Guild Wars 2

When Drakkar first corrupts Svanir, Jora was also affected but instead of becoming another champion of Jormag she simply lost her connection to Bear. It was only after Jora killed her brother that she was finally able to become the bear again. What did Drakkar do that was able to sever Jora’s bond with bear like that? Was it psychological on Jora’s part? Was Bear testing Jora or not giving her power until she righted her brother’s wrongs? Or does Jormag’s power have the ability to cut off a norn’s connection the Spirits of the Wild?

I’m asking this now because in some ways Jora’s experience seems similair to Ceara’s/Scarlet’s experience with the entity we assume is Mordremoth. Of course there are dramatic differences but the theme of being connected to a protective/guiding entity (the Pale Tree for the sylvari and the Spirits of the Wild for the norn) and losing that connection (forcibly in Jora’s experience, implied to be by choice in Scarlet’s experience iirc) is somewhat similair.

Did the entity sever or block Scarlet’s connection to the Pale Tree like Drakkar did to Jora’s connection to Bear?

Maybe Drakkar or Jormag didn’t like female norn as minions, if you notice only male norn become corrupted, so the effect of the corruption on female was to lose the bound with the spirits.

That’s what the Sons of Svanir think but I think that’s wrong. I think one of the writers said that female norn are corrupted but the males would kill or destroy them because Jora killed Svanir, so we just don’t see any. It’s not Drakkar or Jormag that discriminates, it’s the cult that worships him.

Because Svanir embraced the corruption and Jora withstood it. Svanir became ‘blessed’, Jora got ‘cursed’.

Correction: it seems that in GW1 the ability to transform was a favor of bear, Jora was defiled and lost that favor.

Belzebu.3912:

Maybe Drakkar or Jormag didn’t like female norn as minions, if you notice only male norn become corrupted, so the effect of the corruption on female was to lose the bound with the spirits.

Interestingly, Jormag does not show the same bias as its Son of Svanir followers; it has been known to corrupt all races and all genders.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/A_Spirit_of_Legend#Dragon

Beyond that, it was confirmed in this interview that female norn do get corrupted. It’s just that the Sons of Svanir kill them.

As to why Jora lost her ability to become the Bear and was not turned into an icebrood… Not really sure. Her curse was ended when she slew Svanir, so it’s rather unclear.

I totally forgot about that, about the SoS killing the females.

BTW, Jelle’s idea sounds plausible.

I don’t even know what that means (or where that comes from). Where does it say Bear no longer favoured Jora?

What does “defiled” mean?

Something happened to Jora on Drakkar lake, it seems weird for Bear to abandon her in her time of need. She didn’t turn her back on Bear or her people (admittedly she was hunting on a lake considered to be cursed but that’s more like playing with fire than it disrespecting the Spirits), she was exposed to dragon corruption and resisted it. Why would Bear make a conscious decision not to embrace Jora any more? It seems to me more like Bear couldn’t embrace Jora.

The Pale Tree could no longer reach Scarlet. It’s implied Scarlet is shielding herself intentionally, but is it possible she is “cursed” similar to how Jora was?

Jora: “I do not know what we contacted that day, but its energies nearly consumed us.”
Jora: “I resisted the power, and was cursed by it. I cannot embrace the wild. I can no longer become the bear.”
Jora: “My brother seized the power and went mad. He was transformed. He became the creature you fought.”
Jora: “My brother now raids the Norn settlements. He avoids me, though I pursue him.”
Jora: “I communed with the bear spirit. She wishes you to aid me.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jora%27s_Curse

I don’t think it was that Bear was out of favor with Jora, especially since Bear told Jora that she wanted the players to aid her.

And I don’t think whatever happened to Scarlet was the same as what happened to Jora. Jora was still able to commune with Bear, and there’s no mental connection (which is what the Dream kind-of-sort-of is) between them.

Well, Jora says:

“You mean Olaf and Sif? They are highly regarded among the Norn for their prowess, and favored by the bear spirit. Bear has granted them the power to take her favored form, the better to hunt and survive here! Someday, I shall regain that favor as well.”

This leads me to believe that Jora got defiled by Drakkar’s touch and by being defiled, lost Bear’s favor. To regain that favor she was required to slay Svanir and was allowed the help of humans.

Also: defiled is… like disgraced, dishonored.

Jelle.4623:

Well, Jora says:

“You mean Olaf and Sif? They are highly regarded among the Norn for their prowess, and favored by the bear spirit. Bear has granted them the power to take her favored form, the better to hunt and survive here! Someday, I shall regain that favor as well.”

This leads me to believe that Jora got defiled by Drakkar’s touch and by being defiled, lost Bear’s favor. To regain that favor she was required to slay Svanir and was allowed the help of humans.

She could be genuinely cursed by Svanir (or Jormag, whatever is going on) and just thinks Bear is mad at her. Sort of how a pet can fall and hurt themselves and think their owner is mad at them because of the pain of fall.

Except that in this universe Bear can communicate directly with her followers, and actually does so in the next quest. That barrier of miscommunication doesn’t seem likely.

I wonder… since it took killing Svanir to cure it, and not Drakkar, do you guys think Svanir could have somehow been the cause?

Maybe because Svanir was Jora’s brother, it wasn’t Jora that fell out of Bear’s favor, but all of her family because of what Svanir became.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Jora: “I do not know what we contacted that day, but its energies nearly consumed us.”
Jora: “I resisted the power, and was cursed by it. I cannot embrace the wild. I can no longer become the bear.”
Jora: “My brother seized the power and went mad. He was transformed. He became the creature you fought.”
Jora: “My brother now raids the Norn settlements. He avoids me, though I pursue him.”
Jora: “I communed with the bear spirit. She wishes you to aid me.”

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jora%27s_Curse

I don’t think it was that Bear was out of favor with Jora, especially since Bear told Jora that she wanted the players to aid her.

And I don’t think whatever happened to Scarlet was the same as what happened to Jora. Jora was still able to commune with Bear, and there’s no mental connection (which is what the Dream kind-of-sort-of is) between them.

What if communing with Bear is like physically visiting the Pale Tree? Scarlet doesn’t have her empathic/mental bond with the Pale Tree but she could certainly go and visit the Pale Tree and have a nice conversation over tea.

Jora could still commune with Bear (I assume that’s what the players do when they summon Bear before ‘Blood Washes Blood’) she just didn’t have that intrinsic bond any more. She was cut off somehow.

Keep in mind we don’t know for certain that Scarlet is cut off from the Pale Tree. It’s possible she could still re-open that connection if she wanted but instead Scarlet herself, using her own will, is cutting the Pale Tree’s bond to her. That was the feeling I got from the Wartower interview. What was going on in Scarlet’s mind is an annoying little mystery. I think the implication that sylvari are protected from something in their minds and Omadd’s machine removes that protection, that’s a mystery that they set up to expand on a lot more when we hopefully deal with Mordremoth and the sylvari from Malyck’s tree.

I still don’t think Bear herself withdrew her power from Jora. As Konig points out, Bear still helped her.

Jora: “I communed with the bear spirit. She wishes you to aid me.”

The quest ‘Blood Washes Blood’ is supposed to be Jora regaining her family’s honour, but she can become the bear again as soon as Svanir is dead (this happens before ‘Blood Washes Blood’).

The Spirits of the Wild are known to help the norn fight the dragons. Why would Bear in any way abandon Jora for being exposed to one?

RedStar.4218:

Maybe because Svanir was Jora’s brother, it wasn’t Jora that fell out of Bear’s favor, but all of her family because of what Svanir became.

This is what I believe also. Svanir’s corruption may have punished the whole family until the family set it right.

It’s good to see that Jora can once again become the bear. Now, mayhaps, she may regain her status. There is but one obstacle, one mountain she must yet climb. Her clan homestead is overrun with Charr. No respected Norn would allow the land to be violated by such beasts.

Jora: “I am Jora. My brother erred most grievously. I seek to redeem my family’s name.”
Egil Fireteller: “To rebuild your family’s name, you must regain your family’s homestead.”
Egil Fireteller: “Yet only tragedy may come from a home built with blood-stained hands.”
Egil Fireteller: “Wash clean your sins. Blood washes blood.”

My guess is yes, Svanir’s actions disgraced the whole family. Though killing her brother to lift the curse was also a kitten ing act in its own right.

If that were the case, wouldn’t the families of any norn who becomes a Son of Svanir be disgraced? Wouldn’t we hear more about norn who can’t embrace the wild or become the “insert animal form here”?

I don’t like the disgraced theory as the cause of her loss of powers because to me it doesn’t account for the fact that Jora was exposed to the same thing Svanir was when he was corrupted (it’s interesting he can still take on the form of a bear unlike Jora and I believe modern Svanir don’t use animal forms either?). I think the disgrace plot is just representing norn culture (similar to how Jora says the lake is “cursed” – like a child’s fairy tale to teach norn not to venture there, not because of a curse, but because there is a dragon champion that will corrupt them if they get too close).

Killing Svanir is what allows Jora to become the bear again, which seems curious because I can’t think of why killing him would free her (this is where the disgraced family theory makes sense but it’s not consistent with modern day norn nor does it make sense with how I personally understand Bear to view the norn). Why would his corruption have any bearing on her? Why was Svanir still able to take on a bear form?

Shiren.9532:

If that were the case, wouldn’t the families of any norn who becomes a Son of Svanir be disgraced? Wouldn’t we hear more about norn who can’t embrace the wild or become the “insert animal form here”?

Crack theory time- what if that is the case? In GW1, every norn we saw in a fight would immediately take on bear form. In GW2, it’s an incredibly rare talent outside of the shamans. The Sons of Svanir have grown into a sizable cult by now- what if so many norn have been cursed by such an association that it now seems normal, maybe so normal that they’ve forgotten why it happens.

/endcracktheory

Of course, none of that explains why Bear would curse someone by association, especially in norn culture. I think it much more likely that the “curse” originated from either Drakkar or Svanir.