Guild Wars 2

If you consider the timing of their releases, they usually put out new stuff once a month or twice a month, which I take as meaning their “preferred” donation is $10 a month in gem purchases, with them hoping that you’ll want at least one of their gem items each month.

Given that I’d say not playing the game at all for months and then paying only about 2 months worth of “preferred” donation to catch up on everything is a pretty good deal.

It’s also worth considering that not all of the storylines give the awesome rewards like the armor pieces or components for Mawdrey. If you’re just wanting those you can purchase SOME of the chapters and play through the chapters you missed alongside a friend who has them unlocked.

I just think it doesn’t make much sense. Their ‘content’ is currently living story. This is the only new update that we’ve been getting. So how does the living story attract players that might have left the game for a break if when they come back they have to pay for it?

- Further, they have to pay for it while other people got it for free.
There is at present nothing new to bring old players back to the game other than living story updates, so they might log in and see that because its been a few days too long they have to spend money on a game to see if they want to come try the living story. I think a lot of people would just log back out.

Except that the only thing you actually have to pay for is the instanced story parts (which can also be bypassed by joining someone else doing them, or simply buy gems with gold). The new areas and such is completely free for everyone that owns the game. The vast majority of the content released have been part of the world rather than part of the instanced story.

Thaddeus.4891:

The thing is, that episode cost Anet money to make. Its content and content have a cost.

I am well aware of this. I’ve been playing games for a while, and particularly (after getting frustrated with consoles nickle and diming my gaming with friends experience) have been circuiting the breadth of f2p games. Looking at it in a vacuum then sure, Anet needs all the money the can to keep working on it.

Outside the vacuum however, you can look at games like Warframe – which has no box cost at all – and the only items you need to pay real money for is (the equivalent of) more character slots and more weapon slots – things that are incredibly affordable (10 USD nets you 170 RM, and a single character costs 20, two weapon slots cost 12). These are different genres of games, and GW2 still has more story than the other without a doubt, but the fact that it feels as though I, the consumer, get more bang for my buck there has lead me to spend a lot more money there on a lot more things.

Novuake.2691:

You can quiet literally not drink a coffee at StarBucks for 1 day and have enough + a bit…

As for worth, I find it worth more than 2.50. A lot more actually.

Man, I understand that it’s worth it in your opinion – that’s gonna change from person to person because it’s opinion. I don’t feel it’s worth it, you do, we can agree to differ there.
What you don’t seem to be grasping from me is the real-world experience of not everyone being able to afford that 2.50 repeatedly . Is it that much money? No. Just because it’s cheap doesn’t mean people can afford to spend it though – a lot of people have better/more important things to spend that 2.50 on than just 30 minutes of game content. This isn’t to say that they can’t, and certainly not to say there are people out there who don’t fit your description of people who pay 2.50 for a coffee (stuff is nasty, who would pay for it?) – but do try to understand that just because some/most can doesn’t mean quite everyone can.

It just strikes me as an odd thing to charge people for. Fancy weapon skins, convenient tools, additional storage/slots, ease-of-life features that aren’t necessary all make sense as things to charge for, but forcing to pay for the story makes it seem (to me) it would be better to just leave the story for expansions as they did in the old GW where they could charge their slightly-discounted box price everytime. Wouldn’t do much for the whole “living world” feel though.

If you can’t afford 200gems “2.5USD”..there’s something seriously wrong in your financial life (unless you’re a child). They literally give you the option to get the content for FREE by logging in for 60 seconds or less every 2 weeks. You think its unreasonable? I think its completely reasonable as the price is barely above 1 dollar NEXT to nothing. You can go outside and find this amount of change on the ground for searching for a hour. They give us content 99% of the time for free and the isn’t bad that they monetize something that is a extremely low cost (You do realize this is a company?) There really isn’t anything else to say, is you sound unreasonable yourself. Now whether these episodes are worth it is all opinion based, one person might say it is and one might say it isn’t, everyone holds value differently, so you will never get a right or wrong answer until you play it for yourself.

So first you argue that 2.5USD isn’t much money, and then you argue that prices and values are dependent on individuals and their own circumstances.
Sense made 10/10

Brimstar.9036:

If you can’t afford 200gems “2.5USD”..there’s something seriously wrong in your financial life (unless you’re a child). They literally give you the option to get the content for FREE by logging in for 60 seconds or less every 2 weeks. You think its unreasonable? I think its completely reasonable as the price is barely above 1 dollar NEXT to nothing. You can go outside and find this amount of change on the ground for searching for a hour. They give us content 99% of the time for free and the isn’t bad that they monetize something that is a extremely low cost (You do realize this is a company?) There really isn’t anything else to say, is you sound unreasonable yourself.

This is the problem with most of these debates – many people who constantly have the time or money for them don’t care and then firmly plant their feet without trying to see the other side’s view. I could buy the remaining story chapters I’m missing – but I won’t because I don’t feel it’s worth it. Doesn’t mean others don’t get their monies worth of enjoyment out of it, it’s just personally I don’t get enough out of it to feel I want to pay that money on it (just like I’d rather drink water from a faucet then pay to get it in bottles). I almost feel sorry for the folks who got into the game well after the fact, wonder why the state of the world is as it is (like all the people who wonder why LA is utterly destroyed) only to find out they have to pay another fee on top of the box cost to find out – because they couldn’t log in to play during the release window. For those of us who can log in, we are rewarded with the story for free – for those who can’t , they are punished for not having gotten the chance. (Perspective changes depending on what side your on, although that’s another person to person thing).

I’m not against ANET making money – I’ve paid them a few times now – but I’m thinking that they make plenty of money off of all the other things in the gem store (10 dollars per costume, 10 per character slot, 10+ for other services like personal nodes). Of course, there is also the box price of the game adding to that. I doubt they are “hurting” for money – of course that doesn’t mean that they couldn’t use more, and I don’t know their financial information. However, I’m against you (or others) claiming that it’s unreasonable for anybody regardless of their situation to afford however many payments of 2.50 it takes for them to get up to speed – You and I both don’t know their situation. They could be a single parent working two jobs paying for a car, house, multiple children, and all sorts of taxes and debts – and I can gauran-darn-tee that to them that 2.50 is a pretty big deal.

The constructive folks – the ones who offer other options like “find someone who has it unlocked and see if they will take you through it” or “trade money for gems, regardless of how ineffective that is”- that’s being helpful to people. It’s not being this high-and-mighty person looking down on the peasants. It might not be contributing to the discussion of the worth of the story content, but it’s at least something productive.

Arietta The Broken.1875:

So first you argue that 2.5USD isn’t much money, and then you argue that prices and values are dependent on individuals and their own circumstances.
Sense made 10/10

Who, me?
I’m saying the value of the content is dependant on the person, yes. I also agree that 2.5 isn’t much for most people – doesn’t mean all people can afford that.
I’d rather things like story weren’t paid for to unlock in the first place. They have plenty of other things to entice people to spend real money in the game IMO – but hey, maybe I’ve just been around too many other games these days to notice.

No the guy above me.

For me, I have kids and stay home looking after them. When I get to play revolves around them, like the rest of my life. So it’s quite possible I don’t have the time to log in for a couple of weeks because I’m just too tired to sit down infront of my computer and play where instead I could be asleep :>

$2.5 might not seem like a lot, but the minimum amount of gems I can buy is 800 for £8.50/$10 this means that actually, I have to pay a significantly higher price than you’re all saying it is. So actually for even just 1 living story quest I am ending up paying Anet for 4 even if I sit on 600 gems for the rest of my time in game.

in Season 1 people were complaining that those who missed the living story could not do it AT ALL.

now , ANET responds to that in Season 2 by allowing people who missed a living story episode to do it by purchasing that episode.

you don’t complain much when HBO sell the Game of Thrones DVD when you missed any of their episodes, do you ? it is the same concept.

Reruns.
Sky+ (recording tv)

Arietta The Broken.1875:

For me, I have kids and stay home looking after them. When I get to play revolves around them, like the rest of my life. So it’s quite possible I don’t have the time to log in for a couple of weeks because I’m just too tired to sit down infront of my computer and play where instead I could be asleep :>

Luckily, you don’t have to log in and play. You merely need to log in, once in the two weeks. It takes 10 seconds.

To those who are claiming that paying for LS episodes missed is expensive, I ask this: why do you want to play the previous chapters? Is it just for story? Or do you want the full package?

If you are just in it for the story. Then it’s easy as pie. Ask someone you know who unlocked the content and jump into their story chapter. If you want the full package, naturally you need to pay up. I can see where people are coming from when they say that they can’t afford to pay for those eps because they are too expensive in their eyes. But alternatives exist for a reason in that you can get the next best thing.

KorbanDallas.7389:

This is the problem with most of these debates – many people who constantly have the time or money for them don’t care and then firmly plant their feet without trying to see the other side’s view.

No, the problem with these debates is people thinking “need” should define prices and availability of products and services. Anet has no moral obligation to provide anything to anyone which is not stated in a contractual agreement.

Algreg.3629:

No, the problem with these debates is people thinking “need” should define prices and availability of products and services. Anet has no moral obligation to provide anything to anyone which is not stated in a contractual agreement.

When it comes to a debate, “need” isn’t always a necessary thing though. I mean, by all means none of use even need the game, need to pay Anet, or need to discuss it – but at that point it’s just arguing over semantics which I’m sure a bunch of us could agree would get us nowhere (just like all the folks arguing over the “play your way” statement never really getting anywhere with that). To have a hearty discussion though, we actually need to see the different angles so that we can contribute further to the discussion – Simply shouting things like “PC MASTER RACE” to anyone with a console doesn’t help point out features that would make it better, it just makes everyone that plays on PC sound like idiots for example. I’ve always felt that the point of discussions on forums (beside the loads of times it’s just people griping about things) was to get together all the opinions and by the end see if there was any way to improve the content/delivery/service/whatever.

In this case, for example – alternatives are available to ‘work around’ the current delivery system (find someone else who owns it and you get the general idea of the story, watch a playthrough elsewhere, grind out the gold needed to get the gems for it), but it still remains “is there a better way to do this?”

If we look at it from the perspective of people who just want to experience the story – don’t care about AP or rewards, for example – then a different way to deliver it might be to unlock the story playthrough for free, regardless of when a player logs in, so that they might experience the work the devs have put forth in crafting. To still turn a revenue from it, they then shift the unlock fee over to the achievement side of things – you want those extra rewards (like luminescent gear)? Pay your gem fee to unlock the ability to do so. Will it be a better method than before? Debatable, no doubt.

How about from the people who just don’t have time to log in for whatever reason (and it does happen, regardless of two weeks or not) perspective? Maybe they didn’t pick up the game until just recently and didn’t get the chance to log in? I’m sure they would love to just have it all for free regardless, as it’s not unreasonable to feel that they are being punished for this DLC-style transaction on things they missed – just like it isn’t unreasonable for folks who can log in to feel rewarded for doing so by unlocking the story. Of course, then we lose that revenue source for Anet (regardless of how much they actually make of it – I have no clue), so that’s isn’t ideal for the “support Anet standpoint”.

To me though, that’s the point of the debate – to try and see all the sides, and then use that information to come up with an improved system. Remember how the NPE happened because new players apparently had a bad time with starting off? It’s the same concept for a different game system – that’s how I see this.

Content takes money to develop, so I’m fine paying for content, as long as I don’t have monthly fees.

But, then they provided incentive to keep logging in, on the theory that it will cause people to play a little if they bother logging in, or at least it will keep people from forgetting that the game exists.

Okay, so you can pay a small fee for a small bit of content, or you can log in. It actually seems pretty fair, but… humans have this tendency to be unhappy if they have to pay for something other people get for free. It’s human psychology.

KorbanDallas.7389:

It just strikes me as an odd thing to charge people for. Fancy weapon skins, convenient tools, additional storage/slots, ease-of-life features that aren’t necessary all make sense as things to charge for, but forcing to pay for the story makes it seem (to me) it would be better to just leave the story for expansions as they did in the old GW where they could charge their slightly-discounted box price everytime. Wouldn’t do much for the whole “living world” feel though.

I have the exact opposite opinion. I am annoyed at having to pay for more storage space — try to play with no storage/bank/inventory upgrades and see. (Yes, it’s common in other MMOs, but it’s the reason I didn’t stick with a couple of them.) More storage takes them no effort to develop, unlike story, which does take effort and time and money. So, it makes perfect sense to me to charge for things that cost them money to make.

KorbanDallas.7389:

All these people saying that 2.50 is nothing to a player who can afford a 2 week vacation in here make me laugh. I mean, does nobody work in a place that has holiday time you need to use? Heavens forbid that someone is scrounging to pay for a vacation for their family on top of paying their taxes and real world bills.

LS always start on Tuesdays. So, even if you must take a 2 week holiday away from home, chances are that that starts on Saurday till Sunday. Which leaves the first workday after the holiday to log in for 10 seconds and get the unlock.

But, the greater chance is, if you really can’t spare the money for 200 gems once a year, you probably won’t be able to go away from your home during that two week holiday.

Okay, time to address this topic.

1. Normally as MMO ages it’s the older content that becomes free, rather than it becoming payed for. Paying for early access makes sense. Accessing it early to never pay does not. Why?

Well for one thing the amount that a new player has to pay accumulates over time, discouraging new players from even playing your game. That’s why World of Warcraft gave away all expansion packs up until Warlords of Draenor.

Now what do we have in Guild Wars 2 currently? After the overhaul the personal story was butchered and lost its sequencing and was not fixed. That’s really bad storytelling right there. Season 1 is missing. Season 2 is pay for. If Season 3 releases and someone joins it in the middle of it, they will now have to pay for Season 3 and Season 2. The new player joining in at Season 4 will have to play for all 3 of them. The cost increases for not playing. So why come and play this game, when you can play some other game where you won’t be disadvantaged like that?

2. To all of those saying that “oh just don’t drink coffee”, well there are several problems with that.

First I’m living in UK with an EU bank card (tried getting one here, bank is still having an argument with the Council about my postcode), meaning that Guild Wars 2 refuses my card outright because the location and the card do not match. Paypal never even served Lithuanian cards. I tend to buy online game codes trough Amazon.com (Amazon.co.uk doesn’t serve me, Amazon.com does, figure that one out), however unlike Smite Gems, Guild Wars 2 Gems are only available in a physical card, rather than an online game code (rather silly if you ask me).

Secondly lets face it, there is a reason why we’re playing a buy to play game. I am a university student and my income is not the most stable. Some months I skip on lunches, other months I’m able to put some money into my savings account. Some months I can buy digital goods, other months I don’t risk it in case I have to pay for the dentist or a doctors visit. Money is not an easy subject and saying to someone else “oh it’s just a 2.50$”, well perhaps for them that’s a big amount of money? How can you say what you say?

3. “If you can afford a 2 week holiday, you can afford to pay for the story!”

There are more kinds of holidays than just leisure holidays.

For example my holidays consist of going back home to my parents at summer for anywhere between two weeks to a month. I spend my birthday money in order to be able to come back and spend time with them and in turn they provide food for me and pay my medical expenses. I don’t take my stationary PC with me, because it’s family time and more importantly it’s health time. You see I’m living with a medical condition that requires constant care and attention. I, on my own, could not afford all the visits that I have to take yearly. My parents are kind enough to help me with that, in turn I spend all my extra money that I would normally dedicate to leisure for half a year to come over and visit them.

Forced work holidays. Due to horrible economy times in some places you’re forced to take unpayed time off. Some people save up for that period, others just switch off everything that they don’t absolutely need and hole up until they’re able to work and get payed again.

4. Last, but not least “it’s only story that they take away from you”

You mean the most important thing in any virtual world? Oh you can access a place where you have no idea what is happening or why! Enjoy!

even reverse makes more sense. It’s easier to play knowing why but not being able to access it, than not knowing why, but being able to enter it.

Arietta The Broken.1875:

No the guy above me.

For me, I have kids and stay home looking after them. When I get to play revolves around them, like the rest of my life. So it’s quite possible I don’t have the time to log in for a couple of weeks because I’m just too tired to sit down infront of my computer and play where instead I could be asleep :>

$2.5 might not seem like a lot, but the minimum amount of gems I can **buy** is 800 for £8.50/$10 this means that actually, I have to pay a significantly higher price than you’re all saying it is. So actually for even just 1 living story quest I am ending up paying Anet for 4 even if I sit on 600 gems for the rest of my time in game.

This is an issue I actually have with it; it could almost be the elephant in the Living World room. You can’t buy 200 gems with real cash. Yes, you can earn gold in game to pay for it, but if you don’t have the time to acquire the gold, buying 200 gems should be possible. Then we can discuss if £2.50 or $2.50 or €2.50 (not equivalent amounts, as it happens) is too much or too little.

I’m sorry that some players could not login and get this stuff for free.
Previously the system was you had to be there to experience the content and get the exclusive rewards (Scarlet invasion, kessex tower) and once it was over that was it.
This new system is 100000% better – as if you don’t have time to do it then you can later in 3-12 months time and still get any item drops from the story !

The system rewards players for sticking with gw – even if that means logging in (and nothing else during a two week period) until your real life stuff gets sorted out and playing it later.

For the majority of players $10-20 can be saved for multiple LS upgrades OR 300g can be farmed out over a few weeks. Most play styles will net 10g/HR once you know what you are doing (eg silverwastes/drytop/cursed shore/Karka farming) and play the game as intended.

There will always be outliers who will be in special situations and catering for everyone is going to be nigh on impossible. Please stop with the “we are entitled to this” give it to us for free – look at the alternative ways to get this stuff. Or “its too expensive” – eg make it free.

If your struggling to get into groups where you don’t meet there requirements (eg zerk or AP/gear check) or are getting annoyed by them – setup you own group with a big “everyone welcome” sign to whatever you are doing by using the LFG tool.

TPMN.1483:

There will always be outliers who will be in special situations and catering for everyone is going to be nigh on impossible. Please stop with the “we are entitled to this” give it to us for free – look at the alternative ways to get this stuff. Or “its too expensive” – eg make it free.

If your struggling to get into groups where you don’t meet there requirements (eg zerk or AP/gear check) or are getting annoyed by them – setup you own group with a big “everyone welcome” sign to whatever you are doing by using the LFG tool.

I don’t need to pay to start my own LFG group. I do need to pay to understand the lore though. Which is worse than what free to play titles do. And you actually had to buy the game to begin with to play it.

Mirta.5029:

I don’t need to pay to start my own LFG group. I do need to pay to understand the lore though. Which is worse than what free to play titles do. And you actually had to buy the game to begin with to play it.

No you don’t. You can do every single S2 story instance in the game without every paying anything at all.

200 gems x 8 chapter = 1600 gems the whole season 2.
It’s still cheaper than buying an upgrade to deluxe edition.

If I was in charge of the gem store, I would make a bundle for 1200 gems..

200 gems per episode is not too expensive. It is the price of 3 bigmacs for a whole season. Be there in time and get it for free or pay them for their efforts afterwards.
Simple as that.

Moldur.6275:

Be there in time and get it for free or pay them for their efforts afterwards.
Simple as that.

and that’s the bit that makes no sense. How do you entice new players to buy your game by saying “this game will be far more expensive to you than to any of our veterans”?

Also your two burgers cost 17£? And then there’s a question of just is it worth it. Living story sums up to around 6 hours of story. I could buy a complete indie game for 5 pounds with around 20 hours of gametime and lore. Meaning that I could buy 3 games, or 6 hours of Guild Wars 2 story that was free for everyone that was there on time, but will cost more and more to anyone that joins in late.

lordkrall.7241:

No you don’t. You can do every single S2 story instance in the game without every paying anything at all.

If you have a friend that was there on time.

Mirta.5029:

If you have a friend that was there on time.

Or if you use the LFG-tool.
Or if you organize something on reddit.
Or on the forums.

200 gems = what like 25g?

That’s like 1 hour of playing.

If anything 200 gems is way, way, way, way not enough.

ekarat.1085:

I have the exact opposite opinion. I am annoyed at having to pay for more storage space — try to play with no storage/bank/inventory upgrades and see. More storage takes them no effort to develop, unlike story, which does take effort and time and money. So, it makes perfect sense to me to charge for things that cost them money to make.

I don’t have any of those upgrades either – just a handful of character slot upgrades. I think most of my acceptance of it is the fact that it’s just “quality-of-life” improvements.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

LS always start on Tuesdays. So, even if you must take a 2 week holiday away from home, chances are that that starts on Saurday till Sunday.
But, the greater chance is, if you really can’t spare the money for 200 gems once a year, you probably won’t be able to go away from your home during that two week holiday.

Vacation isn’t as much an issue for me – my lack of attention span to the game for the almost a year time span after the first feature pack on the other hand is what got me – although I managed to get on for the first two chapters and the most recent ones that actually have rewards. Vacations just seem the example everybody uses, so that’s what I stuck with as trying to do an example. I’d suggest looking at Mirta.5029’s post for better/different examples that I hadn’t necessarily thought of.

200 gems a year is assuming you only missed one. That price compounds the more you miss. I can’t imagine how long GW2 will continue pumping stuff out, but if it were (for sake of argument) to last for 8 years, and have 10 episodes a year, them gems would build up quick to the super-late starters (again, that much is theoretical at best).

TPMN.1483:

This new system is 100000% better – as if you don’t have time to do it then you can later in 3-12 months time and still get any item drops from the story !

Despite your sarcasm, I agree it is an improvement over what it was – although it’s not about the items for everyone (some people prefer lore and story to chasing after new shinies).

Most play styles will net 10g/HR once you know what you are doing… and play the game as intended.

If I play the game as I normally do – say with one of my non-80 characters I’m still banging out – I am not making 10g an hour. If you devote yourself to playing in one specific way and have some decent luck you can totally make 10g an hour. I’ve spent an hour in the Silverwastes doing event chain after event chains and picking up all those chests, and have not made 10g in one hour – it is an alternative sure, but some people are playing games to have fun not work, and what’s fun isn’t the same for everyone.

Please stop with the “we are entitled to this” give it to us for free – look at the alternative ways to get this stuff. Or “its too expensive” – eg make it free.

Most of us aren’t saying “we are entitled to this” – it’s more discussing about the actual price point it’s set at, and if it’s the best way of delivery. I bought a 60 USD game (GW2), and I played it for a year – that’s my money’s worth from the box cost.
I’ve also played a game for free for over 475 days in-game time without ever paying a penny, complete with new content on a weekly basis as well as bug fixes, entirely new modes, and completely revamped systems. After I had realized just how much time I had spent enjoying the game, I felt it was my duty to show my support and put down an amount that I could afford that still reflected the amount of time I had sunk into it.
In order for the game that we all would seemingly love (unless people just get a rise hopping onto forums to be vocal for the sake of being heard about things they don’t care, which would confuse the heck out of me) discussion like this should be had about all kinds of aspects of the game – not necessarily just because the dev’s point out a specific aspect they want us to talk about.

18 dollars for a quest chain? You can get Skyrim for less, expansion to SWTOR costs 20 dollars, you can sub for month to any sub based MMO and complete bunch of these ;-) GW2 istself cost 20 dollars in some e-shops.

Brahmincorle.1264:

18 dollars for a quest chain? You can get Skyrim for less, expansion to SWTOR costs 20 dollars, you can sub for month to any sub based MMO and complete bunch of these ;-) GW2 istself cost 20 dollars in some e-shops.

You can also get the quest chain for free. Either by logging in when it is live, or by transferring gold to gems.

Also a bit silly to compare a game that have been out for over 3 years with something that have been out for about half a year.

lordkrall.7241:

Brahmincorle.1264:

18 dollars for a quest chain? You can get Skyrim for less, expansion to SWTOR costs 20 dollars, you can sub for month to any sub based MMO and complete bunch of these ;-) GW2 istself cost 20 dollars in some e-shops.

You can also get the quest chain for free. Either by logging in when it is live, or by transferring gold to gems.

Also a bit silly to compare a game that have been out for over 3 years with something that have been out for about half a year.

What I am talking about is average bang for the buck. You can get so much more for 20 dollars (story/gameplay/quest wise) than one lousy quest chain.