Guild Wars 2

Hi,

I don’t know if this topic has already been discussed, but it struck me as odd that Zhaïtan’s death had little impact over necromancy as a whole. We know the death of an Elder Dragon releases tremendous amounts of energy, some of which has been devoured by others such as Mordremoth or Tequatl. Yet, this is an event of great magnitude, which could be to some extent compared to the unlocking of the bloodstone’s magic (though clearly not as potent). Then, given that Zhaïtan is the dragon of death and corruption, how come we haven’t seen necromancers and their equipement significantly altered? I’m not talking about cosmetics, but about runes, sigils, changed spell effects or even a storyline featuring necromancers seizing this newfound magic…

Now, Arenanet jumped straight ahead with stories featuring Scarlet Briar, which is an interesting story arc in and of itself, but the aftermath of Zhaïtan’s defeat should have been tremendous (the fight, too). Orr itself remains unchanged although it was Zhaïtan who raised it from the depths of the Ocean!

Sorry, I’m ranting. Although I would like to point out that, in a larger perspective, advancements in magic and technology brought by the Inquest, the Durmand Priory and the Pact have only marginally affected players, instead focusing on great machines or artifacts which ultimately became mere plot devices. For instance, the ascended and legendary weapons are not new, they are mostly ancient, forged as likenesses of old Vabbian, Elonian or Ascalonian masterworks, or inspired from the works of talented individuals like Zojja. Eternity is wielded by the Sorcerer Lord garding Arah, which seems to indicate it predates the Searing. In a world were old magics, new technologies and untamed power coincide, arcane research should have a great impact on endgame content: for example, new spells could be unlocked after finishing the personal story, rare gemstones could have effects exceeding mere stats, specific class-based artifacts could change spell effects (as a necro, I’d like to see new models for minions, for instance). There is a plethora of lore elements that could be put into the game through a few specific additions that could ultimately benefit class diversity and background. So, do you think it is at all possible?

While Zhaitan uses magic that is very similar to necromancer, they never said or even implied anywhere that they have anything to do with each other. Necromancers existed long before the world became aware of Zhaitan. You could say that they potentially tapped into his power to allow necromancy to work, however that wouldn’t explain why this type of magic is found all over the world, including different continents. As far as we know the ED’s influence, while great, is still limited locally (aside from the fact that the presence of all of them lower’s the world’s magic level).

I agree with you though, that Anet could provide some lore for some of the magical artifacts players can use, especially the legendary weapons. Aside from looking cool there isn’t really anything special about them. A short story for each one would be cool.

And one last thing: The dragon is spelled Zhaitan not Zhaïtan. If you spell him with an ï his name would be pronounced Zha-ee-tan. It’s however Zhaitan with a diphtong.

Oh sorry about that, it’s how it’s written in the french version (else it would be pronounced Zheta :p ), my bad. Anyways, I hope Anet will bring the new legendaries with some lore behind. But I think classes are lacking a bit of distinct background in this game, since the magic-users have no specific laws, academies or lore explaining how the previous schools of magic became the ones we know and use/love. The only real background I found for gardians is that they use Elonan protection magic. Warriors are self-explanatory, but still, they don’t have this special element that puts them aside from mere fighters, for instance a military history or even ingame books on strategy or how banners came to be created. The shadow arts are clouded in mystery, and the techniques allowing rangers to bind pets aren’t particularly developped… I think it’s a shame that a game that would create such diverse mechanics for classes would fail to give them a proper history and a distinct flavour in lore.

There are exceptions, though, for example the mesmers who have a foothold in human aristocracy and royalty, and their own secret organization. A secret cult of necromancers or an academy for elementalists wouldn’t be too much to ask, I think.

Regarding your comment on Zhaitan’s energies, I agree there is no official link with necromancers, yet a number of orrian minions were necromancers or undead, and would provide exciting research opportunities for masters of the dark arts, one can only imagine the wealth of tomes and corrupted artifacts found in Arah. Whatever his nature, Zhaitan’s demise would have provided necromancers with great opportunities, and I feel like this has not been underlined enough in the story.

I’ll stay clear of the part that wanders into character progression and stats, since that’s not my area of expertise, but on Zhaitan’s death- we don’t know that there was any cataclysmic surge of power afterwards. With Glint, who was set up to be a kind of proto-Elder Dragon in S2, the power she had consumed seemed to have largely remained in her corpse. It could well be that the same is true of Zhaitan, and that his magic will only trickle out at the same rate it did while he was sleeping.

Well, if you look at it at a certain way, with the latest major patch, player characters did get a power up across the board…

I agree for the most part, but the Glint appearing in Edge of Destiny is but a child compared to Kralkatorrik, who is more of a raw maelström of power. Besides, we know that when power was oozing from Zhaitan sleeping under Arah, it spawned the most advanced arcane civilization in Tyria, except perhaps for the Asura prior to Primordus’s awakening. Wether it bursts or it trickles, Zhaitan’s magic is still capable of creating a massive energy surge throughout the entire world in the months or maybe years following his demise.

Tuomir.1830:

Well, if you look at it at a certain way, with the latest major patch, player characters did get a power up across the board…

Yeah, but it’d be cool if this power up had some kind of dragon-related background other than the dragonhunter idea of “adapting to the fight against Mordremoth”

Dracyon Imperius.6309:

Oh sorry about that, it’s how it’s written in the french version (else it would be pronounced Zheta :p ), my bad.

No problem. That means you’re french, hu? If that’s the case: Hello, neighbor! Hope you had a nice Bastille Day.

If you haven’t played GW1 or read through the GW1 wiki, there is a bit more lore to the profession there. Not too much and of course not all classes match up, but it’s a start.

It created that civilization, supposedly, after 10,000 years of leaking, we still don’t know if the Orrians magical know-how is attributable to Zhaitan or the Gods or some other factor, and even if it was Zhaitan, it only affected Orr. His corpse at this point has only been leaking for three years, and no one’s in Orr except any Pact that didn’t get moved over to Mordremoth and maybe some Inquest.

Half french only^^ but thanks! Actually, I read an interview with one of the developpers on the topic of magic, and she said that the schools of magic such as Preservation or Agression were largely irrelevant in modern Tyria (without explaining how classes were maintained per say). I played GW1 for about a year, and as far as I can see, many such changes have occurred in the old classes, I don’t remember illusions for mesmers or banners for warriors, the lore provided in the first Guild Wars, while useful to understand the history of classes, is becoming a little too obsolete.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

It created that civilization, supposedly, after 10,000 years of leaking, we still don’t know if the Orrians magical know-how is attributable to Zhaitan or the Gods or some other factor, and even if it was Zhaitan, it only affected Orr. His corpse at this point has only been leaking for three years, and no one’s in Orr except any Pact that didn’t get moved over to Mordremoth and maybe some Inquest.

You’re absolutely right, although the death of a such a powerful creature has consequences that are difficult to fathom. Zhaitan was one of the great magical beings of Tyria, after all, and his passing should have repercussions on the fabric of magic itself worldwide.

Half-neighbor then^^. Anyway, there is the vision Omadd’s machine gave us, so that there are consequences is pretty much confirmed, we just don’t know what exactly they are (aside from Tequatl’s power boost). I guess the plot of HoT will tell us, along with the purpose of Glint’s egg.

Omadd’s machine suggested that there were not only consequences, but a chain reaction, since the departure of one orb causes all the others to go haywire. In that case, maybe part of the draconic magic flows within a cycle, making the dragons more powerful with each elder dragon dying. In that case, I wonder what will happen once the last dragon dies…

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I’ll stay clear of the part that wanders into character progression and stats, since that’s not my area of expertise, but on Zhaitan’s death- we don’t know that there was any cataclysmic surge of power afterwards. With Glint, who was set up to be a kind of proto-Elder Dragon in S2, the power she had consumed seemed to have largely remained in her corpse. It could well be that the same is true of Zhaitan, and that his magic will only trickle out at the same rate it did while he was sleeping.

Well it seems more like magic leaks from them at a similar rate irrespective of how alive they are. As apposed to say Abaddon who basically turned into a magic nuke.

Dracyon Imperius.6309:

I agree for the most part, but the Glint appearing in Edge of Destiny is but a child compared to Kralkatorrik, who is more of a raw maelström of power. Besides, we know that when power was oozing from Zhaitan sleeping under Arah, it spawned the most advanced arcane civilization in Tyria, except perhaps for the Asura prior to Primordus’s awakening. Wether it bursts or it trickles, Zhaitan’s magic is still capable of creating a massive energy surge throughout the entire world in the months or maybe years following his demise.

I don’t think the link between Orr, Zhaitan and the Human Gods was ever clarified. Orr seems to have been built ontop of Zhaitan because of how magic the area was. Although I find it a bit odd that at least the Human Gods were unaware of a sleeping Elder Dragon beneath them. But I guess it is possible, the Human Gods aren’t native to Tyria and they only arrived after the previous Rising of the EDs had… lowered? fell? dropped? Well they appeared between the two risings in anycase so the Gods and the EDs were (as far as I know) never present in the same place at the same time.

Dracyon Imperius.6309:

Omadd’s machine suggested that there were not only consequences, but a chain reaction, since the departure of one orb causes all the others to go haywire. In that case, maybe part of the draconic magic flows within a cycle, making the dragons more powerful with each elder dragon dying. In that case, I wonder what will happen once the last dragon dies…

This is probably what I’m most interested in, now that the cycle has been broken anything could happen and I do hope very much that something unexpected and unlike any previous cycle occurs.

Dracyon Imperius.6309:

You’re absolutely right, although the death of a such a powerful creature has consequences that are difficult to fathom. Zhaitan was one of the great magical beings of Tyria, after all, and his passing should have repercussions on the fabric of magic itself worldwide.

It’s heavily implied in Hidden Arcana of Season 2 Episode 5 that there will be heavy repercussions from killing Zhaitan – and that we may have already seen some in the form of Tequatl’s power boost – but that these repercussions take a long time (relatively speaking) to manifest, in the same manner that it takes a long time for magic to go from drained in the world to so heavy the Elder Dragons awake (the implied repercussions are that magic will become too heavy in the world, causing magical calamities – by my image, I think we’re talking about Thaumanova to Cataclysm/Searing/Foefire/Jade Wind level stuff).

Given all the foreshadowing there was in Hidden Arcana, it seems that this topic will be discussed in more length in Heart of Thorns.

Dracyon Imperius.6309:

Omadd’s machine suggested that there were not only consequences, but a chain reaction, since the departure of one orb causes all the others to go haywire. In that case, maybe part of the draconic magic flows within a cycle, making the dragons more powerful with each elder dragon dying. In that case, I wonder what will happen once the last dragon dies…

Omadd’s machine appears to have shown the Elder Dragons’ order of waking, with then one orb crashing into Tyria to cause darkness – the question is whether this crashing orb was Zhaitan’s (as the Priory’s map of The All – The All being what we see in the machine’s vision – implies, thus indicating that his death will result in something bad) or Mordremoth’s (which implies that he is more active than any other Elder Dragon, or more destructive).

The chain reaction of all orbs moving does not seem to be a result of Zhaitan’s death, but Primordus waking up (if anything beyond high magic levels being the cause).