Guild Wars 2

Total 30 runs now, (19 succesful, 11 fails) and one coat as drop. I hope it doesn’t take another 30 tries to get the third.. :P

RNG ignores effort, nobody likes being ignored for the effort they put in (unless they have some sort of neglect fetish), address that and it’ll make RNG more tolerable.

Implement something that increases the chance for a coat chest drop after every successful run to limit the number of times a person has to redo the event (basically validate gambler’s fallacy); perhaps it could be an invisible buff with a 24 hour timer that stacks in intensity, each stack raising the chance of the coat drop, or just a counter (like Perseverance) that “cashes in” and spawns the coat box once it hits a cap.

And if there’s already such a system in place, perhaps set the threshold for awarding a second “guaranteed” coat box to something lower than 30+ runs.

I didn’t understand the fuss around these carapace coat boxes until i checked this topic. I did the vinewrath event 3 times and got 3 boxes so i honestly thought it was a guaranteed drop from the chest. Seems like i was just incredibly lucky, lol….

DogTrainer.6038:

I think maybe Gaile is mistaken, and the RNG is not functioning properly. Everyone who talks about drop rate either claims an enormously high rate or a completely barren rate.

Err, that couldn’t possibly be because those with less outlier-like results have no reason to post about their entirely unremarkable drop rate? Here’s another data point then: I got my first random coat box dropped on my 3rd Vinewrath event. Then I spent basically the whole weekend in the Silverwastes with nothing to show for it (except a Glove box from one of the four bandit chests in the room). Make that a dozen Vinewrath events or so, all but one of them successful. Then I got my 2nd random coat box drop late Sunday evening. Which comes out to a drop rate that looks fairly reasonable and not outrageously common or rare.

That said, yes, I am quite relieved that I have all three coat skins now. Without that particular pressure (and no overly large interest in the Luminescent armor skins, and hence the organ parts), I’m looking forward to doing the Silverwastes events in a rather more relaxed state of mind in the future.

DogTrainer.6038:

Aside from that, our issue and our feedback isn’t about drop rate, it’s about making the piece RNG at all.

Agreed. It would be nice if there were an alternative way of earning that piece in addition to the random drop. Especially since there is already so much RNG in acquiring the mordrem organs.

I dit about 25 runs for the last chest. And it will not drop.
6000+ crests and dozens of organs, I got chest keys for the next decade … but all i need is this stupid chest :/

It’s not that random, I got 2 already and I really dont play that much. I think I did 5 total lane fights. But of course, personal drop rates dont count for all. :/ Hope you guys get it soon.

Yes the chest drop rate is definitely to low, I would like to know what the actual % for the drop though.

Spent the first 3 days doing nothing but Vinewrath and every day since i have done about 5-10 daily after that, i will eat my shoes if the total number is under 50 runs. And still i need that last chest!

Funny thing is that if i would have gotten the chest i would have continued doing the boss since the rewards are decent and i like the fight, but atm i will NEVER set foot in Silverwastes after my achievement is done

Im not saying that we should be given stuff for free but considering its tied to an achievement that so far has been about alot of small parts that has been low on rng but time consuming, I dont see how they can put the last part behind this brick wall of RNG

OK, let’s math this out, folks.

Assume that a carapace coat box is a perfect sphere of uniform density a drop rate of one in ten, i.e. on average a carapace coat box drops every ten times a player opens that big chest, which would mean that on average people would have to do around 20 successful Vinewrath events to get the two remaining carapace coat skins. Disclaimer: I have no idea whether that is the actual drop rate, I’m just pulling a more or less reasonable looking number out of thin air.)

So, the folks who got two boxes dropped in their first two Vinewrath events? That’s one in every hundred players, so that probably happened to dozens, maybe hundreds, of players. Three drops on three events? One-in-a-thousand chance, i.e. it’s bound to have happened a couple times, maybe a couple dozens times, depending on how many people are doing Silverwaste events right now.

Not getting a single drop in 20 successful events? That’s 0.9^20=0.12 – a 12% chance. That’s every 8th player.
Nothing in 30 events? 4% chance, every 25th player.
Nothing in 40 events? 1.5% chance, one player in 70 has this much bad luck.
Nothing in 50 events? .5% chance, one in 200 players. Note that this is only half as unlikely as getting two drops in a row! So there should be half as many people with 50 dry runs as there are people who did two events and had all carapace coat skins unlocked.

The actual drop rate may be higher or lower than that, but I don’t think it’s by all that much. Almost certainly not by enough to make that little calculation completely irrelevant.

shinreigari.7318:

I didn’t understand the fuss around these carapace coat boxes until i checked this topic. I did the vinewrath event 3 times and got 3 boxes so i honestly thought it was a guaranteed drop from the chest. Seems like i was just incredibly lucky, lol….

My wife got two coat boxes her first time (the achievement, plus one from the chest) and then her third coat box on her following attempt. That’s all three boxes in two Vinewrath fights.

I’ve completed six so far and gotten only the first achievement one. Others have had it much worse. I know that RNG is RNG and all that, but this just isn’t fun.

I got way too many coats, I wish ARenanet would remove it from the loot table. I have an extra 6 coats makes me mad.

I have to chime in with the many here, in that the low drop rate really isn’t good.

In itself, a low drop rate might be ok, even though my 30-ish runs without any drop makes it painful. Imagine however, 6 months from now, when “no one” goes to Silverwastes anymore; making a successful Vinewrath run will be a nightmare, let alone 30-40-50 runs to get all the boxes. That could take hundreds of attempts. Effectively it probably means that most who don’t get the skins now will never be able to get them.

I Think that a low drop rate should be for events you can do relatively easy, and probably doesn’t require huge groups of people. The mega events like Vinewrath should have a high drop rate, possibly even a guaranteed drop, just to make them possible to get when the event is not longer the “mot du jour”.

I really don’t like it the way it is. I came home late after a long day, wanting to give it a try. I joined Silverwastes and the progress was around 0%, so I started using the lfg tool to find a server with more progress like suggested around the forums. I found a few groups popping up but being full already and disappearing. So that didn’t work, spent around 10 minutes refreshing the list.

Then I noticed the progress bar starting to move so I joined in to help for 50 minutes, it was almost done (ready to start the 2nd and last event before the Vinewrath) and I got kicked out. The server probably dropped players due to the insane amount of people wanting to join it once it’s almost completed… Now I’m really tired and starting to feel ill again with 0 progress in game. Wonder if I will ever be able to get the coat box… let alone play the Vinewrath event even once.

This sort of mirrors my experience with edge of the mists lately too. Almost every time I want to join it for a little leveling I face a map 100% captured by another team with no commander or players (apart from 3-5 people afk:ing) from my team.

after not getting a coat for the last couple days of trying, I decided to keep track of my attempts today. So far, 6 tries in 4 hours. This is not fun especially when I am hearing about other people having more than they need. RNG is a bad design and I am confused about why it is still being used like this.

I dced (again) just before the Vinewrath event started. Logged back in immediately but on an empty map. It would be great if players who dc or log out for any reason had their spot in the map reserved for 5 mins or even less so their effort is not in vain.

Naracion.6597:

after not getting a coat for the last couple days of trying, I decided to keep track of my attempts today. So far, 6 tries in 4 hours. This is not fun especially when I am hearing about other people having more than they need. RNG is a bad design and I am confused about why it is still being used like this.

Be glad you had the chance to at least try, especially 6 times in 4 hours. I got to try 0 in 1 hour.

Underdark.3726:

I dced (again) just before the Vinewrath event started. Logged back in immediately but on an empty map. It would be great if players who dc or log out for any reason had their spot in the map reserved for 5 mins or even less so their effort is not in vain.

I know that feeling and I believe it’s the servers’ fault for those DCs, making it feel worse not being my own fault even.

So … i am done with this s…

It will not drop. Fine! Keep it! Spend hours over hours for nothing. Bought anything i can for the millions of crests. More then 250 keys and 120 shovels in inventory.
That is really frustrating!

Over 20 runs and still no chest box, gg. Make it possible to buy at vendor pls.

OmniPotentes.4817:

Did you guys complete the story before you started farming the final event like there is no tomorrow? I completed all achi’s before I did the final event and got 3 boxes out of 3 attempts. Might be RNG, might not be.

This right here. The first two times I faced this thing, I was fresh from the final story boss on different characters. I got a coat box each time. Haven’t gotten one since.

DaShi.1368:

I wish there was a way to trade in boxes for armor you already have the full set of or don’t want for boxes of armor sets that you do want. For example, I went and bought my last carapace glove to complete the collection and the next bandit chest gave me a carapace glove box. I feel like I just wasted 1000 bandit crests. ;(

Acquisition methods for these things are not shown to be uniform. A handy list, so you know whether to keep banging your head against a wall:

Drops (includes bosses, but mostly from chests): Carapace Shoulder Box (champs), Carapace Coat Box (vinewrath), Carapace Glove Box (chests/pods), Carapace Boot Box (chests)

Story: Carapace Headgear Box (repeatable), Carapace Shoulder Box (repeatable), Carapace Glove Box (one-time), Carapace Legging Box (repeatable)

PvP: Carapace Glove Box (repeatable)

Buyable: Carapace Boot Box (requires Requisition Order), all others but coat (freely)

Sariel V.7024:

PvP: Carapace Glove Box (repeatable)

Correction, one time only.

Got my last box at kill #41 , the Vine event is ok with decent loot and it’s fun … in a certain way the RNG is ok for the box .. The real problem is the time it take to fight the vine , i mean the map hopping via the LFG tool is in itself is RNG for trying to get into into a good organised map .. and the vine kill it’s not even 100% kill .. sometime the megaserver will put you in a dead map …

Keep the RNG but put the vine fight on a schedule , it will ease a lot of issue

I like the in game acquisition, and the other boxes all gave a way around pure RNG, but the coat is really getting on my nerves. I have the first one because of the achievement award, but with a week of doing the Vinewrath event I still haven’t had a single drop.

Just thought I post my exp with the rng here, and I hope others might do so too so that we can have a feel of the rng.
Coat box 1 – First run (guaranteed)
Coat box 2 – 22nd successful run
Coat box 3 – 24th successful run
No further coat boxes in following successful runs.

I admit – the map and bosses are quite enjoyable now that I don’t have the stress of getting a coat box. Will probably continue to visit Silverwastes and Vinewrath these next few weeks as well.

Finally got my 3rd coat yesterday. Total 40 tries (28 kills, 12 fails).

Well the rng is just luck really :/
Coat box 1 – First run (guaranteed)
Coat box 2 – First run
Coat Box 3 – 4th run
Coat Box 4 – 6th run
Coat box 5 – 7th run
and so on…

i have done vinewrath 15 times and already got 7 coat boxes…
but the boss is enjoyable so i will keep doing him for crests to get the minis

now getting the EYES is another matter… still missing two…
Anet should make some sort of black market where we could buy eyes and kidneys for our shady purposes… XD

This has been mentioned and I want to confirm, Hero of the wastes buff works. I had over 20 attempts without buff, I got the last 2 boxes in 5 runs with buff, so you stay in the same map and do events from the beginning. I know it’s a time consuming but worth trying.

Maybe you just stop regreting yourself for a moment and think about word “rarity” and its meaning? At my oppinion, drop chance must be much lower, than now, because normally i want at most to possess things, that other people don’t have, but want to. And the complexity by obtaining such items is direct that, what make it “rare”. Maybe i’m just a child of other MMO-type, there are items, not only beautiful, but powerful, that exists as single copy and only one lucky guy can make boast of it. So, it’s just my opinnion as well.

Muffy.8569:

Maybe you just stop regreting yourself for a moment and think about word “rarity” and its meaning? At my oppinion, drop chance must be much lower, than now, because normally i want at most to possess things, that other people don’t have, but want to. And the complexity by obtaining such items is direct that, what make it “rare”. Maybe i’m just a child of other MMO-type, there are items, not only beautiful, but powerful, that exists as single copy and only one lucky guy can make boast of it. So, it’s just my opinnion as well.

But it isn’t a “rare” reward. Rare rewards are fractal skins as well as the weapons in TA. Those are really rare as well as precursors. You get the rare (yellow) stuff everywhere and can buy bags and other yellow skins easily, after every boss you get yellows. Nothing is rare about yellow skins. Just unneccessary RNG.
Noone is kittened about not getting a fractal skin, TA or a Tequatls Hoard after finishing those things a few times. (It becomes different after a few hundred attempts…)

The system in place just kills the fun for this boss for everyone who’s unlucky. It becomes a chore, which makes people afk on maps.

Muffy.8569:

Maybe i’m just a child of other MMO-type, there are items, not only beautiful, but powerful, that exists as single copy and only one lucky guy can make boast of it.

Unlucky, you mean. Most of those types of games featured also open world pvp, so eventually every such “lucky” person ended up getting ganked and their precious kitten (and all their other stuff) stolen.
I’m really glad we don’t have this here.

LunarNacht.8913:

But it isn’t a “rare” reward.

Isnt it? 5 pages of pure crying. A little random chance and BOOM! I don’t see the problem at all, if you really want it – you will make 100+ runs and become it soon or late.

The system in place just kills the fun for this boss for everyone who’s unlucky. It becomes a chore, which makes people afk on maps.

You have very strange idea about “fun” and “challange”. Become all boxes at one will kill fun much faster. )

At this moment, Carapace coat Boxes are dropping too few. It makes players feel stressed and it makes players hate this new event more and more. It does not feeling any rewarding when player don’t get even one Carapace armor box after hard work. It feels like they have been betrayed by game.

Situation at this moment how you can get Carapace coat box now from Vinewrath chest:
Randomly dropped from vinewrath chest, mostly you don’t have any Carapace Armor Box. Most of the time those players who are victims of bad luck feels really frustrated. It feels like that Vinewrath Chest is not rewarding at all. They feels betrayed by game.

This is my suggestion how Vinewrath Chest reward could work better:

1) All these Carapace armor boxes should be placed in their own table:

• Carapace Headgear Box,
• Carapace Shoulder Box,
• Carapace Coat Box,
• Carapace Glove Box,
• Carapace Legging Box,
• Carapace Boot Box.

2) There should be built some logic behind how that Vinewrath Chest is working. This logic would check out does specific account have all carapace armor pieces collected. And this logic should work like this:

Game check out does account have all Carapace armor pieces collected already

• TRUE = all Carapace armor pieces are collected, droppings are working like at this moment
• FALSE= all Carapace armor pieces are not collected, one dropping is taken from Carapace Armor Box table randomly, and rest droppings are taken from other rng table.

So those accounts what are still missing one or more Carapace Armor pieces from it’s collection, will be guarantee to have one Carapace Armor Box from Vinewrath Chest.

How it helps for situation:

• It gives more hope those players who are beaten up by lady luck
• It feels more rewarding, when you get guarantee to have one Carapace Armor Box every time from chest until account’s collection is done; even that Carapace Armor Box is not right one, next one might be that what you are hunting.
• Event don’t feel so frustrating anymore
• Everybody will get their Carapace armors collected

I am sorry my bad English, but English is not my native language.

Muffy.8569:

A little random chance and BOOM! I don’t see the problem at all, if you really want it – you will make 100+ runs and become it soon or late.

I would prefer to spend my time with more profit but not on this Vinewrath boss. It was fun at the first times but no longer. I’ve completed all achivements and can freely play without any doubt of losing something interesting via SW location.

For those who would gladly make 100+ runs to obtain something – there’s Fractal Dungeon with it’s unic weapon skins.

They should just make the carapace armors available just like the glorious track in pvp.

“They should”, “betrayed by game”, “bad luck”, “should work like this”, “Everybody will get..”, “don’t feel so frustrating anymore” … all this sounds SOOO pathetic and poor.
I don’t know how this rightly sounds in english, but “I see the goal, don’t see any obstacles”.

Muffy.8569:

“They should”, “betrayed by game”, “bad luck”, “should work like this”, “Everybody will get..”, “don’t feel so frustrating anymore” … all this sounds SOOO pathetic and poor.
I don’t know how this rightly sounds in english, but “I see the goal, don’t see any obstacles”.

I am sorry, I don’t understand what you meant about this. Should I change the grammar of those words for which you have quote?

No, he’s just saying that everything is fine and the main problem – players themselves. And if RNG is absolutely random situations, then the game is truely fine. In our case it’s just simple trolling without any further suggestions ’cause the main reason to exclude such RNG situations in future. (in my homble opinion)

Make the coats buyable for 3000 crests and only have them buyable after a successful Vinewrath. Boom, done. Not that difficult a concept. The chance of getting a coat from Vinewrath is so high (well, for me) that it honestly shouldn’t cause any harm to make them buyable. The worst that could happen is people who do it that way and end up doing Vinewrath more times may eventually end up having buyers’ remorse.

Yeah, trolling – new best cross functional word to execrate opposite opinion. ^)

Muffy.8569:

Yeah, trolling – new best cross functional word to execrate opposite opinion. ^)

Nah, its the way how your opinion can be perceived. My point is that RNG looks fine but to much RNG is realy bad! Even if i already got the Luminescence gear i hope “Carapace Coat Box” situations won’t happen again.

Muffy.8569:

LunarNacht.8913:

But it isn’t a “rare” reward.

Isnt it? 5 pages of pure crying. A little random chance and BOOM! I don’t see the problem at all, if you really want it – you will make 100+ runs and become it soon or late.

The system in place just kills the fun for this boss for everyone who’s unlucky. It becomes a chore, which makes people afk on maps.

You have very strange idea about “fun” and “challange”. Become all boxes at one will kill fun much faster. )

You have strange ideas about fun and challenge as well, if you think that doing the same bossfight 100 times just to get one drop (that someone else got at first try) is either fun or challenging.
That aspect of this encounter soured it to me completely, even though i got my boxes already.

The worst part is seeing someone type, “That’s my 8th coat box” while you’re still waiting for the 1st one(not including the automatic one). I have yet to see a coat box drop for me after at least ten tries/successes on the vine event. At least with the kidney agony I get a part drop no matter what, even if it isn’t what I’m looking for. Not saying I want 10 glove boxes – had too many of those from the nightmare chest.

I love the vine event – just hate the way the coat boxes don’t drop more evenly to players who actually need them. A guild friend of mine says that after he got 2 on his first go(auto one included) and got the last one he needed shortly thereafter, he’s gotten even more, more frequently. Please, ANeT, let the drop happen for those who need it before giving out more to those who don’t need and mostly don’t want it.

Heibi.4251:

The worst part is seeing someone type, “That’s my 8th coat box” while you’re still waiting for the 1st one(not including the automatic one). I have yet to see a coat box drop for me after at least ten tries/successes on the vine event. At least with the kidney agony I get a part drop no matter what, even if it isn’t what I’m looking for. Not saying I want 10 glove boxes – had too many of those from the nightmare chest.

I love the vine event – just hate the way the coat boxes don’t drop more evenly to players who actually need them. A guild friend of mine says that after he got 2 on his first go(auto one included) and got the last one he needed shortly thereafter, he’s gotten even more, more frequently. Please, ANeT, let the drop happen for those who need it before giving out more to those who don’t need and mostly don’t want it.

I enjoy the vine event as well, but agree, RNG is extremely frustrating. It took me a 3 day weekend of grinding that event to get two coat boxes (had gotten my automatic drop one earlier in the week). Strange thing was, on what was to be my very last run of that weekend netted me my last coat box PLUS 2 glove boxes from the nightmare chest. (had one set of gloves from story).
My husband on the other hand was getting drops of gloves, boot or coat on a more consistent basis.

People only speak when they have good or bad luck, no one tells you they broke even at the casino.
I agree its frustrating but its not going to be bugged rng – its just regular rng with skewd reporting.

Muffy.8569:

Maybe you just stop regreting yourself for a moment and think about word “rarity” and its meaning? At my oppinion, drop chance must be much lower, than now, because normally i want at most to possess things, that other people don’t have, but want to. And the complexity by obtaining such items is direct that, what make it “rare”.

May I ask how many kills it roughly took you to get your two additional boxes? It would help – at least me – to add some perspective to your opinion.

Until then, I will limit my reply to a comment about status and rarity:

How exactly would wearing the chest-piece give you any kind of status in its current implementation – or even if it was much rarer?

Do you believe that I would look at your char and think “wow he got that chest-piece, he must have personally commanded the entire map by itself and due to his exclusive heroics and unbelievable skill got the other players through the event and rightfully got the skin to drop”?

Sorry if I’m about to burst any bubbles here, but I would much rather think: “great, another simpleton lucker who /afk’d till the breach, then died during the first few seconds of the vine-champ-encounter cause he had no clue what was going on, yet leech’d his way back in time to luck on RNG and get a box while other people who put far more effort into it went home empty-handed”.

If there was indeed any complexity or at least some personal effort involved, I would see your point about rarity. As it is atm, I do not.

Furthermore, this is part of a collection. From a consistency point of view, I would appreciate if all pieces had similar (as in: multiple) ways of being obtainable. As it is now, I feel that this is a rather cheap method to keep players busy with this map.

Ilmatar.6709:

At this moment, Carapace coat Boxes are dropping too few. It makes players feel stressed and it makes players hate this new event more and more. It does not feeling any rewarding when player don’t get even one Carapace armor box after hard work. It feels like they have been betrayed by game.

Situation at this moment how you can get Carapace coat box now from Vinewrath chest:
Randomly dropped from vinewrath chest, mostly you don’t have any Carapace Armor Box. Most of the time those players who are victims of bad luck feels really frustrated. It feels like that Vinewrath Chest is not rewarding at all. They feels betrayed by game.

This is my suggestion how Vinewrath Chest reward could work better:

1) All these Carapace armor boxes should be placed in their own table:

• Carapace Headgear Box,
• Carapace Shoulder Box,
• Carapace Coat Box,
• Carapace Glove Box,
• Carapace Legging Box,
• Carapace Boot Box.

2) There should be built some logic behind how that Vinewrath Chest is working. This logic would check out does specific account have all carapace armor pieces collected. And this logic should work like this:

Game check out does account have all Carapace armor pieces collected already

• TRUE = all Carapace armor pieces are collected, droppings are working like at this moment
• FALSE= all Carapace armor pieces are not collected, one dropping is taken from Carapace Armor Box table randomly, and rest droppings are taken from other rng table.

So those accounts what are still missing one or more Carapace Armor pieces from it’s collection, will be guarantee to have one Carapace Armor Box from Vinewrath Chest.

How it helps for situation:

• It gives more hope those players who are beaten up by lady luck
• It feels more rewarding, when you get guarantee to have one Carapace Armor Box every time from chest until account’s collection is done; even that Carapace Armor Box is not right one, next one might be that what you are hunting.
• Event don’t feel so frustrating anymore
• Everybody will get their Carapace armors collected

I am sorry my bad English, but English is not my native language.

This is good. The current RNG system is really bad designed. It awards players who already got them more the t hsoe who haven’t.
I think this carapce box thing is very similar to loot lottery in other MMOs when you need to be fast to click “I want” or you will be at the mercy of ohers.

I’ve done VR maybe 15-20 times and I’ve gotten 9 coat boxes. Wish I could share them with all of you. I had a streak of 5 or 6 coat boxes in a row. Another guildie of mine said he lost track of how many he’s gotten past 10.

Just did 6 more vines today – ZERO coat boxes. So I’ve done it about 20+ times now and only received the automatic one. Oh, and zero kidney today as well. So. like people say, the ones that don’t need them get them like a waterfall, while the rest are getting ZERO. Thanks, RNG.

Why the hassle? Only the light armor looks great. The heavy: well shiny, but there are other heavy chest armors which can replace this easily; the medium – just ugly.

Albadaran.1283:

Why the hassle? Only the light armor looks great. The heavy: well shiny, but there are other heavy chest armors which can replace this easily; the medium – just ugly.

Some people like to have complete sets. For me, this is an achievable in-game armor set and the game play to get it is fun. Also, I want the title you get for unlocking all Luminescent pieces, even if I may never equip them all. (Not a fan of any of the Carapace hats, even the heavy is not to my taste and it at least isn’t two pastries stuck to my cheekbones. But most of the Light Carapace female version is glorious).

I completed the collection because:

1. An Ascended chest will save me a lot of money in my climb to Ascended armor for my Light armor wearers.

2. “Light in the Darkness” is an awesome title.

3. The sweet, sweet AP.

4. I enjoy ticking things off a list to do.

Anyway, I do agree that the Coat Boxes should be made available for purchase for Bandit Crests too. I suspect that ANet will include them when they release the guaranteed extractors for Kidneys/Eyes.