Guild Wars 2

The question was asked here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Zhaitan-is-small

And I bring you the answer by using this:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Zhaitan%27s_Size.jpg

The rightmost model is Zhaitans original model.
After measuring the head of the original and the in-game model I calculated that the original is approximately 3 times bigger.
So yes Zhaitan is a shrimp compared to what we were originally suppose to fight.

That’s like saying that Amphicoelias fragillimus was small because it was not quite as monstrously huge as a blue whale.

In comparison to this other massive beast, sure. But you’re still the size of an insect relative to both versions of Zhaitan.

You hear of this planet called Earth? Yeah it’s this tiny minuscule rock that orbits a sun hundreds of times larger than it. I mean compared to that sun the planet is nothing…

Just because the original model was massive doesn’t mean the real model is small.

I heard the Marionette’s tiny too.

(I was going to go say “our solar system is small, just look at the galaxy! And even that’s tiny, I mean, look at the universe!” but Narcemus’ comment ruined the joy out of that).

Narcemus.1348:

You hear of this planet called Earth? Yeah it’s this tiny minuscule rock that orbits a sun hundreds of times larger than it. I mean compared to that sun the planet is nothing…

Just because the original model was massive doesn’t mean the real model is small.

Oh that’s cute a layman in astronomy do you know what a parsec is?
Or did you know that a googolplex has so many zero’s that even using a 4mm font to type it the number would still be longer than the diameter of the visible universe?

Now listen layman I did not come here to argue if something is big or not but to answer the question why Zhaitan is small compared to what was expected.

You could have also posted in the old thread. However, the question was long answered in the old thread.

“It is not small, it’s perspective that makes it look small, however, yes, it is small compared to the original design, which would make us like germs in its gums.”

Rikimaru.7890:

why Zhaitan is small compared to what was expected.

What you did is compare non-canon to canon.

He’s smaller because it reduce display calculations, texture size, etc…, since we don’t go near him during the fight it have no impact to our perception of its size.

Yeah, Zaithan felt “small”, but only because i expected something gigantic.

After all in the beginning we were told that just the awakening of the eldar dragons was enough to have whole continents shake.

As they told us for the first time that we had to fight the dragon and that there are several groups needed to do so i envisioned us actually fighting on top of the eldar dragon, as it was there somwhere in Orr, trying to get to his vital parts, slowly taking him down, till we just have to fight his head..

Sadly they only described Orr and we all know how Zaithans fight ended.

That said i still expected something “bigger” after we have seen the back of kraka in GW1 allready, which seems to be the biggest of the EDs so far.
(however if my theory of Primordus being a manifestation of magma, then we can expect a big firery dragon bursting out of some vulcano… i want him throning on the fire islands )

Anyway i hope they really go back and “fix” that fight, as it was kinda underwhelming and not worthy, but that discussion has been done to dead allready i guess.

Overall nice picture and i certainly need a bigger blade. I guess all the giant twohanded swords of the classes have indeed a reason.
Can i get an Zanbato next? Even though we have no horses ingame i still think i need one to slay me some dragons.
Also get the guys from Monster Hunter, they seem to be very good at that.

Rikimaru.7890:

Narcemus.1348:

You hear of this planet called Earth? Yeah it’s this tiny minuscule rock that orbits a sun hundreds of times larger than it. I mean compared to that sun the planet is nothing…

Just because the original model was massive doesn’t mean the real model is small.

Oh that’s cute a layman in astronomy do you know what a parsec is?
Or did you know that a googolplex has so many zero’s that even using a 4mm font to type it the number would still be longer than the diameter of the visible universe?

Now listen layman I did not come here to argue if something is big or not but to answer the question why Zhaitan is small compared to what was expected.

And I did not post on here to be ridiculed by someone by merely punching a hole in their argument. Comparing one model to another doesn’t make the initial thing small, just smaller. As to your other sentences, well I don’t see the point of them.

My personal question is how exactly is the “original model” what you expected when it is a model that we never had a chance to interact with, hmm? Are you some wizard that by chance fought this massive version of Zhaitan unlike the rest of us?

It’s easy to see how sysreqs and the limitations of the engine probably gave them reason to scale down Zhaitan.

But I’m glad they did, because the early concepts were absurdly colossal. The thing was the size of a mountain range. It could have gone on a leisurely stroll and ended civilization in Tyria. If it sneezed it would alter the planet’s rotation. There is no way of making a fight against that believable since nothing short of a meteor impact would likely do more than tickle it.

Velijan.9061:

It’s easy to see how sysreqs and the limitations of the engine probably gave them reason to scale down Zhaitan.

But I’m glad they did, because the early concepts were absurdly colossal. The thing was the size of a mountain range. It could have gone on a leisurely stroll and ended civilization in Tyria. If it sneezed it would alter the planet’s rotation. There is no way of making a fight against that believable since nothing short of a meteor impact would likely do more than tickle it.

It’d be quite reasonable to fight something the size of a mountain range: you’d have to do it from the inside.

(Marcus Fenix and gang would take it out in 30 minutes or less. Pity the Asura haven’t yet invented the chainsaw bayonet.)

In fact on that scale it would barely even be capable of noticing a small army heading to it’s heart- it would have to rely on it’s horrible minions to defend it just like we rely on our immune system and symbiotic organisms.

The final battle might actually be a lot more playable. No need for airships and cannons fighting a proxy battle for the player. Instead we could personally take whatever ancient artifact is necessary and drive it into the innermost corrupted core of the beast’s heart.

It’d make a great motivation for it to extinguish all intelligent life in the first place too. We try to make dangerous microorganisms go extinct all the time. If you woke up and found out your house was filled with horrible, disease-causing black mold wouldn’t you do something about it? And by do something, I mean kill every last tiny, revolting spore?

Dang, now I gotta write this story…

Silalus.8760:

Velijan.9061:

It’s easy to see how sysreqs and the limitations of the engine probably gave them reason to scale down Zhaitan.

But I’m glad they did, because the early concepts were absurdly colossal. The thing was the size of a mountain range. It could have gone on a leisurely stroll and ended civilization in Tyria. If it sneezed it would alter the planet’s rotation. There is no way of making a fight against that believable since nothing short of a meteor impact would likely do more than tickle it.

It’d be quite reasonable to fight something the size of a mountain range: you’d have to do it from the inside.

(Marcus Fenix and gang would take it out in 30 minutes or less. Pity the Asura haven’t yet invented the chainsaw bayonet.)

In fact on that scale it would barely even be capable of noticing a small army heading to it’s heart- it would have to rely on it’s horrible minions to defend it just like we rely on our immune system and symbiotic organisms.

The final battle might actually be a lot more playable. No need for airships and cannons fighting a proxy battle for the player. Instead we could personally take whatever ancient artifact is necessary and drive it into the innermost corrupted core of the beast’s heart.

It’d make a great motivation for it to extinguish all intelligent life in the first place too. We try to make dangerous microorganisms go extinct all the time. If you woke up and found out your house was filled with horrible, disease-causing black mold wouldn’t you do something about it? And by do something, I mean kill every last tiny, revolting spore?

Dang, now I gotta write this story…

I want this. Devil May Cry 3. Heart of Leviathan.

Primordus and Jormag were similar sizes in GW1. Kralkatorrik was the only one that was HUGE, really.

Jamers.1629:

Primordus and Jormag were similar sizes in GW1. Kralkatorrik was the only one that was HUGE, really.

We didnt see Jormag in gw1

Bigtony.5089:

Jamers.1629:

Primordus and Jormag were similar sizes in GW1. Kralkatorrik was the only one that was HUGE, really.

We didnt see Jormag in gw1

My bad, just checked the wiki and it says it was “Drakkar”. I was sure that between GW1 and GW2 it was confirmed that it was Jormag after all, but I guess not.

Well yes, he might now be as big as the others but is still twice the size of the Lt dragons

well..
i guess it would have been TOO unbelievable that dragon of the size of the old model that you linked didnt just push the airship away with a tiny move of his finger…

i mean it already not really logic that zhaitan just doesnt hang himself on the bottom of the airship and turns it around ….
he could have won the fight in few seconds… he could have been flying from under the airship so the laser couldnt hit him…

but yeh… if he was actually THAT big like the old model… would have been TOO unrealistic i guess^^

Jamers.1629:

Bigtony.5089:

Jamers.1629:

Primordus and Jormag were similar sizes in GW1. Kralkatorrik was the only one that was HUGE, really.

We didnt see Jormag in gw1

My bad, just checked the wiki and it says it was “Drakkar”. I was sure that between GW1 and GW2 it was confirmed that it was Jormag after all, but I guess not.

I remember hearing a while after EotN’s release that the dragon in Drakkar lake was Jormag. I also remember hearing closer toward GW2’s release that they decided to change that, changing it to a champion of Jormag instead.

Now I can’t guarantee that’s true, as it’s very possible it was just fan theory at the time that it was stated to be Jormag. It’s been long enough that I can’t specifically recall where it was I read about it.

My understanding is that they changed their interpretation of Drakkar from that of an ED to a champion because they enlarged the size of Elder Dragons. How true that is? No clue…

Jamers.1629:

Bigtony.5089:

Jamers.1629:

Primordus and Jormag were similar sizes in GW1. Kralkatorrik was the only one that was HUGE, really.

We didnt see Jormag in gw1

My bad, just checked the wiki and it says it was “Drakkar”. I was sure that between GW1 and GW2 it was confirmed that it was Jormag after all, but I guess not.

The issue was that players thought that it was confirmed to be Jormag – per wording in the novel Edge of Destiny. This thought derived from peculiar wording and the lack of knowledge that dragon champions can create dragon champions. This was later clarified, however.

Maethor.2810:

I remember hearing a while after EotN’s release that the dragon in Drakkar lake was Jormag. I also remember hearing closer toward GW2’s release that they decided to change that, changing it to a champion of Jormag instead.

Now I can’t guarantee that’s true, as it’s very possible it was just fan theory at the time that it was stated to be Jormag. It’s been long enough that I can’t specifically recall where it was I read about it.

The change was during Eye of the North development. They originally had it to be Jormag in the concept art, changed it to what we see in EotN, then thought “this is too small to be an Elder Dragon,” thought to pass it off as a juvenile Elder Dragon but passed that away as “it gives them a sense of vulnerability we don’t want” (paraphrasing Jeff Grubb’s wording), thus it became a mere dragon champion.