Guild Wars 2

i think there could be more then 6 dragons cuz we live in tyria and we know whats going on only in tyria beacouse we lost connection to cantha and elona, we dont know whats going on there, and all 6 dragons are awaken in tyria which is a small place primodus zhaiten jormag kralkatorrik mordremoth bubbles all in 1 map and the entire gw map is alot bigger, we asumed there are only 6 cuz we dont know what other places have

Well, kinda. We assume there’s six because that’s what the surviving records of the last rise say. There might be other dragons, because you are right, it seems suspect that they’re in such a relatively small area. Remember also, though, that at the end of the last rise all of the magic that the dragons feed on was contained in an artifact on Tyria, so the dragons may well have been closing in and concentrating themselves in this area when they fell into slumber.

Kind of an old topic (I blame the poor search function on this forum), but for the most part, what Aaron said.

We only know of six because that’s what jotun and dwarven records amount to (mainly jotun, dwarven records to our knowledge only account 3 dragons: Jormag, Zhaitan, and Primordus).

It should also be noted that only Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik have history with Tyria during the majority of the previous cycle – and Jormag’s not even all that close to Tyria when he woke (he wasn’t in Tyria but the arctic sea, or between the two). There’s some implications that Kralkatorrik’s old reign was over Orr, the Crystal Sea/Desert, and Ascalon/Blood Legion Homelands, and Zhaitan may have only moved in near the end. Mordremoth has no historical records whatsoever, nor does the deep sea dragon who’s existence we only know about due to the quaggan, krait, hylek (indirectly), largos, and karka. So those two may have held no influence on Tyria in the past at all.

So in addition to the Zombie, Lava, Jungle, Crystal, Ice and Water Elder Dragons we could have other types as well including possibly:

Earth

Forest(Dragon Moss and Undergrowth may hint at such a Dragon)

Flower(Dragon Lily may hint at such a Dragon)

Star(most unlikely yet who knows)

Jade(if Shiro’s Jade Wind can even corrupt much less reach a Water Elder Dragon under the Jade Sea which most doubt)

Fire(not to be mistaken for Primordus’s Lava nature)

Disease(corruption looks similar to Shiro’s Afflicted yet comes from an Elder Dragon not Shiro)

Wind

And Sand

Forest, Flower, and Jungle are more or less the same thing. Do note that Mordremoth’s only called the Jungle Dragon because of its location (like calling Kralkatorrik the desert dragon, the deep sea dragon, or Zhaitan being called the Orrian Dragon). Jeff Grubb once mentioned the attributes of the Elder Dragons listing “fire, water, vegetation, elements and more” – Mordremoth would be the vegetation there (and “elements” would likely be Kralkatorrik since we got crystal/sand, lightning, and fire with him all in one go).

Primordus is fire, not lava. He also has lava, because lava is basically liquid fire. He’s also called the “Rock Dragon” – thus Earth is fitted into three dragons in various forms (Mordremoth, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus – soil, crystal, and rock).

Sand would also be Kralkatorrik, as he himself turns into a sandstorm.

And Zhaitan deals with disease too, he isn’t a “Zombie Dragon” but rather the Elder Dragon of death, undeath, and decay – and disease falls to his capabilities too, as seen in certain open world events.

The Elder Dragons are not very specific, but rather general in their elemental themes. So trying to split things between “Jungle, Forest, and Flower” or “Fire and Lava” or “Crystal, Earth, and Sand” is rather silly, since such division gets all covered by a single (or multiple) dragons.

well you could have a
-darkness/shadow dragon
-light/star dragon

There is a fairly popular idea that there might be a Celestial Elder Dragon somewhere about Cantha, but I’ll let the proponents of that theory do it justice if they choose.

I would like a darkness dragon, but I’m not sure how much of a niche there is for it. All of the other dragons each have their own ‘dark’ aspect blended in with their given elements, so a dark dragon would be somewhat redundant. And besides, any such minions would need something to distinguish them from nightmares, which could be difficult.

Personally, while we’re just throwing out possibilities, I would most want a storm/lightning dragon. Kralkatorrik touches on such things, but mostly as an afterthought, and what aspect of nature lends itself better to an awe inspiring force of destruction than lightning?

Mordremoth may have earth-based aspects as well as plant aspects, given that the attack from which we get its name is earth based. We don’t actually know that it is plant based at all. It’s in the Jungle, but that’s fairly thin evidence.

One active dragon. Zhaitan
Two incarcarated Dragons, jormag and primordius.
One preoccupied dragon kralkatorrik.
One slowly getting up rather annoyed by a drill of an alarm clock.
And lastly a dragon whom no one really seems to know what theyre doing. Just swimming north of cantha. Causing Storms, not doing much else.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

There is a fairly popular idea that there might be a Celestial Elder Dragon somewhere about Cantha, but I’ll let the proponents of that theory do it justice if they choose.

I would like a darkness dragon, but I’m not sure how much of a niche there is for it. All of the other dragons each have their own ‘dark’ aspect blended in with their given elements, so a dark dragon would be somewhat redundant. And besides, any such minions would need something to distinguish them from nightmares, which could be difficult.

Personally, while we’re just throwing out possibilities, I would most want a storm/lightning dragon. Kralkatorrik touches on such things, but mostly as an afterthought, and what aspect of nature lends itself better to an awe inspiring force of destruction than lightning?

I don’t know why there couldn’t be other dragons. The portion of the world we know (Tyria, Elona, and Cantha) hardly encompasses the entire planet. Though admittedly, I am no expert on dragon lore, it is obvious that Cantha was aware of them. Kuunavang is a dragon of sorts. At least that is what the wiki classifies him as. I know he isn’t like Zaihtan or the other bigs, but neither was Glint. So why couldn’t there be other dragons in other places?

The dragons of Cantha are NOT Elder Dragons. Dragon != Elder Dragon. Nor is there confirmation that there’s any correlation between the Canthan dragons and Elder Dragons. Though there are hints to Kuunavang being a dragon champion like Glint, but these hints are far and few in-between, and don’t hold much weight due to the abstractness of the comments.

Also, Kuunavang is a she. :P

@Ayakaru: Zhaitan is dead/defeated. Jormag and Primordus are not “incarcarated” but are fully active (one’s being held off by the dwarves, the other is held off by nothing but basic resistances). Kralkatorrik isn’t really “pre-occupied”, and is active just not as active as the others. And the DSD is also active, as evident by its kicking out the quaggan, krait, and possibly largos and karka out of their homelands. Land-dwelling Tyrians just don’t know much, but the aquatic races (which don’t share much on the topic – or anything at all for most of them) do.

I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.

Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.

I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.

I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.

What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.

We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kind of an old topic (I blame the poor search function on this forum), but for the most part, what Aaron said.

We only know of six because that’s what jotun and dwarven records amount to (mainly jotun, dwarven records to our knowledge only account 3 dragons: Jormag, Zhaitan, and Primordus).

It should also be noted that only Jormag, Primordus, and Kralkatorrik have history with Tyria during the majority of the previous cycle – and Jormag’s not even all that close to Tyria when he woke (he wasn’t in Tyria but the arctic sea, or between the two). There’s some implications that Kralkatorrik’s old reign was over Orr, the Crystal Sea/Desert, and Ascalon/Blood Legion Homelands, and Zhaitan may have only moved in near the end. Mordremoth has no historical records whatsoever, nor does the deep sea dragon who’s existence we only know about due to the quaggan, krait, hylek (indirectly), largos, and karka. So those two may have held no influence on Tyria in the past at all.

Actually, there are records about six dragons. In the Priory you can find a charr scholar (Who is also in the Order of Whispers) who mentions “Five races against six dragons.”

And that’s dialogue before Zhaitan was defeated.

jheryn.8390:

I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.

Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.

I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.

I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.

What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.

We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.

I think the Canthans are aware of the existence of the dragons:

out of ‘winds of change’ in the Durmand priory base in DR: “They’ve closed their shores to us and left us to fight the dragons alone. To the Mists with them.”

It would indeed be weird if the elder dragons would only be active in Tyria, which is actually a small piece of land if you compare it to the rest of the world.

Eh, Cantha IIRC cut off contact before Zhaitan rose.

Cantha became more isolated before Zhaitan rose. But there was still some limited contact with them.

Now there is no contact at all, that entire continent could have sunk into the sea years ago and we would never know. Now Zhaitan is death, we probably could re establish contact with them.

Though that probably won’t happen since Anet is rather anti-asian with guild wars 2, even going as far as removing something as insignificant and harmless as the cantha district in Divinity’s Reach.

Actually… according to wiki.

At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.³

Kalavier.1097:

Actually… according to wiki.

At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.³

Yeah that’s the official story. I just don’t buy it. Why should anet care when people in China and Korea complain about a small and harmless asian styled district. There have been plenty of complaints about real problems that Anet has ignored, why listen to this one?

Wether they like it or not, Cantha is part of the world and lore. If the people in China and Korea don’t like it then that’s too bad, buy another game.

Kalavier.1097:

since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design.

That’s a really nice way of saying ‘Asians don’t like variety’.
And why is the feedback from those markets more important than our feedback anyway..

And Cantha, in the lore, cut itself off. There are a few very obviously (in dialogue or appearance) Canthan humans ingame.

Unlike Elonia which was conquered, Cantha shut it’s own walls. There is likely to be fewer Canthans around then Krytans or Ascalonians.

Canthans became isolationists, in the same way Korea does it. But there’s still contact with Korea, we know it’s there and we know (if not in a limited way) whats going on there.

The only reason we were completely cut off from cantha is because of Zhaitan.

From the wiki:
The rise of Zhaitan had further cut off Cantha when his risen fleet took control of the Strait of Malchor. The only proof that Cantha still exists are sporadic sailors washing ashore on the Tarnished Coast.

When Zhaitan caused Orr to rise and spread its naval army, any ship attempting to sail in nearby seas were sunk. This caused Cantha to be completely and fully isolated, and all refugees – including the Xunlai Guild – had heard nothing of their homeland.

Both bolded parts show that Cantha wasn’t completely cut off before Zhaitan’s rise.

Korea is a country that depends on foreign assistance, is separated from its neighbors by a river, and exists in the information age. That is in no way comparable to Cantha, which has cut ties with foreign powers, is separated by an ocean, and exists in an age where remote contact is via messenger raven.

Skipping the lecture on quoting the wiki, we have conflicting statements in-game about rather Cantha cut off contact entirely under Usoku or was cut off by Zhaitan. The most recent statement on the matter (SoS) suggests the later, but it’s by no means as clear-cut as you say.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

but it’s by no means as clear-cut as you say.

Saying Cantha cut off contact entirely before Zhaitan’s rise isn’t as ‘clear cut’ either.

And Usoku went Isolationist, and it says that anybody who didn’t agree with him was basically kicked out.

So regardless if Zhaitan “FULLY cut off” communications between Kryta and Cantha, there was very little information or trade going anyway.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Aaron Ansari.1604:

but it’s by no means as clear-cut as you say.

Saying Cantha cut off contact entirely before Zhaitan’s rise isn’t as ‘clear cut’ either.

My understanding is that they’d adopted a more isolationist approach, but still traded with Kryta at least (the Indomitable, the ship that Cobiah Marriner got his start on, was en route to Cantha when they were diverted to hunt the Maw. That’s when the Rising of Orr happened).

There are only 6 elder dragons, however dragons do exist beside that, such as some elder dragon’s champions, or you can see multiple dragons in the sky in areas like Orr.

jheryn.8390:

I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.

Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.

I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.

I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.

What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.

We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.

You said “Though admittedly, I am no expert on dragon lore, it is obvious that Cantha was aware of them.” and this is what I was countering – it is not obvious that they’re aware of Elder Dragons, certainly not because of Kuunavang.

But now you say we don’t know if Cantha is aware.

Kalavier.1097:

Actually, there are records about six dragons. In the Priory you can find a charr scholar (Who is also in the Order of Whispers) who mentions “Five races against six dragons.”

And that’s dialogue before Zhaitan was defeated.

If you read my post in its entirity, you would have seen me state – and I quote myself – “We only know of six because that’s what jotun and dwarven records amount to (mainly jotun, dwarven records to our knowledge only account 3 dragons: Jormag, Zhaitan, and Primordus).”

The Priory only knows due to the jotun and dwarven records I state. The charr you mentioned – Scholar Trueclaw – and the other nearby scholars with dialogue on the Elder Dragons explain that they know only due to the jotun and dwarven records (which are old, sometimes rewritten, and thus outright stated to be potentially fallible).

wouw.5837:

I think the Canthans are aware of the existence of the dragons:

out of ‘winds of change’ in the Durmand priory base in DR: “They’ve closed their shores to us and left us to fight the dragons alone. To the Mists with them.”

That was written by a Tyrian who basically vandalized a library book. It is of non-decernable and thus untrusthworthy source and doesn’t state that the Canthans knew of Elder Dragons.

Kalavier.1097:

Eh, Cantha IIRC cut off contact before Zhaitan rose.

Cantha isolated itself but kept trade until Zhaitan’s rise – per Sea of Sorrows, as Cobiah had been on Cantha via royal trading. Jormag had been awake by about 50 years, and was the first Elder Dragon known to the common Tyrian (Primordus may have been awake roughly 50 years longer, but his influence was highly isolated to the dwarves, so few knew of him immediately).

Cantha may have known but only of Jormag and via word of mouth – unless the orders expanded into Cantha and brought knowledge of Primordus with them too.

They may know of the deep sea dragon, depending on its location.

Not touching the asian-community-view thing even with a 10 foot pole.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I may have misread it as being “The records only talk about Jormag, Zhaitan, and Primordus and has no information or mention of any others.”

As in DSD and Jungle dragon were completely unknown (even to exist as Elder dragons number 5 and 6) and all.

There I meant only those three are named by player-known dwarven records (those names come from dwarven legends, Kralk’s name comes from Glint, Mordremoth’s name comes from outside in-game lore). To our knowledge, jotun records – which is where we get the number 6 from – does not name any dragon.

Yeah. misunderstanding. My bad.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

jheryn.8390:

I know that Kuunavang is not an elder dragon. Didn’t say that he was. That is why I said that I knew that she is not a dragon like Zaitahan.

Also, I knew Kuunavang is a she, I don’t know why I wrote ‘he’ and ‘him’. Stupid mistake.

I also know that all the dragons of Cantha are not elder dragons, I think that is obvious. Just like I think it is obvious that Glint was not an elder dragon. Because I felt that it was obvious, I didn’t think I need to state it.

I also have seen those comments that state that Kuunavang may have been a dragon champion, but as you said, the comments were not very solid so I didn’t mention it.

What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.

We don’t know if Cantha is aware of Elder Dragons now or not. I am certain they know that something big is up now that waterways have been cut off between Tyria and Cantha. Perhaps they even were made aware of Zaihtan’s rise before communication was severed. I don’t know. No one does. But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.

You said “Though admittedly, I am no expert on dragon lore, it is obvious that Cantha was aware of them.” and this is what I was countering – it is not obvious that they’re aware of Elder Dragons, certainly not because of Kuunavang.

But now you say we don’t know if Cantha is aware.

If you read my post in its entirity, you would have seen me state – and I quote myself – “What I meant by my comment was that Canthan’s are aware of Dragon’s existence. Not elder dragons perhaps, but dragons of the Glint/Kuunavang variety.”

And then I did, in fact, say that we don’t know if Cantha was aware of elder dragons.

I then further explained my ’Canthan’s being aware’ statement by saying, and I quote myself again, “But Cantha was well aware of dragons’ existence even if it was dragon’s of the lesser variety.”

Nowhere did I say that it was obvious that Cantha was aware of Elder Dragons. Not in my first or second post. I am sorry if you misread it to mean that, but I did explain myself and did not contradict myself.