Guild Wars 2

I know that Kormir absorbed his power, and he’s technically dead. But can a God truly die?

I mean, they could have completely eliminated him from GW2, but they include him in a few places, and at one point in your personal story, they force you to go through his temple in Orr.

There’s a mural in the Vizier’s Tower, which I suppose could have simply been done for continuity. But you don’t even see the Vizier’s Tower in the original Guild Wars, to my knowledge, so it could have been entirely left out.

Second, Zhaitan steals an ancient and powerful artifact or something from his temple. They could have very easily put this artifact in someone elses temple, there were five other gods who have temples in Orr, but they placed it in Abbadon’s temple.

They obviously put it there intentionally, but why? Why bring back any mention of Abbadon. Are they planning a comeback, somehow, or is this just to shroud him in intrigue and mystery?

I personally doubt they’re planning a comeback, but you never know – I don’t know what their plans are for the human gods in general. It’s more likely, though, that the references to Abbadon are just there because they fit the history while giving a shout-out to GW1 players. When the gods dwelled in Arah, Abbadon was one of them, before his fall, so he’d have his place with the other Five – although it seems they did a shoddy job of removing traces of him from Tyria after all.

Another possibility is that the personal story uses sites dedicated to Abbadon a lot because he was the God of Secrets and patron of magic. Of all the Six Gods of the time, his temples etc. would be the most likely to contain powerful artefacts. If Arah was a centre of power because it was atop Zhaitan’s resting place (like the asura’s Central Transfer Chamber tapped into Primordus’s latent energy) then Abbadon would be the one who made the most use of that, I figure.

I believe one of the designers has said in an interview that Abaddon is “dead and will not return” (I’m getting this from the GW1 wiki so I have no links on hand.) In all likelihood Aby and his temple in the Orr arc was a call back to 1 and it would make sense that his temple had a great store of magic, as Curuniel said.
While he may not be back as he was in 1 (alive) I wouldn’t say that his influence isn’t still still felt in Tyria. Margonites, while sterile, are incredibly long-lived so I wouldn’t be surprised if we ran into one.
(Also it may just be a coincidence in design choice, but does anyone else see the resemblance between shades/shadow fiends and Abaddon??)

I don’t know how to quote people so I’ll use @ signs.
@Curuniel, I find it unlikely that he has the most powerful artifacts. He may be the god of magic, but Grenth is the god of death and destruction. Dwayna is the leader of the gods and possibly the most poweful. Balthazar has probably refined the art of war to a science, so he probably has some nifty trinkets. Melandru is the oldest and wisest god, so it’s possible she has a few tricks up her sleeve too.

I would personally put my money on Grenth or Balthazar having the most destructive or powerful artifacts. While, as the god of magic, Abbadon assuredly has some very powerful artifacts, I haven’t seen any evidence that he is the most powerful.

@Xase, Margonites, I completely forgot about them! Margonites may be sterile, but I believe they can transform others into margonites, (I might be accidently making that up). But, as servants of Abbadon, if he’s still alive I’m sure they would be the ones to know. They seem to have been very quiet since the original Guild Wars… I wonder what they’re up to…

It was stated back in 2006 at Pax (and again later in an interview) that Abaddon is gone for good.

They may continue expanding his story, but it’ll all be about his past, or his servants (should any remain) or his servants’ past. Abaddon himself, unless they decide to go back on their word for this which I somehow doubt, will not return.

Aurum.8793:

I know that Kormir absorbed his power, and he’s technically dead. But can a God truly die?

You’re under the impression they are actually gods, and not just very powerful beings pretending to be deities.

Their power can be stolen, they can die, and none of them are creation deities. Honestly they sound way more like mortals that happened to be infused with a crazy amount of magic rather than gods.

The gods did not create Tyria, but that doesn’t mean they’re not gods. Maybe they’re not Gods with a capital G, but the difference between extremely powerful supernatural being and god (in a polytheistic fantasy setting) is a pretty vague one. Still, it is important to keep in mind that they’re not by any means the only extremely powerful supernatural beings out there, no matter what humanity might have assumed since they started worshipping the Six (then Five, then Six again).

So far almost every Guild Wars game(except prophecies apparently) has had something put into Guild Wars 2 as a tribute. All starting areas except Sylvari seem to have a statue of a hero from EOTN.

Thats probably what this is, but I see a lot of potential to bring Abbadon back.

Example, the collective power of his artifacts are used to resurrect him(although he is weaker)

As the OP said its just a bit weird saying a God can die.

The Human gods aren’t what we’re used to. They aren’t Abrahamic, in that they aren’t all-knowing, all-seeing, or all-powerful. They can die and they can have their power stolen. What we do know is that they’re extremely powerful, able to travel through the Mists at will, and that their blessings are very potent. We can also postulate that they have the power to create, based on the existence of their personal realms.

Regardless, they are not truly immortal. They may be timeless, but they can be harmed. Granted, they have to be severely weakened in order for us mortals to be able to really do anything to them. Either way, Abaddon is dead and his realm and power now belonging to Kormir. He will not return, according to ANet, and I’m comfortable with that.

The reason we didn’t see the Vizier’s tower in GW1 is that it was in Orr. Orr was at the bottom of the Sea of Sorrows. We have known for years, however, that Vizier Khilbron was a servant of Abbadon. I’m 99% sure that’s why that mural was placed there. I thought it was some nice flavor personally.

@Konig, Since that interview was in 2006, could it be possible that he was talking about the original Guild Wars only? Maybe there were no plans to bring him back in the original Guild Wars.

@Christos, Yes, I agree about the mural, but I don’t know if that explains why they lead us into Abbadon’s temple.

Aurum.8793:

@Christos, Yes, I agree about the mural, but I don’t know if that explains why they lead us into Abbadon’s temple.

To stop the Risen from obtaining an artifact there for Zhaitan to “eat.” Which we failed to do. I don’t think there’s anything special about it. Abbadon was one of the Six at the time of Orr’s prominence as the kingdom of the gods. It makes sense that he had a temple there. It also makes sense that a god has a magical artifact somewhere in there. I’m sure the other temples did, but they’re above land and more accessible to the Risen, so they’ve likely already cleared the artifacts out of those.

There is hints at a predecessor to Abbadon. Whatever it is might come up in a future story.

Aurum.8793:

@Konig, Since that interview was in 2006, could it be possible that he was talking about the original Guild Wars only? Maybe there were no plans to bring him back in the original Guild Wars.

Er, sorry, I meant 2008 – silly typo there. Here’s part 1 of the PAX panel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdlkiYT7034

I may be in the minority here, but I kind of hope that they bring Abaddon back. Of all of the Six Gods, he struck me as the most interesting; a god of both knowledge and lies, of secrets and yet (paradoxically) of freedom in some respects. In my opinion, Abaddon was justified in his rebellion against the other Five’s impositions…

… which makes me want to explore just who he was before the Five decided to eradicate (as shown by the Forgotten fighting the Margonites) Abaddon’s influence from history, and his followers.

If I were a writer at Anet (oh, how I wish I was!), I would actually make it so that we could find Abaddon where all things that die go to; the Underworld. After all, Grenth overtook Dhuum’s mantle… yet Dhuum both remained in the Underworld, and managed to hold on to a great deal of power. So perhaps Abaddon is simply in the Underworld; relatively powerless, but nonetheless ‘there’.

Or perhaps we can even see a completely powerless Abaddon, since they show that most of the gods were once mortals before their ‘ascension’. Who was the man that became ‘Abaddon’ prior to his rise? What was his story? Those are the questions I’d like to see answered. Who knows, perhaps death has helped to cleanse Abaddon of the insanity that his milennia of chained torment gave to him.

I don’t think we’re done with the God of Secrets just yet. No sirree. Or at least I hope not.

I don’t think he’s going to show up in the Underworld.

Souls arrive in the underworld under normal circumstances, but there are means by which souls can be destroyed or otherwise prevented from going to the Underworld. When Kormir assumed Abaddon’s mantle, my suspicion is that she essentially consumed Abaddon’s spirit along with it – there is no Abaddon, only Kormir..

So it’s more likely that any reappearance of Abaddon would come from bits of his personality slowly working his way into Kormir’s rather than his spirit showing up somewhere else.

Why Dhuum can’t be killed then? Why Grenth couldn’t kill him, and just put him into a Jail?

It would be a needless retcon. Abaddon is dead. Let him rest in pieces.

Abaddon certainly won’t be seen in the near future. because after Zhaitan we’ll probably have to take care of the other elder dragons first. And if they bring back Abaddon, they’ll have to bring back the other Five (and Kormir) back as well. Since they kinda go together. But only 1 race believes in those gods. So wouldn’t the story become too human centred? It already is pretty focused on the human race. Abaddon’s temple, Grenth’s reaper, the last few story missions taking place in Orr, a human kingdom etc.

Also, in one of the last few missions, there was a norn saying something along the lines of ‘Norn help you, because if Zhaitan can be beaten, maybe Jormag is next’. This implies that we will have to fight through all 4, 5 or 6 Elder Dragons.

Aaaand: What if there really are 6 ED and 6 human gods? What if each ED is only compatible with the magic of one of the 6 gods?
Zhaitan – Abaddon (Abaddon had something similar to undead servants)
Primordeus – Balthasar (Fire)
Jormag – Grenth (Ice)
Deep Sea Dragon – Lyssa (Aparently she’s the goddess of water now. It said so in human character creation)
Krakaltorrik – Dwayna (he was able to scorch the ground by merely flying over it. So maybe his corruption spreads through air, which Dwayna patrons over).
Nr 6 – Melandru (plant based god for a plant based ED).

Zombie.2310:

Abaddon certainly won’t be seen in the near future. because after Zhaitan we’ll probably have to take care of the other elder dragons first. And if they bring back Abaddon, they’ll have to bring back the other Five (and Kormir) back as well. Since they kinda go together. But only 1 race believes in those gods. So wouldn’t the story become too human centred? It already is pretty focused on the human race. Abaddon’s temple, Grenth’s reaper, the last few story missions taking place in Orr, a human kingdom etc.

Also, in one of the last few missions, there was a norn saying something along the lines of ‘Norn help you, because if Zhaitan can be beaten, maybe Jormag is next’. This implies that we will have to fight through all 4, 5 or 6 Elder Dragons.

Aaaand: What if there really are 6 ED and 6 human gods? What if each ED is only compatible with the magic of one of the 6 gods?
Zhaitan – Abaddon (Abaddon had something similar to undead servants)
Primordeus – Balthasar (Fire)
Jormag – Grenth (Ice)
Deep Sea Dragon – Lyssa (Aparently she’s the goddess of water now. It said so in human character creation)
Krakaltorrik – Dwayna (he was able to scorch the ground by merely flying over it. So maybe his corruption spreads through air, which Dwayna patrons over).
Nr 6 – Melandru (plant based god for a plant based ED).

Life → Dwayna / Corrupted Life → Zhaitan
Fire → Balthazar / Corrupted Fire → Primordius
Chaos → Lyssa / Corrupted Chaos → Kralkatorrik
Ice → Grenth / Corrupted Ice → Jormag
Magic→ Abaddon / Corrupted Magic → Bubbles
Nature → Melandru / Corrupted Nature → Nr. 6

Mechos.5640:

If I were a writer at Anet (oh, how I wish I was!), I would actually make it so that we could find Abaddon where all things that die go to; the Underworld. After all, Grenth overtook Dhuum’s mantle… yet Dhuum both remained in the Underworld, and managed to hold on to a great deal of power. So perhaps Abaddon is simply in the Underworld; relatively powerless, but nonetheless ‘there’.

The issue is two-fold:

According to the gw.dat, Abaddon’s body was destroyed and was being recreated. The Realm of Torment is also part of where all things that go die. This implies that Abaddon already died, and that his soul was imprisoned and that he was recreating a body – which we subsequently destroyed. This would mean what Kormir absorbed would be Abaddon’s soul – which fits in line with Kormir’s line as goddess of truth: “His power. His knowledge. But not him. His will is broken.”

Kind of implies Abaddon’s soul is within Kormir. So if Abaddon returns, it’d be via taking over Kormir’s body. But Anet seems to be content with his current ending.

Second issue is that Dhuum wasn’t killed. That’s why he was imprisoned – just as Abaddon was originally imprisoned because the other gods couldn’t/wouldn’t destroy him completely (probably so that the power which almost ran rampant and destroyed everything after Abaddon’s death in Nightfall wouldn’t go rampant with no one around to absorb the power – e.g., no Kormir-like figure). In other words, Dhuum is in the same position Abaddon was before Nightfall, so Dhuum being present in the Underworld doesn’t mean in any way shape or form that Abaddon may be there.

Zombie.2310:

Aaaand: What if there really are 6 ED and 6 human gods? What if each ED is only compatible with the magic of one of the 6 gods?
Zhaitan – Abaddon (Abaddon had something similar to undead servants)
Primordeus – Balthasar (Fire)
Jormag – Grenth (Ice)
Deep Sea Dragon – Lyssa (Aparently she’s the goddess of water now. It said so in human character creation)
Krakaltorrik – Dwayna (he was able to scorch the ground by merely flying over it. So maybe his corruption spreads through air, which Dwayna patrons over).
Nr 6 – Melandru (plant based god for a plant based ED).

You really had to go and do this.

Firstly, if this were so, then it’d be in relation to the original six gods – e.g., Abaddon was the god of water before Lyssa, so he’d be the DSD. And Dhuum was god of death (but not ice) before Grenth.

So there’s no god of ice (no Grenth), and no crystals (Kralkatorrik twisted with his breath which all Elder Dragons can do – it’s not related to simply flying over it – his corruption spreads physically, whereas Jormag’s mentally and Zhaitan is magically/spiritually (supposedly)).

But there’s no god fitting for Jormag or Kralkatorrik – and no dragon for Dwayna or Lyssa. That hypothesis fails. Plus, the Elder Dragons predate the Six Gods’ presence on Tyria.

draxynnic.3719:

When Kormir assumed Abaddon’s mantle, my suspicion is that she essentially consumed Abaddon’s spirit along with it – there is no Abaddon, only Kormir..

I agree with this. Abbadon held a certain power, Kormir now holds it. I believe that Abbadon is dead, but even if he wasn’t, it would be some remainder of his mind or spirit that still existed – it wouldn’t have any of his ‘divine’ powers. Which would make him not very interesting.

And you guys just had to go into the gods=dragons stuff, didn’t you? Poor Konig :P

If they were going to do anything with Abbadon, I’d rather see us fighting a group of human Abbadon cultists who believed that he could be revived and restored to power…but were wrong. Just deluded cultists worshipping a dead god with no power. I feel like that’d make a good story.

I wrote a thing about Abbadon and his motive here Mechos, just fan fiction of a sort but I have always found the whole situation pleasantly ambiguous!

I don’t think that the gods and the dragons are the same I was just stating that if you’re going to relate them, you should do it properly.

Life → Dwayna / Corrupted Life → Zhaitan
Fire → Balthazar / Corrupted Fire → Primordius
Beauty → Lyssa / Corrupted Beauty → Kralkatorrik
Ice → Grenth / Corrupted Ice → Jormag
Magic → Abaddon / Corrupted Magic → Bubbles
Nature → Melandru / Corrupted Nature → Nr. 6

I don’t think anyone said you were claiming that the gods and dragons were the same (no one made that already disproven claim in this thread). But there are issues with your relations.

If you count Grenth, then you have to count Kormir and not Abaddon. If you count Abaddon, well, you should be counting Dhuum and Abaddon’s unknown predecessor. Dhuum holds no ties to ice and thus no ties to Jormag, and the DSD holds no known ties to knowledge (the thing shared between Abaddon and Kormir, so likely with Abaddon’s unknown predecessor too), nor order and spirit (Kormir’s other lines besides knowledge/truth) and Kormir holds no ties to water (what we know the DSD holds ties to), but Lyssa didn’t always have water either, so she can’t count there.

And Kralkatorrik is hardly “Corrupted Beauty” in my opinion – he’s crystals, that’s what he corrupts turns into. Though liquid seems to superheat and super cool fast enough that boiling liquid froze with bubbles still formed within the Dragonbrand (not all liquid mind you). I’d hardly call crystals to be “corrupted beauty.”

But there are hundreds of threads on this by now, we don’t need to derail this one with a repetition of the same thing. Only Balthazar and – supposedly – Melandru fit cleanly when comparing god to dragon.

Ludovicus.7980:

I don’t think that the gods and the dragons are the same I was just stating that if you’re going to relate them, you should do it properly.

Life -> Dwayna / Corrupted Life -> Zhaitan
Fire -> Balthazar / Corrupted Fire -> Primordius
Beauty -> Lyssa / Corrupted Beauty -> Kralkatorrik
Ice -> Grenth / Corrupted Ice -> Jormag
Magic -> Abaddon / Corrupted Magic -> Bubbles
Nature -> Melandru / Corrupted Nature -> Nr. 6

Bubbles uses magic?

Abaddon would fit Zhaitan in the way that whoever came into touch with Abaddons magic during their Lifetime would end up his servant after death. That’s why Khilbron and Shiro show up in Nightfall as well. Zhaitan’s curse seems to be similar to that. And maybe he wanted Abaddons Items because of that. To power up his curse and corrupting the living so that they rise when they die and become his servants. He doesn’t turn living creatures into zombies. He does it after they died.

Zombie.2310:

Ludovicus.7980:

I don’t think that the gods and the dragons are the same I was just stating that if you’re going to relate them, you should do it properly.

Life -> Dwayna / Corrupted Life -> Zhaitan
Fire -> Balthazar / Corrupted Fire -> Primordius
Beauty -> Lyssa / Corrupted Beauty -> Kralkatorrik
Ice -> Grenth / Corrupted Ice -> Jormag
Magic -> Abaddon / Corrupted Magic -> Bubbles
Nature -> Melandru / Corrupted Nature -> Nr. 6

Bubbles uses magic?

Abaddon would fit Zhaitan in the way that whoever came into touch with Abaddons magic during their Lifetime would end up his servant after death. That’s why Khilbron and Shiro show up in Nightfall as well. Zhaitan’s curse seems to be similar to that. And maybe he wanted Abaddons Items because of that. To power up his curse and corrupting the living so that they rise when they die and become his servants. He doesn’t turn living creatures into zombies. He does it after they died.

Abaddon has no specific alliance undead, he pushed the vizier into unleashing both undead and the titans. He pushed the witch into corrupting Shiro’s mind, unleashing the jade wind and eventually releasing the affliction, which is not undeath. Furthermore, remember that Palawa Joko (king of the undead) helped us defeating him. Abaddon is the god of secrets, and Bubbles is a very secretive dragon.

So I keep saying

Life -> Dwayna / Corrupted Life(undead) -> Zhaitan
Fire -> Balthazar / Corrupted Fire(destroyers) -> Primordius
Beauty -> Lyssa / Corrupted Beauty(branded) -> Kralkatorrik
Ice -> Grenth / Corrupted Ice(ice touched) -> Jormag
Magic -> Abaddon / Corrupted Magic(?) -> Bubbles
Nature -> Melandru / Corrupted Nature(nightmare court?) -> Brambles

Zombie.2310:

Abaddon certainly won’t be seen in the near future. because after Zhaitan we’ll probably have to take care of the other elder dragons first. And if they bring back Abaddon, they’ll have to bring back the other Five (and Kormir) back as well. Since they kinda go together. But only 1 race believes in those gods. So wouldn’t the story become too human centred? It already is pretty focused on the human race. Abaddon’s temple, Grenth’s reaper, the last few story missions taking place in Orr, a human kingdom etc.

I’d disagree with the idea that it’s human centred. Orr is a formerly human kingdom, but it might have been a Forgotten kingdom for all the relevance modern humans have in the fighting in Orr. Asura, charr, and sylvari have proven much more important in the fight against Zhaitan even within Orr itself, and opportunities that could have been used to give humans some token spotlight were squandered.

On the distinction between Dhuum and Abaddon… it could be because Dhuum represents death, it’s one of those ‘you can’t kill death’ situations. Grenth can imprison Dhuum and claim enough of his power that he can reasonably claim the title of god of Death as long as Dhuum remains imprisoned, but Dhuum is still the ‘alpha Death’, so to speak, and neither Grenth nor anyone else we know has the power to actually kill him. Abaddon, however, didn’t have that protection.

Zombie.2310:

Abaddon would fit Zhaitan in the way that whoever came into touch with Abaddons magic during their Lifetime would end up his servant after death.

That’s like saying anyone who dies gets judged by Grenth.

Those who were tainted by Abaddon had their soul thrown into the Realm of Torment. This isn’t undeath in any way shape or form.

Zhaitan, like all Elder Dragons consume magic, and the artifacts in the Temple of Abaddon were simply just another set of magical artifacts – after 100 years, you can pretty much assume Zhaitan’s minions already plundered other magical artifacts from the temples.

Ludovicus.7980:

Abaddon is the god of secrets, and Bubbles is a very secretive dragon.

So is the sixth Elder Dragon.

The DSD is “secretive” only because he’s not in continental Tyria.

All Elder Dragons hold a tie to magic – in so far that they consume it, and corrupted it.

And as I said before – if you count Abaddon over Kormir, then you must count Abaddon’s predecessor over Abaddon, and Dhuum over Grenth. Dhuum holds no ties to ice – ice was a domain of Grenth even before overthrowing Dhuum. And if you insist on keeping Grenth, then you must use Kormir and not Abaddon – the DSD holds no connection to knowledge. And Kralkatorrik holds no connection to beauty – just crystal and corrupting physically. The connection falters, because in the end you either have no dragon for Kormir and no god for Kralkatorrik, or you have no dragon for Dhuum and Lyssa (and possibly Abaddon’s predecessor), and no god for Kralkatorrik and Jormag (and possibly the DSD).

Stop trying to make something that doesn’t work fit together. Your mix and matching rules that don’t fit in order to make that hypothesis works – your not the only one either. It just doesn’t work.

This whole dragon equals gods is just you guys trying to find patterns where in fact there are none. We don’t even know for sure whether an extant sixth dragon exists, and there is absolutely no lore linking dragons to the gods. The only thing here is the fact that six equals six, so the 6 gods obviously have to align with the 5 ED because one single line in the entire game mentions a possible 6th ED??? To me that sounds just stupid.

Sometimes two things can be the same number without being related A square has 4 sides, so does a pyramid. Both are entirely unrelated.

Actually, we know a sixth Elder Dragon exists. This is a proven fact.

The question is whether or not it’s still alive, if it’s awake, and if not awake and is alive, when will it awake. A second question is whether or not there are more than six Elder Dragons, as the “sextant of swallowers” (aka six Elder Dragons) comes from jotun history, and as far as we know, they never went far out from continental Tyria (on the other hand, forgotten and possibly dwarves did – to Cantha (for both) and Elona (for forgotten)).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Actually, we know a sixth Elder Dragon exists. This is a proven fact.

The question is whether or not it’s still alive, if it’s awake, and if not awake and is alive, when will it awake. A second question is whether or not there are more than six Elder Dragons, as the “sextant of swallowers” (aka six Elder Dragons) comes from jotun history, and as far as we know, they never went far out from continental Tyria (on the other hand, forgotten and possibly dwarves did – to Cantha (for both) and Elona (for forgotten)).

Without going into far fetched discussions about myths, but Greek and Roman myths mention a pantheon of gods living on Mount Olympus in trustworthy sources yet nothing ever found there. Furthermore the Jotun wouldn’t be the first to mistranslate a heptant (7) into sextant (6). Classic mistake, especially with such a nice alliteration to induce the mistake.

I’m joking a bit but you see where I’m going. Proof of the pudding is in the eating and the Jotun myth doesn’t hold any more value to me (as a human character) than Olympic gods hold to me as a modern day pastafari.

Also your comment still doesn’t address the issue where people try to fit the gods with the dragons without any real reason (except for 6 equals 6 if an obscure myth from a lesser race is taken for granted).

There is the distinction that we know the jotun did in fact live through the dragons and, from the appropriate Arah path, knew a lot about them including how to predict their rise. The stelae would at worst be comparable to the legends of Troy than of Olympus

It’s possible that they had a few ‘false positives’ (predicting dragons that didn’t appear, because they appeared elsewhere in the world) but if the ancient jotun records say there were six, I’d believe that there were at least that many.

Modern jotun, on the other hand, I’d trust about as far as I can throw them (a few dozen feet with Banish or Air Blast.

marnick.4305:

Also your comment still doesn’t address the issue where people try to fit the gods with the dragons without any real reason (except for 6 equals 6 if an obscure myth from a lesser race is taken for granted).

I didn’t address it because I agree with you. There is – by all indication – no relation between the Six Gods and the Six Elder Dragons. My previous posts on the matter have always been about how while 2 or 3 gods match up with Elder Dragons, the other 4 or 3 do not (all dependent on how you match them up).

However, there is reason enough to believe there is indeed a sixth Elder Dragon – or at least there was.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

marnick.4305:

Also your comment still doesn’t address the issue where people try to fit the gods with the dragons without any real reason (except for 6 equals 6 if an obscure myth from a lesser race is taken for granted).

I didn’t address it because I agree with you. There is – by all indication – no relation between the Six Gods and the Six Elder Dragons. My previous posts on the matter have always been about how while 2 or 3 gods match up with Elder Dragons, the other 4 or 3 do not (all dependent on how you match them up).

However, there is reason enough to believe there is indeed a sixth Elder Dragon – or at least there was.

Just feels like too much shoehorning. Some people even go as far to say Zaithan = Dwayna because of life/death and Jormag = Grenth because of ice. Makes absolutely no sense to me and it’s called fitting the evidence to the hypothesis. Science doesn’t work that way.