Guild Wars 2

I dunno, it just bugs me how the Frostgorge part of this episode was handled from a storytelling perspective. Eir sends you to Frostgorge to attack a Svarnir stronghold from one side, while she and Braham do the other.
So you go in (assuming that you get a Breaking the Ice chain that isn’t bugged to hell and back), finish the chain and enter the instance.
Braham and Eir run in, with Braham gushing about how amazing and awesome and cool that Eir was and this leads to some sort of reconciliation between the two of them.

This just strikes me as really terrible writing, even in comparison with much of the rest of the living story. Braham’s animosities towards his mother was one of his only defining character attributes, and to have it resolved through a bunch of stuff that happened offscreen? If the Breaking the Ice chain had happened in an instance where you can actually see Eir kick kitten , that I could understand. But this just seems like a terribly written cop-out, to have one of the Biconic’s motivations be resolved offscreen like that. It would be like Rox showing up saying “Yeah, I did a bunch of awesome and cool stuff you didn’t see and I’ve taken over leading Rytlok’s warband” or Taimi showing up and saying “Yeah, I did a bunch of awesome and cool stuff you didn’t see and now my legs work”.

Whatever technical limitations that may or may have not been there, it takes some pretty good writing and storytelling to make an “Offscreen Moment of Awesome” work, and this is writing and storytelling that ANet’s writers do not possess.

I’m going to have to agree with you on this one, at least for now.

Right now, he’s stuck in his moment of “Holy crap, my mom kicks kitten” If they have that wear off some and have his old issues turn back up, then I guess I’m fine with him having been overwhelmed for a moment. It’s pretty clear he didn’t think she would live up to the stories he’d heard about her, so it was a shock when she did.

If it DOESN’T wear off, and this is the happy family moment, then I’m going to be disappointed. I don’t mind if he starts to see her in a new light, but this is too much of a jump for all at once.

Well, Braham being Eir’s son to even begin with out of nowhere was terrible writing too. At least their voiced conversations were ok.

To be honest, I felt every single step of this installment of the Living Story was badly written. On every level it felt like a failure to make what was supposedly going on match what was actually going on.

The tasks we had to fulfill to get the leaders to attend the summit felt like contrivances. They could have been completed by anyone. Take the crown (a very important item that we’ve never heard of until just now), for example. It could have been retrieved by any of the warbands stationed in the Black Citadel. But we’re supposed to believe it’s such a monumental undertaking that only we can handle it. The fragments were literally lying in piles of rubble. Rytlock could have easily retrieved these items. Hell, the custodian that cleans his office could have retrieved them.

Then, as you said, the character relationships felt like cop outs. Braham goes from “I don’t want anything to do with my mother” to “my mom is the COOLEST!” after one fight. Whitebeard goes from “we can’t help you because we have to an Elder Dragon to contend with” to “we’ll help you with your problems because you killed a handful of Elder Dragon minions for us” after we do what any notable norn could have handled.

The process of swaying these leaders to attend the summit, if they didn’t want to, should have had entire installments dedicated to them. Convincing Whitebeard to get on board should have been an it’s own release. By cramming them all into one release, all of them felt flat. There was no organic growth with any of the characters involved. Things went from “no” to “yes” with the flip of a switch. That’s not good writing.

I was kind of pleased with Braham and Eir starting to get over their issues. It was his sudden intro and "Eir has a kid wut" that felt off to me.

I guess it’s kind of Norny that it would be in a "my mom/son can really kick kitten" way.

darkace.8925:

The process of swaying these leaders to attend the summit, if they didn’t want to, should have had entire installments dedicated to them. Convincing Whitebeard to get on board should have been an it’s own release. By cramming them all into one release, all of them felt flat. There was no organic growth with any of the characters involved. Things went from “no” to “yes” with the flip of a switch. That’s not good writing.

While I agree how flat it feels, I prefer the way it was handled to the alternative of having separate releases for each leader. Having to spend the next two month’s worth of releases working on this issue would have been soul-crushing padding and timewasting. As you yourself said, all these tasks could have easily been handled internally. As much of a time-waste it is for two weeks, imagine how it would have felt after two months.

Well I have mixed feelings about it. For me the story in it is alright, and I like how you are taken out across different maps, for all the tasks. I even get that it is you who has to do tasks that could very well have been done internally, as it is a means to prove that you are worthy of their attention.

I think I would have prefered if it had been instances, like the previous parts, rather than world events with massive zergs during this first week at least. “So I am meant to prove my worth to the norn, by fighting off waves of Svanir all by myself… and this huge mob of other people with the same task” That just didn’t seem right in regards to story. Also with it being more instanced (even if it was group instances, for those who go “mmo should play with other people”) it could have allowed for fleshing out the story more to make it feel less flat for people.
Having open world events like the ones we got could still be there, but something sort of… aside from the main story.

Zeefa.3915:

For me the story in it is alright, and I like how you are taken out across different maps, for all the tasks. I even get that it is you who has to do tasks that could very well have been done internally, as it is a means to prove that you are worthy of their attention.

Here’s the problem I have with that. I’m going to use the charr as an example. The release of the Ascalonian ghosts is no small thing. They’re not going to entrust that to just anyone (particularly non-charr). So my character obviously has some renown, otherwise the charr wouldn’t have told them about the crown. But if my character already has that level of trust, why does he need to prove himself to them before they’ll agree to somethings as simple as a conference? If I have the clout to be entrusted to retrieve such an important artifact for them, then how do I not have the clout to get them to attend a summit?

At a guess, this summit is going to fail and Eir is going to disappoint Braham again. In terms of the writing, this reconciliation was needed before the summit so they lose even more trust afterwards. It all looks extremely clumsy and totally contrived.

Braham grew up away from his mom, and never heard anything BUT the legends as I recall.

And then when that information came out, everybody started heaping HER legend onto him, which is what really drove them apart I think. He wants to be known for HIS actions, not hers.

This is the first time he’s seen her in action, he can now link the legend to the woman. And he’s done a lot more stuff now then before, so he’s a little more experienced. Before he just sat in the stead all day long. As that’s the reason his love interest dumped him, he basically hadn’t traveled anywhere, or done ANYTHING.

I didn’t really see it as much of a reconciliation. At the end, their interaction was still awkward and strained. (“Um, so, uh . . . anybody hungry?” “Yeah! Let’s go stuff food in our mouths so we don’t have to try to talk to each other!”)

I got the impression that even though Braham’s first “adventure” with his mom might have been an eye opener as far as her fighting prowess goes, it really did nothing to mend their relationship.

The part that bothered me though was “my” acceptance of Eir’s decision to abandon Braham. (“Can’t be a hero with a kid dragging you down” or whatever “I” said.) Then again, my parents were pro-career and anti-child rearing so I have a built-in prejudice against people who treat their children like burdens.

(BTW, I still don’t like Braham. He’s a punk.)

Abaia.1365:

I didn’t really see it as much of a reconciliation. At the end, their interaction was still awkward and strained. (“Um, so, uh . . . anybody hungry?” “Yeah! Let’s go stuff food in our mouths so we don’t have to try to talk to each other!”)

I got the impression that even though Braham’s first “adventure” with his mom might have been an eye opener as far as her fighting prowess goes, it really did nothing to mend their relationship.

The part that bothered me though was “my” acceptance of Eir’s decision to abandon Braham. (“Can’t be a hero with a kid dragging you down” or whatever “I” said.) Then again, my parents were pro-career and anti-child rearing so I have a built-in prejudice against people who treat their children like burdens.

(BTW, I still don’t like Braham. He’s a punk.)

To me it was the PC accepting and understanding Norn culture. A Norn without a Legend is useless to the society and if one gets the opportunity to create one they should go for it at all costs. As someone who is really into anthropology I loved that part of the convo. Our PC doesn’t say that any one was wrong or right, just made a comment based on our understanding of the Norn.

I wouldn’t say they’ve completed reconciliation, rather they are just at the beginning stages, as you can see he still feels a little off around her, but I agree that should not be done off screen. The task in itself should have been instanced, and not played as a world event, since you were supposed to complete it alone.

At any rate, you should watch the POI video for this episode, It might make you feel a little better to know the issue isn’t off the table, they’re not one happy family quite yet.

It’s funny, but I felt this was the best handled part of the Braham/Eir story. It has been established that Braham feels resentment towards his mother for leaving her. What Eir feels is less clear to me, maybe a mixture of guilt and resentment (for making her feel guilty). So they are not on good terms with each other.

Then they go off and fight together and it goes really well, they are Norns doing what Norns are good at and they do it better than the average Norn. For the first time they are together and nothing feels forced. Then they stop and the things that they felt before are still there, they still haven’t resolved their issues, and are unsure of the other, but they have shared something. So it’s awkward.

Broham is in my opinion a very annoying character. He says things out of left field that contradict how everyone is feeling. Like when you go to stomp scarlet and she asked," dont you wanna know why I did all of this." Of course broham responses says," NO, we don’t like to be pushed around!" REALLY BRAHAM WE DON’T WANNA KNOW THIS VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL ABOUT THE STORY? Then when the master of peace says hes going to leave and braham asked him where is he going then he says no i can’t tel you braham seems totally ok with that? DA FUK he seems like a complete moron.

xXMapcoXx.9614:

Broham is in my opinion a very annoying character. He says things out of left field that contradict how everyone is feeling. Like when you go to stomp scarlet and she asked," dont you wanna know why I did all of this." Of course broham responses says," NO, we don’t like to be pushed around!" REALLY BRAHAM WE DON’T WANNA KNOW THIS VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL ABOUT THE STORY? Then when the master of peace says hes going to leave and braham asked him where is he going then he says no i can’t tel you braham seems totally ok with that? DA FUK he seems like a complete moron.

I agree with you on the first point, but with the master of peace I read it as him being sarcastic.

xXMapcoXx.9614:

Broham is in my opinion a very annoying character. He says things out of left field that contradict how everyone is feeling. Like when you go to stomp scarlet and she asked," dont you wanna know why I did all of this." Of course broham responses says," NO, we don’t like to be pushed around!" REALLY BRAHAM WE DON’T WANNA KNOW THIS VERY IMPORTANT DETAIL ABOUT THE STORY?

“Hm, YEAH, let’s allow scarlet to monologue, knowing full well she has in the past had voice commands on stuff. Meaning she could do anything from teleport away to summon an assault knight into the room.”

That’s the other option. Braham was being in character, and frankly if you let the villain monologue, ON PURPOSE, AFTER they say something like that “Don’t you wanna know why???”

It’s just asking for trouble.

I cringed when my character said collecting the crown “wasn’t a walk in the park”.

Because it WAS a walk in the park.

Well. It was to be expected. I mean, let’s be blunt; Rox and Braham have been completely and utterly pointless up to this point other than to dispense random “Yeah we support you. Go boss. Hurrah. Etc.” quotes. This was essentially Anet’s way of going “OH BY THE WAY. We didn’t screw up by spending a whole expansion on these two! Look at how relevant and kept in mind they are!!!111”

The result, given Rox and Braham still remain pointless, is some quirky splattered writting, with some Rytlock plot patched on top of it. Pair that up with Kasmeer suddenly being more of a main character than everyone else in Tyria, Marjory’s “brb, mourning” and Taimi apparently solving all of Tyria’s issues on her own despite being a child and you have this update wrapped and giving you a bad aftertaste so when the new bits come out, you simply -have- to come back to see the development of all of this oddity.

It’s called the Scarlet Syndrome by now, I’d guess.

Abaia.1365:

I didn’t really see it as much of a reconciliation. At the end, their interaction was still awkward and strained. (“Um, so, uh . . . anybody hungry?” “Yeah! Let’s go stuff food in our mouths so we don’t have to try to talk to each other!”)

I got the impression that even though Braham’s first “adventure” with his mom might have been an eye opener as far as her fighting prowess goes, it really did nothing to mend their relationship.

The part that bothered me though was “my” acceptance of Eir’s decision to abandon Braham. (“Can’t be a hero with a kid dragging you down” or whatever “I” said.) Then again, my parents were pro-career and anti-child rearing so I have a built-in prejudice against people who treat their children like burdens.

(BTW, I still don’t like Braham. He’s a punk.)

Yeah I felt pretty much like this. The line about ’can’t move mountains with a kid on your back’ felt quite harsh to me. Moms and dads do amazing things all the time; having children doesn’t somehow end most people’s careers and lives. And even if taking baby Braham into a warzone would have been a bad idea (and it would have, obviously) I don’t see why Eir couldn’t have maintained some contact with him, at least. Cutting him and her husband out of her life completely seems unnecessary and kind of selfish. I normally quite like Eir but I can’t really back her up on this one.

Laurelinde.4395:

Yeah I felt pretty much like this. The line about ’can’t move mountains with a kid on your back’ felt quite harsh to me. Moms and dads do amazing things all the time; having children doesn’t somehow end most people’s careers and lives. And even if taking baby Braham into a warzone would have been a bad idea (and it would have, obviously) I don’t see why Eir couldn’t have maintained some contact with him, at least. Cutting him and her husband out of her life completely seems unnecessary and kind of selfish. I normally quite like Eir but I can’t really back her up on this one.

Well, that’s what happens when the writers decide to write backwards…Star Wars prequels, anyone?

That’s part of why making Braham and Eir related was so stupid. It went against everything we knew of Eir, who in my mind would’ve never just left him with his nonexistant father (by the way, great writing making a character who exists and dies entirely in a short story). Even if she had to leave him during her time with Destiny’s Edge, I cannot believe that she’d never try to see him again, or try to find time to see him, or never mention him at all even to her guildmates…you know, in case he ever decides to go ask one of them for help instead.

As for Braham, it damages him because he gets stuck with being “that norn that happens to be Eir’s son” in the beginning, instead of being a good character on his own merits. Ad they didn’t use this plot point for anything except more cheap drama…

But, the damage is done. Only thing they can do know is try not to make a complete flop of it.

Braham is probably the least developed biconic (along with Rox) which is ironic because he (along with Rox) has been around the longest. The mother/son abandonment plot is core to Braham’s identity (it’s what his short story focused on – his father’s death, both of his parent’s legends and the decision for Braham’s father to raise him because Eir’s current and potential legend was greater than his father’s also considerable legend) yet it’s being explored very abstractly via proxy characters (Rox and Taimi) and the most direct moments for it happen off screen and accomplished very little.

For over a year that plot thread was ignored, Braham had almost no development. He’s usually replicating abandonment issues with Rox or babysitting Taimi, which is supposed to inspire an understanding on why his mother can’t be the amazing hero she is for all of Tyria with young Braham to take care of – that’s not coming across imo and it never will because unlike Eir leaving Braham behind, Taimi is usually present even when there is danger.

I personally didn’t like Braham being written in as Eir’s son. I don’t really like what it does to Eir’s character. She was a heroic, wise and responsible leader, sometimes to a fault. Her burdens came across well imo. She didn’t need to be “independent mother that defies non-existent norn gender roles” to be a great character, inserting that into her history kind of distracts from what she was before we were told she had a son. Eir’s story and character were hijacked by a “norn have no gender roles” lesson. Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit (a story about a woman who fights to protect a young boy who she gradually forms a parental bond with) and the Walking Dead both show you can be a hero and a parent, so personally I don’t it needed to be a choice.

The reunion in the last episode was underwhelming (considering it is a pillar of Braham’s story so far). Too much happened off screen and Braham’s realisation “my mother is amazing” is just silly – she’s a member of Destiny’s Edge and was one of the first people from the current generation to take down a dragon champion and even an elder dragon, how blind is Braham to not have considered this before? I’m sure it’s not the end of this plot, but this continuation of it felt contrived and pointless (especially frustrating because the Braham/Eir plot was a contrived way of contacting Knut in the first place – it was a needless side quest deliberately created to accommodate Braham and it doesn’t pay off).

From what I’ve gathered, there are three prongs to Braham’s story so far. His abandonment issues with Rox last year (Rox’s unconvincing dilemma to choose the Stone Warband over Braham) mirroring his mother’s choice to choose her legend over Braham, the pressure Braham is under to protect Taimi in dangerous situations and how that mirrors the realities his mother faced when choosing to raise or abandon him, and the relationship and possible reconciliation with his mother. I don’t think those three themes are coming across clearly in the game (I wouldn’t even think of the Taimi one if I didn’t read it from two different devs because like many conclusions in this latest release, it isn’t portrayed well imo) and as aware as I am that more is to come, I think this last release wastes screen time to accomplish very little (just like reminding us for half a year that Braham broke his leg).

Erm, wasn’t it established in the one short story featuring Braham’s dad, that Braham was wanting to know his mom, but HIS DAD held him away?

Basically it didn’t imply Eir dumped them at all, but the Dad kept Braham separate because Eir had other things that needed her entire focus. Mind you, with Norn lifespans this could’ve happened a while ago, Eir could easily be in her 60’s or 70’s.

I’ll try to dig up that short story and re-read it, but that’s what I recall. Eir’s husband/Braham’s dad was the cause of the two not really meeting, or if anything Eir went on her own journey and the dad kept the son.

WHICH, by the way, doesn’t seem that odd with Norn given how Knut’s wife explicitly just goes on long trips throughout the shiverpeaks and nobody bats an eye.

But I’ll be sure to re-read the short story again to confirm.

Mental Paradox.3845:

I cringed when my character said collecting the crown “wasn’t a walk in the park”.

Because it WAS a walk in the park.

Well I cringed when my character said: “you can’t move mountains with a child on your back”.

What? WHAT??

I don’t want to be someone who condones dumping your kid for whatever reasons…

Well, your choices are pretty limited when facing possible extinction from the dragon threat of Tyria.

1. Stay home with your family and wait until you and your family are killed off miserably.
2. Take up the mantle of hero, leave kid with father, try to save the world for said child that you might have a future together.

Which is better do you think? Says a lot about you as a person. Being that they’re norn no less, what do you think is more reasonable?

She didn’t abandon her son or even blow off her husband, she did it because she was able to make a difference.

And she has. Not just for herself or her family but for all of Tyria. Eir’s a hero. It’s something Braham begins to understand. She didn’t run off just for the glory of it.

That’s just a nice bonus, given she’s a norn. And Braham begins to see for himself, it’s not all just stories.

darkace.8925:

To be honest, I felt every single step of this installment of the Living Story was badly written. On every level it felt like a failure to make what was supposedly going on match what was actually going on.

The tasks we had to fulfill to get the leaders to attend the summit felt like contrivances. They could have been completed by anyone. Take the crown (a very important item that we’ve never heard of until just now), for example. It could have been retrieved by any of the warbands stationed in the Black Citadel. But we’re supposed to believe it’s such a monumental undertaking that only we can handle it. The fragments were literally lying in piles of rubble. Rytlock could have easily retrieved these items. Hell, the custodian that cleans his office could have retrieved them.

Then, as you said, the character relationships felt like cop outs. Braham goes from “I don’t want anything to do with my mother” to “my mom is the COOLEST!” after one fight. Whitebeard goes from “we can’t help you because we have to an Elder Dragon to contend with” to “we’ll help you with your problems because you killed a handful of Elder Dragon minions for us” after we do what any notable norn could have handled.

The process of swaying these leaders to attend the summit, if they didn’t want to, should have had entire installments dedicated to them. Convincing Whitebeard to get on board should have been an it’s own release. By cramming them all into one release, all of them felt flat. There was no organic growth with any of the characters involved. Things went from “no” to “yes” with the flip of a switch. That’s not good writing.

I’ll agree 100% here.

During GW1, getting the Norn to even talk about joining up to defeat the Destroyers was hard enough (hell, Jora even said to Ogden “We will not change our ways because of Dwarves that do not understand us” or words to that effect.
Understandably, the Norn have changed in the past 250 years! They have a main city now and cooperate a lot more, but the lone hunter culture still persists and this living story update just did not make any sense regarding that.

Anet has already kitten all over Norns in gw2, so this literary travesty is easily swept under the rug, but bloody hell Anet, step up your game.

Ending point:
If you want to release updates akin to that of a developing television series, keep your writing as strong as one would expect that of a solid show.

Mental Paradox.3845:

I cringed when my character said collecting the crown “wasn’t a walk in the park”.

Because it WAS a walk in the park.

Yeah. I mean, I literally walked into a peaceful little area, saw a brightly glittering pile of rubble, and pressed ‘F’ on it.

My guess is the devs ran out of time with the 2 week schedule and were stuck with making a best-effort at implementing what the writers wrote. It’s probably a lot faster/easier to stick a boss spawn in an existing zone than to create new instanced content.

Actually… that really makes me wonder. How are the big world events going to work with the story journal once LS2 is over? It seems like these might be stuck in as permanent additions…

darkace.8925:

To be honest, I felt every single step of this installment of the Living Story was badly written. On every level it felt like a failure to make what was supposedly going on match what was actually going on.

The tasks we had to fulfill to get the leaders to attend the summit felt like contrivances. They could have been completed by anyone. Take the crown (a very important item that we’ve never heard of until just now), for example. It could have been retrieved by any of the warbands stationed in the Black Citadel. But we’re supposed to believe it’s such a monumental undertaking that only we can handle it. The fragments were literally lying in piles of rubble. Rytlock could have easily retrieved these items. Hell, the custodian that cleans his office could have retrieved them.

Then, as you said, the character relationships felt like cop outs. Braham goes from “I don’t want anything to do with my mother” to “my mom is the COOLEST!” after one fight. Whitebeard goes from “we can’t help you because we have to an Elder Dragon to contend with” to “we’ll help you with your problems because you killed a handful of Elder Dragon minions for us” after we do what any notable norn could have handled.

The process of swaying these leaders to attend the summit, if they didn’t want to, should have had entire installments dedicated to them. Convincing Whitebeard to get on board should have been an it’s own release. By cramming them all into one release, all of them felt flat. There was no organic growth with any of the characters involved. Things went from “no” to “yes” with the flip of a switch. That’s not good writing.

I agree with some of what you’re saying, specifically regarding the stuff about Ascalon and the charr, which seemed like important enough plot points that they could have been the centre of an entire update with the pieces hidden behind some large new event chains, instead of what felt like a short sidequest (that are usually already completed when you get there).

But I don’t really feel like we missed anything by not being alongside Braham and Eir. They would have just been in the back of the fight, maybe with a few lines. It’s arguable that it’s too soon for this “reconciliation”, but I don’t think it was a cop out to not directly see them fighting together. Like others have said, it was more just about Braham realising the things people say about his mother were true and coming to understand that she left to do something really important – something he’s having to do himself now.

Also, Whitebeard never agreed to help us fight Mordremoth. We dealt with some of the immediate problems the norn were facing so he agreed to come and LISTEN to what we have to say, nothing more. Obviously something’s probably going to happen at the summit to convince everyone that Mordremoth is the threat that needs immediate attention.

What… Braham seemed more annoyed with his mother’s way of talking and how she handles herself, though respectful because well, she kicks kitten. He was not gushing.

It didn’t bother me, but then I didn’t see it as a complete reconciliation, more like a first step.

If I understood correctly their animosity started with Braham feeling like Eir had abandoned him, that she had a child and then just lost interest and went to do something more exciting. Especially because all he ever heard about her was that she had fought all these amazing monsters. He had never tried to make up with her because he assumed she didn’t want him around at all.

And I’d guess Eir approached this situation in much the same way as when Destiny’s Edge fell apart – she realised she’d make a mistake and assumed her son could never forgive her so she continued to avoid him instead of facing that. (Remember it was a big revelation for her during the dungeon stories that anyone would be willing to give her a second chance.)

So until now they had never had a chance to make up, or even to work out what exactly their problem was.

Then they end up fighting beside each other and they find that they actually have something in common, and that they’re both impressed with each other. On top of which (I may be reading too much into it) it seems like Braham is reconsidering what Eir did from an adults perspective, understanding that she didn’t really have a choice.

If and when we see them together again I don’t think they’re going to suddenly be best friends. I think it’s going to continue to be slow and awkward but hopefully their relationship will continue to develop.

(And I’d expect at least some of that to happen off screen because it would be unrealistic for them to want to have a conversation about their relationship as mother and son in front of a random group of people, or even a friend. It’s something that should be done between the two of them.)

Danikat.8537:

(And I’d expect at least some of that to happen off screen because it would be unrealistic for them to want to have a conversation about their relationship as mother and son in front of a random group of people, or even a friend. It’s something that should be done between the two of them.)

I agree fully with your post, but aside from all of it… Someone should remind Marjory and Kasmeer about this.
No, no. It’s okay. We are investigating a murder while being sieged by inquest assassins, please take your time to profess your love to each other for the seventh time.

I think I may have stressed my emphasis in the original post on the wrong part.
If Eir is going to whoop out the bad-kitten enough for her son to do almost a complete 180 on his opinion of her, then you have to do something to show that bad-kitten .
In this missions, after I stormed in the front door and killed everything that moved to destroyed the totem, afterwards they snuck in the back. So not only is that hardly bad-kitten , but it was enough to make Braham go all googly eyed? No, ANet, you’re not allowed to do that.

Say what you want about Braham. but this is a guy who was there at the defense of Lion’s arch killing Scarlet’s legions en masse, broke onto her airship and helped us fight that big hologram battle. And he’s in complete awe over his mom killing two or three svanirs as they snuck in the back of some little outpost in the middle of nowhere?

No, ANet, you can’t do that.

Anmida.4058:

I agree fully with your post, but aside from all of it… Someone should remind Marjory and Kasmeer about this.
No, no. It’s okay. We are investigating a murder while being sieged by inquest assassins, please take your time to profess your love to each other for the seventh time.

When did that happen? Because I only recall them talking about themselves while around Inquest… ONCE during the crash instance. At the start. And then they didn’t talk about their relationship at all until at least the end :P.

Also, about Braham and Eir. Reading the short story I saw these two bits.

His skin stood out starkly against his father’s darker tone. He’d been told he was a mix of light and dark, his mother having had snowy skin and his father with his brown bear coloring. It had never bothered Braham, until that moment, when he wished more than anything that he could blend more smoothly with his father, be more like him, the great warrior, the legendary hero—Braham’s hero—who lay broken and failing upon his deathbed. That may have been the first time Braham ever felt anger at the stranger who was his mother, for she had made him less like his father.

“Your mother’s name is Eir Stegalkin. Remember that, but I will tell you what I told Yngvi and Brynhildr. No one must send word to your mother that I am gone. I forbid it. She is capable of great things, as are you. She must not be tempted to stray from her path. Wolf walks beside her. But you mustn’t worry. He walks beside you as well, my son. Never forget that.”

So basically, seven year old Braham saw his father die, who explicitly forbade him from telling Eir about the death (Which likely would’ve caused her to come back perhaps). And that Braham wished he was more like his dad then a mix of dad+Lady he had only heard tales about.

IIRC, early LS it got worse when Eir didn’t/couldn’t help with the problems at the homestead he lived at, and/or everybody kept putting HER legend onto him. I figure if he was hailed as “Braham Borjeson.” he’d be a little happier?

Dakota.4591:

I think I may have stressed my emphasis in the original post on the wrong part.
If Eir is going to whoop out the bad-kitten enough for her son to do almost a complete 180 on his opinion of her, then you have to do something to show that bad-kitten .
In this missions, after I stormed in the front door and killed everything that moved to destroyed the totem, afterwards they snuck in the back. So not only is that hardly bad-kitten , but it was enough to make Braham go all googly eyed? No, ANet, you’re not allowed to do that.

Say what you want about Braham. but this is a guy who was there at the defense of Lion’s arch killing Scarlet’s legions en masse, broke onto her airship and helped us fight that big hologram battle. And he’s in complete awe over his mom killing two or three svanirs as they snuck in the back of some little outpost in the middle of nowhere?

No, ANet, you can’t do that.

Erm, wasn’t their plan you go in one way, they went the long way to also distract and keep all the sons of svanir reinforcements busy with them? So nobody would flank us or charge to aid the svanir camp after the attack started?

Also, that isn’t a ‘little outpost in the middle of nowhere’. It’s one of two Svanir strongholds, though the game might not make that clear with game mechanics and all.

Palador.2170:

If it DOESN’T wear off, and this is the happy family moment, then I’m going to be disappointed. I don’t mind if he starts to see her in a new light, but this is too much of a jump for all at once.

This. I think this is a step in the right direction but deep emotional issues such as these should disappear overnight. Braham is finally seeing Eir as a warrior, but that’s a long way from forgiving her for being an absent mother.

Kalavier.1097:

Anmida.4058:

I agree fully with your post, but aside from all of it… Someone should remind Marjory and Kasmeer about this.
No, no. It’s okay. We are investigating a murder while being sieged by inquest assassins, please take your time to profess your love to each other for the seventh time.

When did that happen? Because I only recall them talking about themselves while around Inquest… ONCE during the crash instance. At the start. And then they didn’t talk about their relationship at all until at least the end :P.

Yet it had been dragged for quite a while, which is what I was refering to. It’s not to say I don’t understand their worry for each other’s condition is important to their characters and Kasmeer “raise to leadership of the biconics” – which I don’t mind, of all of them she’s the one I like the most. – but I certainly did not need them to mention it at least once per mission/cutscene, or really turn most of their worries towards Marjory’s recovery.
Again, yes, anyone would panic at seeing their partner almost die, but after Kasmeer’s worry had been established, perhaps move on from the subject.

Though yes, I realize most of the rest of the dialogue in the mission itself was pointing out the obvious and remarking it over and over through dialogue bubbles; That kinda thing I just tend to ignore as gameplay dialogue/plot advancement trash, more than actual character dialogues.

I found the start of their reconciliation to be quite endearing. They’re not immediately getting all huggy and “all is forgiven!”, which is right, but it’s nice to see them building bridges after all these years.

I agree with the OP; show don’t tell, show don’t tell, holy crap don’t tell.

That’s all we get; Braham telling us how cool Eir is. It felt like the equivalent of someone telling a terrible joke and then insisting “It’s funnier if you were there”.