Guild Wars 2

I would like to preface that I intend this post to be, above all, I intend this post to be relevant and constructive. There is much I have to say, and much of this will only be a small part of my thoughts. My thanks to anyone who makes it through the numerous paragraphs that are to come.

Firstly, I’d like to bring to attention the insane profits Riot games has making off of microtransactions alone. I believe they are set to, if they have not already, be the first company to break 1 billion (that’s right, billion) dollars in years microtransaction sales.

League of Legends is I game I played from the start. When I first started playing it, I thought to myself, “wow! How can something so amazing be free!” Over my years of playing I’ve put at least over a hundred dollars into the game (although I’ve lost track) and because I played it so much I had all the champions that I wanted and only purchased skins with my money.

Now, how does this relate to Living Story and why am I even posting in this sub-forum?

I have also been playing Guild Wars since prophecies. I must say, I have loved this series with all of my heart and the lore is at least 1/4th the reason I play it. I love the story, I love the setting. I remember my first time purchasing Guild Wars and loading it up, thinking to myself “wow! How can something this amazing not have subscription fees!”

However, upon purchasing Guild Wars 2 my computer let me down, and after a certain patch my PC would not run Guild Wars 2. A few years later, I have a new PC and I remember that I have Guild Wars 2, a game I never got to fully enjoy.

I start playing again, and I fall in love with the game. I immediately plan on buying the expansion and I plan on spending money on gems.

However, I go to check out the Living World (all that content that I got email after email about). To my disappointment, season one is simply gone and I have to pay to play season 2.

It was a knife in the heart. Call me a loser, think what you will, but I mean I experienced a real deep sadness when I found this out. I loved the lore for this game and wish to have been able to see it play out, but now I find out I am being punished for not having been an active member over the period of time I had a failing old PC (which took me awhile to replace as I am in college).

Now, back to what I was saying about League of Legends. I fell in love with that game because riot made me feel respected. They made me feel like I was a valued member the community. They kept the content flowing, all for free, and I felt great appreciation and showed that through purchasing their in-game paid for currency and buying the amazing skins they made for characters. Their business model never made me feel the need to pay, and because that I wanted to play and pay more than I would have otherwise.

I feel that many people like me, many people who are your loyal fan-base/customers, want to purchase gems and expansions and support the game. I expected the Living Story to be an amazing continuous flow of content, but instead I feel like my love for the game is being squeezed [to death] to get every last drop of money out of me.

I also fear for new players, who will pick up the game, log-in, play it, fall in love with it, and then realize they are being told they need to pay for old content because they are new members and not veterans.

So, hurt feelings aside, I think this will ultimately push people away and make your fan-base weary. I truly think it is in your best interest, for not only the love, but the money, of your fan-base to release living story season 1 and living story season 2 to be playable for free by everyone at any time.

Instead of feeling cheating, new players will come into the game and see a game that is forever growing, and they will want to explore it and invest [both time and money] in it. However, I fear if this practice continues, new players and veterans who happen to miss content will feel their world more shrinking than anything, as they will feel like they have forever missed out on part of the whole experience.

I hope this post is perceived as being constructive, as intended. I apologize for my sentiment, but this series truly does have sentimental value for me and now suddenly I feel like not adventuring legend of Tyria, but a mere late-comer.

I think that implementing these changes would be a win for everyone, both in positive feelings, and in long-term profits for ArenaNet.

As has been said in a number of threads on this subject, ANet would like to bring back LS1 but it will require a complete reworking of it as it was their first experimental pass and making a “living world” with history that flows onward. So they have to wait until they can spare the resources, and until then no one can play it other than in a couple of fractals.

LS2 was designed for replayability, and you don’t have to pay to see the lore of it. You only need someone who has unlocked it to open the instance and run it with you. Ask them to take their time with dialogues and reading books, and you’ll get all the lore.

Now granted I speak from the vantage of someone who didn’t miss any of LS1, I’ve been here all along. But life does keep going, and there will always be something you missed. I was only an infant in the 1960s, so I never saw the Beatles live. I did get to see Star Wars when it premiered in theaters, before anyone knew what it was. I was four when I watched Armstrong set foot on the moon live, something most of you can only experience in recordings. I meet new friends and hey, I wasn’t there when they did that cool Broadway performance or whatever, I don’t understand their in-jokes until I’ve known them a while. It’s in a past I didn’t share.

More game specific, my RP guild ran an involved plot in the first year of GW2. When told about it new members cry out “I wish I’d been there!” But y’know, they’re here now. And can be part of the new stories we’re telling.

So this game keeps changing, and people joining now didn’t get to play the BWE end blowout events. How unfair, no Shatterer Corrupts Ashford for them. Does everything have to remain available forever? The world (and databases) would get rather crowded if so.

Donari.5237:

As has been said in a number of threads on this subject, ANet would like to bring back LS1 but it will require a complete reworking of it as it was their first experimental pass and making a “living world” with history that flows onward. So they have to wait until they can spare the resources, and until then no one can play it other than in a couple of fractals.

LS2 was designed for replayability, and you don’t have to pay to see the lore of it. You only need someone who has unlocked it to open the instance and run it with you. Ask them to take their time with dialogues and reading books, and you’ll get all the lore.

Now granted I speak from the vantage of someone who didn’t miss any of LS1, I’ve been here all along. But life does keep going, and there will always be something you missed. I was only an infant in the 1960s, so I never saw the Beatles live. I did get to see Star Wars when it premiered in theaters, before anyone knew what it was. I was four when I watched Armstrong set foot on the moon live, something most of you can only experience in recordings. I meet new friends and hey, I wasn’t there when they did that cool Broadway performance or whatever, I don’t understand their in-jokes until I’ve known them a while. It’s in a past I didn’t share.

More game specific, my RP guild ran an involved plot in the first year of GW2. When told about it new members cry out “I wish I’d been there!” But y’know, they’re here now. And can be part of the new stories we’re telling.

So this game keeps changing, and people joining now didn’t get to play the BWE end blowout events. How unfair, no Shatterer Corrupts Ashford for them. Does everything have to remain available forever? The world (and databases) would get rather crowded if so.

I don’t think it is reasonable to compare the instanced content in a video-game to content things that actually happen and one misses.

Also, I don’t want to simply read about the lore when I could experience it myself. It is not the same thing.

Lastly, I don’t believe you adequatly addressed any of the points I made. Paying for old living world content is explicitly insulting, and just think about 5 or so years from now? How far along will living world be in 5 years and what if new players keep coming? Are they going to have to shell out a hundred dollars or more for old content?

That doesn’t feel like a game forever expanding, that feels like a game constantly shrinking its fan-base to the few who were there from the start that managed to keep up with everything constantly and consistently.

Why do people that complain about LS payment always ignore the basic facts that there are multiple ways to access it, the majority which requires a grand total of no real money payment whatsoever?

1: Buy the episodes with gems bought with real money ($2,5 per episode, that is less than a coffee)

2: Buy the episodes with gems bought with gold.

3: Join someone that have the episodes unlocked and play through them that way.

You even point out that you did see the emails about the episodes, which CLEARLY states that you can login within two weeks to get them for free.

lordkrall.7241:

You even point out that you did see the emails about the episodes, which CLEARLY states that you can login within two weeks to get them for free.

And this is where you lose practically all right to be angry about not having them xD

I take huge breaks from this game, 2-6 month breaks, but when i would get one of those emails i would log in and get the story. Why? because i love this game, i play it alot when im playing it, and having the story to do on my alts is a nice way to spend time relaxing when i dont feel like farming gold, sorry doing silverwastes. Not only that, but some of them where up for a good solid month before the next one. Did i miss a few? yes just because i didnt even want to look at the GW2 log in screen, but i bought them when i started playing again. Why? Because the story is important to me, and shelling out 10$ for a story mission and some gemstore items? sounds like a win win to me, 200 gems go to story, the other 600 are mine to do with what i please, like buy an outfit, black lion keys, MF boosters or whatever i want at the time.

Ive been playing GW1 for 7 years, 8 now, and this game since pre launch, off and on in both of them. I think its quite fair for Anet to charge for content that was not part of the base game, that expands on the game. More people are willing to pay for more story or stuff to do(Looking at WoW) than are willing to throw money at a games gem store.

Throwing 10$ or 20$ at the game, if you can do it, is not so bad. its cheaper than paying for an expansion in most games, which as all the LS is, a expansion. Plus the price of the game has dropped by 20$ since its release.

And hes right. If you want to see the story, send me a whisper and party up with me, im in your guild you know, and run the story quite often

About the new players, every new player i have brought into this game who has stuck around longer than 2 weeks, a grand total of 10, have all payed money for the living story episodes, without complaining. But most of these where all former WoW players, so paying a small amount(20 dollars) for a story is not much to them, when they are used to paying money every month to keep playing the game. The 2 or 3 who never played WoW went ahead and bought them to, they wouldnt have spent any more money on the game otherwise, as is their right of course.

Its also not insulting. It would have been insulting if they had charged up front for it, which they had discussed. This, paying 200 gems for it after its no longer available for free is their compromise. They also are probably going to be putting a bundle item in the gem store that will give access to all the living story episodes in season 2 for cheaper than what it would cost to buy them separately!

To be fair to the OP, he also said that he didn’t have a computer at the time that would let him play the game. If it was working, yes, it’s on him. Without having the access method… it gets a little gray. I’m not going to argue about this point, though, and instead hit a point that… hit me the wrong way.

You’re right that Riot did something right, and capitalized on a niche. (I don’t think they were even the first MOBA, with DOTA beating them out, and that was merely a Warcraft 3 hack.) I don’t know how accurate your statement about microtransactions is, or whether you mean annually ($1 billion in a fiscal year) or net (total sum is $1 billion). However, you can’t really compare the products the two companies are selling.

I’ve played League of Legends. A bit. I’m not very good, and the style doesn’t really interest me. Part of this is because it’s the same combat on the same 1-3 maps, doing almost the exact same thing. I know the challenge is in your opponents, and being able to outsmart/outmaneover/outbuild/out-whatever them, but it’s still the same game every time. What changes the company does make is which heroes are available free for the week/month/whatever, new skins, totally new heroes, and mostly game balances and bug fixes. The gameplay part itself is pretty minimal, and self-supporting. You have no attachment to your hero outside of “this is me”, “I like his play style” and “he kills guys dead”.

In contrast, Guild Wars 2 has over 20 maps in PvE alone (and I’m lowballing that) with more added… when plot demands, thousands of different events that can break at the drop of a hat, millions of items that can be collected, skins to collect, gear to equip, minipets, dungeons, bosses… the list goes on. You also have a personal story that is geared to YOU, the player, as you adjust the numerous sliders to get your avatar looking just as you want them, personalizing their back story, building up their legend, progressing through the world, and there are so many little variations thrown in most people miss them. This character is you, or someone you want to be, and you control a lot of their actions. When you get a victory, it feels personal, and not just “oh, time to get a new group and pwn the next nexus…”

LoL and GW2 are apples and oranges. Yes, they’re both fruits, but they’re not even in the same phylum (edit: looked it up. Apples and oranges are in the same phylum, but not the same order. It’s still a biology reference.). Thus, comparing their marketing strategies can’t quite be compared. Is GW2 using the optimal marketing strategy with its gems and cash shop items? Maybe, maybe not. I feel like they’ve done a better job than your average MMO, especially ones that offer pay-to-win gear.

lordkrall.7241:

You even point out that you did see the emails about the episodes, which CLEARLY states that you can login within two weeks to get them for free.

I literally could not load the game with my computer.

Also, I only saw a couple announcements and didn’t read them in their entirety as I did was not even able to play so I ignored the games existence for the time since college has been the focus of my life at the moment.

Rognik.2579:

LoL and GW2 are apples and oranges. Yes, they’re both fruits, but they’re not even in the same phylum (edit: looked it up. Apples and oranges are in the same phylum, but not the same order. It’s still a biology reference.). Thus, comparing their marketing strategies can’t quite be compared. Is GW2 using the optimal marketing strategy with its gems and cash shop items? Maybe, maybe not. I feel like they’ve done a better job than your average MMO, especially ones that offer pay-to-win gear.

I think different styles in gameplay are irrelevant in the comparison. However, the differences in what they can sell that will appeal to their players will certainly vary.

What I am saying is that Living Story leaves a bad taste in my mouth with it’s payment model. I’d rather buy stuff that is not as significant, stuff that makes my character look cooler or things of that simple nature.

I don’t believe I am alone in feeling this way and that is the point.

2.50 US dollars is a lot for some people, espcially because it adds up. How much will Living Story cost to back-purchase after it has more seasons added? It will add up a whole lot and fast. Also, farming for the amount of gems it costs is already a lot, especially for people who have real life responsibilities and can’t devote entire days to this game. It is also worth pointing out that this will become even more obscene once even more episodes and seasons are released if they keep the current business model.

Also, logging in should not be a chore (and sometimes, it is impossible when equipment fails, people travel, or real life take priority). They should make people want to log with exciting updates. However, they shouldn’t make people log in.

Also, the last point whats-his-name posted about going through the story with a friend. That is an inconvience to both parties. That feels more like an exploit than anything. Why not just make it free for all?

When Living Story is even more seasons along, how will people feel when they log in for the first time and discover this business model? Will they be forced to front money or have a friend drag them along through multiple seasons.

I truly like a lot about this game and want to support ArenaNet with gem purchases. However, I want to spend those gems on the things I want just because I want them, not things I need to now buy because I missed out on when it was free.

Shomun.5294:

Also, I don’t want to simply read about the lore when I could experience it myself. It is not the same thing.

You are not missing much, you know. Especifically regarding Season 2, you are likely going to have a better experience reading the lore than playing through the content. The gameplay itself is far from being that polished.

Shomun.5294:

snip

I’ll reply, point by point.

I wrote this in another thread that is basically the same as yours. It’s a bit long so I’ve collapsed it under a spoiler.

With regards to you “$2.50” point, I also wrote something in that same thread.

If that’s the case, then such people should really rethink the need to have things like
1. Internet – that’s not a necessity like food and shelter
2. Games – that’s not a necessity like a food and shelter
3. Cigarettes – that’s not a necessity like a food and shelter
People who are going through economic hardship are not likely to have the time nor money to spend on anything that is not necessary to survival. So that’s hardly an argument.

Logging in. Whether you choose to log in or not is entirely your choice. The way you put it sounds like Anet is putting a gun to your head and saying “you must log in”. What they’ve done is give you a carrot. Anet gives you 2 weeks not 2 hours, 2*days* but 2 weeks before they charge you. They provide you with the opportunity, you yourself are responsible for the ability to log in and get the update.

Saying “oh my PC/internet/house died/need upgrading/burned down etc and I couldn’t get the update, Anet should make it free!” is down right ridiculous.

Saying “I love this game, I want to support it but they really should be giving all of their main content away for free”

I’d continue but will probably run into the character limit.
I’ll end with This sense of entitlement really needs to stop.