Guild Wars 2

As you probably know the Asura were driven to the surface by the Destroyers, minions of Primordius. Even though they’ve achieved a lot in the last 250 years apparently their society today is nothing compared to what it was before the Exodus.

Which makes me wonder, if they could do you think they would go back?

When they first came to the surface they didn’t seem to like it much, in GW1 there were krewes complaining about everything from the height of the sky to the number of trees and animals, even the smell of the air. But they seem to have adjusted since. I was plesantly surprised to see how their structures fit into the existing landscape and trees and plants growing around them are tolerated. Combined with the fact that generations of Asura have lived on the surface now it makes me wonder if they’d even want to go back underground if they could.

Nope.From the opening cutscene:“We won’t move an inch,not for dragons,not for anyone”

Well the Assuran goal besides slaying the elder dragon is essentially world domination, probobally as a result of their major napoleon complex. I don’t think they would go back to the depths with the skritt, I feel they’d rather dominate the overworld where they can feel special when they have even the technologically minded Charr under their leadership.

Given that Primordus seems to be the biggest and the strongest elder dragon active right now, we can assume the depths are virtually uninhabitable and will be for a while.

it’s been 250 years since the asura left the underworld. i’d bet most living asuras haven’t even walked into a cave.

so no, i don’t think they’d go back if they got rid of primordus. they seem very comfortable in the tropical jungle they picked to live in.

I agree with the others that I don’t think the asura – as a whole – will go back underground. Same for norn going back north. Their livelihood has changed, and those from the depths are now dead – the modern asura has only known the surface. There will be some who go underground, of course, but most likely primarily for the isolation, uncovering lost relics and information, and any other old history.

Bard.7215:

Given that Primordus seems to be the biggest and the strongest elder dragon active right now, we can assume the depths are virtually uninhabitable and will be for a while.

Saywhat? Primordus is actually indicated to be the smallest (GW1 model being smaller than Kralk’s GW1 model), and there’s nothing to indicate its strength compared to the others.

However, given dragon minions don’t die with their master (per risen and Zhaitan), it I’d agree that the Depths will be uninhabitable for a while – due to the number of destroyers likely to be down there.

Primordus is the first to Awaken, Primordus had a champion that almost defeated the Dwarves.. Promordus likely has the entire depths under his control.. Promordus doesn’t corrupt, he MAKES minions. Primordus follows all the symbolic build up as being the BIG BAD.

However, Primordus still had to make his army from scratch, and the creation of destroyers is slower (though how much slower is unknown) than branded or risen – which are more or less instantaneous (speed of making icebrood’s not entirely known, since we don’t see or read it happening outside failed attempts).

Being the first to awaken doesn’t mean much, and there’s little sign of Primordus beneath Ascalon (oddly enough), and the dwarves more or less sacrificed themselves rather than be defeated (it’s said they’re still fighting in the Depths of Tyria).

One could argue Primordus should have the biggest army, however Zhaitan had an entire nation’s worth of corpses when it woke up, and has been conscripting the fallen enemies (and possibly using the corpses of fallen risen to create the abominations – if not simply reanimating them), and unlike Primordus, both Jormag and Zhaitan didn’t have a race with an anti-you transformation spell combatting them, allowing easier spreading of minions and influence.

Truth be told, I think Jormag’s the one who’s the “strongest” (despite Zhaitan having been called such in the Movement of the World) – he’s been the one who’s outright harrasing the most races, some of which are known for their strength (norn), killed at least one, at most four, Spirits of the Wild (something never before done), and holds the easiest method outside Kralkatorrik for corrupting creatures (mental abilities vs making, physical, or waiting on corpses).

But I digress – point is, nothing really shows Primordus is outright stronger than the others (personally, I’d argue that of the four we know enough about, he’s the third strongest – beneath Zhaitan (2nd) and Jormag (1st) – but this is personal opinion).

Plot development clearly shows Primordus is the big bad, There is always a symbolic meaning behind the order of opponents in almost anything in fiction. If you want a mythical entity out of other entities to show something great, you’ve got to put him in the hot seat.

Primordus seat is pretty hot.. First to Awaken with statements of how others “Followed” pretty much gives him the high chair. Had a champion which had a huge villain spotlight".

This isn’t anything based on logical statistics because little is known of his true power given we don’t know exactly what happened in the depth. This is based off fictional meaning and plot progression in general, an aspect of the story and it’s spotlights.

I agree though that if anything Jormag is being prepped to be the second runner up, soley based off his looming power and theme as a power hungery tyrant.

However, typically in fiction the “big bad” is also the last to rise. This would in fact imply the Sixth to be said “worst of the ED” rather than Primordus (since it’s clearly not Kralkatorrik – and usually in such scenarios, the “worst of the villains” doesn’t awaken/show up until after a couple lesser ones were knocked out first).

I do not believe that Primordus’ development to show him “clearly” as the Big Bad. He was “followed” by in the sense that he was first, little else – the ED aren’t united nor is it likely they woke up just because Primordus did.

Well, I’d have to say Primordus as the big bad makes the most sense. If Jormag, based on its influence and reach, is the supposedly the strongest, it just doesn’t feel like the most evil/dangerous. I think it’s the next one to go (or Kralk, they’re interchangeable). DSD has potential to be the final one, just because of the mystery around it, but it feels more like the second to last.
Primordus as the last just fits the trope much more, fire being the main element of villains, representing the ferocity and untamed nature. And while some people think that because it’s the first to rise, it’s ‘leading’ others, I think the first to rise is more important because it’s the strongest to break its slumber. It could be that it was the first to sleep way back when, thus slept just as long as the other dragons…
And since we fought the Great Destroyer in GW1, it just feels even more that we’re being set up to have this ongoing struggle with it, and is the ‘evil mastermind’ of sorts.

i’d agree with the people saying primordus may be the strongest, if only in numbers.

think about it: jormag is actively losing minions, because he’s the one engaged in direct combat with the races of tyria at the moment. zhaitan is dead, so it’s irrelevant. kralkatorrik is on the crystal desert, a dead wasteland with nothing to corrupt to build his army, possibly still recovering from the fight with destiny’s edge.

and then you have primordus, who’s spent 250 actively building an army with hardly any interference. his dominance is the entire underworld, and his only opposing force are stone dwarves, which for that very reason are doomed to lose (they can’t procreate, so the more they fight, the smaller their army).

the underworld is probably swarming with destroyers. malchor’s leap will look empty after that.

as for size, primordus is probably the smallest, yes, but that’s probably got to do with him being underground, where being smaller offers mobility. that doesn’t have any influence on power, though.

The Crystal Desert isn’t a wasteland. There are hydras, giants (possible ogres by GW2 standards), minotaurs, scarabs, griffons, centaurs, and by now probably undead. Furthermore, as shown with the Shatterer and the Branded Lieutenants, Kralkatorrik can turn the land itself into minions too. There’s also Glint’s children to consider.

And while Jormag’s losing minions, he’s also gaining them – similar to how Zhaitan gained minions from killing foes, as some Icebrood have shown to have crushed in faces (Edge of Destiny), so it seems evens corpses can be turned into icebrood.

BrunoBRS.5178:

it’s been 250 years since the asura left the underworld. i’d bet most living asuras haven’t even walked into a cave.

so no, i don’t think they’d go back if they got rid of primordus. they seem very comfortable in the tropical jungle they picked to live in.

Are you kidding me?

Look at those mosquitoes! I rather be back in a cave with my computer.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, typically in fiction the “big bad” is also the last to rise. This would in fact imply the Sixth to be said “worst of the ED” rather than Primordus (since it’s clearly not Kralkatorrik – and usually in such scenarios, the “worst of the villains” doesn’t awaken/show up until after a couple lesser ones were knocked out first).

I do not believe that Primordus’ development to show him “clearly” as the Big Bad. He was “followed” by in the sense that he was first, little else – the ED aren’t united nor is it likely they woke up just because Primordus did.

Correction, The big bad is the Last to be faced

The trope you’re thinking of is sometimes called the Fake out villian, which is generally the first and weakest enemy to be thrown at the protagonists to give them a false sense of what is to come.

When you have a “tier” of enemies presented, generally the one with the most symbolic or impactull wording is an indicator of the big bad. In the Guild Wars 2promotion video’s it generally starts with Primordus awakening and causing the world havic, as if he was harbringer of horrors to come. This could go for the “last to arise”, but this is not only rare for this trope, but Krakkletoric is only really flushed out as the mad dragon with personal issues towards a runaway minion, While Primordus is literally sending minions bursting out of the ground in such a manner that you cou;dn’t possible imagine what true power lies under the earth.

Primordus is being flushed out as the dragon who really wants to consume everything, No coastal minion collecting.. no messing with norns through propoganda, no chasing down renegade minions, he’s in it to win it.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Crystal Desert isn’t a wasteland. There are hydras, giants (possible ogres by GW2 standards), minotaurs, scarabs, griffons, centaurs, and by now probably undead. Furthermore, as shown with the Shatterer and the Branded Lieutenants, Kralkatorrik can turn the land itself into minions too. There’s also Glint’s children to consider.

And while Jormag’s losing minions, he’s also gaining them – similar to how Zhaitan gained minions from killing foes, as some Icebrood have shown to have crushed in faces (Edge of Destiny), so it seems evens corpses can be turned into icebrood.

i know jormag is generating minions as well as losing them, but who makes more? someone who builds and destroy or who just builds?

as for kralk, he’s losing minions on the brand, so all he has to purely build with no loss is the crystal desert, which even if he had enough life to create at the same minion-to-square-meter as primordus, who doesn’t need “base models”, primordus’ area of effect is huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge. he owns the entire underworld. that’s a whole lot more area to create minions than the branded crystal desert, or the entire brand for that matter.

[quote=501818;Bard.7215:When you have a “tier” of enemies presented, generally the one with the most symbolic or impactull wording is an indicator of the big bad. In the Guild Wars 2promotion video’s it generally starts with Primordus awakening and causing the world havic, as if he was harbringer of horrors to come. This could go for the “last to arise”, but this is not only rare for this trope, but Krakkletoric is only really flushed out as the mad dragon with personal issues towards a runaway minion, While Primordus is literally sending minions bursting out of the ground in such a manner that you cou;dn’t possible imagine what true power lies under the earth.

Primordus is being flushed out as the dragon who really wants to consume everything, No coastal minion collecting.. no messing with norns through propoganda, no chasing down renegade minions, he’s in it to win it.[/quote]Firstly, there is no tier – all Elder Dragons are, supposedly, equal.

Secondly, GW2’s promotional videos did not start with Primordus – but solely Zhaitan.

Thirdly, Primordus’ awakening was mostly unknown to the population, if I recall correctly – mostly thanks to the dwarves. Outside them, only the Order of Whispers knew it until races were forced to the surface (keep in mind, the asura were already on the surface – so the “races were forced to the surface” refers to skritt, murrellows, and skelk mostly).

Fourthly, all Elder Dragons want to consume everything – though Primordus is more of “destroy all life” where the others are more of “assimilate all life I can, kill the rest” – though the DSD, who also thus far as not corrupted living beings to our knowledge by the way, is unknown in this regard.

I also fail to see why chasing after Glint upon awakening reduces the quality of Kralkatorrik – if you’re “in it to win” as you say, wouldn’t removing the creature that knows the most about you, and betrayed you, be the first step? So that it cannot aid your other enemies (and its allies)? Then again, Primordus did the exact same thing 250 years before Kralkatorrik could.

BrunoBRS.5178:

as for kralk, he’s losing minions on the brand

Also gaining – there’s quite a few events and NPCs that talk about the Dragonbrand spreading and more branded creatures coming from seemingly no where. The Branded are spreading

BrunoBRS.5178:

he owns the entire underworld. that’s a whole lot more area to create minions than the branded crystal desert, or the entire brand for that matter.

Underground* (Underworld=afterlife :P); but speculative. We see minimal destroyer influence in Ascalon, and the only indication of Primordus having such are long-hibernating destroyers met in Edge of Destiny, who, based on the fact they were fighting dwarves, were there from a long time ago – the lack of any other destroyers in the region indicate that they were a long-detacted group. Primordus’ area of influence is primarily in southern Shiverpeaks at the moment (Mount Maelstrom area), with only some scattered between there and Harathi Hinterlands/Brisban Wildlands. Basically, he has Kryta and bordering areas above him. Zhaitan has not only Orr, but the Ring of Fire and the southwestern Crystal Desert (had, rather); Jormag has not only the Far Shiverpeaks, but stretching all the way into the arctic seas (which based on the world map – however accurate or inaccurate it may be, that’s a large area), and is continuously pushing south. The DSD’s influence is completely unknown, but it pushed the krait from the depths of the Unending Ocean all the way to Tyria – and I somehow doubt the deepest parts of the Unending Ocean is relatively close to Tyria.

i always forget that guild wars is one of those games you can’t shorten “underground world” >.>

and that’s exactly what i mean. we see minimal activity. instead of going with the flow, creating as many minions as you lose, primordus is quietly building his army, becoming stronger and stronger, like a tactician using the fog of war to hide his troops.

and keep in mind that the underground world might just as well pass through the bottom of the ocean. we did, after all, have tremors caused by destroyers as far as elona and cantha (remember how you got to boreal station? my canthan assassin does). primordus has access to all of that, and he’s just stocking more and more destroyers in there, with the occasional pack leaving the underground through natural holes (i.e. volcanoes). if cities weren’t supposed to be permanent safe zones, i wouldn’t doubt we’d see primordus and his army of destroyers crawling out of the great chasm (poor foundation my kitten there’s something else about that huge hole).

I know I saw a video promoting primordus. Still, even if the Zhaitain was the only one to get the spotlight in the promotions, it doesn’t take away any of the build up surrounding primordus.

Primordus awakening being relatively unknown until the subterranean races surfaced just adds to the suspense. We don’t know exactly how much he has hiding down there, We don’t even know if any stone dwarves remain in the depths. Primordus is like an active volcano with no indication of when he’s going to burst to the surface and fry us all, and that is what I love about him.

Also, he’s the fire/magma dragon, those are always saved for last :P

I understand that all dragons want to consume, that wasn’t even wroth responding to since you obviously know I understand the dragons intentions from previous conversations. My point is that Primordus is the destruction dragon like you said, the thing that’s just biding to completely eradicate us. Krakkletorriks personal vendetta with glint is a huge deterrent that is integrated with all that he’s currently done, He cut a huge line through Ascalon and stopped at the crystal desert to slap a dragon. Don’t get me wrong, that gives him a level of personality above other elder dragons…it’s just not BIG BAD material.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i always forget that guild wars is one of those games you can’t shorten “underground world” >.>

You can always shorten it to “Depths” (or Depths of Tyria) – the actual in-game name for them. :P

BrunoBRS.5178:

we did, after all, have tremors caused by destroyers as far as elona and cantha (remember how you got to boreal station? my canthan assassin does).

That’s more of mechanical cases. We know that the quests from Nightfall to Factions and Prophecies, and from Factions to Prophecies with their little “time travel” are purely mechanical so that new characters can get to old content too, these are the same.

Or do you claim that Vekk, Ogden, and all those dwarves, structures, and destroyers are all simultaneously beneath Lion’s Arch, Kamadan, and Kaineng City – and that Ogden knows they’re under these cities. And even if you do claim that, for some reason, keep in mind that those were cut off by asura gates being destroyed.

BrunoBRS.5178:

if cities weren’t supposed to be permanent safe zones, i wouldn’t doubt we’d see primordus and his army of destroyers crawling out of the great chasm (poor foundation my kitten there’s something else about that huge hole).

I suspect bandits (in turn WM). Though I’ve heard destroyers before. Reason: Shining Blade knew of it before it happened, and they’re all about keeping tabs on the WM even in modern times.

Bard.7215:

I know I saw a video promoting primordus. Still, even if the Zhaitain was the only one to get the spotlight in the promotions, it doesn’t take away any of the build up surrounding primordus.

If you did, it was fan-made. First one opened with Zhaitan, there was concept art of Primordus that flashed for about 2-3 seconds, somewhere in the middle, but that was the only cameo he got in the first one. Second one didn’t include him at all. Nor did the third. Even destroyers were lacking from, all three I believe.

And, uh, I’m pretty sure the lack of build-up takes away from the build-up when there was expected to be some.

Bard.7215:

Primordus awakening being relatively unknown until the subterranean races surfaced just adds to the suspense.

So what you’re saying is that if he makes a big entrance, he’s the Big Bad. But if he doesn’t make a big entrance, he’s the Big Bad.

Right, perfect logic.

Bard.7215:

Also, he’s the fire/magma dragon, those are always saved for last :P

Funny, lava creatures were first in the first storyline (titans), and the last was actually water, secrets, tentacles, and insanity (Abaddon). Who’s name was also unknown until he made his move, chessmaster style.

Sounds like the DSD all over again, just without the whole “the earlier villains were just underlings of a long forgotten something!”

For the record, I don’t see Kralkatorrik being the final one.

Truth be told, I wouldn’t be shocked one bit if we just kill Jormag and Kralkatorrik and then go on to new threats, leaving destroyers and the DSD (and the Sixth, perhaps) as “mysterious threats still out there” – why? Anet has repeatedly said they don’t want to close open doors too much, Jeff Grubb hates that they did that with the mursaat and Abaddon, and worked to re-open the former while couldn’t with the latter (though they’re still expanding his lore, obviously). Furthermore, it’d be boring as hell if the primary target of five consecutive plotlines were Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, Elder Dragon, and Elder Dragon.

Promordus had a strong symbolic opening in being first, not a litteral explosion of terror for the people of the surface like Zhaitan.

the presence of the big bad is the sense of looming

It depends on the flavor ranging from first to last when considering impact.

depths is not… deep enough :P and i know the reason they’re there, but it’s not entirely impossible for there to be seafloor caves that primordus can pass through. after all, destroyers are pure magma, and primordus is an elder dragon, pressure is nothing to them.

also i’d like to remind everyone that Primordus comes from “Prime”, which means “first” as well as it does “best”. in other words, Primordus’ power is hinted on the name :P

prime/pr?m/
Adjective:
Of first importance; main.
Noun:
A state or time of greatest strength, vigor, or success in a person’s life.
Verb:
Make (something) ready for use or action, in particular.
Synonyms:
primary – main – principal – chief – primal – capital

notice the noun definition. a state of greatest strength, vigor, or success in a person’s life.

primordial means ancient…
that’s a better translation

Mystic Starfish.2586:

primordial means ancient…
that’s a better translation

primordial is also derived from prime.

The main reason that kept the asura underground was their source of magic. Which turned out to be the great destroyer. They have no reason to go back unless they manage to enslave Primordious somehow. But it’s not likely. I know the Inquest will try though.

I’m pretty sure Primordus’ name is just a reference to him being the first to awaken. It’s kinda like taking Jormag’s name, saying it’s a reference to Jörmungandr, and saying he’s able to circle the entire world because of that, to say that Primordus’s use of prime in the name means “best” therefore Primordus is the strongest.

@Ludovicus: The statue that seeped power wasn’t the Great Destroyer. It was Primordus.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

However, Primordus still had to make his army from scratch, and the creation of destroyers is slower (though how much slower is unknown) than branded or risen – which are more or less instantaneous (speed of making icebrood’s not entirely known, since we don’t see or read it happening outside failed attempts).

Being the first to awaken doesn’t mean much, and there’s little sign of Primordus beneath Ascalon (oddly enough), and the dwarves more or less sacrificed themselves rather than be defeated (it’s said they’re still fighting in the Depths of Tyria).

One could argue Primordus should have the biggest army, however Zhaitan had an entire nation’s worth of corpses when it woke up, and has been conscripting the fallen enemies (and possibly using the corpses of fallen risen to create the abominations – if not simply reanimating them), and unlike Primordus, both Jormag and Zhaitan didn’t have a race with an anti-you transformation spell combatting them, allowing easier spreading of minions and influence.

Truth be told, I think Jormag’s the one who’s the “strongest” (despite Zhaitan having been called such in the Movement of the World) – he’s been the one who’s outright harrasing the most races, some of which are known for their strength (norn), killed at least one, at most four, Spirits of the Wild (something never before done), and holds the easiest method outside Kralkatorrik for corrupting creatures (mental abilities vs making, physical, or waiting on corpses).

But I digress – point is, nothing really shows Primordus is outright stronger than the others (personally, I’d argue that of the four we know enough about, he’s the third strongest – beneath Zhaitan (2nd) and Jormag (1st) – but this is personal opinion).

First of all, I’d like to add that according to Honor of the Waves Story Mode, Icebrood-ification(?) is also instantaneous. The Kodan in the cutscene was basically flash-frozen. Anyway, as for next most powerful, I want to say it’s a toss-up between Kralkatorrik and Jormag. One one hand, Kralkatorrik crystallized a whole stretch of land from the Blood Legion Homelands to the Crystal Desert, as well as every living thing on that stretch, and can only be harmed by a spear fashioned from the crystal of it’s back.

On the other hand, Jormag drove the Norn, arguably the most powerful of the 5 races, into full retreat, killed several Spirits of the Wild, and all the Norn have is a Tooth that so far, not even Eir Stegalkin has been able to so much as crack.

So, I think Primordus is a runner-up in this sense, but only time will tell. If I had to guess, however, his power is roughly the same as the Deep Sea Dragon, who fashions it’s minions in a similar way to Primordus.

Hello people, Primordus was the first to rise because of the death of his champion the Great Destroyer.

Kinda…his rise was delayed because of the death of his champion
But…irrelavant much?

It’s hard to say where exactly things are going to go with the next expansion. I mean we have 4 elder dragons left, 3 are currently relatively inactive, while 1 (Jormag) seems to be actively spreading his influence.

From a strategic standpoint I would say it makes the most sense to take out Kralkatorrik while a majority of the pact forces are still down in Orr, but with Jormag making such a mess up north, and the possibility that the DSD will be starting to make a mess along the shorelines soon, we’ve got no clue where we will actually go.

Lost Shores my change it but right now I don’t think anybody on Tyria even knows there are five elder dragons. They never talk about the deep sea dragon. The scroll that talks about the dragons in LA only mentions four. My first character (sylvari) is ready to defeat Zaihtan and I still don’t know why the charr, norn or asura care about taking out Zaihtan first.

How about we argue which is more powerful: a tidal wave of gigantic proportions, a huge eathquake or a vulcanic eruption.
Or pretend we are ants and disguss which anteaters we would rather face first or last.
Not that this my dragon is stronger than your dragon is not interesting.
Imo though everything is kept so open storywise by Anet that it could go anywhere.

At the moment, it’s impossible to tell because we don’t have the complete picture yet. There’s still the 5th dragon to consider, possibly even a 6th. Untill those dragons have revealed themselves, there is no way to tell who is the “big bad”.

PS. Yes I know, late post

We seem to have deviated from the matter at hand, but I’ll chip in anywho!

Primordus is evidently the most ominous threat out there. Just the awakening of his champion was enough to cause earthquakes across the world, Elona and Cantha included.
Secondly, he inhabits the depths of Tyria, and we know for a fact his minions are created from stone, no need for any pesky living/dead things to corrupt, virtually all of subsurface Tyria is fair game. We also know he’s not just sitting pretty down there: the destroyers have driven out everything that was below ground (basically) centuries ago, and in the mean time, for all we know, Primordus could have hollowed out most of Tyria (and by that I mean the whole spiel, not just the continent) and turned it into a giant seething mass of destroyers.
Lastly, while one might argue that the DSD could be even more kitten by sheer virtue of us not knowing anything about it, don’t forget that it’s limited to the wet part of the map. Primordus and his minions can strike anywhere and without warning, hell, he could easily collapse every major settlement on the map. Even Rata Sum isn’t out of his reach because he can just annihilate the ground-based reactor keeping it in the sky.

I wouldn’t say that the Deep Sea Dragon is limited to water – it just prefers living there. I’d say the same for any Elder Dragon – Jormag isn’t limited to the colder climates, he just prefers them (and would probably make warmer climates colder to suit his desires – and similarly, I bet the DSD would flood the world to suit his desires).

And I don’t think there’s a ground-based reactor keeping it in the sky – unless I’m missing something, there is no reactor, in fact.

The reactor where you fight the fire elemental is the remnant of a destroyed city cube, it was the ground-based power source.

I’m sure that most will, once the dragons are dead and buried.

And for those saying the ‘We won’t move another inch’ quote has anything to do with it, I believe it was referring to an unwillingness to retreat when confronted with a superior Dragon force as they did before.

I’m a bit surprised that the Dredge aren’t having the same problems given how deep they dig.

How to measure power ? Hmm very difficult question. If we go with cannonical methods the worst evil is the one with least direct methods that hides in the shadows and you know the least about. By that logic the most powerful dragon no doubt should be the unknown 6th – the one affecting the Dream of the silvary. The only thing we know about him come from the Inquest and the fact that they have a 6th corner chamber with plants in their Mount Maelstrom compound. From Subject Alpha’s abilties we know that Mordremoth is a name of either the Depp Sea dragon or the Mysterious 6ht.
Lets look into the Crucible of eternity.
Path 1
- Subject alpha does NOT use the ability called Teeth of Jormag
- The boss just before the end encounter with Subject alpha is Bjarl the Rampager – a minion of Jirmag.
We can call this path – the Jormag path.

Path 3
- Subject alpha does NOT use the ability called Teeth of Primordus
- The boss just before the end encounter with Subject alpha is A minion of Primordus and the path leading to him destroyers.
We can call this path – the Primordus

Path 2 – here things gets interesting
- Subject alpha does NOT use the ability called Teeth of Mordremoth
- The boss just before the end encounter with Subject alpha is an Evolved Husk

If we follow logic from above Mordremoth = the mystery dragon that is linked somehow to corruption of nature and somehow to the silvary (trying even to influence the Dream maybe)

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

I’m sure that most will, once the dragons are dead and buried.

And for those saying the ‘We won’t move another inch’ quote has anything to do with it, I believe it was referring to an unwillingness to retreat when confronted with a superior Dragon force as they did before.

I’m a bit surprised that the Dredge aren’t having the same problems given how deep they dig.

No they won’t, the surface is their home now. The Asura who lived underground have long since passed away. They build an entire civilization on the surface, they are not just going to pack up and leave even when the underground world becomes habitable again. Besides, their main goal is world domination, and I’m pretty sure the surface is part of the world.

However, they might expand their civilization to the depths of Tyria when the dragon threat has passed. Having a Civilization that stretches from the highest mountains to the lowest depths of the world seems like something the Asura would do.

Why’re we counting out Kralk? Kralk’s effect on the environment, creating the Brand, is pretty drastic. And from the map, it looks like he unleashed incredibly destructive force in killing Glint.

I would previously have guessed Zhaitan for strongest, but wouldn’t say so now— partly because he’s the first we face (so it would go against tried-and-tested tropes to make the subsequent threats less), and partly because I imagine ANet are aware the final boss fight was underwhelming for a lot of people.