AE when he fled the throne. Father of Salma.
• Salma, crowned in 1079 AE, is said to have had a long reign (known to have fully united Kryta in 1088 AE).
• King Baede, reigned no later than 1220 AE and died in 1256 AE. Had 3 children – Edair and Emilane, and an elementalist oldest son.
• King Roderick, known to have reigned in ~1265 AE
• Jennah father, name unknown, reign unknown. Died a few years before Jennah was able to take the throne (during which time Ministry took over).
• Queen Jennah, crowned in 1316 AE.

What makes most sense would be that Roderick reigned from 1256 to 1305 or some such, being Jennah’s father and Baede’s eldest son.

In Sea of Sorrows it’s mentioned “three fine sons and daughters”, but this might be some odd wording, since its understood as if there’s at least two sons (we know this for a fact) and at least two daughters. English is not my native language, so I might have got it wrong, but in spanish translates to at least four children.

Also, mind if you give sources to the dates and such? Personally Google hasn’t helped me to bring answers to this nor the information I’ve gathered in game. Might have not taken the correct human storyline plots to find this.

Also, a bit of a derailment here, but in Gendarran Fields there’s a Whispers Agent in Applenook that mentions Mazdak being a champion from Ascalon. I’m not entirely sure this is correct in some way, the way Charr sees it or a typo from the writing team.

I read a lower line that just makes mention of the eldest son being an elementalist and Emilane being a ranger (kindasorta). How Emilane’s talked about sounds like she’s the only daughter though – “They’re scholars. The oldest boy’s an elementalist… What’s the princess? The girl with the really curly hair?” The use of ‘the princess’ implies to me that there’s only one.

However, the mention of three fine sons and daughters is, in full “Three fine sons and daughters to choose from, and Baede chooses Edair?” This implies that in total there are three; it’d be synonymous with saying “three fine children”. It’s an odd way of writing it out, but when using “sons and daughters” in this sense typically means “children” rather than “at least two sons and at least two daughters.”

As for dates – King Mazdak comes from sylvari lvl 28 Priory storyline and an interview between GuildMag and Anet (the latter saying that it was a prince of Orr who founded Kryta; the former saying that Mazdak founded Kryta while humanity was young on Tyria), and there’s an Orrian History Scroll in Shelter Docks, Malchor’s Leap which also says king Doric sent people to Kryta and Ascalon. Oswald Thorn’s reign end date is from last Halloween which says he died 500 years ago (it’s likely rounded so no exact date is known though). Jadon’s date is from GW1, he fled during the Charr Invasion which took place between 1070 and 1071. Salma’s is from the novel timelines and War in Kryta from GW1. Baede is from Sea of Sorrows. Roderick is from the line quoted above. Jennah’s father is from the Dead Sister storyline’s final step (gotta talk to Logan before fighting bandits). Jennah is from Queen’s Jubilee content.

As to the Whispers agent… can’t explain. But he doesn’t say Mazdak himself is a champion from Ascalon, technically speaking – he just says that there’s a tomb to the north of an “ancient war leader of Ascalon.” It likely may be a remnant from earlier development that got overlooked – there’s quite a bit of that among the Whispers dialogues, interestingly enough – or a typo. Or more than just Mazdak was buried there (which is true…).

Edair’s reign must have been short if Roderick was already on the throne ten years after Baede’s death. Maybe Roderick is that elementalist son they were talking about in SoS ?
I wonder what happened to Edair, probably got killed in some battle judging by the character.

As for the tomb of Mazdak, my impression is that Anet has a tendancy to twist the original purpose of a place to accomodate the story when using it as a personnal story. What I mean is that it feels like they tend to choose whatever random place looks nice enough to put some story in it. The place is only what it is in the personnal story for the duration of the instance, and then it returns to its former state in the open world with absolutely no mention of the lore developped in the personnal story.
You see that in the first Priory mission. You arrive at this mine that is clearly a dredge mine, but Sieran somehow sees a dwarven mine and never notices how it is clearly dredge until they get under her feet. To me, Anet just took some place that was already created and used it anyway instead of trying to build something that would look dwarven on the outside and dredge on the inside.
So yeah… the mini-dungeon in Gendarran Fields probably only is the tomb of Mazdak when playing the sylvari personnal story.

Nothing says Edair was actually crowned king. Just that he was named heir when Baede died. If Edair died before coronation, gave up his right after the fiasco of the assault on Lion’s Arch, or was even denied such because of it…

And I disagree with what you said about the personal story. Most dredge mines are actually dwarven mines that were continued by the dredge. Hence why even in the open world, many of them hold dwarven artifacts. The one you talk about that Seiran calls a dwarven mine is Molent Summit – and if you look on the wiki’s article, you will see an event that takes place there titled Search rubble for Deldrimor artifacts to give to Scholar Alil Rodez. So in that particular case, that “clearly a dredge mine” is in fact a former dwarven mine.

There are some dredge mines that are named after dwarven mines when they seem to be ill located to have been a part of the dwarven mine from GW1. Copperhammer Mines being the big one in my book.

While I don’t recall where Copperhammer Mines is in GW2 off the top of my head (I tend not to spend much time in the lower Shiverpeaks… just not interesting to me), it should be kept in mind that the scaling differs between games so placements will be altered with just that idea.

In GW2 it is located pretty much directly west of Sector Zhul. This would place it southwest of the Granite Citadel. It would be practically in the middle of Grenth’s Footprint, or perhaps Talus Chute. It could be stated that they are connected to the location much further east underground and such, but more than likely it was just meant as a reference to GW1.

I think what Tauril was saying was that in the quest, you are told that a earthquake had just opened up an old dwarven mine, and then after you race to get there Sieran complains that you weren’t fast enough and the dredge beat you to it… but the entire place is composed of dredge bores and dredge machinery, so that doesn’t make sense.

I agree that there are some jarring disconnects between the overworld and the personal story- a couple of things that stand out in my mind are the sylvari settlement that goes by a different name in each, and the “Flame Legion” camp in the personal story that is a Pact camp- they didn’t even bother to change the tents. I would not be particularly surprised if the Provernic Crypt were one of those places… however, my take on it is that Mazdak likely was the war leader from Ascalon. The issue has been muddied something fierce, but what little we have from ancient human history suggests that Orr broke free from Ascalon, and not the other way around. Therefor, and especially if this was before the Exodus, Mazdak’s royal blood would have made him Ascalonian- if I’m putting the pieces together right. Again, a lot of weird things have been done to the early human timeline since GW2 was released.

I took the earthquake to be a misinterpretation of the dredge mining opening to the surface.

I don’t recall any sylvari settlements which get a name change. Mind pointing them out exactly?

Not sure which Flame Legion camp you’re talking about either. Only interaction between Pact and Flame Legion in the personal Story is Fixing the Blame which per the wiki at least only mentions Pact camps (though I’ve never done that step so…).

As to Mazdak:

Trahearne: Now I recognize these markings! Mazdak bought the first human settlers to Kryta, from Orr. No wonder he is so powerful.
Trahearne: As a mortal, he lived in Orr – while the dragon slept, hidden deep beneath the ground.

Mazdak is from Orr. I’m not sure how his placement would make him Ascalonian to you anyways, since humanity originated from Orr on the Tyrian continent (that is, they sailed to Orr then went up to Kryta and Ascalon). I’m guessing you thought such because King Doric was crowned in Ascalon?

Furthermore:

“This is the crypt of Mazdak, royal son of Orr, who came to these shores so that humans may raise a new nation: Kryta.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Captain_Bragen

“Doric was the first king of Tyria. His kingdom encompassed the lands we now know as Orr, Ascalon and Kryta. According to the ancient scroll. all human royalty descends from this first king.”
“Doric created the human system of governance: he sheltered his people, first in Orr, then as the population grew, sent them out into Tyria with his blessing.”
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Orrian_History_Scrolls#A_Land_of_Kings

“What the human’s not telling you, Centurion, is that the nations of Orr and Kryta were at war when Lion’s Arch was built. That’s why they put it behind the natural fortifications of those stone escarpments.”
Sea of Sorrows novel, page 92

“There’s a story in another part of the game about, I believe he was the first king of Kryta. The son of Orr, the prince of Orr, who left Orr to settle that part of the mainland.”
" I think that when the prince who left Orr to establish Kryta, when he went to do that, by doing that he – I want to say he completely left the claim to the Orrian throne, and he certainly has a bloodline to it. But I think that the distance between the two thrones is going to be too disparate for her to just step up and say ‘I own that.’ "
http://www.guildmag.com/magazine/issue9/interview.htm

Slap all this together and you get:

Mazdak was the son of (darn censoring) King Doric who established Krytan; when he did he went to war with Orr for unknown reasons. Official records say that Doric sent humanity out to establish Kryta and Ascalon, implying that Mazdak was exiled. Perhaps willingly given Ree’s statement of “he completely left the claim to the Orrian throne.”

Gleaner’s Cove, on Sandycove Beach, is referred to as Aron’s Woodlot in two different storylines (the White Stag and Shield of the Moon).

Yeah, Fixing the Blame- the wiki actually does talk about the Flame camp, in the dialogue section. I didn’t notice that the quest objectives called it a Pact camp- that’s just more aggravating- but in the quest itself it is made clear that it was supposed to have been a Flame camp. Same with the journal.

As to Mazdak, those first two come from a quest I haven’t done, so I am willing to concede the point. The history scrolls were part of the weirdness I was talking about. The novel excerpt does not say when Lion’s Arch was founded, and I wasn’t putting too much confidence in the interview because it sounded like Ree was having difficulty recalling what exactly had been laid down in-game.

I’d place the first case as a situation of name changing during development combined with oversights. As I said before, there’s some out-of-the-way Whispers dialogue that does this already. One case is a Whispers agent in Lion’s Arch calling the Trader’s Forum by its early demo name – The Agora.

For the case of Fixing the Blame, though again I haven’t played through it, it seems to be a case of the Flame Legion taking over the Pact base.

The novel does say when Lion’s Arch was founded – I just didn’t include it as it is a separate line and wasn’t relevant, in my view, to Mazdak directly. For sources of Lion’s Arch’s founding to being pre-Exodus:

“Lion’s Arch had stood since the days humans first colonized the nation of Kryta, like a foundation stone of the kingdom, and of civilization itself.”
Sea of Sorrows, page 5

“The seat of power in Kryta, Lion’s Arch housed the royal palace okitteng Doric and his line until after the last Guild War.”
Guild Wars Prophecies, Lion’s Arch town description

That last line is kind of interesting, implying that for one reason or another, King Doric in his lifetime had used the city as the place of his palace. The most logical explanation would be that either Mazdak didn’t establish Kryta immediately with conflict, it is a generalization for Doric’s bloodline (meaning Doric himself never used it as his palace – this is most likely IMO), or that Mazdak lost the war (by choice or outright defeat) and Doric then used the palace to govern Kryta more personally until his death in 1 BE.

While yes, Ree did seem to be uncertain of what she was saying – being on the spot and unable to double-check sources can easily lead to such even for someone who’s job is to keep continuity with the lore, when it comes to such out of the way lore – however what she says still lines up pretty well with what we’re told elsewhere. That Mazdak, son of Doric, succeeded from Orr with hostility.

Even without the interview, we can easily come to that conclusion.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I read a lower line that just makes mention of the eldest son being an elementalist and Emilane being a ranger (kindasorta). How Emilane’s talked about sounds like she’s the only daughter though – “They’re scholars. The oldest boy’s an elementalist… What’s the princess? The girl with the really curly hair?” The use of ‘the princess’ implies to me that there’s only one.

However, the mention of three fine sons and daughters is, in full “Three fine sons and daughters to choose from, and Baede chooses Edair?” This implies that in total there are three; it’d be synonymous with saying “three fine children”. It’s an odd way of writing it out, but when using “sons and daughters” in this sense typically means “children” rather than “at least two sons and at least two daughters.”

As for dates – King Mazdak comes from sylvari lvl 28 Priory storyline and an interview between GuildMag and Anet (the latter saying that it was a prince of Orr who founded Kryta; the former saying that Mazdak founded Kryta while humanity was young on Tyria), and there’s an Orrian History Scroll in Shelter Docks, Malchor’s Leap which also says king Doric sent people to Kryta and Ascalon. Oswald Thorn’s reign end date is from last Halloween which says he died 500 years ago (it’s likely rounded so no exact date is known though). Jadon’s date is from GW1, he fled during the Charr Invasion which took place between 1070 and 1071. Salma’s is from the novel timelines and War in Kryta from GW1. Baede is from Sea of Sorrows. Roderick is from the line quoted above. Jennah’s father is from the Dead Sister storyline’s final step (gotta talk to Logan before fighting bandits). Jennah is from Queen’s Jubilee content.

As to the Whispers agent… can’t explain. But he doesn’t say Mazdak himself is a champion from Ascalon, technically speaking – he just says that there’s a tomb to the north of an “ancient war leader of Ascalon.” It likely may be a remnant from earlier development that got overlooked – there’s quite a bit of that among the Whispers dialogues, interestingly enough – or a typo. Or more than just Mazdak was buried there (which is true…).

Thanks for clarifying the sons & daughters part, that had me confused so I assumed they just didn’t mention the other children.

Ah, “Dead Sister”, haven’t done that one. Good to know that part and the ones from GW1 where I’m not at still. I find it odd there’s no in-game historical royal line anywhere or in any way – as far as I know. Would be interesting to have a concise timeline about that from Kryta, Ascalon and Orr.

And yes, I’m inclined to believe it’s an overlook as well.

They probably don’t have an in-game historical royal line shown so that they can alter it as they wish.