Guild Wars 2

There are a lot of unanswered questions left in the 250 years between EOTN and GW2.
Like why are the dredge suddenly midgets? What happened to all the wide variety of dinosaurs, or the gargoyles, How did the Tengu band together.
But my question today is what happened to Kryta? When I started playing GW2 I didn’t really like Kryta, but I didn’t know why. I just realized what has been bugging me about the land of the humans. Kryta doesn’t look like the old kryta. I have been playing through prophecies again, and The Kryta back then is so tropical and beautiful. Is there in lore reason to why kryta suddenly looks a lot more foresty?

The old Kryta was more centered around Lion’s Arch, and Bloodtide Coast is still fairly “tropical”. Gendarran Fields technically should still be within the tropical range, but maybe a lot of the flora there got cleared for farming (and by the centaurs). The swampy region in the SW of Gendarran Fields still does give off a tropical vibe.

Then again, we do have an arctic region supposedly sitting right next to a tropical region, so don’t read too much into it.

Well, the Shiverpeaks have always been presented as Tyria’s equivalent of the Himalayas, which are effectively an alpine region right next door to (sub)tropical lowland India.

Regarding the flora, I have a couple of ideas:

The first is essentially that GW1 wasn’t truly representative. GW1 tended to have a lot of shortcuts in its presentation, one being that areas that were grouped under a certain region tended to have the same style regardless of whether it really made sense or not (Verdant Cascades anyone?). So in Kryta’s case, everything had the tropical look regardless of whether it was on the coast of the Sea of Sorrows (which was the majority of Kryta back then, and which is still shown as tropical now) or inland regions further north that might have been more temperate. The current arrangement of biomes might be less of a change per se, and more that they’re showing finer detail in the biomes.

The second is that the climate in the region has actually changed. We’ve seen some other more significant changes in climates (Mt Maelstrom in particular) and the geographical changes will also have had some significant effects on the climate. We’ve seen some significant geological activity since GW1 and changes in coastlines and river directions which will influence prevailing currents – it’s possible, for instance, that Kryta used to receive a warm current flowing into the Bay of Sirens, but events such as the Cataclysm and Joko’s diversion of the Elon disrupted that current causing a slight cooling of northern Kryta, allowing temperate flora species to outcompete tropical species. Finally, of course, we have strong indications that the gods did actually meddle in Tyria’s climate in GW1’s time, so it’s possible that they were artificially warming what was then northern Kryta and with their departure it cooled.

A lot can happen to a place in 250 years. North America looked almost nothing like it does today, in most places. Particularly the east coast. Earth worms (which died out in North America during the last ice age) were re-indroduced along with many crops and plants from Europe and many of the native plants were replaced by European ones. Cypress groves were choked out by voracious European vines and mosses in much the same way Kudzu is choking out many areas in the southern US today. So, it’s possible that large tracts of farming, clear cutting, warming from local volcanoes, and a higher sea level really altered the entire Krytan ecosystem.

@draxynnic

aka “global warming” :P

Also, the Cataclysm as well as the Rising of Orr, the centaurs wreaking havoc, Jormag, among others, would also have a dramatic effect on the eco systems, not only at the source, but in neighboring areas as well.

Note:

Flora = plants

Fauna = animals

draxynnic.3719:

Well, the Shiverpeaks have always been presented as Tyria’s equivalent of the Himalayas, which are effectively an alpine region right next door to (sub)tropical lowland India.

Regarding the flora, I have a couple of ideas:

The first is essentially that GW1 wasn’t truly representative. GW1 tended to have a lot of shortcuts in its presentation, one being that areas that were grouped under a certain region tended to have the same style regardless of whether it really made sense or not (Verdant Cascades anyone?). So in Kryta’s case, everything had the tropical look regardless of whether it was on the coast of the Sea of Sorrows (which was the majority of Kryta back then, and which is still shown as tropical now) or inland regions further north that might have been more temperate. The current arrangement of biomes might be less of a change per se, and more that they’re showing finer detail in the biomes.

The second is that the climate in the region has actually changed. We’ve seen some other more significant changes in climates (Mt Maelstrom in particular) and the geographical changes will also have had some significant effects on the climate. We’ve seen some significant geological activity since GW1 and changes in coastlines and river directions which will influence prevailing currents – it’s possible, for instance, that Kryta used to receive a warm current flowing into the Bay of Sirens, but events such as the Cataclysm and Joko’s diversion of the Elon disrupted that current causing a slight cooling of northern Kryta, allowing temperate flora species to outcompete tropical species. Finally, of course, we have strong indications that the gods did actually meddle in Tyria’s climate in GW1’s time, so it’s possible that they were artificially warming what was then northern Kryta and with their departure it cooled.

Maybe, at least it would make some sense. It is better then thinking they just wanted to make it look more like the prophecies starter area. The cooling effect could also be caused by the the push of Jormag, making the shiverpeaks colder.

Also, note that GW1 maps were just built different. Due to their strict pathing and other features, side areas could be designed to look thick and impassable. GW2 Kryta is almost entirely traversable, hence a sparser “foresty” feel as opposed to a dense jungle vibe.

Gulesave.5073:

Also, note that GW1 maps were just built different. Due to their strict pathing and other features, side areas could be designed to look thick and impassable. GW2 Kryta is almost entirely traversable, hence a sparser “foresty” feel as opposed to a dense jungle vibe.

It isn’t just that, there are less sandy beaches, and the trees are vastly different so is the general shrubbery and smaller plants. I understand the spreading out of trees and plants. But the very type of plants changed a lot.
I understand the changes they made where the trees are more spread out, I even understand why they made the hills smaller.

Gulesave.5073:

Also, note that GW1 maps were just built different. Due to their strict pathing and other features, side areas could be designed to look thick and impassable. GW2 Kryta is almost entirely traversable, hence a sparser “foresty” feel as opposed to a dense jungle vibe.

Not that Kryta had a thick jungle vibe. The zone boundaries in Prophecies were all either abrupt hills or valleys. It wasn’t until Istan (or perhaps Echovald?) that we saw vegetation used to define the limits of playable zones.

pdavis.8031:

@draxynnic

aka “global warming” :P

Also, the Cataclysm as well as the Rising of Orr, the centaurs wreaking havoc, Jormag, among others, would also have a dramatic effect on the eco systems, not only at the source, but in neighboring areas as well.

Partially where the idea came from, in fact – the concerns that global warming might disrupt the Gulf Stream and, ironically, make Western Europe more like Siberia (mostly on the same latitude!).

And yes, the rest might have a significant effect. Particularly the supernaturally cold water from the Cataclysm (which, it should be noted, Prophecies wouldn’t have allowed enough time for the vegetation to change in response to). Jormag’s actions could have resulted in a cooling of the ocean north of Kryta, while centaur activity might encourage a replacement of slower-growing species with faster-growing ones.

The redirection of the Elon could have had a substantial effect. Intuitively, this is a warm current, but if it’s creating a current flowing out that is competing with a warmer current floating in, this would lead to a cooling of the region now known as Kryta. Particularly if the Maelstrom region wasn’t warmed until a relatively recent eruption, and the flow had until then been going past frozen mountains. Furthermore, if it’s canon that Southsun has actually been there for a significant length of time and that the Risen threat simply stopped anyone from sailing out far enough to find it (rather than being a relatively recent appearance) than that would pretty much kill any current warming the Sea of Sorrows entirely.

I always thought the area between the southern Shiverpeak coast and the Crystal desert was weird anyways :/
That, and shouldn’t Kryta practically barren by now?! When Orr sank the first time, it should have drastically changed the current/temperature of the sea (less warm water being caught above the peninsula), then it just pops back up again 250-ish years later? I’m surprised Krytan wildlife can even deal with the constant change. But then, I guess I’m just being nit-picky

Global warming.

. . . no seriously, climate change due to things like Jormag’s freezing over of the northern Shiverpeaks, and Mount Maelstrom along with other destroyer nests warming things up? The change of where water is after Zhaitan rose Orr?

Probably changed quite a bit.

Prophecies was designed with the mindset of giving players a large variety of regions to explore, much like many fantasy genres. Prophecies was the very first game, so there likely wasn’t certainty that there’d be continuations let alone a return to Tyria. With Factions, we begin seeing ArenaNet going a more logical route with their geographical climates in that whole contents are themed to the same concept rather than each region being so.

Guild Wars 2 – and Eye of the North as well, technically speaking, is a bit of an act to consolidate the different climates.

There are still traces of tropical climate in GW2 Kryta – mostly around the Sea of Sorrows as explained by others – but quite a bit of it has been consolidated to be more logical – to look more on par to Ascalon, Verdant Cascades, and Charr Homeland, but not completely so, in order to retain a distinction between west of the Shiverpeaks and east of them.

Fun fact: there were traces on the Ring of Fire which indicate that it was tropical.

If you’re seeking a lore explanation, rather than a design one, then go with draxynnic’s second explanation as it makes a lot of sense. And on top of that:

• In the quaggan racial storyline, we learn that the waters as far south as Dredgehaunt Cliffs have become too cold for arctic quaggans due to Jormag’s influence pushing south. No doubt that also had an influence towards the west a bit as well, due to wind and water currents.
• Per Sea of Sorrows and sparse in-game dialogue – the validity of the former being questionable as it’s sailor tales – the sinking (and later, rising, per in-game) of Orr left the air and waters around Orr much colder than before, so any water currents pushing northward from there would no doubt be cooler.
• With Wintersday in GW2, we see no natural snow in Kryta – what little there was, was made by asuran snow devices. Which indicates that, as drax said, the gods did indeed mess with the weather while retaining their influence on Tyria 250 years ago (just as some folks said during Wintersday). Without that influence, the climate could easily be altered into its “natural” form.

Zaxares.5419:

Then again, we do have an arctic region supposedly sitting right next to a tropical region, so don’t read too much into it.

The Shiverpeaks are, in lore, the tallest mountains in the known world. They’re not an arctic region, so much as a “they’re so high up that it’s nearly continuously snowing there”. (Note the nearly)

Gendarran Fields doesn’t show this very well, sadly.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Not that Kryta had a thick jungle vibe. The zone boundaries in Prophecies were all either abrupt hills or valleys. It wasn’t until Istan (or perhaps Echovald?) that we saw vegetation used to define the limits of playable zones.

Maguuma did too, though usually on a raised land. But it was usually a combination of vegetation and raised/lower land or impassible streams – the purpose of the vegetation then was more to block out sight, to end the map sooner, rather than to block pathing. Usually.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

*In the quaggan racial storyline, we learn that the waters as far south as Dredgehaunt Cliffs have become too cold for arctic quaggans due to Jormag’s influence pushing south. No doubt that also had an influence towards the west a bit as well, due to wind and water currents.

I’d attribute that to local icebrood activity, since the arctic quaggans in Frostgorge say the water is nearly too warm to survive in.

But that still goes to show that Jormag’s influence is making the waters colder – regardlessof the why – and said cooling of waters, as well as blizzards, would affter climates elsewhere via currents.

Well, that’s really another strange thing. They claim that the water get warmer in Frostgorge (which should be closer to Jormag), but in the racial symphathy arc they are fleeing from corrupted ice which is coming from the south into their village (the ice appears during the story slowly from south to north in Dredgehaunt which has a higher distance to the speculated position of Jormag). Maybe dragons have less direct influence and bigger things are going on.

Ever since Scarlet was confirmed to be a minion of Mordremoth, I’ve suspected that the elder dragons are all minions themselves to some greater power. Recent Living Story elements are making me believe this even more. Perhaps the dragons are only in place to keep the world in balance, and the spread of corruption may be based on the ley line network rather than physical proximity to each dragon.

If the dragons are all part of balancing nature, perhaps their awakening had something to do with all the interesting creatures from GW1 disappearing. With Zhaitan slain, perhaps the world is out of balance now and corruption from the other dragons will be come more and more uncontrollable with each dragon killed off.

Regarding the changing landscapes of Kryta, I personally believe that is just human farmland development over several centuries of landscaping.

Where do you get implications that the ED’s are answering to something? I’m not doubting your claim. Just legitimately curious. I didn’t see it, so I may have just missed something.

The way it seems to me, is that the dragons don’t really have any sort of agenda. They just are. And maybe they have balancing side effects in their destructive tendencies? Maybe. I mean, a hurricane is just a hurricane. It exists because it does. it’s not sentient, and externally, all it appears to do is wreck stuff. But in reality, hurricanes are a result of warm air moving away from the equator and to the poles by huge amounts, thus the temperature of the world is more stabilized. (Again, none of this process is controlled or thought out. The Earth is not sentient and does not actively seek to move heat around, it’s just the nature of physics for heat and energy to move from areas of high concentration to areas of lower concentration) No one actively seeks to make these hurricanes, but they’re there nonetheless.

Omadd’s machine seemed to show all the dragons linked together as part of what the asura label the eternal alchemy. It’s all just speculation after that still, but I feel that the dragons having natural cycles of awakening and destruction seem to be part of some greater design. I would personally be disappointed if the whole point of the elder dragons was that they wake up, consume magic like simple-minded greedy dragons, then take another long nap.

In Guild Wars 1 we had amazing and epic enemies like Abaddon, who literally altered the lands into a nightmare with teeth tearing trough the fabric of reality. The main enemies of Guild Wars 1 (Mainly prophecies and Nightfall) were mysterious and wouldn’t appear until much later in the story. In Guild Wars 2 we are led to believe that we already know all the enemies that we face, and I would be disappointed if all we had to look forward to was fighting the next dragon on the list.

That kind of dragon hit list seems like a very poorly written story in my opinion, and already the Living Story is trying to fill itself with mysteries and plot twists that I don’t see fitting with the standard dragon hit list. Granted, this is all just speculation based on my own opinions.

The Elder Dragons have shown that they are not merely “simple-minded” but rather sapient, potentially very intelligent, but also simply uncaring beings. Though ArenaNet will never outright say such, they’ve given plenty of hints that point to the Elder Dragons each having unique personalities, tactics, and motivations – though their goal is, in a general sense, the same (consume the world), they go about it differently with different motivations.

Entering complete hypothesizing, the whole cyclic nature of the Elder Dragon seems to be a case of insufficient food for the number of predators in the area, so they hibernate to let said food regrow. In this case, there isn’t enough magic in the world to allow six (potentially seven or more) Elder Dragons roaming about the world of Tyria.

Words from Captain Whiting in Sea of Sorrows give heavy implications as to not just the nature of Zhaitan, but the world itself. “This is the time of the Elder Dragons. Thus begins the time of Zhaitan and of Orr. The day of their ultimate victory is close.” (page 426).

This single line points to two things: 1) That Zhaitan intends to reign, 2) That the land is “alive.”

Both are supported elsewhere. For example with the latter, we have the Pale Tree saying: “The soul of Tyria mourned as her children were cut down by the beast. The land wept, and the world shuddered. " (A Light in the Darkness) And an example of the former, there are a multitude of risen that point to two things about Zhaitan: 1) he intends to reign, 2) he and his minions offer reunion with loved ones/immortality via undeath. Some choice lines for both aside from Whiting’s above:

“You’ll join me in the service of the dragon, and we will again fight as one. We will serve Zhaitan forever.” – Sea of Sorrows, page 422, Bronn to his brother Grymm.
“The world will be reborn by the dragon’s will. Death is the beginning!” – Sea of Sorrows, page 423, again Bronn to his brother Grymm
“The Mists are filled with lies. Zhaitan is our only chance at immortality. Serve him!” – Cathedral of Silence story step, Risen Keeper of the Shrine
“My old master mocked my power. But Zhaitan gave me more!” – Kill the Kitah Conjurer dynamic event, Malchor’s Leap, Risen Kitah Conjurer
“Zhaitan’s chosen…never truly die…” – Kill the Kitah Conjurer dynamic event, Malchor’s Leap, Risen Kitah Conjurer
“I see in your heart that you have lost someone to Zhaitan. Someone named…<Mentor>. She/He is waiting for you now, beneath the dragon’s wings… All the death around you. All those who have gone before you. Come to Zhaitan, and find everything you have lost. You can be with them again. " – The Source of Orr story step, Sovereign Eye of Zhaitan
“Defilers! Poisoners! We see you. We know your foul intent. These waters must remain as they are — and you must die!” – The Source of Orr story step, Soverieng Eye of Zhaitan; the interesting bit is how the Sovereign Eye presents removing Zhaitan’s corruption as “poisoners”.

The issue with quoting Risen come for how they love to use lies to demoralize their foes, but there’s a heavy theme with individuals speaking of Zhaitan as a kind of savior from death and loneliness.

There are more for other dragons – particularly Jormag since we see the most of his minions aside from Zhaitan’s. Each minion speaks of shared traits to their dragon, and these traits differ from dragon to dragon.

So they do come off as more than merely “simple-minded” or even the direct statements of ArenaNet’s ’they’re little more than apex predators’. And while we know of all the Elder Dragons – more or less – we don’t know much about them, how they work, etc. And no one’s really said we’ll be killing all six in the end. I can easily see Primordus and the DSD remaining as present-in-the-background enemies (presuming that the game lasts that long, given the current rate of storytelling… At this rate, we’ll be in 2017 by the time we’re going after the third dragon).