Guild Wars 2

A light bulb popped up in my head a few hours after posting my previous thread here

It’s all connected! So I wrote up a bit of a theory on this.

There are 6 types of magic, this magic must be in balance otherwise everything becomes unwound.
There is a system to maintain magic on tyria so it does not go out of balance.
the gods are the caretakers of the 6 kinds of magics.
If the magic ever becomes too out of balance the elder dragons awake to rebalance it by consuming all magic of their type, go to sleep, and slowly re-releasing it. This is why dragon’s don’t attack other dragon minions, because they are not their type.This is why dragon minions can’t corrupt other dragon’s minions, because there is no magic of their type inside.

in the previous dragon attack 10,000 years ago:
-gods take care of Tyria
-a magic unbalance is detected causing one of their champions to rise.
-gods disappear as their dragons wake.
-the champion finds a ley line hub that intersects with their elder dragon.
-the elder dragon is awoken by their champion.
-dragons absorb all magic on Tyria
-once all magic is absorbed the dragons fall to sleep and begin -slowly releasing the magic they consumed.
-gods return.

This would be the normal cycle of things.

our dragon attack:
-gods take care of tyria
-Dhuum is defeated by Grenth and a small amount of green magic is released.
-the magic unbalance is detected causing one of their champions to rise.(The first great destroyer)
-great dwarf defeats great destroyer.
-gods balances out the magic before another champion awakes.
-Abaddon refused to keep the balance and the other gods stopped him.
-Abaddon takes revenge on gods for trapping him.(nightfall)
-the other gods choose Kormir to be the next god.
-Kormir takes over for Abaddon
-Kormir tries to reverse the damage but too much magic has been released.
-the gods disappear.
-Second Great destroyer awakes and is defeated(EOTN)
-a third great destroyer awakes and succeeds in awakening Primordus.
-remaining elder dragons awake
-Zhaitan is killed and releases his magic causing a great unbalance.
-Ceara uses Omadds machine.
-Ceara saw that the death of Zhaitan has caused a great disturbance in the balance.
-Mordremoth spots her in the mists and corrupts her into scarlet.
-Ceara became two personalities Scarlet and Ceara. Scarlet being dominant.
-Ceara tries to stop Scarlet, she succeeds in causing some chaos in her plans, but each time scarlet just tries again.
-She instead sends a letter to the hero of the pact under the name of “E” to warn him/her of what she’s going to do.
-scarlet becomes Mordremoth’s champion and awakes the elder dragon.

First. Scarlet is dead, but Ceara is still alive. In the Battle for Lion’s Arch cutscene you can see strange veins on scarlet’s face this is her body regenerating. After we escape she awakes free of scarlet. She uses a secret escape route that drops her into the ocean where she ends up in a nearby cave. (the secret cave that appeared right after.) Now that she’s free, she wants to stop Mordremoth but what she has done no one will forgive her for, so she instead continues to warn us about Mordremoth as “E”. Dis-proven thanks, Konig Des Todes

Now we get to the problems.

When elder dragons awake, they unleash an explosion of magical

energy.
Primordus created a volcano.
Jormag melted the northern shiverpeaks.
bubbles did something to cause quaggans and krait to escape the

oceans. Kralkatorrik corrupted a large line of the map before exploding

the magic at glint’s lair.
Zhaitan rose orr.

This means Mordremoth has not yet awoken and a large cataclysm is

very near that will signify the dragon’s awakening.

Additionally, with zhaitan dead no one can control the death(dark

green) magic and is now going out of control in the mists.

Mordremoth and Tequalt have taken a part of the magic to increase

their own power. This is why Mordremoth’s minions look undead

like. Without a elder dragon the dark green magic will continue

to corrupt everything.

The orbs and Celestial space
in the new cutscene we see orbs surrounding a center orb. This is

the universe of tyria as seen from “celestial space”. This is why

it looks so similar to the map in gw1 of the realm of torment as

the map we saw showed the celestial space of the realm as it did

not have enough physical space to warrant a standard map.

The orbs around the outside are the containers of the 6 magic’s

(the elder dragons).
They in turn are taken care of by one of the six gods.
white orb = Dwayna = Jormag
red orb = Balthazar = Primordus
light green orb = Melandru = Mordremoth
purple orb = Lyssa = Kralkatorrik
dark green orb = Grenth = Zhaitan
blue orb= Kormir = bubbles

The irregular one in the list is the white orb. Why is the god of

warmth watching over the magic of cold? A bigger question is why

did the awakening of Jormag cause the shiverpeaks to melt? This

is because Jormag’s minions are beings of life. They are giving

life to what’s around them (they are the titans from gw1!) We

have only seen them in the shiverpeaks so we only see them as

ice. if Jormag minions would move into another area they would

change to match that area. The Sons of Svanir know nothing of

this and think Jormag is just an ice dragon as snow is the only

thing it has available to it.

To sum up the key parts:
6 Types of magic(Fire,Life,Chaos,Nature,Water,Death)
6Elder Dragons balance magic by consuming magic of their type.
Ceara is still alive and helping us as “E”
The magic Zhaitan had is now lose and corrupting the mists.
Mordremoth is not awake yet but will soon with a massive

explosion of nature magic.
Jormag’s minons are titans and they adapt to what area there in.

There aren’t “six types of magic”, there are four schools.

You completely skipped the bloodstones.
There have already been many threads trying to tie the dragons to the gods, and it never works.
Jormag’s minions are certainly NOT titans.
If the dragons’ champions must wake their masters, which did Kralk fly to Glint and not the other way around?
They have said that Scarlet is dead. No one wants to see her return anyway.
There’s no reason to believe Scarlet had multiple personality disorder.
Primordius is nowhere near that volcano and Jormag (the ice dragon) doesn’t melt things.
Bubbles just did normal dragon stuff that caused them to flee, just like the Asura fled from destroyers and the Norn fled from Jormag’s minions.
Zhaitan doesn’t control death. Grenth does.
Mordremoth’s minions don’t look undead at all. In fact, they’re quite planty and alive.

I’m sorry to say this, but I can’t see any bit of this being accurate.
If the new writers that they have for GW2 write any of this (which completely over-writesGW1 lore) I will never play the game again.

narwhalsbend.7059:

There aren’t “six types of magic”, there are four schools.

You completely skipped the bloodstones.
There have already been many threads trying to tie the dragons to the gods, and it never works.
Jormag’s minions are certainly NOT titans.
If the dragons’ champions must wake their masters, which did Kralk fly to Glint and not the other way around?
They have said that Scarlet is dead. No one wants to see her return anyway.
There’s no reason to believe Scarlet had multiple personality disorder.
Primordius is nowhere near that volcano and Jormag (the ice dragon) doesn’t melt things.
Bubbles just did normal dragon stuff that caused them to flee, just like the Asura fled from destroyers and the Norn fled from Jormag’s minions.
Zhaitan doesn’t control death. Grenth does.
Mordremoth’s minions don’t look undead at all. In fact, they’re quite planty and alive.

I’m sorry to say this, but I can’t see any bit of this being accurate.
If the new writers that they have for GW2 write any of this (which completely over-writesGW1 lore) I will never play the game again.

magic “Schools” is an old classification for human magic. It says on the gw2 wiki “Over time, these schools came to be seen as limiting and unfashionable, and only the most ancient magic users still adhere to them.” Additionally the schools where only put into place since they knew of only four bloodstones at the time(they had no idea the fifth one even existed!). As to the bloodstone, it was split into five pieces instead of six was because abaddon did not want to seal the magic, he refused to seal his and the remaining gods dethroned him, and sealed it among the remaining pieces.

Thinking on this I think i was off a bit. I don’t think Jormag is looting Abaddon’s locker for his minions, rather abaddon copied Jormag. Titans where poor copies that couldn’t keep their proper forms. Jormag’s minons keep their proper forms. this is still a weak part as it is theorizing on the fact that Jormag itself is not acting like an ice dragon.

Glint is the black sheep of the dragon champion family her original task was to sabotage the races of Tyria and prepare the world for Kralkatorrik. However, when she peered into the minds of the races of tyria and decided to protect them against the dragons rather than help Kralkatorrik.

My theory is that there are an endless amount of dragon champions (grown, regenerate, or something else) If one is killed another rises soon after.

Once the other dragon’s began to stir, another champion of Kralkatorrik awoke and woke him up instead. Once Kralkatorrik found out what glint had done he rushed south to destroy her.

For scarlet she is dead, or at least the corruption that created scarlet. ceara somehow survived. A multiple personality was hinted at many times throughout the story as a voice taking her over.

Nobody knows where Primordius is, and with how he operates (moving underground) it’s not a long stretch have a Primordius version of the brand underground.

You might want to check your map sometime for Jormag because where he awoke is one big lake now. Don’t you think a Giant Elder dragon of Ice would have frozen at least some of that?

Bubbles is not even on the map. we have no idea what he’s doing or what happened when he awoke. Until we get some lore of bubbles he’s always going to be the mystery dragon.

For someone who does not control death, Zhaitan certainly had a lot of dead under his control.

For Mordrem You can hug the Mordrem wolf first if you think it looks alive. To me it looks like a dead dog that’s been corrupted by plants.

Zhaitan only controlled 20% of magic so the effects of his magic will not be so obvious until the scales tip further out of balance. My guess is a few hundred years or so. That is unless a few more Elder dragons croak

zerorogue.9410:

You might want to check your map sometime for Jormag because where he awoke is one big lake now. Don’t you think a Giant Elder dragon of Ice would have frozen at least some of that?

Jormag isn’t even on the map.

You didn’t mention anything really about the bloodstones in specific and made assumptions about Abbadon.

Jormag’s minions look nothing like the titans. rather they are corrupted mortal creatures or created elementals that only share passing resemblance because of the model similarities.

You also theorize without any support that champions just come out of nowhere. If they can summon them why don’t they just use hundreds of champions to overwhelm us instead of throwing kill-able minions at us?

Still nothing to support your “scarlet is alive” hypothesis that contradicts the devs.

No one knows where Primordius is, so the best guess is that he’s still in the Central Transfer Chamber.

We never saw where Jormag was. The dragon in the lake was a Champion of Jormag.

Zhaitan does not control death as much as any random necromancer controls death.

I can take a closer look at the Mordrem wolf when I find that render, but they look planty to me. They are just as alive as branded or icebrood.

And your last paragraph has nothing to do with anything except your own unfounded theories.

RedStar.4218:

zerorogue.9410:

You might want to check your map sometime for Jormag because where he awoke is one big lake now. Don’t you think a Giant Elder dragon of Ice would have frozen at least some of that?

Jormag isn’t even on the map.

Besides Zhaitan, we have no idea where any of the Elder dragons are currently, and we only know where 3 of them woke up. Jormag is not in either of those groups. The only thing we can do. Is guess their position by damage done on the map. In the northern Shiverpeaks there is now a massive lake that was not there 250 years ago. This lake could not have been made by the tsunami caused by zhaitan that created other lakes as there was a mountain where that lake is now, and a wave powerful enough to dissolve the mountain would have likely killed every living thing on tyria.

This lake must have been created by a massively powerful entity. Since Jormag’s lore says he awoke north of Hoelbrak, he fits the bill. Once agian this leads me to the fact that flies in the face of what we know about Jormag. If Jormag created the lake why is not frozen?

guys, can we please have some standard formating when presenting speculation?

first, give off your idea, in a concise manner, but still detailed enough that we get your point. THEN you jump to explanations and evidence and supporting theories.

i feel like this would prevent the “TL;DR” problem of many new threads…

narwhalsbend.7059:

You didn’t mention anything really about the bloodstones in specific and made assumptions about Abbadon.

Jormag’s minions look nothing like the titans. rather they are corrupted mortal creatures or created elementals that only share passing resemblance because of the model similarities.

You also theorize without any support that champions just come out of nowhere. If they can summon them why don’t they just use hundreds of champions to overwhelm us instead of throwing kill-able minions at us?

Still nothing to support your “scarlet is alive” hypothesis that contradicts the devs.

No one knows where Primordius is, so the best guess is that he’s still in the Central Transfer Chamber.

We never saw where Jormag was. The dragon in the lake was a Champion of Jormag.

Zhaitan does not control death as much as any random necromancer controls death.

I can take a closer look at the Mordrem wolf when I find that render, but they look planty to me. They are just as alive as branded or icebrood.

And your last paragraph has nothing to do with anything except your own unfounded theories.

bloodstones: Read the Gw1 wiki articles about bloodstones and abbadon it backs up what I said.

tians: Look at the Gw1 article of titans, it shows a frost titan right there, It looks extremely similar to any icebrood. Additionally the titan theory I said again is biased on the issue with Jormag so more information is needed to solidify either way.

champions: Just because you can build a boat, doesn’t mean you can build a hundred every day, nor have the wood to make it. especially when your sleeping.

Scarlet:I have already laid out all the evidence I had. if you want to argue this point please dispute some of it rather than just saying wrong.

Primordius: There is no telling where he is but It is without a double the volcano was caused by him.

Jormag :read my last post above.

Zhaitan:I would like to see your evidence that Zhaitan is “as much as any random necromancer controls death.”

Mordrem Wolf: http://i.imgur.com/4VDMJpl.jpg http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/69/Mordrem_Wolf.jpg In both picture’s it is clear the head is a skull. You can even see a spine and bones in the first.

BrunoBRS.5178:

guys, can we please have some standard formating when presenting speculation?

first, give off your idea, in a concise manner, but still detailed enough that we get your point. THEN you jump to explanations and evidence and supporting theories.

i feel like this would prevent the “TL;DR” problem of many new threads…

I wish they would give us better formatting with these posts. I apologize if there’s a misunderstanding but this was the best way I thought to convey the information. Much of this is very complex and goes through many topics in the guild wars universe. I tried to group things by topic so everything was in order. also much of the information explaining parts is still stuck in the other thread(since it was a springboard for this concept.)

zerorogue.9410:

RedStar.4218:

zerorogue.9410:

You might want to check your map sometime for Jormag because where he awoke is one big lake now. Don’t you think a Giant Elder dragon of Ice would have frozen at least some of that?

Jormag isn’t even on the map.

Besides Zhaitan, we have no idea where any of the Elder dragons are currently, and we only know where 3 of them woke up. Jormag is not in either of those groups. The only thing we can do. Is guess their position by damage done on the map. In the northern Shiverpeaks there is now a massive lake that was not there 250 years ago. This lake could not have been made by the tsunami caused by zhaitan that created other lakes as there was a mountain where that lake is now, and a wave powerful enough to dissolve the mountain would have likely killed every living thing on tyria.

This lake must have been created by a massively powerful entity. Since Jormag’s lore says he awoke north of Hoelbrak, he fits the bill. Once agian this leads me to the fact that flies in the face of what we know about Jormag. If Jormag created the lake why is not frozen?

You’re the one who said to check the map and see where Jormag awoke. Except that we can’t see that on the map.

Jormag awoke way off to the North, even farther than where Kodans and Quaggans used to live.

Primordus woke up way closer to where you’re talking about.

There’s no reason to believe the titans have anything to do with Jormag. We know where they come from and it’s not Jormag. In fact, Jormag most likely has never left Tyria, so how would he know what they look like, and vice versa for Abbadon, who, even according to your theories, left before the dragons came around. As I submitted earlier, they look similar because elementals often share similar structure, just like the Risen Ashen Hulks looked like Oakhearts and Hands/Fists of the Titans resemble Ice Elementals.

As for all the other stuff you said:
I did dispute it, much of it which is just wrong by the virtue of being wrong, and I often did it with facts.
Instead of telling me to not tell you you’re wrong, why don’t you find some facts to back up your hypothesis beyond making conjectures like “It is without a doubt the volcano was caused by [Primordius]” when there is no definitive evidence.

/prepares to rip this theory a new one.

zerorogue.9410:

There are 6 types of magic, this magic must be in balance otherwise everything becomes unwound.
There is a system to maintain magic on tyria so it does not go out of balance.
the gods are the caretakers of the 6 kinds of magics.
If the magic ever becomes too out of balance the elder dragons awake to rebalance it by consuming all magic of their type, go to sleep, and slowly re-releasing it. This is why dragon’s don’t attack other dragon minions, because they are not their type.

• What would be the six ‘types of magic’ exactly? The orbs are outright stated to be tied to the dragons and the dragons function the same but with different elements (something tied to nature, not magic).
• The Six Gods are not native to Tyria, why would they be tied to the magic types of Tyria?
• The Six Gods’ ‘magic’ and the Elder Dragons ‘magic’ do not line up perfectly.
• Actually, dragon minions do attack each other should they cross each others’ paths – or so we’ve been told in interviews by Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb; we just don’t see this in-game (and nothing in-game counteracts this… yet).

zerorogue.9410:

in the previous dragon attack 10,000 years ago:
-gods take care of Tyria
-a magic unbalance is detected causing one of their champions to rise.
-gods disappear as their dragons wake.
-the champion finds a ley line hub that intersects with their elder dragon.
-the elder dragon is awoken by their champion.
-dragons absorb all magic on Tyria
-once all magic is absorbed the dragons fall to sleep and begin -slowly releasing the magic they consumed.
-gods return.

• The Six Gods first appeared in the world after the previous dragon rise, from another world.
• Drakkar, the champion who woke Jormag, did not feed off of a ley line but off of the Sons of Svanir’s magic. The Great Destroyer is the only other champion to wake an Elder Dragon (excluding the debatable case of Scarlet Briar), and similarly no known case of feeding Primordus ley line magic since the Great Destroyer was at Primordus itself.

zerorogue.9410:

our dragon attack:
-gods take care of tyria
-Dhuum is defeated by Grenth and a small amount of green magic is released.
-the magic unbalance is detected causing one of their champions to rise.(The first great destroyer)
-great dwarf defeats great destroyer.
-gods balances out the magic before another champion awakes.
-Abaddon refused to keep the balance and the other gods stopped him.
-Abaddon takes revenge on gods for trapping him.(nightfall)
-the other gods choose Kormir to be the next god.
-Kormir takes over for Abaddon
-Kormir tries to reverse the damage but too much magic has been released.
-the gods disappear.
-Second Great destroyer awakes and is defeated(EOTN)
-a third great destroyer awakes and succeeds in awakening Primordus.
-remaining elder dragons awake
-Zhaitan is killed and releases his magic causing a great unbalance.
-Ceara uses Omadds machine.
-Ceara saw that the death of Zhaitan has caused a great disturbance in the balance.
-Mordremoth spots her in the mists and corrupts her into scarlet.
-Ceara became two personalities Scarlet and Ceara. Scarlet being dominant.
-Ceara tries to stop Scarlet, she succeeds in causing some chaos in her plans, but each time scarlet just tries again.
-She instead sends a letter to the hero of the pact under the name of “E” to warn him/her of what she’s going to do.
-scarlet becomes Mordremoth’s champion and awakes the elder dragon.

• The Great Dwarf/Great Destroyer battle was during the previous rise. This is confirmed fact.
• The “green” orb was Mordremoth. By the Dragon/God correlation argument, that’d be Melandru. Grenth/Dhuum would be Black by the theory and color allignment of the EDs.
• The Gods did not balance magic before Abaddon’s situation – they released magic from the Bloodstone, and Abaddon released more than the rest causing wars between the races. These wars is what brought about King Doric’s plea and the splitting of the Bloodstone into 5.
• Magic had been releasing slowly for 1,000 years by the time of Kormir’s ascension. Nightfall did not introduce new magic to all our knowledge but threatened to merge Tyria and the Realm of Torment.
• There is no mention of a “third” Great Destroyer awakening – given that the rise of Primordus had been highlighted, I think such would have been mentioned.
• Ceara used Omadd’s machine before Zhaitan’s fall – she was Scarlet Briar before the Thaumanova Reactor’s explosion, and this happened before any content we played.
• We received a letter from E after Scarlet/Ceara’s death. This disproves the idea that Ceara is E.

zerorogue.9410:

First. Scarlet is dead, but Ceara is still alive. In the Battle for Lion’s Arch cutscene you can see strange veins on scarlet’s face this is her body regenerating. After we escape she awakes free of scarlet.

We killed the body. Resurrection is a magic that no longer exists in the world. Scarlet and Ceara – even if different personalities – is long gone. Also, sylvari are known for fast body deterioration after death (GoA p261: “Despite the rain falling on her figure freely now, her skin was already starting to turn black around the edges, like petals of a plucked flower.”) – this happened only a few moments after her death. The yellow veins could have been akin to this.

And there’s no evidence of a split personality.

zerorogue.9410:

When elder dragons awake, they unleash an explosion of magical energy.
Primordus created a volcano.
Jormag melted the northern shiverpeaks.
bubbles did something to cause quaggans and krait to escape the oceans.
Kralkatorrik corrupted a large line of the map before exploding the magic at glint’s lair.
Zhaitan rose orr.

This means Mordremoth has not yet awoken and a large cataclysm is very near that will signify the dragon’s awakening.

Primordus did not create Mount Maelstrom until decades after waking – if Sea of Sorrows is any indication, nearly a century after. Jormag did not melt the Shiverpeaks, he shattered them. The DSD’s rise has shown no indications of cataclysm. Kralkatorrik did not “explode magic” at Glint’s lair – and unlike Jormag and Zhaitan (by all indication), his cataclysm was actively decided. And Mordremoth is awake – all those large untargetable vines are stated by Taimi to be Mordremoth itself.

zerorogue.9410:

Mordremoth and Tequalt have taken a part of the magic to increase their own power. This is why Mordremoth’s minions look undead like. Without a elder dragon the dark green magic will continue to corrupt everything.

Mordremoth’s minions don’t look undead like at all. A skull does not make undead!

zerorogue.9410:

The orbs and Celestial space
in the new cutscene we see orbs surrounding a center orb. This is the universe of tyria as seen from “celestial space”. This is why it looks so similar to the map in gw1 of the realm of torment as the map we saw showed the celestial space of the realm as it did not have enough physical space to warrant a standard map. The orbs around the outside are the containers of the 6 magic’s (the elder dragons).

The map of the Realm of Torment is an alchemy circle-design which is always used in mapping the Mists from a lore viewpoint.

zerorogue.9410:

They in turn are taken care of by one of the six gods.
white orb = Dwayna = Jormag
red orb = Balthazar = Primordus
light green orb = Melandru = Mordremoth
purple orb = Lyssa = Kralkatorrik
dark green orb = Grenth = Zhaitan
blue orb= Kormir = bubbles

This relation doesn’t work. Why?

Nothing relates Dwayna and Jormag.
Nothing relates Kormir and the DSD.
Nothing relates Lyssa and Kralkatorrik.

zerorogue.9410:

The irregular one in the list is the white orb. Why is the god of warmth watching over the magic of cold? A bigger question is why did the awakening of Jormag cause the shiverpeaks to melt? This is because Jormag’s minions are beings of life. They are giving life to what’s around them (they are the titans from gw1!) We have only seen them in the shiverpeaks so we only see them as ice. if Jormag minions would move into another area they would change to match that area. The Sons of Svanir know nothing of this and think Jormag is just an ice dragon as snow is the only thing it has available to it.

Again, this fails because Jormag didn’t melt ice. He shattered mountains.

zerorogue.9410:

To sum up the key parts:
6 Types of magic(Fire,Life,Chaos,Nature,Water,Death)
6Elder Dragons balance magic by consuming magic of their type.
Ceara is still alive and helping us as “E”
The magic Zhaitan had is now lose and corrupting the mists.
Mordremoth is not awake yet but will soon with a massive explosion of nature magic.
Jormag’s minons are titans and they adapt to what area there in.

Types of magic we’re aware of are:

• Elemental
• Dark
• Light
• Chaos
• Dragon

The last one is really just “corruptive magic exuded by the Elder Dragons” while the above four are different forms and purposes of magic. This is just a general listing too, and not in depth where we can divide Elemental into four (Fire, Ice/Water, Earth, Air/Lightning), and include things like ether, arcane, etc.

Ceara is dead. There is no resurrection. We killed her. And sylvari have shown no indication of having a soul for resurrection anyways.

Why would Tyrian magic corrupt the Mists?

Mordremoth is very much awake. He’s just not as physically cataclysmic as the others when awakening (excluding Primordus). Kralkatorrik was akin to this too – he only made the Dragonbrand on his way to kill Glint, and was an active decision on his part unlike Zhaitan and Jormag (to all our knowledge).

Titans are tormented souls turned into demons of sorts. They hold no relation to any of the Elder Dragons. Jormag’s minions are all ice – we see icebrood in the Maguuma Jungle for crying out loud! That’s not adapting to their environment!

narwhalsbend.7059:

There aren’t “six types of magic”, there are four schools.

Types of magic and schools of magic are two different things, technically speaking.

zerorogue.9410:

magic “Schools” is an old classification for human magic. It says on the gw2 wiki “Over time, these schools came to be seen as limiting and unfashionable, and only the most ancient magic users still adhere to them.” Additionally the schools where only put into place since they knew of only four bloodstones at the time(they had no idea the fifth one even existed!). As to the bloodstone, it was split into five pieces instead of six was because abaddon did not want to seal the magic, he refused to seal his and the remaining gods dethroned him, and sealed it among the remaining pieces.

Downright wrong.

The schools were relevant by all indication – but due to the magic being more ambient in the world became less relevant over time.

Humanity ALWAYS knew of the keystone. There is no school associated with the fifth Bloodstone because it’s a keystone.

The number of Bloodstones is irrelevant to the number of gods!

zerorogue.9410:

Thinking on this I think i was off a bit. I don’t think Jormag is looting Abaddon’s locker for his minions, rather abaddon copied Jormag. Titans where poor copies that couldn’t keep their proper forms. Jormag’s minons keep their proper forms. this is still a weak part as it is theorizing on the fact that Jormag itself is not acting like an ice dragon.

Titans and icebrood are in every way, shape, and form completely different.

zerorogue.9410:

Glint is the black sheep of the dragon champion family her original task was to sabotage the races of Tyria and prepare the world for Kralkatorrik. However, when she peered into the minds of the races of tyria and decided to protect them against the dragons rather than help Kralkatorrik.

Not entirely right. She was given free will by the Forgotten’s ritual, and this combined with reading their minds made her betray Kralkatorrik. Still, Kralkatorrik awoke without a known champion waking him.

zerorogue.9410:

My theory is that there are an endless amount of dragon champions (grown, regenerate, or something else) If one is killed another rises soon after.

Not really endless, but there can be multiple champions at a single time. But they must be created by the Elder Dragon first, and this can only be done while awake (Elder Dragons do not corrupt personally while asleep). This is no theory, it is fact. It is also fact that Glint spent the past several thousand years preparing to fight Kralkatorrik’s inevitable return.

zerorogue.9410:

Once the other dragon’s began to stir, another champion of Kralkatorrik awoke and woke him up instead. Once Kralkatorrik found out what glint had done he rushed south to destroy her.

There is no indication of another champion of Kralkatorrik from the previous dragonrise beyond Glint. There could not be a new one made after Glint was freed unless there was already a second champion. This is how dragon corruption works as presented to us. The only means of corruption while an Elder Dragon sleeps is via a champion.

zerorogue.9410:

For scarlet she is dead, or at least the corruption that created scarlet. ceara somehow survived. A multiple personality was hinted at many times throughout the story as a voice taking her over.

The voice was the entity, the one who was telling her – Scarlet Briar – to do things. Not a voice trying to stop her. By all indication, the voice was Mordremoth.

Ceara couldn’t have survived. We killed her. And resurrection does not exist anymore.

zerorogue.9410:

Nobody knows where Primordius is, and with how he operates (moving underground) it’s not a long stretch have a Primordius version of the brand underground.

True, but we know where he awoke – far away from Mount Maelstrom (he awoke underneath the barrier between Frostgorge and Fireheart Rise). He was also unknown to most Tyrians as the existence of Elder Dragons was generally unknown until Jormag. Only the dwarves, some asura (those who returned to the depths after the Great Destroyer’s demise) and the Order of Whispers – and select others, the specifics unknown to us players – knew of Primordus when it awoke.

zerorogue.9410:

You might want to check your map sometime for Jormag because where he awoke is one big lake now. Don’t you think a Giant Elder dragon of Ice would have frozen at least some of that?

Jormag awoke near the arctic sea. The creature that awoke beneath Drakkar Lake was merely his champion. There is no indication that Jormag is on the map presently – though it’s entirely possible. Jormag could have frozen that inland sea, btw, nothing says it’s fully liquid.

zerorogue.9410:

Bubbles is not even on the map. we have no idea what he’s doing or what happened when he awoke. Until we get some lore of bubbles he’s always going to be the mystery dragon.

But there is no indication of a cataclysm event. Such an event would have no doubt caused a tidal wave due to the shifting of water, which would have been about 50 years prior to GW2’s time – 50 years after Zhaitan’s rise.

zerorogue.9410:

For someone who does not control death, Zhaitan certainly had a lot of dead under his control.

He corrupts corpses. They’re undead, not dead. Many of his minions preach about immortality through undeath.

zerorogue.9410:

For Mordrem You can hug the Mordrem wolf first if you think it looks alive. To me it looks like a dead dog that’s been corrupted by plants.

It has a skull. That’s the only thing ‘dead’ about it. It looks more like a bunch of corrupted plants formed around a single skull and shaped itself around that. Look at the rest of the body, and you will see that the only bones involved is the skull.

zerorogue.9410:

Mordrem Wolf: http://i.imgur.com/4VDMJpl.jpg http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/6/69/Mordrem_Wolf.jpg In both picture’s it is clear the head is a skull. You can even see a spine and bones in the first.

I don’t see a spine or non-skull bones. But even if you’re right, it’s plant matter that formed around a corpse – just like how Jormag has been known to corrupt corpses on occasion. This does not mean Mordremoth has taken Zhaitan’s power.

Case in point: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/images/3/38/Icebrood_Colossus.jpg You can see a skull, spine, and other bones within the ice.

Mordremoth is plant(similar to Melandru)

The Deep Sea Dragon is Water(similar to Abaddon and later Lyssa after she stole half of his power)

Primordus is Fire(similar to Balthazar)

Jormag is Ice(similar to Grenth who most likely got his Ice powers from his mother Dwayna rather than Dhuum)

According to the ingame book The Elder Dragons Zhaitan is Death(similar to Dhuum)

Kralkatorrik is Crystal with purple energies and might be tied to the Chaos Crystal Caverns which look like Branded Crystals(Lyssa has purple magic though not crystals last I heard….)

The only Magic I don’t see Elder Dragons embodying is Light…..

Could it be the center orb?…..

First let me thank you, Konig Des Todes. Your the first in the thread to give me a actual proper argument rather than saying “your wrong” or arguing with other conjecture.

Magic

My theory is that Magic-Dragons-Gods are all tied together.

Now then, Our concept of magic for Guild Wars has always been “wibbly wobbly”. There are many things that have been proven wrong and disputed in this field. My theory of this is that all the magic we have seen so far has been either a combination of one of these six or some sort of other energy that has been affecting it.

The six magic types I believe are (Fire,Life,Chaos,Nature,Water,Death) I tried looking for your types you mentioned but have not found anything on the topic. where did you read this? This is the base of magic. In essence The Chemical Elements to matter.

The orbs you see are the elder dragons, but the light they contain is magic. The light in the center is Tyria, and the light in there is the magic used on Tyria.

Apologizes for the dragon minion comment I said it wrong, I meant to say other dragon’s don’t corrupt other dragon minions. Thanks for the spot, I’ll correct it.

10,000 years ago
This is my theory on how the previous dragon attack happened. Not much evidence is known of that time. Additionally ley lines are a new discovery in guild wars so there’s no telling what has happened with them. What we do know is scarlet, under the control of Mordremoth, deliberately looked for a powerful source of magic ten channel it into the dragon. I believe this was the traditional way to wake up the dragons, although any large source of magic will do it. 10,000 years ago no races had magic(as it was given to the races by the gods at 1BE). So the ley lines was the only source.

Our Dragon attack
There are two confirmed great destroyers in history. The one we fought a second one fought hundreds of years before that. If there are two, a third is very possible. The theory on this is that the Elder Dragon’s can’t wake themselves directly, but need an “alarm clock” So They create champions to wake them.

Primordus’s wiki article refrences multiple Great Destroyers Also as far as I know the only Elder dragon awakenings that where witnessed by anyone where Kralkatorrik (by a char patrol watching the mountain come alive then corrupt them) and Mordremoth(by us during Battle for Lion’s arch)

Scarlet
You said scarlet went into the machine before zhaitan’s death, however I have yet see any concrete evidence either way. We did see scarlet in the Thaumanova fractal, however fractals are full of mistakes and errors as they are not the actual events but echo’s of them. We don’t know if scarlet was there or scarlet was in the fractal with us. She mentions “her work is done here” but she also was taking to us who where not even there.

As for her death, I did not know that passage in Ghost of Ascalon. That would explain the irregularities. So Scarlet is mulch. But now that cave with boat is going to bug me again XD . I’ll strike that from the first post.

Dragon explosion
Unfortunately, I don’t know what it said in Sea of Sorrows book. As far as i know we all we know is dragon’s seem to cause massive damage right after awakening. On the map you can clearly see a massive blast of corruption at glint’s lair.

My Theory is Mordremoth is in the string phase. He has limited control of his powers but has not awoken yet. Similar to Primordus during Eye of the north. This theory will be proven/disproven this season so only time will tell.

Links
white orb = Dwayna = Jormag = Life
red orb = Balthazar = Primordus = Fire
light green orb = Melandru = Mordremoth = Nature
purple orb = Lyssa = Kralkatorrik = Chaos
dark green orb = Grenth = Zhaitan = Death
blue orb= Kormir = bubbles = Water

These links are what was true in the beginning. due Abbadon meddling much of it gotten out of balance. (this is what I believe caused the dragons to rise, to fix the problem Abbadon caused)

If the black orb is zhaitan, why did not not disappear in the cutscene? There are two possibilities of this; either 1)zhaitan is not dead or 2)zhaitan’s orb is not black.

I didn’t think Elder Dragons discriminate when it comes to magic. Food is food and they consume it all equally. It’s not like Zhaitan was searching for tasty necromancers to snack on.

The risen corruption affects just those who were alive prior.

The splotch at Glint’s lair is caused by the battle and death of Glint. If you follow the brand from Glint’s lair back then you have the position Kralkatorric rose.

We have now a book that list a dragon rise 20k years ago and the informations about it was listed from the gods (maybe the six are longer in Tyria than known). Sadly we do not know what they wrote.

zerorogue.9410:

First let me thank you, Konig Des Todes. Your the first in the thread to give me a actual proper argument rather than saying “your wrong” or arguing with other conjecture.

Your thread piqued my interest. Which is more than what can be said for the others theories from the cinematic. But it also had a lot of flaws which really harmed it, so I felt the need to point those out and why they’re such, in hopes you improve your theory by explaining around them.

Magic

• Jormag is not life. More down below.
• I got the types of magic from multiple sources – aside from them being damage types of magical spells in GW1, we see “dark energy” and “light energy” mentioned by Scarlet Briar in the Prime Hologram fight (Prime was powered by light; Ultraviolet powered by dark). Chaos energy comes from Thaumanova & related. Dragon energy comes from the Thaumanova, CoE (story and exp) and SE (story). Elemental is just from elementalists not dealing with chaos, dark, or light. In GW1, the profession-to-magic-type was always Elementalist=Elemental; Necromancer=Dark (aka Unholy); Mesmer=Chaos; and Monk=Light (aka Holy).
• “I meant to say other dragon’s don’t corrupt other dragon minions.” This is also wrong (partially), as we can see in Crucible of Eternity. There are arguments that because it’s a lab it “doesn’t count” but there is zero implication for there to be no cross-dragon minion in the “wild”.

10,000 years ago

• We actually do not know that Scarlet was controlled by Mordremoth. It’s implied, and heavily suspected by the playerbase to the point where they accept it as fact, but it is in fact not proven.
• If channeling the ley lines to the Elder Dragon was the “traditional way” to wake up the Elder Dragons, then Drakkar would have done so instead of siphoning magic from the Sons of Svanir.
• The Six Gods returned magic to the races. They didn’t have magic because it was all in the Bloodstone or slowly leaking out of the Elder Dragons. During the previous rise, they had magic. But afterwards, they didn’t. Similarly, after the previous rise the ley lines would have been barren of magic since all magic in the world was either consumed or put into the Bloodstone. It is a cycle of repetition – magic is heavy in the world, dragons wake up and consume it and go back to sleep afterwards, where magic is non-existent in the world for a few centuries until it starts seeping out into the world from the Elder Dragons until it reaches that same heavy-in-the-world point again.

Our Dragon attack

• Per The Elder Dragons there were many Great Destroyers in the past – “Great Destroyer” seems to be a title for destroyer champions (much akin to “The Shatterer” and “Claw of Jormag” and “Eye of Zhaitan”). Only one’s known to have survived the previous dragon rise, however, to this point – and that’s the one that we fight in Eye of the North. The battle described in the Tome of Rubicon was during the previous dragon rise, as it was during that time that the Tome was written.
• We know that an Elder Dragon can wake by itself, as Kralkatorrik does. Glint was able to delay his rise, but pointed out that it was inevitable – if an Elder Dragon requires another, then it may be an eternal hunt if the required champion is reborn, but it would be possible to prevent its rise. The champions whom act as heralds (Drakkar, Great Destroyer, Glint) are merely a single champion that survived from the previous dragon rise and waits for the magic in the world to rise before hastening their dragon’s awakening – but they are not a requirement.
• Zhaitan’s rise was witnessed by Cobiah Marriner and it is shown ni Sea of Sorrows. It’s possible that The Maw or the risen Giganticus Lupicus (the latter confirmed to be from the previous rise, the former having had advanced activity just before his rise) acted as heralds, but there’s nothing conclusive on that.

-continued in next post-

Scarlet

• Ceara became Scarlet Briar after entering and exiting the machine – Fact. She was 16 or older when she became Scarlet Briar – Fact. She was Scarlet Briar when Thaumanova exploded – Fact. She was Scarlet Briar when she released the Steam Creatures into Lornar’s Pass – Fact. Thaumanova exploded and the Steam Creatures showed up in Lornar’s Pass before Zhaitan’s defeat, if not also before 1325 AE – Fact. This is all provided in the final instance of Gates of Maguuma via her holographic recordings.
• Scarlet was not in the fractal with us. She was there at the reactor’s explosion. This has been confirmed, and obvious with the Inquests’ dialogues. When we visited the Fractal, we were Inquest so the inhabitants thought of us as Inquests rather than invaders (this is the same with Urban Battlegrounds – this is why the charr/inquest are our allies). If she was talking to us – and not just to random outloud villian monologue-ing – then she saw us as Inquest. If she was there in person, she would have been changed into an asura like the players.

Dragon explosion

• You mean Edge of Destiny, not Sea of Sorrows. Basically, Kralkatorrik’s “blast of corruption” was nothing more than multiple passes over the area trying to corrupt Destiny’s Edge (and failing because plot protection). It wasn’t a single blast, but multiple passes no different than the rest of the Dragonbrand’s creation – which was an active decision to make minions while he hunted Glint down.
• Elder Dragons when asleep do no damage – even when merely stirring – directly. It’s done by a champion from the previous rise (Great Destroyer, Drakkar, etc.). Mordremoth thus far has no such case. Mordremoth may be unique by corrupting the Dream while asleep, but this is still theory. Primordus did damage only thanks to the existence of the Great Destroyer and did no damage in the 50-ish year gap between EotN and his actual awakening.

Links

• Dwayna is blue, not white. Jormag is ice, not life.
• Kralkatorrik is not chaos, aside from some mesmer-sharing animations there’s no real evidence of it. No, Chaos Crystal Cavern does not count because despite common belief, it is not akin to Branded crystals.
• Kormir is not water, she never was; she is knowledge, secrets, truth, order, and spirit. Lyssa took over water with Abaddon’s death. Furthermore, Kormir is either golden or white in her color schemes (more often golden/yellow though), and never blue.
• Even if you argue that this is what’s true in the beginning and Abaddon’s actions fuddled it, there was NEVER any “ice” and before Kormir there was never a “white god” – Abaddon was dark purple, Lyssa was (and is) light purple.
  • This is why the Dragon-to-God linking never works. It ONLY works for Balthazar/Primordus and Melandru/Mordremoth without some conudnrum.
• Furthermore, it should be noted that the Six Gods’ elemental ties appear to be fully by choice, and not what’s passed down. For example
  • Grenth was known as the prince of Ice and Sorrow before becoming a god; Dhuum had and has no ties to ice. Similar with Grenth being tied to Darkness, Justice, and Judgement – Dhuum was never those either.
  • Kormir never adopted water, she only adopted Knowledge (/Secrets/Truth) from Abaddon. Her ties to Order and Spirit are new and unique to her (though one can argue she borrowed them from Dwayna). Abaddon, on the other hand, was Knowledge, Wisdom, Water, and the Depths (as in ocean depths); he became Secrets after he himself was a secret.
• On the Black Orb: Possibility #3: his corruptive magic is being transfered to another

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Zhaitan’s rise was witnessed by Cobiah Marriner and it is shown ni Sea of Sorrows. It’s possible that The Maw or the risen Giganticus Lupicus (the latter confirmed to be from the previous rise, the former having had advanced activity just before his rise) acted as heralds, but there’s nothing conclusive on that.

Not that I don’t believe you, on the contrary, but where has it been confirmed to be from the previous rise? All I know (from the wiki, admittedly) is that it was reanimated post-rising of Zhaitan.

It was an interview with Jeff, Ree, and Scott done by GuildMag, and is linked on this article – the NPC article seems to be out of date, as that’s speculation from before said interview.