Guild Wars 2

ok this will be a bit of a biased look at humanity in Tyria please if you have any thoughts or think the judgments are too harsh please give reasons and well talk it through (sorry this article also got a little off track on the seer they were my favorite race so sorry on the bias on that one lol)

In the beginning they are invaders from another world who bring with them their gods and embark on a crusade destroying or pushing out the native races of the continent, once most of the land is owned by them they start slaughtering each other with their full magical power king Doric has to step in and asks the gods to intervene, they break the bloodstone war stops. then the guild wars start a bloody conflict between smaller groups of guilds of the three countries of Ascalon, Orr, and Kryta. eventually this caused basically full scale war between the countries that weakened them to the native races they had kicked out of their homelands. So now the Charr are the first to act they first attack Ascalon the lands that used to belong to them, then Orr, and finally Kryta. the first rather than restore the land to its natural inhabitants kills the remainder of its people transforming them into ghosts to plague whoever tries to live in that land. The second destroys its entire county and sinks the landmass into the sea killing all inhabitants. The third turns to unknown/unseen gods who save them from the wrath of their enemies only to have chosen among them sacrificed for their false gods safety.

Then on top of all this the main remaining human nation Kryta gains hope of escaping the Mursaat and fighting against them with the shining blade, during this period there are two races that come to their aid, one the dwarves, and two the seer. first off I believe that the shining blade did pretty well in helping the dwarves, they both assisted each other in fighting off the others enemies. finally the seer the race that may have only helped the humans to seer the destruction of the mursaat but based on what we know of them from guild wars 2 Arah path I would guess they as a race are not so selfish/vengeful. the seer save the humans from an enemy too powerful to fight and give them the means to fight back as well as accompanying (they are in almost every mission after infusion) through their fight with the mursaat and even the titans, giving them valueable information like how to close the portals that are linking tyria and the foundry of failed creations, and what do the seer get for this the last time we see them there is a dead one lying on an Asura (hired by shining blade) lab table being experimented on? how could they not treat this ally better and are the seer extint now NOOOOOOOOOOOO :’(

@thread title: no single race is black or white (except maybe krait). There are good humans, and there are evil humans. On a whole, they’re gray-lined.

1) We still don’t know how the humans were when they arrived. Balthazar did push them to conquering others, but I wouldn’t blame humans for that as much as I would blame Balthazar – same way you’d blame Hitler before blaming all of Germany for WWII. Humans could have come to the world as refugees (my current thought), rather than as invaders. Most of their spread actually begins peaceful as far as we know (specifically, their spread into the Canthan and Elonian continents) – it’s only Kryta (possibly!) and Ascalon which were hostile colonizations – and the latter was against a militant and barbaric race that was warring with the Forgotten after conquering the land from whomever lived there beforehand.

2) It was more than just humans slaughtering each other when Abaddon gifted magic – it was other races too. Though depending on your source, some may say just humans or just non-humans.

3) As mentioned, charr were not natural inhabitants to Ascalon. Personally, given EoD and Catacombs of Kathandrax in GW1, I suspect that the dwarves lived there first – but that’s speculation. And you’re victimizing the charr, which isn’t at all accurate. The charr are just as bad as humans – if not worse – when it comes to warring activities (at least the humans have reasons, even if its just greed, to wage war – charr waged war within their own race for the sake of fighting).

4) It was actually the Ascalonians who did the assisting eachother. The Shining Blade were rescued by the Ascalonians helped by/helping the dwarves. Though the Shining Blade did help repay the dwarves when the Ascalonians did (during Thunderhead Keep mission).

5) The seers were already a nearly extinct race, and were long before humanity arrived on the world – humanity had no chance of helping them. Furthermore, we don’t know if the one seen during War in Kryta was dead, nor do we know if they’re extinct, nor do we know if the seer – should it have been dead – was killed for experimentation. Blaming humans for asuran actions or things they were incapable of doing is biased indeed.

Oh, and the seers didn’t tell anyone how to close portals – that was Prince Rurik. Stop taking away humans’ good sides!

I agree with many of the things you have said but there are some things I disagree with

1) I tried to specify only tyrian humans as in the title did not mean to include elonians or canthans, and as such yes they may have come as refugees but as of now there seems to be no concrete evidence to support this, rather we can see that they did come and they did conquer, if they were following the will of Balthazar, then we could compare it to the crusades, or if you call your enemies barbarians you could compare it to the invasion of Americas by Europeans.

2) I’m not sure I agree on this one either just based on charr saying the humans were gifted magic by their gods and that is why they lost, they could just be sore losers but it seems to be mostly a humans bloodstone war.

3) completely agree with this said it would be biased

4) this was more of a reference to how the dwarves shipped the humans get to the ring of fire ilse and how they helped storm the first beaches…even though they were massacred.

5) In most ways I would agree but the asua was hired by the shining blade at the time and second we already saw one race come back from near extinction (the naga).

6) “Unchecked, the Titans will rend Tyria asunder. Stopping the Lich is the only real way to defeat them. But there is more to this problem than you know.” “Among the Titan horde are their champions, the Armageddon Lords. If they are not stopped, these demons will surely bring an end to both man and beast. Most likely, the Lords will be the last ones through the portals that have been opened.” this is what the seer said so yes they did not tell them exactly how to close the portals though Rurik only clarified this, when he told the players how to kill the lich and exactly what it would do.

1) I would only compare the human conquest of Tyria to the Crusades if God himself had come down to earth and given the crusaders a war speech. Because Balthazar himself told them to go, do you think early humanity would refuse the will of a god?

2) I do not remember seeing any references outside of the charr that say the humans had power that the charr did not when taking over their lands. I personally prefer to believe that the charr are sore losers and are finding something to blame their failure on. In all reality, the charr loss to humanity was most likely caused by the in-fighting between the legions caused by the death of the Kahn Ur.

3) The dwarves only did this because they were already being massacred by the invasion force. It was best to give their greatest chance a head start to destroy their enemy before it returned. Remember the dwarves would have seen the mursaat wipe out the Seers, and would know that the mursaat would have no problem wiping out dwarves as well to keep themselves safe.

4) The naga returned from near extinction months after their defeat due to a resurrection ritual. It is obvious that by the time of prophecies that the seer did not have this ability, or they would have been thriving again long before. I personally believe that the seer was not dead on the table, but should it have been dead perhaps it just gave up and gave it’s body to a science that would lead to the final extinction of the mursaat. I mean surviving alone for a thousand or more years, and you would have little reason to live once your revenge was set in place either.

1. If referring to just continental Tyrian humans, then the first settlers (Orrians) met no resistence, since the land was belonging to the Six Gods before 205 BE (and before they arrived, it may have belonged to the Forgotten or just simply no one). And then, again, when they spread from Orr it was only Ascalon which we know that they created conflict with the charr. And I’m sorry, but no, it’s not comparable to either the crusades or the Europeans colonizing America – in neither case were the invading army (Crusaders/Europeans) ever taking land from a highly militaristic and expansionistic nation that has been warring with “allies” (I use the term loosely – this is in reference to the Forgotten) for who knows how long of a time. There really is no historical comparison, as far as I know, since it’s always the other way around.
2. You’re thinking of two different timeframes. Humans using magic gifted by the gods to win land is referring to the initial colonization of Ascalon – in 100 BE. Abaddon gifted magic to everyone, including charr, in 1 BE. So two different events.
3. (skipping your 3) Dwarven ships can’t go on water. They’re called “ice ships” for a reason – they’re used to “sail” on ice only, because the bottoms are flat and they wouldn’t really be good for sailing on water. They did help storm the beaches, but I fail to see how this ever really comes into play with your points, given how this was the dwarves not helping humans so much as fighting alongside against shared foes (it’d be helping humans if it didn’t matter to them, but it did).
4. The naga were never near extinction, technically. Yes, a lot of the Jade Sea naga died, but that’s far from the whole race. And even if the asura were “hired” by the Shining Blade, they were left to their own devices except for Livia’s supervising – and even then, they likely did things without the Shining Blade’s knowledge (and Livia’s not exactly the nicest gal out there anyways).
5. You do realize that you don’t even have to talk to the seer for the mission; all that seer did was give us more work since about 11 Armageddon Lords already made it through the portals (the bosses and the standard Armageddon Lords in the titan quests). We would have closed those portals leading elsewhere with or without the seer – just as you can.

@konig
1) I believe the Spanish vs the Aztecs is a near perfect example of this
2) k didn’t realize that thank you
3) sorry but even in the original post I agreed that humans were good allies with the dwarves.
4) in the factions manuscripts it says the naga were only a few dozen in number (admittedly probably a lot more then there are seer)
5) yes but he/she gives you a key piece of information in protecting the continent of tyria.

@Narcemus
1) first off the gods in guild wars don’t compare to the God of Christianity, Muslim, Judaism… maybe others but for these religions the god is all powerful all knowing and lives forever the human gods of tyria are not. second massacring people in the name of your religion should never be acceptable.

2) very possible

3) yes these are true but that doesn’t make their sacrifice any less meaningful

4) I suppose this was true but even with the ritual that the naga shaman preformed they had only 40 nagas in her group to start rebuilding their society with. Also we don’t know for sure how many seers remain, I would like to see them again but considering that they stood against the dragons while their former allies the mursaat ran away, and all we hear of their society is ruins I expect them to be extinct or even closer to extinction than they were in GW1

1) I disagree; mainly because what wiped out the Aztecs was less of the Spaniards seeking to push them off of their lands, and more of the diseases that they brought. The biological warfare (giving native americans blankets with small pox) didn’t happen until much later, when there was already conflict occurring. The Spaniards were exploring first, not colonizing.

3) Wrong. It’s the Ascalonians who were good allies, not humanity on a whole. Well, it could be humanity on a whole, but we don’t know – we only know they had an alliance with Ascalonians.

4) There’s three things to note here: 1) As Narcemus says, it was due to a resurrection spell and given the amount of time the Seers had, they could neither reproduce to re-create their race, nor resurrect them. 2) These naga were killed off by the Jade Wind; the Jade Wind did not reach Shing Jea Island or the other outer shores of Cantha, where naga still live. The manual, although not explicitly stating this, is only talking about the Jade Sea naga, who were encased in Jade. Which brings up point 3) they were killed by a very unique magic, the Jade Wind, where they were literally frozen in stone. As one can see by going through the Jade Sea in GW1, or by going through the Solid Oceanic Fractal in Fractals of the Mists, unlike the creatures killed above water by the Jade Wind, the creatures frozen in jade were not turned to stone. So they could still have been alive while stuck in that petrified water at first, allowing them to be saved (until they starved to death).

5) It (seers are genderless) only tells us to kill the leaders or else there’s trouble. That’s elementary information – kill the general, disorganize the army. It’s hardly revolutionary information. All it did was tell us where the Armageddon Lords would be… and it was wrong still.

1b) But Balthazar is physical. The Abrahamic god is not. It’s still very different and even if Balthazar isn’t all powerful or all knowing and all existing, he’s still capable of wiping an entire nation out with ease if he wanted to (upon arrival on the world, he swept all of Orr in flame, seemingly effortlessly). Narcemus’ point was that the Crusades aren’t comparable because the Abrahamic god didn’t step down from the heavens and walked among man telling them in a booming voice to go kill the Muslims.

4b) Regardless of however many seers remained, they had somewhere between 2,000 and 11,000 years to rebuild their civilization and race after the mursaat nearly caused genocide on them before fleeing to the Mists. Even if the naga returned thanks to a priestess, the seers did not and would not even if given 250 more years. Besides, as you said we don’t know how many seers lived on, even though we only knew of at least 1 in Prophecies (the one on the RoF islands was the same one in the Shiverpeak Mountains), so there could still be survivors beyond that one seer lying on the table possibly still alive.

Actualllyyyy… the background of the Crusades were that the Byzantines were being hard pressed by the expansion of the Islamic empire and the Turks that they were desperate enough to ask the Pope for help (considering that the Orthodox/Catholic split back then was like the Catholic/Protestant split, this was pretty significant). Undeniably, the Crusaders behaved abominably, including massacring civilian populations and at one point sacking the very allies they had supposedly come to help, but they actually had been sent to beat back a militaristic and expansionist nation that had been at war with an “allied” nation for centuries.

Coming back on topic… the OP certainly is a biased view. Some things to consider:

1) As mentioned above, the charr were no victims however much they might try to paint themselves as such. Grawl were the original inhabitants of Ascalon, and the charr had been fighting the Forgotten – known to be allies of the gods and thus, at one remove, to humans – for Balthazar knows how long. The comparison between the Spanish and the Aztecs might not actually be such a bad one… if you keep in mind that the Aztecs themselves were an expansionist empire that demanded a tribute of sacrifices from the people it conquered, and part of the reason for the Spanish success is that they rallied allies from some of those conquered people. Both are militaristic, but neither side can really be said to be the innocent victims in the conflict.

When it comes to the various magical disasters… it has to be remembered that the Cataclysm and the Foefire were acts of desparation conducted by single individuals of questionable sanity. The Searing, by contrast, was an offensive action conducted with the support of the entire charr population at the time.

And as noted, we don’t know if the seer body we saw in WiK was living or dead, voluntary or involuntary, or if Zinn and Blimm were simply studying a corpse they’d found somewhere.

Well, if I remember right the whole sacking the allies they came to help was done by the crusade that the Venetians hijacked. I’m pretty sure the Pope wasn’t happy with it. Nonetheless Konig was correct in saying what I was saying. In the public view (outside what history tells us) the crusades happened because god wanted christianity to own the holy land. He was comparing this to the Tyrian humans and their conquest which is not true. They had a massive freaking god tell them to go out and conquer, not an old man in a silly hat. I agree that the charr were no victims in the conflict. Even if the humans never left orr and moved to ascalon the charr would probably have gotten into conflict with them during their continual conquests.

@Narcemus
yes ok so they had a powerful person behind them motivating them possibly through force to annihilate anyone who stands in their way… so this absolves them from all the issues they may have caused through their conquests?

@draxynnic
1) this is one I’ve always been a bit confused about why were the forgotten allies of the human gods did they know of them before they reached tyria, and why did they support them the war(?) between the forgotten and the charr started before humans arrival if I understand correctly.

And to flip the switch the other way (not being sarcastic want to know your real opinions), what do you believe are some of the major things humans have done to advance life in tyria not just for their race but for others as well.

@Konig
ok maybe you will like this example better though I still prefer the Aztecs v Spaniards.
Inca v Pizarro (the Inca conquered and assimilated other tribes [little bit of militaristic qualification] when Pizarro came around it was only a bit after a civil war had finished between the sons of the previous sovereign emperor for the right of succession [warring with allies qualification] and finally that the final sovereign emperor Atahualpa was killed by his Spanish captors and a native Incan was appointed as leader by the Spanish I believe it was the brother Atahualpa fought the Incan civil war against but could be wrong. [taking property gold for ransom of Atahualpa as well as establishing a colony for Spain in southern Incan land I think]

No it doesn’t absolve them of past sins. I never said that. But would you blame modern christians for the crusades? Does this make modern day humans evil in Tyria? The past is full of evils on all sides, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find it within Asura and Norn history as well, should they have kept better records. There is no righteous war against all consuming empires of fully evil orcs in GW2, every group has evil, and every group has good. Whether or not anyone gained the land they have currently through moral means does not matter anymore, because the current generation did not commit any of these sins, they merely inherited the sins of the past and are having to try their best to move forwards.

I like your explanation very much but to be forgiven someone must turn form their past evils and if Balthazar is the cause of many such troubles should he really still be in the human pantheon… maybe abbadon was better?

But of course not all humans or any race are evil or good but the game looks at most races in shades of gray while it shows other groups like the centaurs in black and white, I took this approach and I believe I was wrong in this but still an interesting conversation

Nah, Abaddon was worse. It’s the goddesses that were the good ones. (Centaurs, incidentally, do have some shades of grey, although at present they’re appearing nearly universally as foes.)

In answer to your response to my post – It hasn’t been strictly stated, but there’s a lot of indication that the gods found (or were brought, by the Forgotten, to) the world at a time when its ecosystem was completely and utterly fubamred (lie ‘fubared’, but the ‘m’ stands for ‘mortal’) and it was the gods that restored the landscape to something capable of supporting civilisation. Allowing humans to settle was probably part of that bargain. What we do know for sure, rather than piecing together from what we can see of an incomplete puzzle, is that of the elder races in GW1 that hadn’t bugged out during the last awakening (the mursaat) the dwarves at least respect the Five (albeit focusing on the Great Dwarf) while Glint and the Forgotten are directly working for the gods.

On your second question… I’ll start by responding to it with a question in turn. What has any other race, playable or otherwise, done to benefit others? Charr and asura developed their technology primarily to benefit themselves – benefits to anyone else are an added bonus. The sylvari dedicate themselves to fighting the dragons, but that’s to their own benefit as much as to any other race – if that counts we can also count humans saving the world multiple times in Prophecies, and, depending on how you interpret the information in the Movement of the World, possibly keeping the charr curtailed and occupied long enough for the charr to have to put off conquering another set of neighbours (the norn) long enough for them to realise it was actually possible to make friends with non-charr.

In less militaristic terms – two of the three multiracial organisations (and the two oldest) in GW2 were founded by humans. While the Durmand Priory seems to have been largely taken over by asura in GW2 times, it’s because of humans that there is a coherent history of the world that stretches back to before the destruction of the underground asuran empire. The Order of Whispers, on the other hand, is the organisation most dedicated to making all the races work together as much as possible.

On that general note, humans have the distinction of being the first race that the sylvari had friendly contact with (after the disaster that was first contact with the asura). In general, while humans have warred with charr, centaurs and tengu, they’ve also been one of the races most inclined towards making friends – as well as the aforementioned sylvari first contact, humans had an alliance with the dwarves going back into ancient times (possibly going back to whatever agreement was made between the gods and the Forgotten), were responsible for first bringing asura and norn into contact during EOTN, and with the sylvari are the race most inclined towards extending the hand of friendship towards minor races such as the skritt and quaggan. There’s probably a reason why New Krytan became the lingua franca of Tyria – because at the time it did Lion’s Arch and Kryta were essentially already the cultural centre of Tyria, and most races then knew the human tongue but didn’t necessarily know each other’s.

To give a short response, though: Apart from the sylvari, while humans can be aggressive as well, they seem to be the race most inclined to form alliances with and fight to help other races. And they’ve been doing it for a lot longer than the sylvari have.

@drax: My knowledge on the subject isn’t that superior, given how long its been since I studied it, but wasn’t that the reason for one crusade – and there were four crusades in total?

Infamous Darkness.3284:

this is one I’ve always been a bit confused about why were the forgotten allies of the human gods did they know of them before they reached tyria, and why did they support them the war(?) between the forgotten and the charr started before humans arrival if I understand correctly.

It’s never really explained, however by piecing all the lore together, I suspect that the Forgotten were brought by the Six Gods during the ending reigns of the last Elder Dragon awakening where they then helped out the races by freeing Glint; I mainly say this because the original origin given to them – that they were brought by the gods in 1768 BE – has not been disproven yet, despite the mention of them being around during the last ED rise.

Though nothing really says the gods supported the forgotten in the war against the charr. Then again, we know very little about that war – we only know the location and that it was before 100 BE.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

And to flip the switch the other way (not being sarcastic want to know your real opinions), what do you believe are some of the major things humans have done to advance life in tyria not just for their race but for others as well.

Requesting magic to be reduced. Stopping Nightfall – and for that matter, stopping Abaddon’s plans to take over the world thrice in 3 years. Establishing the Durmand Priory. Stop the charr’s expansion (if the humans didn’t appear, the charr would have likely slaughtered the norn, dwarves, and jotun in the Shiverpeak Mountains (we’re outright told that the charr easily could have slaughtered the norn if they dedicated a single legion to the task, but they were per-occupied with humanity), then moved to attack centaurs as they spread west – humans taking Ascalon put a stop to the charr expansion, preventing that possibility).

That’s just to name a few that come to mind right away. And before you say that two of them were done by one person – so was the Cataclysm (influenced by an evil god) and the Foefire (influenced by insanity). So if one side counts, so does the other – and the positive side wasn’t influenced by other evil beings or by insanity.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Inca v Pizarro -snip rest-

I’m not knowledgable of the subject so I cannot comment on it.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

while it shows other groups like the centaurs in black and white

Personally, I take this as mostly just the game’s (read: ArenaNet’s) approach to explain why they’re not consolable – why we can’t just go and talk to them into understanding. In lore, they’re unlikely to be so hostile and those we hear talking are just the extremist while those 999,999,999,999,999 other mooks are the ones who could be talked out of it.

Its something I hate, not because it means we cannot join them in-game (as that’s the purpose of it), but because it paints every villainous group/race as the same kind of backstabbing, enslaving, would-kill-his-own-child kittens and greatly reduces their uniqueness. Take a male Separatist, make him a norn, give him blue, replace “Ascalon” with “Dragon” and bam, same thing. Take a Separatist, give him a horse body, replace “Ascalon” with “our lands” and bam, centaur. Rather dull.

Bandits and the Separatist Sympathizers are the only groups that I’ve ever seen be able to be talked out of going evil, or giving up the bad road for a better one. Nightmare Court, and Sons of Svanir are somehow corrupted and cannot be saved (according to dialogues). Renegades have commited treason and thus should just be put down in the eyes of the Legion. Centaurs, and Krait are left completely black, but they wouldn’t have to be this way. There can be really deeeeeeeep shades of grey without being black.

Sons of Svanir aren’t all corrupted. It’s a “corrupted over time” – most are still standard, though some get a little brainwashed and it’s only the higher ups who received Jormag’s “blessing” more often which are corrupted.

I would say that the centaurs are one such “really deep shade of gray without being black” – mainly given their reasons. Mechanically, they’re pitch black, but lorewise not so. The Tamini and Harathi are mostly being forced into servitude through fear and strength of the Modniir, who themselves are led by Ulgoth towards revenge against the norn and humans. With Ulgoth taken out of the picture, the alliance of the three tribes may falter, especially if the charr ever go about providing aid to Kryta.

Not to mention that the centaurs see sylvari as a “could be our allies, could be our enemies” it seems (mechanically the response is the same, but lorewise the centaurs may be more hesitant to attack sylvari adventurers) – given the sylvari lvl 28 whispers story. They also view the Risen (and perhaps by extension, icebrood and destroyers) as a threat, unlike other groups, so they could also be redeemed through an attack by an Elder Dragon.

I honestly hope to see the Centaurs redeemed, at the very least through the use of the Veldrunner tribe in Elona. I refuse to believe they have all been wiped out, and with Palawa Joko ruling I think they and the humans would be more likely to be allied against a greater threat than fighting each other because of past grudges. I truly hope that the Harathi and Tamini tribes eventually fear something else more than they fear the wrath of the Modniir. I wouldn’t expect them to become playable races, but it would be nice to see more centaurs like the one in LA that sees the fact that they accomplish more without war.

I know that the Krait are ArenaNet’s evil orcs, but I would love to see them be more of a deep shade of grey as well. I can see them being more like an Aztec type civilization that requires sacrifice for their religion. It does not mean that they are all evil, just that the ruling class pushes them with the threat of death should they not succeed. Being brainwashed by religion to believe that all that lives on land is evil. All they would need to break down as an “evil” race is a well placed doubt in the words of the religious leaders, whatever it may be.

I have to say I miss the days of Guild Wars 1 where you had White Mantle that defected to the side of the Crown when they heard what their order had done. Franklin and Karriya . Or a war between 3 Deep Grey factions that you needed to stop in order to save innocent lives (Winds of Change). Or a war between two clans, neither evil but both hating the other (Luxons and Kurzicks). Using Kournan villages in order to save the country from it’s military, and eventually accepting the help of it’s only remaining general to stop the atrocities. Allying with a Lich in order to keep a god from transforming the world. There was so much more intrigue to the game. The stories were so deep and intriguing, and I am finding some of that is kind of washed away.

Well we already have the krait as a deep shade of gray through the blog lore for them – they’re effectively brain washed Little Red Book style from a young age by their highly corrupted priesthood theocracy. Their evil is purely a case of nurture rather than nature – change the nurture, and you’ll get good guy kraits.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

@drax: My knowledge on the subject isn’t that superior, given how long its been since I studied it, but wasn’t that the reason for one crusade – and there were four crusades in total?

It was the trigger for the first crusade, and as tends to be the case with wars, one war begets the next.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Well we already have the krait as a deep shade of gray through the blog lore for them – they’re effectively brain washed Little Red Book style from a young age by their highly corrupted priesthood theocracy. Their evil is purely a case of nurture rather than nature – change the nurture, and you’ll get good guy kraits.

(holds up his “Krait for playable race!” sign)

Oh, something else I just got reminded of, although it’s another case of a single individual.

Planting the Pale Tree.

Well are Americans considered good today? I mean to me it looks like Humans background comes based off American history. Came to a new world, took land that didnt belong to us, fought each other(civil war), drop a nuke to stop a war (possibly bloodstone?), and maybe America helps with a few things aswell creating the U.N. as one as in Guild Wars Lore humans did do good things aswell like defeat the Mursaat, save Cantha from Shiro and the infected, and in the end kill Abbadon. So guess it’s up to the looker to base a whole group on things the new group have no control over and to look at their poor qualities or good ones.