Guild Wars 2

While I’m not sure why Rytlock wouldn’t have wanted to break the curse before, the probable reason for him doing it now was laid out in the first quest of “Entanglement” – where you rummage through Scarlet’s basement.

There are an assortment of Lore giving objects within Scarlet’s basement. The was one object in specific which was out of place with regards to the story during that release, but now it’s relevance seems blatantly obvious.

One of the Lore books in Scarlet’s basement details a theory that GHOSTS are in actual fact MAGICAL CONSTRUCTS.

Mordremoth has been expanding towards major sources of magical energies since he reawakened – he likes to nom them. Mordremoth attacked the waypoint system and in another quest attacked a priory shipment of powerful magical artifacts (and substancially drained their magical energy).

Given that the trailer shows massive vines spouting up over ascalon, and the revealed fact that the hordes of Foefire ghosts are a massive concentration of magic, Rytlock is probably trying to release the ghosts to deprive Mordremoth of an extremely potent source of magic (which the Elder Dragon currently seems to be targeting).

Yeah, I had gathered as much. I think the really interesting thing to see will not be the WHY but rather the HOW and what happens after that. How will it impact Tyria, and especially Ascalon. The Charr have been in war for more than 250 years with the ghosts, how will it affect everything else..?

how about we team up w/ the ghosts and fight mordremoth? We shall call it Char-coal alliance

I really, really, really hope not.

From a pragmatical point of view, it would make all the other ED hold the idiot ball: none of them consume souls. Zhaitan could even snatch them from the afterlife yet he did not feast on them at all.

From the perspective concerning the story’s credibility, it would make Mordremoth far too OP and well on his way to become the next Villain Sue (he’s already suffering from a “benign” Scarlet Briar syndrome, mind you).

From the lore’s point of view, it would be a huge spit in the face for lore dealing with spirits and ghosts. Scholar Abel is greatly oversimplifying things. Souls are much more than just magic. Given how none of his peers believe his theses, I’m inclined to think he’s actually wrong.

And from a personal, emotional viewpoint: Leave. Those. Bloody. Ghosts. Alone!

Ascalon and its human population had enough. The charr invasion (the massacres at Nolani, Drascir, Surmia), the Searing, the second charr invasion and the first fall of Rin, the titans, constant harassment and raiding by charr warbands, the second fall of Rin, the Foefire, the centuries-long siege of Ebonhawke…

Those poor souls cursed by Adelbern’s mindless hatred suffered enough. To even top their torment by making a freaking Elder Dragon consume them for snacks is just REVOLTINGLY DISGUSTING.

Despite all this, I’m pretty sure this attempt by Rytlock will fail, and it will make things even worse for a time. Then in some later episode someone with Ascalonian royal blood in his/her veins will eventually lift the curse, truly freeing Ascalon from Adelbern’s madness.

But what you suggest goes beyond the definition of depravity. I’d hazard the guess that the writers are psychopaths if they pull this off.

The very last chance I’m willing to give to ANet and their writing depends entirely on how they handle this.

Thalador.4218:

Despite all this, I’m pretty sure this attempt by Rytlock will fail, and it will make things even worse for a time. Then in some later episode someone with Ascalonian royal blood in his/her veins will eventually lift the curse, truly freeing Ascalon from Adelbern’s madness.

People’s darkest fears realized…

Kasmeer: Hey! What does this sword do…
Marjory: Honey, I wouldn’t touch that if I were y….
Kasmeer: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!

~Kasmeer runs over and beheads the ghosts of King Adelbern and Duke Barradin and absorbs their ghostly powers.~

Kasmeer: I am Kasmeer, Queen of Ascalon. The Cursebreaker. For I am the Special Snowflake!!!

Wouldn’t be for teaming up with all the ghosts although I will admit that there are two non-primary race characters which I wish I could drag along into an active future. One is a Giant you escort through some caves in the Hirathi Hinterlands (i think) where he passes by the graves of all his friends – the only event in this game to draw the slightest bit of emotion from me. The other character is a ghost left behind by a pact soldier that was torn to shreds in a Mount Maelstrom swamp. You converse with her spirit under a ledge and then walk away. I did not feel right about just walking away there.

But onto factual stuff, and then pure speculation.

Zhaitan may have corrupted spirits. He claimed one of Grenth’s Reapers and the dead royal family he twisted into his “Eyes of Zhaitan” may also have been spirits. Another thing to note is the asuran take on magic. By their eternal alchemy, everything is magic. Magic just has a tendacy to change shape. If ghosts are magical constructs, so is everyhting else – ghosts may just be closer to being a purer source of magic and thus more easily absorbed.

Another interesting take on Mordremoth going for the ghost’s “Souls” would be the question of whether or not Mordremoth drains the souls of the creatures that Mordremoth personally strangles? The various vines dotting the landscape which hold aloft dead bodies, I’m left wondering if there is any chance that Mordremoth continues feeding off those corpses once they die? We know that Mordremoth is connected to the Sylvari dream. I’m left wondering if Mordremoth doesn’t perhaps absorb souls and store them in the Dream, where those souls are corrupted into the form of Sylvari souls and later released into the world through Mordremoth’s Lietenants?

PS. While I haven’t checked this personally, lots of people are saying that the prophesy about freeing the Ascalonian ghosts is different from the prophesy people keep quoting involving royal Ascalonian blood. Royal Ascalonian blood seems connected to releasing the blood shards, a seperate prophecy says that the ghosts can only be freed by a true ruler of Ascalon – which could be any ruler of Ascalon, even a ruler of the Char?

Erukk.1408:

Thalador.4218:

Despite all this, I’m pretty sure this attempt by Rytlock will fail, and it will make things even worse for a time. Then in some later episode someone with Ascalonian royal blood in his/her veins will eventually lift the curse, truly freeing Ascalon from Adelbern’s madness.

People’s darkest fears realized…

Kasmeer: Hey! What does this sword do…
Marjory: Honey, I wouldn’t touch that if I were y….
Kasmeer: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!

~Kasmeer runs over and beheads the ghosts of King Adelbern and Duke Barradin and absorbs their ghostly powers.~

Kasmeer: I am Kasmeer, Queen of Ascalon. The Cursebreaker. For I am the Special Snowflake!!!

I was imagining Marjory’s face during all of this and it was hilarious. xD

EragamerLG.2390:

Yeah, I had gathered as much. I think the really interesting thing to see will not be the WHY but rather the HOW and what happens after that. How will it impact Tyria, and especially Ascalon. The Charr have been in war for more than 250 years with the ghosts, how will it affect everything else..?

Well firstly you’d have the largest army in Tyria sitting around with not all that much to do. Oh sure they’ll still need to fight the Branded, the seperatists (who I never really though of as a massive threat) and the flame legion (who seems to have lost most of their leadership) but a pretty big chunk of them is going to be freed up. A bunch of battle hardened warmongers with nothing to do? Sure that will end just fine.

CureForLiving.5360:

EragamerLG.2390:

Yeah, I had gathered as much. I think the really interesting thing to see will not be the WHY but rather the HOW and what happens after that. How will it impact Tyria, and especially Ascalon. The Charr have been in war for more than 250 years with the ghosts, how will it affect everything else..?

Well firstly you’d have the largest army in Tyria sitting around with not all that much to do. Oh sure they’ll still need to fight the Branded, the seperatists (who I never really though of as a massive threat) and the flame legion (who seems to have lost most of their leadership) but a pretty big chunk of them is going to be freed up. A bunch of battle hardened warmongers with nothing to do? Sure that will end just fine.

Well, they’ll be able to wipe out the Elder Dragons and focus on them. After that… well, in GW3 I’m sure they’ll be back to an antagonist race.

As for mordy supposedly eating ghosts in the future I think its a good idea to see what exactly we think a “ghost” is. See in my experience ghosts are not so much souls as more the “memories” or the “imprints” of a soul that has already moved on.

I doubt the dragons can truly eat SOULS but the ghosts left behind in there wake held together by latent magical energy? THAT I could see. Would explain why a certain corpselike lizard god didnt swallow the entire planet in seconds upon awakening. While still allowing for mordys tendrils finding and homing in on a potentially hidden smorgasbord (probably kept partly hidden to the charr CONTINUOUSLY well….pruning…them back.

Uhm…Thalador?

Ascalon was Charr lands. They were violently pushed out by the humans. Its like if the Native Americans suddenly rose up and took their lands back here in the states. I’m sure there would be a ton of people going, “Well, it really was their land in the first place.” I just can’t be that sad about the human plight in this game. They kinda brought a lot of that on themselves.

And Ascalon belonged to other races before the charr violently claimed it. How long does it take for land seized to become the legitimate land of the claimants?

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Uhm…Thalador?

Here, educate yourself at your leisure.

Concerning who owned Ascalon or at least had greater claim to her…

…the charr propaganda of Ascalon being their territory from the get-go is the greatest BS I’ve ever heard in GW. Fact is, Ascalon NEVER belonged to the charr to begin with. They came in as conquerors, dominated and enslaved the primitive originals called the grawl, they fought and probably pushed out the dwarves whose empire in Ascalon had spanned from the southern Blazeridge to the northeast, and they fought the Forgotten who also had a presence on the northern shores of the Blazeridge and southern Ascalon. Out of those three, two were defenders or close allies of humanity. Forgotten were their shepherds for a time and assistants to the Six Gods, and the dwarves of old were on good terms with the humanity until their schism and civil war (mind you, Deldrimor still maintained good relationship with both Kryta and Ascalon). If anything, humanity took back what was originally the property of their allies, but those conceded to let them hold it and build their empire there.

Even though it was the Flame Legion that opted to use the Cauldron of Cataclysm, many charr still approve of using it as it “won” back their ill-earned and usurped lands – they approve of the mindless destruction that wrecked a country for decades and led to the slaughter of thousands of innocent, defenseless people.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/cutthroat/TeamKiel/page/2#post2429013

And let’s not forget that Ascalon was a dominantly human kingdom for 1,000+ years. Ascalonians created culture, built and maintained a flourishing civilization, cultivated the land while still managing to remain in balance with nature, constructed wonders… and then the charr came and destroyed it all.

I wonder how much the charr contributed to Ascalon’s welfare during the mere decades (if not a century at best) of their reign… slave pens for the grawl, slaughterhouses, arenas of bloodbath (both for themselves, their prisoners, as well as captured beasts), trampled, unattended fields.

Thalador.4218:

Those poor souls cursed by Adelbern’s mindless hatred suffered enough. To even top their torment by making a freaking Elder Dragon consume them for snacks is just REVOLTINGLY DISGUSTING.

. . .

But what you suggest goes beyond the definition of depravity. I’d hazard the guess that the writers are psychopaths if they pull this off.

Am I just really jaded? Because this doesn’t seem remotely depraved to me. For all we know, an elder dragon consuming a ghost’s magic could even free the ghost’s soul to continue on to the mists. And even if it doesn’t, magic ghosts getting eaten by an elder dragon after centuries of torment is positively tame compared to other stories I’ve read.

Anyway, regardless, you should knock it off with the armchair psychology. If writing stories you consider “depraved” is what makes one a psychopath, then a huge swath of the Earth’s population probably qualifies; especially given how low you seem to set the bar for “depravity”.

CureForLiving.5360:

EragamerLG.2390:

Yeah, I had gathered as much. I think the really interesting thing to see will not be the WHY but rather the HOW and what happens after that. How will it impact Tyria, and especially Ascalon. The Charr have been in war for more than 250 years with the ghosts, how will it affect everything else..?

Well firstly you’d have the largest army in Tyria sitting around with not all that much to do. Oh sure they’ll still need to fight the Branded, the seperatists (who I never really though of as a massive threat) and the flame legion (who seems to have lost most of their leadership) but a pretty big chunk of them is going to be freed up. A bunch of battle hardened warmongers with nothing to do? Sure that will end just fine.

That’s not what I meant exactly, I was thinking more along the lines of impact on present/future lore, how it would affect the races, and Ascalon, not in a gameplay way. But if you really wanna go there, The starting area + Diessa Plateau “could” get a revamp, all ghosts would dissapear, the hearts and events would also be revamped, and instead we’d have Mordrem to face. There’s lots of things that can happen to replace others in a “Living, Breathing World” – The Manifesto ANet(and us) is shaping up GW2 to become, the one from 2011.

It can’t be the Foefire curse Rytlock is breaking. The true king may be up to interpretation but whoever that is still needs both swords to break it. In the trailer I only see 1 sword even when the camera zooms out to reveal the area around Rytlock.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Uhm…Thalador?

Ascalon was Charr lands. They were violently pushed out by the humans. Its like if the Native Americans suddenly rose up and took their lands back here in the states. I’m sure there would be a ton of people going, “Well, it really was their land in the first place.” I just can’t be that sad about the human plight in this game. They kinda brought a lot of that on themselves.

My knowledge of American is limited by the few encounters I had with Americans (I live in Africa so having the first thing being told to me being: “I though there’d be more elephants in the streets” never gave me a very good opinion of the open minded nature of Americans. Better I guess than that Russian girl asking my why I’m white). Also lots and lots of Colbert Report. So I’m kinda under the impression that most American’s wouldn’t be fine with the native american’s rising up and retaking their land.

Genesis.8572:

And Ascalon belonged to other races before the charr violently claimed it. How long does it take for land seized to become the legitimate land of the claimants?

Given that such large swaths of the RL world is perpetually locked in endless war over this exact question, I don’t think anyone here has an answer.

Ghost are magical constructs. Ectoplasm formed and powered by a soul into a temporary physical form. Destroy the physical form, and the soul should go back to the mists.
But the curse bounds them to the land, so they ‘reset’ and come back later. Just like branded do.

But ghosts do not always form physical bodies. They sometimes possess things.

Barradin was one of these cases. He possesed his own statue in his vaults, until a charr hero broke it and released the ghost.

Barradin was the actual heir to the crown. Adelbern had royal blood, a descendant of Doric, but Barradin was the son of the previous king, and also a descendant of Doric.

They were going to solve all succession problems by marryng Althea and Rurik, their son and daughter, but that plan was cut by the Searing.

So Barradin remained the rightful heir.

And where’s Rytlock performing the release of the energy of the sword?

In Barradin’s vault, before Barradin’s statue.

Because you need the rightful heir to undo the curse.

^ this.
i have come to the same conclusion that barradin will play a part in this but, i think that barradin will actually possess rytlock and undo the curse. That way, it still follows the lines of the prophecy. Why is this issue only being dealt with now? because from the looks of things, mordremoth is alot bigger threat than zhaitan was/is and so the charr will realise they need to take more action against mordremoth than zhaitan and they cant as long as the ghosts are there on their doorstep.

The thought strikes me that Foefire ghosts might actually be mostly just constructs created from the imprints of the dead Ascalonians. There’s a distinct difference in personality between most of the Foefire ghosts, and ghosts we see elsewhere – other ghosts are still generally able to react in a sensible fashion to events around them (although they can get a little confused at times), while Foefire ghosts, with a very few exceptions (who may well have come back as ghosts without the Foefire) are basically just reliving the last days or years of their lives.

What if the Foefire ghosts aren’t actually insane as typically depicted, but continue in this behaviour because they’ve been programmed - programming that used the dead Ascalonians as a template, but has not actually bound their souls by the ritual? Throw in a few spirits that are strong enough that they were going to come back anyway to muddy the waters, and I can see people thinking that they’re all ghosts that are mostly insane, when the truth is it could well be an army of programmed holographic constructs lead by a relatively small number of genuine ghosts.

Which could put a whole new angle on Adelbern’s last act if this was something he knew when he invoked the Foefire. At the moment he did so, the people of Ascalon were dead anyway – if those that weren’t going to come back anyway actually had their souls released while facsimiles were created in their stead, this makes invoking the Foefire a bit less insane.

All that said… I really, really hope that it will turn out that if the ghosts are released either way, humans play a strong part in it and get some benefit out of it. Humans have been getting the short end of the stick storywise pretty much all along – it’s about time they get to be the ones actually doing things (particularly when it regards to their own history), rather than having things done to them while asura, charr and sylvari do all the important things.

Erukk.1408:

Thalador.4218:

Despite all this, I’m pretty sure this attempt by Rytlock will fail, and it will make things even worse for a time. Then in some later episode someone with Ascalonian royal blood in his/her veins will eventually lift the curse, truly freeing Ascalon from Adelbern’s madness.

People’s darkest fears realized…

Kasmeer: Hey! What does this sword do…
Marjory: Honey, I wouldn’t touch that if I were y….
Kasmeer: THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE!!

~Kasmeer runs over and beheads the ghosts of King Adelbern and Duke Barradin and absorbs their ghostly powers.~

Kasmeer: I am Kasmeer, Queen of Ascalon. The Cursebreaker. For I am the Special Snowflake!!!

This genuinely made me laugh.

I don’t think they are going so far as to break the curse.
Imagine all the rewriting! Half of the events, hearts and skill-challenges in Ascalon are based on the ghosts. Even though the vines spread through Ascalon, I doubt all the ghost-stuff on the multiple Ascalon-Maps will be rewritten or removed.
It will probably something like Orr: Although the curse/zhaitan is gone, the ghosts/risen still roam the land.

My biggest guess would be that Rytlocks tempering with the curse won’t lift it but will make the ghosts recognize dragon-minions as a bigger threat than whatever living being may roam their lands.

Gerrand.3085:

But onto factual stuff, and then pure speculation.

Zhaitan may have corrupted spirits. He claimed one of Grenth’s Reapers and the dead royal family he twisted into his “Eyes of Zhaitan” may also have been spirits. Another thing to note is the asuran take on magic. By their eternal alchemy, everything is magic. Magic just has a tendacy to change shape. If ghosts are magical constructs, so is everyhting else – ghosts may just be closer to being a purer source of magic and thus more easily absorbed.

FALSE. Zhaitan never had grenth’s reapers. He had the high priest of the temple, who Grenth sent a Reaper to RECLAIM. Though the Reaper was weakened and unable to do it personally, we step in for him. (Personal story).

PS. While I haven’t checked this personally, lots of people are saying that the prophesy about freeing the Ascalonian ghosts is different from the prophesy people keep quoting involving royal Ascalonian blood. Royal Ascalonian blood seems connected to releasing the blood shards, a seperate prophecy says that the ghosts can only be freed by a true ruler of Ascalon – which could be any ruler of Ascalon, even a ruler of the Char?

That legend is that a true heir of DORIC’s bloodline would be able to release the foefire by taking the other blade (Rurik’s), to the heart of the foefire and doing a ritual.

My take? Rytlock may be doing something to actually kitten off the foefire ghosts, and direct them AGAINST the vines. Because note he’s at Barridan’s tomb, NOT Ascalon City. Also the fact he isn’t of Doric’s line at all :P.

tekfan.3179:

I don’t think they are going so far as to break the curse.
Imagine all the rewriting! Half of the events, hearts and skill-challenges in Ascalon are based on the ghosts. Even though the vines spread through Ascalon, I doubt all the ghost-stuff on the multiple Ascalon-Maps will be rewritten or removed.
It will probably something like Orr: Although the curse/zhaitan is gone, the ghosts/risen still roam the land.

My biggest guess would be that Rytlocks tempering with the curse won’t lift it but will make the ghosts recognize dragon-minions as a bigger threat than whatever living being may roam their lands.

Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey…Stuff

Kalavier.1097:

That legend is that a true heir of DORIC’s bloodline would be able to release the foefire by taking the other blade (Rurik’s), to the heart of the foefire and doing a ritual.

My take? Rytlock may be doing something to actually kitten off the foefire ghosts, and direct them AGAINST the vines. Because note he’s at Barridan’s tomb, NOT Ascalon City. Also the fact he isn’t of Doric’s line at all :P.

Not quite. The legend is that if either sword, Magdaer or Sohothin, returns to Ascalon City in “the hands of the rightful king of Ascalon,” the ghosts will be laid to rest.

Hopefully we’ll find out the full meaning today!

Now we know the true reason for Charr Heavy Ascended helmet’s appearance… Rytlock, New King of Ascalon 4evah.

Thalador.4218:

From the lore’s point of view, it would be a huge spit in the face for lore dealing with spirits and ghosts.
…
The very last chance I’m willing to give to ANet and their writing depends entirely on how they handle this.

takes two drinks

CureForLiving.5360:

My knowledge of American is limited by the few encounters I had with Americans (I live in Africa so having the first thing being told to me being: “I though there’d be more elephants in the streets” never gave me a very good opinion of the open minded nature of Americans. Better I guess than that Russian girl asking my why I’m white). Also lots and lots of Colbert Report. So I’m kinda under the impression that most American’s wouldn’t be fine with the native american’s rising up and retaking their land.

Popular culture likes to paint Africa as still being effectively stone-age. The 5 o’clock news mainly focusing on terrorists in the backwater villages as opposed to life in the cities doesn’t really help.