Guild Wars 2

While the format, of ‘unlocking’ and repeatability for achievements, has done a lot for the amount of urgency and stress related with the LS. I still feel that the LS could and should be so much more than it is now…

Now I know it’s a learning process, and that the method of delivery has changed a lot in regards to season 1 & 2. I still feel that the amount of time spend to polish these stories is just to short. In this regard I am not talking about vine events attracting a fair amount of aphids (who could have guessed). No, I am talking about the little things that feel like they are shoved under the carpet, the part where the story makes a ‘living world’ … as apposed to a ‘perpetuating story’.

And even in regards to the story it can be mentioned that some parts feel rushed. Not even so much in the implementation, but also in the preparation. And how palatable a story is, is (for me at least) directly related to how believable it is. And believable has only little to do with realism! For this I will have to elaborate a little bit:

- See the DryTop place and story felt really good, a lot of planning has obviously went into this. Only criticism I basically read was, where is the urgency with big monsters (by somebody obviously hooked on urgency stress). And, the whole place feels rather ‘linear gated’ due to the layout’, which is just a feature that comes with a canyon system, actually it’s what makes a canyon system differ from an open desert…

- Then cue Part 3, and then mostly convincing these leaders. (using just the Norn) It felt hardly believable that a Norn Leader would come to the summit after destroying one base. Why only one base? There are various places where we could hit the Sons of Svanir, why not use them? A simple list of events to complete would have made it much more believable that we actually dealt a blow to the Svanir. In all honesty I personally ‘ran’ all the way from Hoelbrak to that camp and I culled every Svanir in sight (shouting death to the Svanir in my head – as shouting it for real could wake up people and raise some eyebrows)

OR, for the whole Crown thing, why not send us to Orr to find some piece of text, which Rytlock knows is there but hasn’t been able to get his hands on due to the large amount of Risen still in the area. Which could have been a nice moment to ‘cue’ again that even though Zhaitan has been defeated his corruption still lingers. Well I guess you get the picture..

These things all have to do with the preparation time available, and obviously the implementation time. How can you give your players the most bang for their time by using as much existing (repurposed) content as possible, with the intent to make the story as well as the world as believable as possible…

More time would obviously also give more implementation of the little things I started with. The impact on the world, the part where the story makes the world a living one, because that is not just about the scars it leaves, it’s about the little things. Changing dialog here and there, a Mordi Vine attack in some place we are not ‘led to’ by the story, or even some event with them… How does the story we go through have an effect on the ‘day to day’ world!

Anyways, 2 weeks somehow feels to short, and if part 3 is any tell on what the amount of time available can do to the LS, then I would argue that 3 weeks or even ‘when its done’ sounds like a better way to get the quality up.

I would also like to add that it could give some more peace of mind on Anet’s side, 2 weeks to produce a lot of content, and surely at the end you yourself should realise that ’it’s never enough’. To then have the community pick apart every bit and put a big pile of salt on every snail in every corner. It sounds like something from a burn-out horror story…

Now sure, there have to be delivery moments, dead lines, and all that sass. But trying to build Rome in 2 weeks. Sounds more like a way to set yourself up for failure, which isn’t at all a good way to build confidence and gather inspiration and motivation to keep it up…

Why also stick with these 2 weeks, especially for the little things, if something makes sense is done, why not put it in. I mean, those vines growing were a really nice thing! As well as the books. They weren’t on some 2 week schedule… surely by now, after 2 attacks on Priory Shipments, there should be some buzz going on there… it doesn’t have to be much, it doesn’t even have to be pointed at in the LS (directly if it’s not needed right now, it might become a good angle to add something to as the story progresses).

A simple 2 people dialog with a voice acting:
a) What do we do about our transports now that they are under attack?
b) Well does two make a pattern?

Cue some text:
PC – what is going on?
a) – well I think we should consider changing our transport roster.
PC – Why is that?
a) – The continued attacks by these vines.
PC – so why not do it?
a) – ‘X’ here thinks it’s to early to speak of a pattern of attack.
PC – good luck convincing him!

PC @ b.
PC – what is going on?
b) ‘Y’ here wants to change our transport roster, I do not agree?
PC – Why?
b) Our transports are getting attacked by these vines.
PC – So change your roster?
b) Well, two attacks doesn’t make a pattern, and it’s hard to change schedules.
PC – Why is that?
b) People are creatures of habbit, and two points are easily connected, but that doesn’t mean they are.
PC – well good luck on your decision!

Done, maybe 10 min, grab 2 existing NPC’s and add the dialog, cue the two lines, which could be just the voices of two employers. Adds another 30min. Put it on the internal live server, have QA run in 20 times to see if the voices pop, and text is in order… put out…

OR:
Grab a piece of some area along the line of Mordi’s movement, grab an interesting piece of rubble or place of significance. Add some structural vines to it, maybe some spawn points for vines set timer to 10min … with existing structure and things created, can’t be more than an hour of work … push to QA … push to live…

This will also make the waiting time a bit more palatable, and keep interest in what’s going on and what will come in the minds and heart of the community. And it doesn’t even have to relate directly to the current story. I mean, what about some Sylvari or Charr or Norn voice acting talking about the hit to LA.

The more I think of it, the more I think this might be more of a Anet wide thing. ‘Change something every other day’. Notify people long in advance, so they can think about it in their own time. Urge them to keep it small, so implementation isn’t more than a few hours or morning for somebody. And add it… Could also be great for inter-departmental bonding, broadening understanding of the work in other departments, and give people at Anet a way to put a personal (be it small) stamp on the world.

anyways, I hope you will consider some of this feedback… time for me to just enjoy the game.

I am not sure how Anet does their content stuff but if this is what did, then consider this post disregarded:
Anet could have already have the whole story for Season 2 (at least the Mordremoth story) all prepared and they just divided it into episodes to maintain interest. All they would have to do other than work on the next story is to simply beta test (heavily) the episodes and distribute them timely.

Obviously I do not know how Anet does their stuff either… It is to be expected that they do as much as possible before hand, so that the 2 weeks in between episodes can be used to finalize & tweak things. But regardless of how they do things, on the management/ organisational front, you can evaluate the outcome of it, and compare it to things that one would expect… This thread is more about those things.

When I was re-evaluating what I said above here, I basically came to the following ‘things’ to be connected to telling a story in a game world.
1. The story itself, what is it about, whos involved, where does it take place. How does it effect those involved.
2. How does story effect the locations in which it takes place.
3. How do the story events effect those that are indirectly connected to the story, how does ‘the news’ spread to them. And what are their reactions.
4. How do the story events effect the world at large, how does ‘the news’ spread, and what are the reactions.

We can see that a lot of time and effort goes into 1. and I were to argue that when viewed overall this is actually going fairly well, some inconsistencies/ criticism in it can be related to later points.

Where it concerns 2. we can see that the effects of the story seem to stick fairly within the constraints of the story scope, I say fairly because there are ‘tid-bits’ scattered around (vines spreading, books library) that do try and broaden the scope of the story into the world.

As far as 3 is concerned, we see again that for as far as it is incorporated into the story it is addressed, but outside of the story we see little to none (now sure, given that the world is huge, there might be some locations that try and do this, I personally haven’t come across them). This is also the point where the Living Story starts to convey a Living World, so in regards to this forum-section (LS & LW) it is in the right spot to mention this.

4. Seems to be of the least concern, now sure a lot of the LSed1 is concerned it took place all over the world. The thumpers, the invasions, but these are still fairly within the constraints of 2. Though even with these events we (at least myself) hardly saw any interaction of these events with the normal events in those same locations.

Some more considerations, thoughts and possible solutions in the next post

Malkavian.4516:

All they would have to do other than work on the next story is to simply beta test (heavily) the episodes and distribute them timely.

After the traits, megaserver woes, and now the broken world LS events…

I don’t think ANet tests anything. I still can’t finish my event string because the events are broken.

Erm, you do know that LS episodes are actually made and worked on longer then two weeks right? It’s just released every two weeks. IIRC there was mention of how they got teams working on episodes in advance so right now they could be working on episode 5. Even if they purely made episodes one at a time (doesn’t make sense), having it all done in two weeks is pretty good.

Kinda like how TV shows, they film during the ‘break’, and then release the episodes weekly IIRC. They don’t actually film and produce an entire episode in a single week.

Rauderi.8706:

Malkavian.4516:

All they would have to do other than work on the next story is to simply beta test (heavily) the episodes and distribute them timely.

After the traits, megaserver woes, and now the broken world LS events…

I don’t think ANet tests anything. I still can’t finish my event string because the events are broken.

You do know there is the fact that you can only beta test so many issues? You can fix every single issue that pops up in internal testing, but the MOMENT you send it out to the entire world, loads more interactions happen with different systems and connections. Loads more people are doing things at the same time.

Sometimes there are issues that cannot be discovered internally before the public gets it.

Rauderi.8706:

Malkavian.4516:

All they would have to do other than work on the next story is to simply beta test (heavily) the episodes and distribute them timely.

After the traits, megaserver woes, and now the broken world LS events…

I don’t think ANet tests anything. I still can’t finish my event string because the events are broken.

Which events? I actually finished the new LS last night and didn’t get hung up anywhere. I assume it is one of the open world events, just curious which one(s) is bugging.

Personally my main concerns are with 2 and 4, as these are the most apparent and mostly convey a Living World connection with the Living Story. But I do want to mention/add something about 3.

Conveying 3. I think it is important for Anet to consider how news spread on Tyria, f/e we see that Belinda takes a report to Fort Salma. In another instance I think it was Rox who mentioned she send a ‘mail’/‘letter’ to Rytlock. I will assume her this is a Pidgin-Mail as that seems to be the way ‘mail’ is conveyed to the players. Both imply a certain timeframe for news to travel, which would obviously need to be considered in regards to mentions here and there. F/e the ‘runner’ that is taking the Artefact from Iron Marches attack to the Priory, will take a certain amount of time, after this time the conversation I put in my 2nd post would start to make sense…

Luckily the scope of our story is so ‘Omni-present’ that the places where the response needs to be conveyed are fairly limited. It’s in the higher command echelons of the Races, and The Orders. And this is only for as far as they could make sense, f/e the attack on LA would have only made sense to be discussed in Divinity Reach, they are closest by and LA was a human city. And in the Azura Capital, where the ‘portal crew’ would have to be send to LA to fix/set up the portals…

The people concerned would more then likely be in the same places every time, taking the humans for example, it would be either: ‘the queen & anise’, ‘the politicians’, ‘the headquarters of the Seraph’, depending on the scope of the information. This is both convenient for Anet and for us the players, there are distinct places where background information can be ‘added’ / ‘found’.

This could even be split up, in a ‘general information’, ‘race associated information’, and when the orders are concerned ‘order affiliation’. The cool thing about this part of the information line, is that it can extend over onto the forum, as people can share the more detailed information. Aka. it stimulates interaction outside of the game…

Connection with 4 The way information spreads is then important for how it travels into the world at large. Seeing that we just established that the convenience of ‘information hubs’ is both beneficial to Anet and to Us as players, why not use it in other places as well: ‘gossip square’, could be a location in every capital where certain NPCs share snippets of information based on ‘hear say’.

Seeing these are also the location where players congregate it is the most convenient place to convey an interaction between the LS and the LW (for Anet). Seeing ‘hear say’ more then often warps the information as it travels, it may also be a good place to serve as an outlet for some humour. And for us as players this offers a nice change in these locations, which by far have the highest annoyance of repeated ‘voice acting’ in the whole world.

In a world with low tech information spreading, there are two other ways where information spreads. It is the close vicinity, and along route of merchants & travellers. From these the ‘vicinity’ is the most important, you simply can’t convey a living world with LA in ruins and not have some mentions about it in the closer vicinity of LA that more than likely depends heavily on the city for shopping, have relatives living there, etc…

And last would be the merchant/traveller trails, information along these lines goes slow, but distortion is less likely to occur, seeing the source of information is the same along the line. Though seeing that settlements depending on their information from these sources rely so heavily on them, it’s not uncommon for that information to sing around for some time, and because it can take quite some time to reach these places it is news there long after the events have passed.

Using this can give some interesting conversation with people in these places, where you as a player can fill people in on more recent events… In this sense I am reminded of some conversation between some NPCs in some fort, en route to LA. They could be a great place to change some conversation, incorporating them hearing about the destruction of LA, and how they should maybe change their plan. Where you can then fill them in that LA is already rebuilding…

Obviously these last ones would be far and in between, sort of like the sprinkling on the Whip cream on the Cake that already has a cherry on top. But still, using the Merchant routes to spread tidbits of information can make the world feel more alive and at least convey the spread of information…

Rauderi.8706:

Malkavian.4516:

All they would have to do other than work on the next story is to simply beta test (heavily) the episodes and distribute them timely.

After the traits, megaserver woes, and now the broken world LS events…

I don’t think ANet tests anything. I still can’t finish my event string because the events are broken.

If they don’t test anything, then why is it that other players can now play the event strings? Testing something doesn’t always mean that it will be 100 percent perfect. One could only hope to minimize the bugs rather than wipe them out completely. Such is the problem with every modern MMORPG in existence, I suppose.

While I love the fact that people comment on the threads I start, this thread was meant to discuss the LS & LW other than the bugs.

In this regard I am not talking about vine events attracting a fair amount of aphids (who could have guessed). No, I am talking about the little things…

So if you could take the bug discussion elsewhere, that be much appreciated. Any sensible discussion on what this thread is about: Being the quality of the content in relation to the time spend on it, and how where the quality could be improved; Is much appreciated, I am only one person, and I can only give my point of view, of my ideas. Any feedback, consideration or agreeing is thus welcome…

As a software developer I can promise you that “when it’s done” is some sort of fabled mystical country that you’ll never come to know of. Deadlines are important since (even if harsh) give people goals to work towards.
That being said I would be willing to wait longer for more comprehensive and verbose LW content patches. Although I’m sure ANet works on content for more than 2 weeks having a 2 week breaking schedule means you’re basically constantly on the death march (because I know a piece of software is never done, it never stops being tweaked or modified or improved up until release).
However I do prefer these rapid content releases (a 2 week release schedule is already barely holding my attention), but I also want higher quality, more verbose releases… wish I could have it both ways…

In Season One each complete content patch took 4 months to complete and release. I’m not sure why you would think they are doing the patches in only two weeks now. I’m sure it must be near the same amount of time.

The long break we had was probably mostly spent on getting these next releases ready. We are about to have another break…sigh..already. I, for one, prefer the two-week release schedule, and hope for less breaks, rather than even more time between content updates.

There were and are changes all over the world, which is cool. If not for the forums, I would probably not have even known about some of them. If they continue, and expand upon this, that will probably be very interesting.

Actually, I would prefer if they dropped the whole 2 week rush charade schedule thing altogether for one large patch once or twice a year. While we have other filler (non crucial plot driven) content like the normal festivals or other side actives. Even as small as getting something old from GW1 back into GW2. Remember the bottle of grogg on talk like a pirate day? Those small events were fine on their own, while most of big epic stuff would be left for year to pass. We all don’t have a short attention span; we have other things to do while we wait. Quality over quantity will make the content less forgettable.

Sindex.9520:

Actually, I would prefer if they dropped the whole 2 week rush charade schedule thing altogether for one large patch once or twice a year. While we have other filler (non crucial plot driven) content like the normal festivals or other side actives. Even as small as getting something old from GW1 back into GW2. Remember the bottle of grogg on talk like a pirate day? Those small events were fine on their own, while most of big epic stuff would be left for year to pass. We all don’t have a short attention span; we have other things to do while we wait. Quality over quantity will make the content less forgettable.

So players can rush through six months to a year’s worth of content in a matter of weeks, and they spend the rest of the time complaining about the utter lack of new content and long waits in between the patches afterwards?

No thank you.

Draknar.5748:

Which events? I actually finished the new LS last night and didn’t get hung up anywhere. I assume it is one of the open world events, just curious which one(s) is bugging.

It was the “gather a sample” one, where you head to the event, roll yourself in spores (allegedly) then pick them and give them to the NPC. The spores weren’t appearing.

I logged in yesterday, and apparently I had gotten credit for it, so I continued on and finished. Still, it was really, really irritating not being able to finish the flamethrower mission and then the samples mission in the same week.

It speaks volumes about ANet’s quality control. :\
Especially since that poor dude with the devours is stuck in the middle of the flamethrower event.

Sindex.9520:

Actually, I would prefer if they dropped the whole 2 week rush charade schedule thing altogether for one large patch once or twice a year.

Again, fairly sure they have episodes created in advance of the scheduale, and are not simply spending 2 weeks total on each episode.

2 weeks is simply the release listing.

Ok, lesson learned… spend more time to come up with a title that better covers what you want to discuss. The main reason for this thread wasn’t so much the release schedule, seeing I already assume the preparation time to exceed the 2 week release schedule. If anything the title was supposed to hint to the question whether sticking to this schedule is doing the quality any good… or rather, if making it 3-5 weeks, or even months would actually improve it…

My personal conclusion from this is that no amount of time would ever be enough, so it comes down to finding out what could or should be done to come to a certain level of quality that is acceptable for the time frame it needs to be conceived in. Now just giving criticism on the level of ‘it sucks’, to me, feels rather easy. If you can’t recognize the problems Anet has to deal with, and can’t come up with ways to deal with this and propose ways to improve releases, then your criticism isn’t helping anything. It’s a mere venting of frustration, instead of helping the game along.

So a large part of the posts were an analysis of what’s actually going on, and how content is being received. To then draw a conclusion on a ‘higher level’ to reach a viewpoint through which the current content can be evaluated (aka. the levels of which the story influences the world). To then indeed analyse the content this way, and find area’s where it can be improved, to then give examples of how this could be achieved in a way that makes it recognizable for the player, and in a sense easy (not very time consuming) for Anet to implement. So that we can all benefit from an improved quality or at least come to an acceptable level of interaction between the story and the world. Because I think that is what we are all (Anet & Players) after…

Now there is another thing I feel Anet is struggling with, which from my point of view can also ‘partially’ be solved by looking at the LS content (playing out in the open world) differently. It is how to create more content for the game and players, by having the story run in certain areas. I will give an example in the next post, of how I think that using the Living Story to create content for the Dynamic Event System, would increase the amount of events for normal play, while increasing the Living World experience. It’s basically a continuation of my monologue discussing level 2 of the story interaction with an example of how the ‘Win the Norn over’ could have been designed…

The weird thing with the Sons of Svanir is, that they have a base of operation in Hoelbrak. On the other hand, there seems to be a lore reason for it, seemingly Norn society is open to all Norn regardless of the Spirit they Warship. In the ‘Win the Norn over’ it could have been part of the conversation with Eir. Because I was thinking “they have a problem with Svanir? Why let them live in Hoelbrak?”. A few lines would have been enough:

PC: If you have such problems with Sons of Svanir, why do you let them live amongst you in Hoelbrak?
Eir: We have learned from conflicts in the past that judging a person on their spirit is not beneficial to our tribe as a whole.
PC: But these Sons of Svanir obviously cause trouble.
Eir: If we were to throw out everybody involved in any brawl or barfight, Hoelbrak would be pretty empty by now.
PC: I see…
Eir: And it’s not so much the Svanir here in Hoelbrak, but those living further away.
PC: Still though, the obvious place to come into contact with them, join them, and increase problems elsewhere start here.
Eir: That is a good point, throwing them out though is no solution.
PC: Well, let me go and talk to them, perhaps they can influence their peers..
(or something along these lines)

Then we were to head towards the Sons of Svanir base, and enter a small instance there, to talk to ‘the boss’. He would obviously scoff any of our reasoning, and boast about the power of Jormag, and how one day all of Norn will have joined the Svanir. Then we would obviously argue that, if they are not willing to listen to reason, we will have to go out and do something about their operations. Which ‘the boss’ would obviously laugh at, and challenge us to try…

We would then be send out to destroy the nearest Svanir Camp. Upon completion, we would return to ‘the boss’ and tell him that if they don’t change their ways of aggression towards people in the shiver peaks this wouldn’t have been the last thing you did. He would obviously laugh at your puny attempt to put a dent into their organization, Jormag and the Sons of Svanir are bigger than just one camp. You would obviously respond that he will regret this stance.

You would then get the ‘step’, ‘show the Svanir what you are made off’, which would send you to 5 area’s in the shiver peaks, with the assignment to slay the Svanir in those locations. After doing so, you would return to ‘the boss’, showing that you made true on your promise; He would obviously respond with something along the lines of: ’Don’t you think you can ever defeat the Svanir, if you defeat one, two will take it’s place’. (Hail Hydra! *cough*). Then he would obviously turn red and you would defeat him…

We would return to Eir to discuss the situation. How we tried to convince them, but that their believe is to strong. Eir would point out that she heard they have already assigned a new leader in Hoelbrak (he would obviously take the place of the previous ‘boss’ after the events are over, so that ‘nothing really changed’). And she would point out again that if we didn’t do something about the Svanir, that the Norn leader would not come to our summit. To which we obviously have to reply that we will go and deal with it…

Cue, ‘world event’, ‘Win over the Norn’. A bar would indicate progress, and the goal is to ‘cull the number of Svanir in the Shiver Peaks’. Progress would be made on all servers in the whole of the Shiver Peaks (or a couple of designated maps – if all is to much work to program or strain). At the end of this world event we would be called to Eir again, and our success would be recognized and they will join our summit…

Ok so far I haven’t added anything, but that is now to follow, i’ll use a new post to show how the last phase could be used to signify change and to add to events, and create a more living world.

Then people would just turn around and complain that Season updates are too short for how much time we have to wait between large updates.

To signify change based upon our actions in this world event, and to add more events to the world. The following could have been done, divide a fair number of Svanir locations and events into a setup with several ‘tiers’. Examples:

In Hoelbrak:
- Tier 0 : Svanir discuss recruitment in various places of Hoelbrak
- Tier 1 : Current Svanir behaviour in Hoelbrak.
- Tier 2 : ‘Current’, but there are just more of them.
- Tier 3 : Svanir boast about the power of Jormag and the Svanir in Hoelbrak.

In wayfarers.
- Tier 0 : The encampment of Svanir is considerably smaller, it consists of a few recruiters, recruits, and a veteran.
- Tier 1 : The encampment is about 2/3 of normal, the recruiters are replaced with normal svanir, there are still recruits, there is like a veteran with 2 luits.
- Tier 2 : The encampment is it’s normal size, there are only normal Svanir, and it’s basically like it is now.
- Tier 3 : The encampment is the way it is now, there are 3 Shaman added, which have a dynamic champion event, as they periodically ‘initiate’ a Svanir to the full power of Jormag.

The forest in between the pass north and the river
- Tier 0 : Several Svanir Recruiters would come out of the woods and address passers by.
- Tier 1 : Svanir recruits would do what happens there now.
- Tier 2 : Normal Svanir would do what happens now.
- Tier 3 : Several Shaman would try and corrupt the Oak Heart there, and succeed if not stopped -> Slay the Corrupted Oakheart.

Along route north
- Tier 0 : recruiters would try and talk norn into joining the Svanir. The camps along the route are empty (in habited by creatures)
- Tier 1 : recruiters would try and talk norn into joining svanir, interchanged with roadblocks manned by recruits. The camps would have a vet svanir with recruits.
- Tier 2 : Roadblocks would be manned by a recruit and normal svanir, camps are manned with normal svanir and vet.
- Tier 3 : Roadblocks would be manned by 3 normal svanir, they have siege engines manned. And the camps would have an ‘elite or champ’ boss in it.

other locations
As you progress further north, the recruiters wouldn’t make sense anymore, there be less recruits, but perhaps ‘initiates’ could take their place in the lower tiers.

Ok so now! As we slay these Svanir during the world event ‘win the norn over’, the bar would be divided into 5 parts. Seeing most ‘tiers’ are on the ‘tier 2’ level in their current setup (or the update would set them into this tier). Then upon reaching the first quart of the entire bar. All the events would scale into tier 3, we could receive a mail from Braham, that our actions haven’t gone unnoticed, and that the Sons of Svanir are strengthening their positions ‘all over’ the shiver peaks.

Upon reaching the 2nd ‘divide’ on the bar, all the events would scale back to tier 2. Upon reaching the 3rd divide they would scale back to tier 1. Upon… all the way down to tier 0. YaY! Success, we won the Norn over, the Svanir have been dealt a considerable blow, and won’t be much of a problem for quite some time…

After all these events, the created ‘tiers’ could now be linked to failure of various event dealing with the Svanir. Where they would eventually scale up the tiers… And success in completion of events would eventually scale them down in tiers. Perhaps a time restraint could make change more eminent, or even taking ‘season’ into consideration (mainly winter time) would be a cue to scale things up (or down).

We would have had a great number of fights, and our fights would have felt like they were responded to by the Svanir (going up in Tier). As we fought on our victories would have felt like they made an impact on the world, for as far as Svanir are concerned. And we would have been able to see the changes. And, seeing that there are now various tiers created, this content can there after be used to facilitate the living world experience… and in all honesty, as far as content is concerned, nothing really changed, all events in all places can still be enjoyed, on every tier. Yet the experience of these areas turns from ‘in limbo’ into ‘changing’.

Now I realise this would have been a considerable update to accomplish, yet, by using existing foes, and existing locations, changing existing dynamic events. The work load would have been less than actually making all new content. Now true, for the 4th tier some new creatures would have had to be made, but all still within the realm of the Svanir, a group to be expected to be part of some other story segment some other time. So even those have a chance to be reused at some point. The rest is mainly a change in name…

I also recognise that this can not be done with every story step, but, as stories continue to effect certain area’s (level 2), using these kinds of ‘build out’ of existing content in other area’s. The LS could really help to create content for the LW. In this sense I could have easily seen a similar setup used to increase the Centaur Content. Various other Dragon related content. Well basically any large foe group, when effected by a certain story chain, could be enhanced this way.

So I personally think looking at the story at the ‘level 2’ perspective, should give Anet loads of ways to increase how we experience the actual story, besides various story-foe related additions to existing areas. And through that leave actual LW content in the wake of the LS…

One last addition: This mainly due to the scavenger hunt that has been added. And one that could also help on the level 2 part of the story telling.

It could be interesting to place certain story related events, outside of the realm of the actual ‘pointed to’ story steps. In this I am reminded of the final GW1 content, related to the shining blade. As I remember these (so I might be slightly off) there were various things that simply ‘had to be discovered’. Aka. there was content there, but only if you talked to the right person doing the right thing.

Now I’m not saying we should go back to this entirely. But putting in small to medium things to do, related to how the story effects the location (maps) in which it takes place, and ‘casually’ leading the players to these locations, could increase a sense of discovery, could enhance the feeling of there being ‘a big world where we can only be in one place and only do so much’ Using a scavenger hunt for this is obviously a fairly straight forward way to go about it… But the ‘way point effected route’ could have also been (and still be) a way to put some small to minor Mordremoth plunders some ruins en route. Or even just putting in some dynamic events that are seemingly unrelated to the story steps, yet close/ nearby / up-ahead, of the actual story location. Would be a decent way to convey that the events are ‘even bigger’ than what we are lead to experience…

It’s great that you have lots to say, but your posts are a bit long. Maybe a TLDR summary for each one. I gave up after the first one or two…. Sorry.

Sorry, the sons of Svanir are in town because they don’t cause trouble. Literally outside of town they are attack on sight/kill. Hell, most people in Hoelbrek ignore them anyway or stay away from them.

Basically, if the sons of svanir don’t attack people, or cause trouble, they don’t get kicked out. The moment they do, just like ANYBODY else, they get kicked out.

So the ones in Hoelbrek are actually among the best behaved Sons of Svanir out there. The problems come from those outside the city, not within. IIRC, the Totem we destyroy was forcably changing norn and such into icebrood or something.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

It’s great that you have lots to say, but your posts are a bit long. Maybe a TLDR summary for each one. I gave up after the first one or two…. Sorry.

Some things just can’t be said in 130 characters and a # …. but if you were to manage to read through this section: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/2-weeks-enough-What-about-when-its-done/first#post4263813

then the posts b4 just deals with how I came to that, and the rest to how it could be used to improve the quality of the content.