Guild Wars 2

So I was wondering… How does WvW come in from a RP point of view ((if it does)) – Seeing others of the same races and professions knowing they’re from their own servers/worlds facing the same problems as us, i.e. dragons?

From the asura infinity ball story we have confirmed the existence of alternate worlds. So it fits in easily to just say it’s an alternate world.

Short answer: The Mists.

The Mists are the raw stuff the universe is made of, and it’s also the stuff that connects the multiverse. As above, the fact there is a multiverse is established in GW lore. You can hear a couple NPC’s chattering about “The Mist War” in at least LA and DR.

It kind of bums me out the angle that they play though. The NPC’s seem genuinely terrified by whatever they’re fighting “in there”, and talk like it’s a fight for survival. I wish it was more of a Valhalla type thing in-character. Like it’s where great warriors go to “unwind” and just war for the sake of it. Which… is pretty much what I do. After helping cabbage-face become the new Eternal Hero of Tyria, my dude just retired to the mists to fight his days away.

Klawlyt.6507:

Short answer: The Mists.

The Mists are the raw stuff the universe is made of, and it’s also the stuff that connects the multiverse. As above, the fact there is a multiverse is established in GW lore. You can hear a couple NPC’s chattering about “The Mist War” in at least LA and DR.

It kind of bums me out the angle that they play though. The NPC’s seem genuinely terrified by whatever they’re fighting “in there”, and talk like it’s a fight for survival. I wish it was more of a Valhalla type thing in-character. Like it’s where great warriors go to “unwind” and just war for the sake of it. Which… is pretty much what I do. After helping cabbage-face become the new Eternal Hero of Tyria, my dude just retired to the mists to fight his days away.

This actually is exactly how the Norn see the mists and in their belief system openly refer to the mists as the place where all norn go after they die (usually defeated in battle) so they may live on forever fighting for eternity and beyond.

Is there still any mention of the Hall of Heroes? Because that’s what pvp was basically about in GW1. A battle for the gods, and to gain their favor.

Yeah, The Mists are kind of the catch all. The Mists are the stuff of the world, and The Mists is the place where great heroes go when they die, and The Mists are also the means to get to the places where lesser beings go when they die. So, The Mists is a term that can be used a lot of ways.

If there are any references to the HoH in GW2, I’m not aware of them.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

From the asura infinity ball story we have confirmed the existence of alternate worlds. So it fits in easily to just say it’s an alternate world.

Technically, all the asura infinity ball storyline proves is timetravel is possible. That shows a possible future not an alternate reality.

To quote the Pale Tree during A Light in the Darkness (which is nearly the same thing as the infinity ball storyline except one is a vision and one is time travel):

“But be warned—the future can change in the blink of an eye.”

The existence of alternate realities – as in, alternate presents – has yet to be confirmed.

Anyways, regarding WvW’s lore – it’s fairly left in the air. All we’re told is that there are “evil” and unmerciful forces threatening Tyria. We don’t know what those forces are, lore-wise. It wouldn’t be hard to say that they are indeed alternate realities (alternate presents), since the Mists is said to be containing a multiverse – which usually means multiple realities of the same universe in fictions (but not necessarily so). The Mists also is capable of recreating pasts, presents, and futures in little pockets of reality (aka the explanation behind all sPvP and Fractals of the Mists maps).

As for mention of the Hall of Heroes… outright no, but there is a norn mention of the hall of spirits – which by Jora’s description in GW1, is the same thing as the Hall of Heroes.

I’m not sure if they come right out and say multiverse in GW2, but in 1, I’m fairly certain it was explicitly stated that the Hall of Heroes was where heroes from across a multitude of realities (or something similar) joined to do battle. In other words, the Korean servers were in-lore alternate universes from the the NA servers and so on.

as for me – the battles in the mists for the glory of Balthazar
there was written somewhere that these portals to the mists (both sPvP and WvW) are working thanks to the Balthazar’s “blessing-kind-stuff” he made after the battle issles was sunk.

Actually, technically, the Infinity Ball storyline makes a point of stating that what was accessed wasn’t your character’s realities future, but a different one. Relevant quotes:

" Shodd: That was unbelievable, unprecedented! We made history and saw the future, all at once.
<Character name>: Empirically, it shows an alternate version of reality, not the future. And based on those mechanical monstrosities, a reality we’re better off without. "

" Shodd: Well, there’s no denying we got results. But if that’s the future, I don’t want to live there.
<Character name>: It was A future, not THE future. In terms of quantum arcanics, we accessed other possibilities…but the connection was extremely unstable. "

“Shodd: No, I’ll live forever- as a genius! Now shut up, and enjoy a glimpse of another reality! "

“Mysterious Stranger: But I left you behind, and achieved greatness: I am the Grand High Sovereign of my reality. "

“Mysterious Stranger: I can do anything I want. And here, as in my world, the only obstacle to my transcendence is you. "

" Mysterious Stranger: Wait until you get to know my creations. In my reality, they conquered Tyria. "

" Mysterious Stranger: You don’t stand a chance. In your world, this technology hasn’t even been invented yet!

“Zojja: If you turn into a dimension-travelling dictator from the future, I’ll have to put you down like a rabid skelk. "

So alternate realities do exist- there just isn’t much at all known about how they work.

The Steam creatures might at least be an indication that alternate realities not only exist, but can leak into other realities, through the Mists.

Klawlyt.6507:

I’m not sure if they come right out and say multiverse in GW2, but in 1, I’m fairly certain it was explicitly stated that the Hall of Heroes was where heroes from across a multitude of realities (or something similar) joined to do battle. In other words, the Korean servers were in-lore alternate universes from the the NA servers and so on.

Multiple worlds. But that doesn’t say much.

Though the lore on Lord Odran does mention it being a multiverse.

But it’s never really said that we really saw named individuals from these “other worlds” or if these other worlds even held humans.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, technically, the Infinity Ball storyline makes a point of stating that what was accessed wasn’t your character’s realities future, but a different one. Relevant quotes:

-snip quotes-

So alternate realities do exist- there just isn’t much at all known about how they work.

No, all that says is that they come from a possible future. All it proves is that the future is not set in stone – just like we saw during A Light in the Darkness – and that time travel is possible to effectively alter the timeline, just like how it happens in Terminator, where each time a robot is sent back in time the timeline gets a little different.

They did not come from an alternate present, but a possible future. The two places do not exist simultaneously.

For all we know, the second that the Grand High Sovereign stepped through that portal, his “future” disappeared forever.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Klawlyt.6507:

I’m not sure if they come right out and say multiverse in GW2, but in 1, I’m fairly certain it was explicitly stated that the Hall of Heroes was where heroes from across a multitude of realities (or something similar) joined to do battle. In other words, the Korean servers were in-lore alternate universes from the the NA servers and so on.

Multiple worlds. But that doesn’t say much.

Though the lore on Lord Odran does mention it being a multiverse.

But it’s never really said that we really saw named individuals from these “other worlds” or if these other worlds even held humans.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Actually, technically, the Infinity Ball storyline makes a point of stating that what was accessed wasn’t your character’s realities future, but a different one. Relevant quotes:

-snip quotes-

So alternate realities do exist- there just isn’t much at all known about how they work.

No, all that says is that they come from a possible future. All it proves is that the future is not set in stone – just like we saw during A Light in the Darkness – and that time travel is possible to effectively alter the timeline, just like how it happens in Terminator, where each time a robot is sent back in time the timeline gets a little different.

They did not come from an alternate present, but a possible future. The two places do not exist simultaneously.

For all we know, the second that the Grand High Sovereign stepped through that portal, his “future” disappeared forever.

The infinity ball was supposed to glimpse into a possible future, it ended up connecting to an alternate reality.

It’s sort of the theory that there’s an alternate world for every choice you’ve ever had in life. It is both a possible future, and an alternate reality.

At any rate it’s a possible future for you, and an alternate reality for him. For him that point in time already happened. It’s the wording. In your world this technology doesn’t exist yet! He said world and not time.

That’s very nitpickery over wording that probably didn’t get looked over with immense scrutiny.

Besides, to the Grand High Soverieng, it is another world. Just the past world. It’s outright stated several times that they were looking into the future and in the Grand High Sovereign’s own line that you quoted proves him to be coming from the future. He says the technology doesn’t exist yet – meaning that he knows it would become invented and that he specifically came to a point in time where it has not yet been invented. E.g., he traveled to the past.

If he merely hoped parallel timelines to a different reality, then he couldn’t possibly know that they weren’t invented and let alone if they weren’t that they would be which by your own nitpickery of the lines, shows that he knows they would be.

Same thing for if it were a case of “for every choice possible, a new dimension is created” – if the choices that led to the steam creature’s creation in that dimension occurred, without observing the world beforehand he wouldn’t know they weren’t existing there and he certainly wouldn’t know if they ever would without his intervention – which his wording implies that they would without his appearance.

Then there’s Zojja’s line:

Zojja: If you turn into a dimension-travelling dictator from the future, I’ll have to put you down like a rabid skelk.

Well your current self is not the grand high sovereign currently assaulting Divinity’s reach with his army of steam creatures.

I’d say that makes it an alternate reality. Also I’ve always said that the steam creatures come from the future of an alternate reality.

The future IS an alternate reality, since time can go in various directions, depending on the actions we take along the way. This means that at any time, there are countless possible futures that exist as alternate realities. And if you make a connection with such an alternate reality, it is possible for things from that reality, to enter ours.

I didn’t say he wasn’t from the future, I said he wasn’t from OUR future. As far as the outright statement goes, all of those statements were from Shodd, and when the situation allowed the player character always stepped in to correct him. Other than that there’s just Zojja’s line, which also makes a point of stating that said dictator was from a separate dimension, and was half a joke to boot. As to how the Sovereign ‘knew’ the technology wasn’t around, it could have been a simple inference in any of four scenarios: A.) Zojja died before the technology came about in his world (likely, given his talk of being ‘held back’), B.) The player asura was clearly not as old as the Sovereign when he invented the technology, C.) The Sovereign was never without the steam creatures after creating them, or D.) A similar event happened in his own reality before the creation of the steam creatures (something I hope is not the case, because recursion is a headache).

My final argument: if he was from the player asura’s future, he would be creating one hell of a paradox by killing his past self. If, however, he came from a similar yet separate timeline, there would be no inherent inconsistency in events, and therefore no problem. While time travel is a fun device in theory, true time travel is necessarily paradoxical, and therefor can’t exist, neither in the real world nor in any fictional world created by writers who value their sanity.

I would greatly disagree with the notion that “the future is an alternate reality” – a possible future doesn’t make it an alternate reality in all situations.

For example, the situation in which that possible future utterly and fully disappears from all existence once the timeline goes on a different path results in no alternate reality. There’d be one timeline, but it can change.

Or I should say, the future isn’t a physical alternate reality necessarily. It all depends on whether or not that future still “exists” after our own timeline goes a different direction.

And for all we know, the Grand High Sovereign’s own “present” (aka that possible future) disappeared once he stepped through the portal and changed the timeline.

Which is what I mean by the fact that the Infinity Ball doesn’t prove the existence of alternate realities. Just possibilities, which are all theoretical and not concrete ideas.

There are many theories about how alternate realities could work, and it seems to me that you’re trying to apply them when there’s nothing to really say such things exist. Now, if the Grand High Sovereign were to have returned to that very same future (with us knowing that he actually accomplished that), then yes, you’d be right.

So in the end, we have no concrete proof that alternate realities exist, simply because we don’t know if where the Grand High Sovereign still exists once that future was avoided in our reality.

Well we know it exists because someone came from it and fought us.

I think what Konig means is: If we take a different path, and exclude a future outcome, does that future reality stop existing? Or does it continue to exist?

Something came from the future, but that is when it was still a possible future. Now that this future has been averted…. does it still exist somewhere?

I like to think of the way in which possible futures are as a rope being made. You have a consistent strand of past and the future is an array of threads going each and every direction. Eventually you come to the present where all of the threads and strands are being manipulated into one solid core. Thus in my mind, possible futures are those threads shooting off in every direction, where quite possibly things could end up, but they eventually get pulled away from their path due to present events (aka where the rope is being made).

Yes, Malafide, that is exactly what I meant.

When the Grand High Sovereign left his world, we knew it existed as he was leaving. But because he left and influenced the past, does that future still exist as an alternate reality?

It really depends upon which theory of the timeline that the GW universe holds to – the singular timeline, or the splitting timeline.

If it’s the singular timeline, then by going back in time you change the future and the “old future” ceases to exist. If it’s the splitting timeline then it’ll continue to exist.

Only in the case of the splitting timeline can we properly say it’s an alternate reality – and only when we get to the parallel point in time while both timelines exist simultaneously.

@Narcemus: That sounds like the single timeline from what I understand – eventually those possible futures no longer exist, and only the actual future – which is effectively a one in a billion chance of being made – exists once it becomes the present. All other paths the timeline could have taken are thus merely abstract theories and thoughts. No physical essence to them, even with the Mists’ help.

Is now the proper time to bring up Schrodinger’s Charr?

Well Konig, should alternate futures exist, and not be erased once current events make them no longer viable, then we would have alternate realities. I do not think you can have alternate futures continuing to exist without alternate realities, because alternate realities are just past alternate futures that exist at the same period of our current timeline.

Should that be the case, yes.

But is that the case? There’s nothing to truly indicate such. So proclaiming that the Infinity Ball proves that it is the case, is falsification.

I won’t proclaim anything about the infinity ball because I haven’t played enough on my asura. I’m just going based on my own understanding of alternate reality/future scenario.

<Character name>: Empirically, it shows an alternate version of reality, not the future. And based on those mechanical monstrosities, a reality we’re better off without. "

“Alternate version of reality” is the long hand for alternate reality.

" Shodd: Well, there’s no denying we got results. But if that’s the future, I don’t want to live there.
<Character name>: It was A future, not THE future. In terms of quantum arcanics, we accessed other possibilities…but the connection was extremely unstable. "

the fact that the connection is unstable seems to me to indicate that the alternate reality exists reguardless of the connection to this world.

“Mysterious Stranger: I can do anything I want. And here, as in my world, the only obstacle to my transcendence is you. "

" Mysterious Stranger: Wait until you get to know my creations. In my reality, they conquered Tyria. "

" Mysterious Stranger: You don’t stand a chance. In your world, this technology hasn’t even been invented yet!

“Zojja: If you turn into a dimension-travelling dictator from the future, I’ll have to put you down like a rabid skelk. "

while all of this points towards a reality that has been existing. and in fact continues to exist past the present point in order for them to go back in time.

Here’s what everyone’s missing, this thread started as a take on WvW in-lore, and was added to with HoH from GW1. Now everyone’s just looking at the asura story. Between the implication that different servers are different version of reality, and all the infinity ball shenanigans, I think it’s pretty likely that GW2 lore has a multiverse.

Wooden Potatoes did an excellent video not long ago on the possible connections between the steam creatures, thaumanova, the aetherblades, and of course, the infinity ball.

I would hardly call that video where WP missed a piece of lore on Thaumanova from an NPC just outside Thaumanova, and ends it with a stream of wild speculation, as “excellent.”