Guild Wars 2

Is her death part of the storyline no matter what path you choose or is it path oriented? and does the same hold true for everyone else?

I do not remember if she dies when you starve the beast, but I do not believe so. I think that was my choice and she survived. I do remember more recently playing through where you have to kill Kitah.

She’s not part of the path that cuts off the supply to the Mouth of Zhaitan, but she doesn’t appear at any point later either.

Her disappearance is one among many things that shows to me that all story options “take place” to some degree irregardless of your own actions. It’s just that you – and sometimes other NPCs – are not around for the actions (but enemies and other NPCs are – in this case, Hekja would be there, perhaps).

I don’t think it’s quite the same this time though, both processes are very different. In the cut off version the Mouth busts out of the mansion and attacks your group outside. In the other version she goes inside and scouts, which forces you to fight a whole bunch of undead plus Kitah then fight the mouth in the basement. I would agree with that sentiment normally, with like cutting off the source and attacking the “factory”, but in this situation it seems to be one or the other.

Some of the paths do seem like they, or something like them, may fail if you don’t follow that path, however – for instance, if you take the Priory-recommended path after Further Into Orr, then there’s an event that’s suggestive that the Vigil-recommended path failed and you end up having to rescue them as part of the Priory-recommended path (being deliberately obtuse here for spoilers – people who have played them should recognise what I’m talking about). It’s possible that that was simply another column, but both paths involve doing something at a particular location when I’d expect both could have been achieved by a single event. Thus, I suspect the arc following Further Into Orr is one where, at the very least, the other arcs do not meet with the same level of success as the one you participate in.

On the subject of the Mouth – it wouldn’t surprise me if Trahearne sent two teams. Whichever one you’re not on fails, so you end up having to do their job as well as your team’s assigned task (note that if you make the choice to intercept the supply, destroying the Mouth afterwards is not in your initial briefing).

@Narcemus: Not necessarily – while Snarl and Galina (sp?) were part of the one that joins you irregardless, there are others that’s part of only one side. If you were to remove yourself, Snarl, and Galina (sp?) from the scouting party, it wouldn’t be much to presume that the scouting party got wiped out, and with no incoming “food” the Mouth gets impatient and comes out.

While if you join the scouting party, the group taking out the supply route fails because of no artillery barrage from the ghostfire cannons.

If memory serves me correctly, Trahearne mentions that you could join either side, not that you and all other allies do only one way. TBH, I would be more surprised if Trahearne decided to only do one means of attack rather than two – in case one way fails, there’d be a backup plan.

Trahearne never says anything about sides or two simultaneous operations, only that the Commander has two options:

Trahearne: Yes, but there are two ways to attack it. We can strike at the Mouth in its lair, or we can prevent its food from being delivered. Either way, Zhaitan misses a meal.
PC: Is one method riskier than the other?
Trahearne: Stopping the Mouth’s food supply is safer, but less certain. Attacking it directly is more dangerous, but more certain…assuming it can be defeated.
PC: I can defeat it. Let’s attack the Mouth directly. (same as “I say we attack the Mouth directly.”)
PC: Fighting an unknown is too risky. Let’s interrupt the food supply. (same as “Let’s cut off the Mouth’s food supply.”)

The choice is entirely up to the PC, and the strike team is put together in respect of the specialist that is needed: Hekja and Priory scholars so they can provide intel on a historic place, or the Vigil demolitionist who sets up the ghostfire cannon.

While it is true Hekja doesn’t appear later on, it is not a sufficient proof of her death or that she died in a failed raid on the manse. She could have been called to another operation while we were killing the couriers and the Mouth.

@ Drax: it is highly unlikely that the pinned down tank column is the same as the one that we successfully escort through Malchor’s Leap. The PC in the super-uber-prototype armor is dropped into the middle of enemy territory (Cathedral of Zephyrs), and it is clearly held by the Risen and is intact (and there’s a Searing cauldron floating around). When we arrive with the Pale Reavers and the Gear warband, there ain’t no cauldron up there, and we pretty much burn down the whole place with the ghostfire artillery. Which means that the first part of the Priory offensive happens earlier than the Vigil one.

All the offensives are successful, in my opinion (further proved by the absence of the martyrs such as Arda, Tegwen, and Zotty, and the survival of Laranthir, Carys, and Elli). The Vigil annihilates a significant body of Zhaitan’s army near Caer Shadowfain, the stolen fleet under the Whispers’ control take the docks of Arah (Thorn Docks), and the Priory destroys the garrison at the Cathedral of Verdance. Thus, the order in which the offensives end is: Vigil -> Priory -> Whispers

The issue with saying that the Priory airdrop definitely came before the Vigil escort mission is that Laranthir’s strike force was then in charge of the Cathedral. For the Vigil escort mission to have come later, the occupation force for the Cathedral would have had to have abandoned it, and then the Risen would have had to have held it long enough to set up a giant-creation operation there.

It’s just as possible that the Priory mission came afterwards, with the Cauldron having been moved there from elsewhere in an effort to blow up the Pact’s supply lines. Or, they could have been simultaneous with only one succeeding, and the reason we don’t see the Cauldron there in the Vigil mission is because without the airdrop to secure it, the Cauldron was moved… or drained in order to create the Risen giants.

Regarding the naval assault – there’s not really anything to place it compared to the others. Yes, it penetrates more deeply into Zhaitan’s territory. This could simply be that it formed a beachhead behind enemy lines rather than being the final stage, however.

Regarding Hekja’s fate… Whatever happened, I’m pretty sure she’s now canonically deceased. The easiest explanation for ArenaNet is likely to say that her death was the same either way, the only difference was whether the PC was there to see it.

I retract what I said about Air Drop happening earlier: the Vigil tank column that was escorted by the Pale Reavers is long past the Cathedral, probably fighting Zhaitan’s forces near Caer Shadowfain, when the battlesuit is dropped on the risen who brought in the cauldron. Just like you said.

Laranthir of the Wild: Secure and ready to be deployed. Our offensive is stalled at the Cathedral of Verdence. I hope we can punch through the resistance.

And again, extremely unlikely it is the same column. The small detachment that is nowhere near the size of the one in the Vigil path is led by Magister Cuth, the main one by Ballista Geargrind and the Gear Warband. Carys and the Pale Reavers can be found later on, alive, Tegwen on the other hand, not. Laranthir also survives, meaning he was successful at securing the cauldron and setting it off against the cathedral, probably with more casualties than with the Commander, though.

Regarding Hekja’s fate… then it is sloppy writing and the betrayal of the concept of the Personal Storyline.

IDK if it is a betrayal of the personal storyline, being as your presence doesn’t save her. Alternatively I think that having too many people that are dead for one character and alive for another character would confuse the game a lot.

Actually, from memory the column in the cauldron arc is actually larger. The land invasion arc only involves three tanks, while the column you rescue, IIRC, had about half a dozen.

The offensive stalling at the Cathedral is, however, indicative that the land invasion occurs beforehand – the column that got trashed was probably reinforcements. Which makes sense, since the cauldron arc involves quite a bit more fiddling around than the land invasion arc, including having to return to Fort Trinity.

In the case of the two Mouth options, though – Trahearne gives you two options. You can cut off the supply (only), or you can beard the Mouth in its den. Either way, you get Snarl and Galina, but not the rest of the team. If you choose to cut off the supply (which, let’s face it, is a much easier option) your briefing does not suggest fighting the Mouth… and yet you end up doing it anyway.

Trahearne having sent a unit to do each is a logical move. Cutting off the supply obviously makes the Mouth easier to slay. Sending a unit into the Manse keeps the Mouth and its immediate forces occupied, allowing the interdiction force to do its thing without interference. Whichever team you’re not a part of fails, so if you go into the Manse you have to stop the servants from bringing more artifacts to the Mouth, while if you don’t, the Mouth comes out and challenges you.

Yes, some of the writing could have been better either way. But if Hekja turns out to have a canonically different fate – even if you took a different path – I’d be shocked. Partly, to be fair, because I honestly don’t expect Hekja to ever be referred to again except perhaps as a name on a roll of honour, but also because it’ll be a lot less complicated on ArenaNet’s part to have her die the same way either way regardless if they ever do.

Which would still result in the betrayal of the concept.

I doubt Trahearne would send in another unit without asking the Commander’s counsel first. The dialogue I linked above is very definite on what happens: either you play safe, risking to miss the grand catch, or you go full in, risking to get your arm (or head, or w/e) bitten off.

What is more: Pact Demolitionist Strixel does survive no matter what (the guy responsible for the ghostfire cannon and the perfectly placed mines), and can be found in Fort Trinity bantering with Barron and Ferro at the victory celebration (not sure which, but I guess the Zhaitan’s defeat one), and you can bet a 100 platinum coins that if Trahearne did send a group to deal with the Blight and the couriers, he would’ve been still on the sabotage team. So logically, there is no second team at that particular step (the same with the Go For the Eye decision).

Strixel’s survival meaning that group couldn’t have been sent and failed doesn’t necessarily follow. It’s quite possible that they may have made the attempt and failed, but did manage to get away rather than fighting to the death.

You are really stretching it now, you know. The risen were hell-bent on annihilating the sabotage crew. If they had been sent to sink the Blight without the Commander’s assistance, they would have been torn to shreds and made risen, including Strixel.

Not really. It’s possible to escape from the Risen, especially if they’re more interested in defending an objective than outright killing you, and a sabotage crew is going to have experience at pulling out when things get tough. This goes double when you consider that the Commander’s job was first to man the cannon, silly as this is when the Commander is probably the Pact’s best fighter.

More significantly, though, with Snarl and Galina with the Commander regardless, the sabotage crew could have taken a different tack rather then using a big cannon to sink the ship – possibly relying purely on mining the trail to slow down the delivery.

Excuses. Even if we agree that the failed sabotage crew could have survived, there is still the definite wording of the dialogue with Trahearne, and the unlikelihood of the Marshal doing something risky without the counsel of his most-trusted second-in-command.

The definite wording that implies that if you take the ‘stop the supply’ option there’d be no direct attack on the Mouth when… there is?

Either way, I have no interest in continuing this conversation with the way it’s currently going.

Well, the Mouth comes to you when you stop the supply – kind of – rather than having to be sought. He busts through the Kitah Manse front doors (apparently incapable of opening doors) because he’s hungry. And he shows to be a well versed talker in a cinematic.