Guild Wars 2

do u want to know why tyria is so messed up?well lets check the resent history of the tyria and see whos responsible for it:
reason number 1:humans invaded ascalon for land and power which is rightfully belongs to charrs,they almost took the region from charrs and made the city Stronghold of Ebonhawke in fields of ruin,but charrs were able to defeat humans with help of iron legion who invented war machines.BUT the human king was so crazy,he sacrificed his entire army by using forbiden magic and made them into ghosts(and caused them pain and sorrow for eternity) to keep fighting against charrs forever,non the less he killed many charrs even after his death.how civilised is that?
reason number 2:the human separatist:queen jennah accepted the truce between humans and charr,therefore end of long war between them and charrs agreed to let peacefull human to continue to live in ascalon in their city Ebonhawke despite the could burn it to the ground,(dont forget they won the war)BUT human separatist want to kill queen jennah and charrs both and take over ascalon again,they even attack Ebonhawke.
reason number 3:humans biggest mess:city of arah,biggest and most glories city of humans which invaded by charrs(but it was humans who started the war and lost the war,not charrs fault)BUT the humans Vizier Khilbron used the forbidden scrolls to defeat charrs, that caused The Cataclysm, which sunk Orr.which of course led to awaken of the elder dragon zhaitan and put the entire tyria in grave danger.
now whos the trouble maker?

i also should add this non of the races other than humans of course,invaded others and used forbidden magic.
norn: they flee from north, their homeland which is ruined buy jormag,dragon of ice,despite having many problems of their own,they help tyria with its problems,they have got local issue of sons of svanir who are fools that worship jormag,by far less dangerous in compare with other badies.
asura: ,they also got the local issue of inquest who are the potential danget to tyria but during the game we will see their main lab got destroyed and they have been weakened greatly.
sylvari:kind and peacefull race,they got local issue of nightmare court that tries to corrupt the pale tree they are mostly problem for sylvari rather than tyria.
charrs: intelligent and strong,well they defended their land against humans and their flame legion issue is a local issue as well,wich will be defeated during the game story.
BUT humans read my first post.

Adj. 1. civilised – having a high state of culture and development both social and technological

In terms of social culture I’d rate the Norn lowest, as they barely have a society at all. They are mostly nomadic individual, with the only semblance of societal structure being Hoelbrak.
Technologically they’re probably down there as well, relying mostly on their physical strength in combat and their prowess to survive in the wilderness.

Your examples both stem from a time of war, and war is a time in which all civilisation is thrown out the window and replaced by the fight for survival.

Stirring trouble is no sign of absence of civilisation. I think you got your terminology mixed up there

I’d dispute you on your first point, saye. Humans drove the charr out of Ascalon 1500 years ago. You can hardly count that against their current level of civility. By real-life comparison, the the western countries that we call civilized today were murdering and displacing indigenous populations in large numbers within the last couple centuries. Also, the charr had been displacing and killing other races since before the humans arrived- the humans were just the first race that won against them.

Furthermore, during the wars between them, the worst thing the humans did was slaughter the charr like animals. The charr not only did the same to humans, they also enslaved humans to work them to death, ate humans, and burned humans alive.

And for 3, you can’t point to one individual and say that it reflects on the society on a whole. And Zhaitan didn’t wake up because of the Sinking of Orr- he did it 150 years later, and would have woke then even if Orr hadn’t sunk.

If you use “aggression towards other races” as a measure of how uncivilized a race is, which is what you seem to be doing, the charr come out ahead in a landslide. They’ve waged war with each and every race they’ve ever shared a border with, whereas the humans have grown out of that in the last 200 years.

As NinjaChris stated, the word “civilized” actually has little to do with a society’s aggression towards others. To be a civlization, though it varies from person to person, expert to expert, typically means having three of the following: structures, written language, religion, art, government, and/or societal structure (castes, nobility/commoner, etc. the thing that separates people based on either deeds, social standing, or monetary gains among others).

In this, humans are perhaps the most civilized, as they have all of the above. And like Aaron said, while humans are one of the more aggressive races (all their wars seem to last for centuries and are easily re-ignighted – be they Guild Wars, Great Corsair Wars, Luxon/Kurzick war, Tengu Wars, kicking centaurs out of Kryta, or Ascalon/Charr war)), they are not the most aggressive either, as they’ve made peace with races far sooner than the charr, whom only make peace with enemies they cannot kill easily (norn and now humans).

Though it is understandable how you’d get terms mixed up – in recent years people have been using “civilized” to mean the same as “non-aggressive” (passive?). In a similar route that “cruel” is seldom used for its actual definition – to let out blood – and instead is used to define something that is mean or hurtful.

saye.9304:

i also should add this non of the races other than humans of course,invaded others and used forbidden magic.

Remember, remember, the year of 1070, the day Ascalon burned. I know of no reason why the Searing should ever be forgot.

(Yeah, I know it rhymes not but hey :P).

Being civilized have nothing to do with being aggressive. In fact the more civilized you are, the more likely you are going to win against your foes.

Egypt – very civilized. Attacked the people around them.
Persians – very civilized. Attacked the people around them.
China – very civilized. Attacked the people around them.
Roman – very civilized. Attacked the people around them.
Britain – very civilized. Attacked all underdeveloped races in the world.

Remember, remember, the year 1070 as the ember, the Charrcauldron, fire and plot. For Ascalon knows of no reason, why the Charrcauldron’s fire should ever be forgot.

I can’t do this either :/

BUT human separatist want to kill queen jennah and charrs both and take over ascalon again,they even attack Ebonhawke.

Uhm… you do know that the Renegades are Charr who act just like the Separatists, right?

This thread needs to be removed. seriously.

I’m so sick of this mentality. Suddenly the human race is the badguy of pretty much everything.

As if the other races are any better.

No race is perfect in the GW2 universe. Even the sylvari that seem to be all noble and stuff at first glance have their darker side …and that’s without even falling into Nightmare.

I have to say that Ascalon was neither charr or human.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ascalon “The land known as Ascalon was originally claimed by the charr sometime before 100 BE”

The original inhabitants of ascalon are unknown, but are suspected to be Seers, Forgotten or grawl. But, in my opinion, the extint gargoyles have something to say about that.

And when the humans founded Ascalon, the Charr where very primitive, we do not know if they even have a name for those lands, because the charr calls his kingdom by the human name (Ascalon). There where no options for a truce or dialogue in those times.

There is 0 evidence to claim that the seers or Forgotten had settled in Ascalon. It’s known that grawl are indigenous to the land though, but the only civilized race (as the grawl would have been even more primitive than they are now well over a thousand years ago) to hold any potential of having had a presence was in fact the dwarves – but only via the Catacombs of Kathandrax in what’s now called the Blood Legion Homelands – a land conquered on the charr’s route to Ascalon originally (they began east of the Blazeridge, went north, then west until the Shiverpeaks into modern Blood Legion Homelands, then back south into modern Ascalon – at least based on the short description in The Ecology of the Charr : “No longer clamoring over the same territories, the unified Charr spread throughout the northern reaches of their homeland, and down into the lands east of the Shiverpeak Mountains.” ). The Catacombs of Kathandrax was a tomb of an ancient dwarven hero, Kathandrax Steelsoul, who had repelled the charr multiple times. This likely refers to the charr’s initial invasions, given how far east the catacombs are. Even if the charr respected Kathandrax as it’s said, I doubt they’d bury him in deep catacombs. Then finally there’s the existence of known charr lands east of the Blazeridge, owned by the Blood Legion as it is where the Blood Citadel resides as told in The Legions of the Charr. (“East, across the Blazeridge Mountains, Imperator Bangar Ruinbringer controls the lands of the Blood Legion.”)

Well, there is a smidgeon of evidence for the Forgotten, in that they were fighting the charr over the Blazeridges and that might have been triggered by the Forgotten being displaced by charr expansion… but it’s not very strong.

Grawl, however, are specifically mentioned as having been originally natives of Ascalon and having been dispossessed by the charr (not that the human Ascalonians treated them any better). There’s also that dwarven village in Edge of Destiny, although it’s not entirely clear whether that’s in Ascalon proper or the border region with the Shiverpeaks.

(For that matter, how the frell WERE caravans getting from Kryta to Ebonhawke while the gate was down? Everything else we’ve seen and been told, in both games, indicates that there was no direct passable route between Ascalon proper and what is now Deldrimor Front.

It’s possible that what’s happened is that EoD was set during a warmer part of the year than Prophecies, or that the warming of the southern Shiverpeaks opened up a route that was impassable during the time of GW1…)

I think you mean “border region with the Blazeridge” – wasn’t it to the northeast of Ebonhawke, near ogre lands, that Logan, Rytlock, and Caithe fell down? Besides that’s underground so it wouldn’t need to be near the Shiverpeaks to be recent (which it certainly seemed to be).

As to how caravans were getting there – I thought it was said they were going through northern Ascalon heading south (a very dangerous but no-other-options act)? Or am I remembering a line from Ghosts of Ascalon…

I think the northern-then-heading-south route was the one taken by Dougal and his original unit the first time they went treasure-hunting into Ascalon City.

Which I thought they took because it was a caravan route (at the time). Maybe I should just look it up, but eh.