Guild Wars 2

Hi I was hoping I could pick someones brain about a few things.

1. We already know of all the elder dragons from the Omadd’s machine vision, correct? There aren’t likely any other elder dragons out there?
2. All spheres of influence/magic are covered by the elder dragons we know about?
3. If #1 is true, why did they all fall asleep right around core Tyria? Why not Cantha or one of the unexplored continents?
4. Did the elder dragons travel across the entire planet last time they awoke? Did they destroy the unexplored continents and then return to core Tyria?
5. How exactly were the bloodstones created? The information from the GW1 wiki contradicts the information we have learned from recent GW2 content. Were they made by seers/mursaat to hide magic from elder dragons? Or were they in fact made by the human gods using king Doric’s blood as a way to split schools of magic apart? Was this retconned, or is the contradiction actually because we don’t really know and the story is making it ambiguous?
6. Where does Leyline magic come from?
7. When an elder dragon eats the magic, where does it go?
8. Why can’t other creatures eat magic (or can they?).

Thanks in advance!

1. Yes. There’ve been a few places, Omadd’s machine being the most prominent, where we’ve been given the number six.

2. … kind of? ‘Spheres of influence/magic’ have only been presented to us in the context of attributes of a dragon, so there’s not really any meaning to the phrase in other contexts right now. It’s a little like asking if all the faces of dragons are attached to dragons.

If you mean kinds of magic more generally, the answer is probably no. There are ways of dividing magic that don’t correspond well to the dragons- the four bloodstone schools, for instance, or the seven or so spellcasting professions.

3. Unknown, but the common assumption is it’s because of the bloodstone. At the end of their last cycle, all of the remaining magic- that is, dragon food- was gathered up and locked away in an object that is believed to have been on the Tyrian continent, so it stands to reason that they’d head that way to look for it.

4. Not clearly known, but a lot of the language used suggests so- the various sources that say the dragons ‘wipe out all life/civilization/magic’. It’s unclear whether there’s specific evidence pointing to that or if it’s just the assumption of Priory scholars extrapolating from what they see in the Tyrian continent.

At any rate, there’s no reason we know of that they wouldn’t have spread out, and even now one or two (Bubbles, maybe Kralkatorrik) are outside the boundaries of the in-game map.

5. They were definitely made by the Seers. Currently, the lore is that the version from GW1 was a human myth that proved false, kind of like how they believed their gods created Tyria. That said, while we don’t know how the Seers created the bloodstone, the Forgotten say it required ‘divine resources’, meaning there may still be room for the human gods to have played a role.

Needless to say, this is one of the more hotly disputed topics on this forum.

6. It leaks out of sleeping dragons, who then eat it when they wake up. We don’t know where it came from originally. More recently, the levels of ley magic have surged because killing dragons (and exploding bloodstones) seems to release their contents all at once.

7. Into the dragon, from where the dragon can use it (most notably in the creation of minions) or hold onto it until they fall asleep, after which it slowly leaks back out.

8. Unknown. We do have examples of it happening outside of dragons- imps, for instance, and it seems that any dragon minion can do it regardless of what they were in life. As far as we can tell, though, it’s just a different kind of resource that some Tyrian creatures are able to take advantage of. It’s a bit like asking why humans can’t digest cellulose.

Xenon.4537:

Hi I was hoping I could pick someones brain about a few things.

1. We already know of all the elder dragons from the Omadd’s machine vision, correct? There aren’t likely any other elder dragons out there?
   Dragons, yes, Elder, no
2. All spheres of influence/magic are covered by the elder dragons we know about?
   There are six domains, the dragons who control this domain are called the Elder
3. If #1 is true, why did they all fall asleep right around core Tyria? Why not Cantha or one of the unexplored continents?
   This is just speculation, but they fell asleep because the Bloodstones were made to seal all the magic in the world. Propably they acknowledged that trouble was rising for them, so they started heading towards Tyria, but couldn’t prevend the activation of the Bloodstones. Again, just a theory, but it would explain why they were somewhat close. Maybe it was infighting that prevented them from stopping the Bloodstones
4. Did the elder dragons travel across the entire planet last time they awoke? Did they destroy the unexplored continents and then return to core Tyria?
   There is absolutely no way of knowing what they did before the Bloodstones. Maybe they were never as ravanous as we think of them now. Back then, no one could resist them, so maybe they just napped away while eating magic. They never had to fight, destroy any opposition, they were at the top of the food chain. The lion who sleeps all day and eats a deer in the evening
5. How exactly were the bloodstones created? The information from the GW1 wiki contradicts the information we have learned from recent GW2 content. Were they made by seers/mursaat to hide magic from elder dragons? Or were they in fact made by the human gods using king Doric’s blood as a way to split schools of magic apart? Was this retconned, or is the contradiction actually because we don’t really know and the story is making it ambiguous?
   They were made by unison of the elder races, we know that much as a fact. But besides that, every race has their own way of recording history, and will ammend this to their views, beliefs, etc. Hence, there’s no way of saying anything with certainty. What we learned in GW1 isn’t necessarily wrong, it was simply the Seers’ version of hisotry, and human records. The Bloodstones were made by the elder races. They were later found the human gods who took them to Arah. Here Abaddon unleashed the seal, effectively causing the great Guild Wars, whose namesake of the game, is the event that caused all trouble we’re dealing with (directly, or indirectly). King Doric’s blood was used to reseal the stones (partially) and it was only from this moment on that they were called the Bloodstones.
6. Where does Leyline magic come from?
   It doesn’t come from anywhere. It’s like a nerve system of the planet. It was always here. We can drain magic out of it, pour magic into it, but the net magic flowing through the world will always be exactly the same, regardless of the state
7. When an elder dragon eats the magic, where does it go?
   It’s devourered and corrupted. After that, the dragon goes to sleep, magic seeps back into the leylines, and the cycle is continued. Dragons propably see us as leeches or parasites because we also drain the magic
8. Why can’t other creatures eat magic (or can they?).
   depends on the creature. Elementals are sentients born from abundant magic. Demons (I think) might be similar to elementals, but born from corrupted magic. The case is kind of a battle in linguistics, how do you discriminate between consuming magic, storing magic, using magic, and absorbing magic. We keep magic inside our bodies, but we don’t consume it, we only store it

Thanks in advance!

Disclaimer in advance, these are personal observations of history and events. It boils down to, even ingame, history is a flaky thing tainted with personal bias of the races and historians. no source is reliable from a historians point of view. We can only collect the archives, and record the matchings and contradicting writings

1. Yes, all sources says there are but six Elder Dragons. It should be noted that races of dragons existed at some point, though many have become extinct, and some of the Elder Dragons resemble some of these races to small extents – so it’s plausible that there could be more, just that there haven’t been in recorded history.

It should also be noted that Omadd’s Machine wasn’t showing the Elder Dragons, but rather six “bodies of power” which the Elder Dragons are tied to (which, combined with Tyria, comprises The All – which is a depiction of the inner workings of the world). The exact nature of these bodies of power are unknown – some (Priory norn guy in Hidden Arcana) speculate they’re spirit realms, others (jotun) speculate they’re stars, and others say they are the Elder Dragons themselves.

2. We don’t know what all the spheres of influence are. All we know is that every Elder Dragon has two spheres of influence.

3. First off, they weren’t – only four of six Elder Dragons fell asleep in continental Tyria (Jormag fell asleep far north of it, while the DSD awoke even further away; Jormag, however, immediately marched south upon awakening and did have some champions/influence in continental Tyria before hibernating). Speculation has it that continental Tyria was the “last bastion of magic” so to speak, which drew the Elder Dragons there. The Seers supposedly took all magic in the world and put them into the Bloodstone – though the Bloodstone seems to be “invincible” to the Elder Dragons (given that none of them have interacted with any directly, despite surrounding them), they likely sensed where magic was heading.

4. It should be noted that on top of Jormag and the DSD not falling asleep in continental Tyria, Mordremoth and Zhaitan has no known interaction with the continent prior to hibernation. Orr was seemingly part of Kralkatorrik’s territory, and the only other Elder Dragon with much interaction with the races of continental Tyria was Primordus. And what influence Jormag had, is very minimal at that. There was the battle between mursaat/Forgotten and Zhaitan, but we know neither where nor when that happened, but given that said battle apparently happened before the Forgotten freed Glaust and they did so in Arah, it’s unlikely the battle was in Orr (though what’s weird is that the source of said lore says the Forgotten went to the Crystal Desert – which didn’t exist at the time, and was part of Kralkatorrik’s territory).

So while we have no direct evidence of the Elder Dragons off in other lands (beyond Jormag and the DSD), we do have indirect evidence implying Zhaitan and Mordremoth were once in other lands beyond continental Tyria.

5. They were made by the Seers. GW1’s lore is basically “false history” – think of the phrase “history is written by the victors”; well GW2 presents previously unknown history that proves what was “known history” to be false. The Six Gods did not make the Bloodstone, they merely shattered it into five imperfect pieces and sealed it again with King Doric’s blood.

6. Ley line magic is just ambient magic in the world traveling through channels. Ultimately, it is “any magic in the world not held by a creature or object”. Elder Dragons do contribute to it largely, but they’re not the sole source – the Bloodstones were also said to be leaking magic, for example, and becoming weaker over the centuries (this being why secondary professions were possible in GW1), so they would also contribute to the ley lines.

7. Elder Dragons are basically sponges for magic. They eat it, and it stays within them. They can exude it in corruptive form to create minions and warp landscapes, or they can merely hold it in – while they sleep (or upon death), the magic leaks out however, like a sponge sitting or being squeezed (respectively).

8. Some can, such as demons, imps, and chak, but it’s unclear if anyone can feasibly do such. Best that we know (aka in the case of chak), it requires and unusual biology to consume (and safely store) magic.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

1. Yes, all sources says there are but six Elder Dragons. It should be noted that races of dragons existed at some point, though many have become extinct, and some of the Elder Dragons resemble some of these races to small extents – so it’s plausible that there could be more, just that there haven’t been in recorded history.

It should also be noted that Omadd’s Machine wasn’t showing the Elder Dragons, but rather six “bodies of power” which the Elder Dragons are tied to (which, combined with Tyria, comprises The All – which is a depiction of the inner workings of the world). The exact nature of these bodies of power are unknown – some (Priory norn guy in Hidden Arcana) speculate they’re spirit realms, others (jotun) speculate they’re stars, and others say they are the Elder Dragons themselves.

2. We don’t know what all the spheres of influence are. All we know is that every Elder Dragon has two spheres of influence.

3. First off, they weren’t – only four of six Elder Dragons fell asleep in continental Tyria (Jormag fell asleep far north of it, while the DSD awoke even further away; Jormag, however, immediately marched south upon awakening and did have some champions/influence in continental Tyria before hibernating). Speculation has it that continental Tyria was the “last bastion of magic” so to speak, which drew the Elder Dragons there. The Seers supposedly took all magic in the world and put them into the Bloodstone – though the Bloodstone seems to be “invincible” to the Elder Dragons (given that none of them have interacted with any directly, despite surrounding them), they likely sensed where magic was heading.

4. It should be noted that on top of Jormag and the DSD not falling asleep in continental Tyria, Mordremoth and Zhaitan has no known interaction with the continent prior to hibernation. Orr was seemingly part of Kralkatorrik’s territory, and the only other Elder Dragon with much interaction with the races of continental Tyria was Primordus. And what influence Jormag had, is very minimal at that. There was the battle between mursaat/Forgotten and Zhaitan, but we know neither where nor when that happened, but given that said battle apparently happened before the Forgotten freed Glaust and they did so in Arah, it’s unlikely the battle was in Orr (though what’s weird is that the source of said lore says the Forgotten went to the Crystal Desert – which didn’t exist at the time, and was part of Kralkatorrik’s territory).

So while we have no direct evidence of the Elder Dragons off in other lands (beyond Jormag and the DSD), we do have indirect evidence implying Zhaitan and Mordremoth were once in other lands beyond continental Tyria.

5. They were made by the Seers. GW1’s lore is basically “false history” – think of the phrase “history is written by the victors”; well GW2 presents previously unknown history that proves what was “known history” to be false. The Six Gods did not make the Bloodstone, they merely shattered it into five imperfect pieces and sealed it again with King Doric’s blood.

6. Ley line magic is just ambient magic in the world traveling through channels. The channels themselves (‘ley lines’) are circulatory, so there’s no beginning or end. But the “blood” for them (magic), ultimately, is “any magic in the world not held by a creature or object”. Elder Dragons do contribute to it largely, but they’re not the sole source – the Bloodstones were also said to be leaking magic, for example, and becoming weaker over the centuries (this being why secondary professions were possible in GW1), so they would also contribute to the ley lines.

7. Elder Dragons are basically sponges for magic. They eat it, and it stays within them. They can exude it in corruptive form to create minions and warp landscapes, or they can merely hold it in – while they sleep (or upon death), the magic leaks out however, like a sponge sitting or being squeezed (respectively).

8. Some can, such as demons, imps, and chak, but it’s unclear if anyone can feasibly do such. Best that we know (aka in the case of chak), it requires and unusual biology to consume (and safely store) magic.

Thank you guys this info helps me a lot! I’ve always been most intrigued by what other parts of the world might be like and understanding how the dragons affect the world goes toward that. Like I want to know if there are possibly ancient civilizations that survived the elder dragons because they exist on the other side of the planet and went unnoticed. And that makes me wonder how advanced they might be.

By the way about #6 “where does ley line magic come from?” I seem to remember a WP video or maybe it was just some old speculation years ago that stuck in my head… For some reason I thought the magic was slowly seeping into Tyria from other planes (such a underworld, fissure of woe, realm of torment, etc) and the entry points into Tyria is where the leylines are. After that the dragons eat it, and when they do it gets sent back to whichever realm corresponds to their sphere of influence (magic consumed by Zhaitan ends up in underworld for example). Is this theory demonstrably false?

@Aaron Ansari – On question #2 what I meant is that Zhaitan represents death magic, Primordus is fire magic, Jormag is frost magic, etc. Therefore every school of magic is represented by an elder dragon. The reason I asked is because I think its unlikely Anet will add new elder dragons if they already used all the major archetypes.

That was a theory presented but it literally has no support, and we know that the Elder Dragons release magic into Tyria (have known since Season 1). So yes, it is demonstrably false – the theory I saw that presented “magic is added from the Mists” also stated that it is partially destroyed by the Elder Dragons as well.

And about the Elder Dragons ‘representing magic’ – we don’t really know that’s for certain. Taimi does speculate that “all magic is dragon magic” but that goes against a lot of old sources and haven’t really been proven. Further, there’s a lot more magic than the elements, which the Elder Dragons focus on (sans Zhaitan and Mordremoth so far), and for mortals there’s no real division between fire, ice, and air (Primordus, Jormag, and speculatively Kralkatorrik).

With Taimi’s claims of the Elder Dragons’ magic countering each other, if it was also normal magic then an Elementalist would be countering him/herself 24/7 (and as shown in Episode 3, such countering results in explosions – which makes Taimi’s claim that Mordremoth ate some Zhaitan magic unrealistic, especially since Jormag putting both magic forms into a minion resulted in an unstable minion that died pretty easily when its minions were killed). So if Taimi were 100% right, then not only should Mordremoth have been unstable and getting harmed whenever a mordrem was killed, but elementalists should exhibit spontaneously combustion when they switch attunements (especially between fire and ice), sylvari shouldn’t be capable of becoming necromancers without tons of self-mutilations going on whenever casting a spell, and necromancers fighting rangers should result in explosive deaths.

I’d like to note, further, that there is no Elder Dragon of Light for which to share magic with Guardians/Monks/Paragons. Which call into suspect the notion that all magic is dragon magic even more, as there seems to be magic which the Elder Dragons do not utilize.

@Xenon Like Konig said, none of the dragons is associated with ‘healing/light/protection magic’ that guardians use. There’s also ‘spirit magic’ (different kinds used by ritualists and rangers), ‘Mists magic’ (revenants and possibly ritualists), ‘astral/celestial magic’ (druids and a select few Canthans), blood magic (necromancers), illusion magic (mesmers), and possibly chaos magic (also mesmers) and air magic (elementalists), depending on how you feel about some of what the Branded and Kralkatorrik do. That’s just the kinds available to playable professions past and present- the Forgotten had a whole kind of magic that was explicitly dragon-proof, for instance. In the big picture, it seems like the major attributes of the Elder Dragons represents a pretty small slice of mostly elemental magic.

That’s actually kind of odd to me that there is no healing dragon… What if it’s the water dragon we just haven’t seen yet? Dwayna is the human god of healing, but also shes related to water isn’t she?

Also about spirit magic. That depends… ritualist spirits are spirits of the dead. In that regard they are loosely related to necromancers. Ranger spirits on the other hand come from nature magic which was Mordremoth’s sphere.

Chaos/illusion/mesmer magic was also Mordremoth’s wasn’kitten Wasn’t he the “dragon of mind”?

As for the rest idk.

Nope. Dwayna is air. Water goes to Lyssa, and before her to Abaddon.

What ritualists and rangers do are very different- I’d be inclined to say that they’re entirely separate, if it weren’t for a line of profession lore in the GW1 days- but neither is represented by the dragons. Zhaitan can be linked to necromancers, but almost all of what he does would fall under death magic or curses- there’s precious little there dealing with spirits. Mordremoth, likewise, seems to have specifically dealt in ‘plant magic’, not exhibiting any of the spiritual aspects or harmony with fauna that is also included in nature magic. Instead of saying nature magic was within his sphere, it’d be more accurate to say that nature magic and his sphere partially overlapped.

Mordremoth was linked to Mind by the gods and the Priory, and he came close enough that I’d give him the mesmer’s domination magic, but there was no signs of chaos and not so much as a single illusion. Like Zhaitan, he might get partial credit, but there are extensive parts of the mesmer profession that were beyond his purview.

Ritualists called upon spirits from the Mists – in this respect, it’s less “spirit magic” and more “Mists magic” like revenants. It doesn’t really seem all that tied to necromancy beyond similar themes. Necromancers, after all, can only summon spirits after extensive rituals – but in the same light, we see non-necromancers do the same (and I don’t mean rangers).

Mordremoth was not “nature” – he was “plant” and there’s a difference in that it isn’t as encompassing as nature is (which includes not just plants, but animals, weather/seasons, and landscapes). He was mind, but there was nothing of his mind domain (which we saw as nothing more than telepathy, possession, and mind transference) that involved illusions or chaos magic.

Zhaitan had more dealings with illusions than any other dragon, but that’s just via his mesmer minions – little different from Jormag’s champions’ common use of telepathy (which made people wonder why Mordremoth was the “dragon of mind” and not Jormag).