Guild Wars 2

It would be really nice if NPCs like your fellow Dragons Watch members weren’t so easily killed. This has been an issue since the original personal story, and it’s only gotten more ridiculous as we have continued with the living world. How are we supposed to take the characters seriously if they die to everything we fight? I’m not saying they should be able to solo things if we just decide to stand around, but I also shouldn’t have to revive them after every fight and have them go down after less than 5% of an encounter. We know that they can be made useful, such as they were in the last fight for HoT, and having them be this stupid and useless during the normal story steps is just disappointing.

Hmm weird since Living World Season 2 I have yet to see the NPC died, not even once, and Marjory was quite helpful as she keep reviving me quite fast in the last chapter.

Play the second step in Out of the Shadows and tell me how many times you had to revive Rytlock. I did it twice then stopped bothering, and that was before the 2nd ‘wave’ of enemies (if you can call those waves). And that was a super easy fight. I had similar experiences throughout LS2 and HoT (and that’s not counting the times when my companions didn’t join me for the fight for various not-entirely-sensible reasons like the vinewrath fight near the end of LS2).

(sorry for the oblique language, trying not to spoil anything)

I would love it if some just stand around.
Rytlock towards the end was more interested in the door, instead of “smiting enemies”

Yeah, Rytlock dies almost during every chak wave … that’s just silly. And this happened with 4 of my characters so far.

And why do i have to carry a bunch of NPCs through story instances when all they do is stand next to an enemy … yes, just standing around. Even when they get hit by them they won’t fight back. I guess it’s time for peace in Tyria!
That confessors fortress was a “solo show”. Soooooooo much fun and very ‘fast’ accomplished! :p

Though, this is an old bug …

Hmm weird I never had any of the NPC’s die. They enemies were much too pathetic to have a chance to kill them.

What sort of gear are you running? You might want to swap into some more damage gear. The enemies shouldn’t have enough time to kill the NPC’s if you are progressing at a normal rate.

My companions don’t die at all, in fact, the mobs simply ignore them as if they were never there — they don’t move or do anything either. :/

I basically soloed all the fights all the way to the end.

The only way I kept Rytlock alive was to stay near him the whole fight. He definitely died way too easy for the hero he is suppose to be.

I had issues with the golems since the NPCs ganged up on the first one and would not leave that one. I figured out the mechanics on the second golem (cross the beam!) and had to kill it by myself and then go back to get the first golem.

I would to see the NPCs be a bit more durable or at least follow you to what you are attacking.

At least we can mock Uncle Trombone for dying to a bug now.

I wont revive a npc in the middle of a fight (unless TOTALLY necessary) ever since I had to deal with Mr. Logan Dingleberry dying all the time in Caduceus manor. Very first time I had tried a dungeon and I was disgusted with how useless he was.

In the last story step for Out of the Shadows, Rytlock and Marjery LITERALLY STAND THERE AND DO NOTHING during all the boss fights. This is ridiculous; there isn’t even something blocking them from reaching the fight or keeping them busy like in LS2. They are literally in the middle of the battles doing nothing and being ignored by the enemies. It’s completely immersion breaking and non-nonsensical.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

In the last story step for Out of the Shadows, Rytlock and Marjery LITERALLY STAND THERE AND DO NOTHING during all the boss fights. This is ridiculous; there isn’t even something blocking them from reaching the fight or keeping them busy like in LS2. They are literally in the middle of the battles doing nothing and being ignored by the enemies. It’s completely immersion breaking and non-nonsensical.

Must have been a glitch, they fought with me when I did it

I had the same thing happen to me, threw me a bit out of immersion as well.

Seems like a bug.

They fought for me in the instance. They actually managed to hold their own relatively well and take out the weaker White Mantle whilst I dealt with Adrienne.

I just had the same issue. Marjory stands by the door doing her “idling” animation the entire time. I’m not good enough at this game to complete it without their help.

JayMack.8295:

Seems like a bug.

They fought for me in the instance. They actually managed to hold their own relatively well and take out the weaker White Mantle whilst I dealt with Adrienne.

Was the opposite for me, they were taken out easily, and I had to do all the heavy lifting…again. Surprisingly Caithe was the one companion who stayed alive (in her instance), and brought me back up when we were fighting those evil swords.

RyuDragnier.9476:

JayMack.8295:

Seems like a bug.

They fought for me in the instance. They actually managed to hold their own relatively well and take out the weaker White Mantle whilst I dealt with Adrienne.

Was the opposite for me, they were taken out easily, and I had to do all the heavy lifting…again. Surprisingly Caithe was the one companion who stayed alive (in her instance), and brought me back up when we were fighting those evil swords.

Maybe the reason the companions survive better for some players is that some have builds that help their party members by removing conditions or giving extra healing, etc.

I had them do both. I fought in the last instance the first time and Rytlock just stood around and the other two helped. I had the power go out on me so I didn’t finish, and the second time I went through, they all fought.

Should I post to the bug forum? I don’t want to get in trouble for duplication…

This isn’t just an issue in LS3. Go back to the personal story and watch none of your allies do any amount of damage to enemies in the later story steps, while the entire ‘party’ wipes repeatedly. In most instances during the personal story, you do more damage in 1 attack then any NPCs who are with you will do to all the enemies in every fight in the entire instance. The NPCs do not scale AT ALL as far as I can tell through the course of the personal story.

If they aren’t fighting at all, then that might be a bug. I’ve noticed them standing around doing nothing once or twice, but most of the time they’re at least attacking stuff (albeit doing pitiful damage, since they want you the player to handle the enemies and not just let your allies do everything).

Its something that a LOT of games nowadays that utilize friendly AI / parties do, actually. Scale the damage your companions do to trivial levels so that the players have to handle the game rather than just letting the AI beat it for them.

Its not something I’ve ever been a fan of personally, but I can see the reasoning for it to an extent. Actually making your allies useful is a fine line between making them too good so the player feels uneccessary and having them be just useful enough to help but not carry. Its a difficult balance to achieve I imagine, and so many developers just throw up their hands and say “Whatever, better to have useless allies than ones that are too good and make the player feel unimportant”.

Electro.4173:

Its something that a LOT of games nowadays that utilize friendly AI / parties do, actually. Scale the damage your companions do to trivial levels so that the players have to handle the game rather than just letting the AI beat it for them.

Its not something I’ve ever been a fan of personally, but I can see the reasoning for it to an extent. Actually making your allies useful is a fine line between making them too good so the player feels uneccessary and having them be just useful enough to help but not carry. Its a difficult balance to achieve I imagine, and so many developers just throw up their hands and say “Whatever, better to have useless allies than ones that are too good and make the player feel unimportant”.

Or just make it so the allies can’t die or have the HP equivalent to Champion monsters. That makes them useful without having them seem like utter trash companions.

Electro.4173:

Its something that a LOT of games nowadays that utilize friendly AI / parties do, actually. Scale the damage your companions do to trivial levels so that the players have to handle the game rather than just letting the AI beat it for them.

There is a HUGE difference between the NPCs “handling it for me” and the NPCs doing nothing at all. I don’t see anyone asking for the NPCs to do the instances for them so I’m not sure what your point is…

I noticed also, if you are very strong player the NPCs die easily. When I died a lot or been weak the NPCs are more stronger, stayed alive and help a lot. (in LS3 story)
I did many time the Living Story Season 3 and noticed difference between NPCs action with difference profession. Anyone else noticed that?

Maybe they could at least cheer for you instead of standing around completely idle, like you can cheer for instance owner if you do some parts of personal story in a party

The only mmo where I’ve seen NPCs companions or team members be of any use is SWOTOR. You just get used to NPCs not carrying their weight after a while.

They have done worse. In an early ep of LS2 you have to fight the big bad and something that revives it. Meanwhile the NPCs are doing nothing although they seem to be building the thing that starts fearing you without having any effect on the reviver. No ‘oops’ or trying to dismantle the device, now you need to deal with the big bad, the reviver, fearing devices, AND their doing nothing to help the battle.

Aerinndis.2730:

I would to see the NPCs be a bit more durable or at least follow you to what you are attacking.

At least give them the same AI as pets/minions in a fight. They do not need to hold their own against several waves, just do SOMETHING to help.

can agree to this just completely…

net needs to learn finalyl to design their NPCs better and make them actually useful and not braindead cannon fodder like they are basically 99,99% of all the times, with the exception of the final hot battle, where they are an integral part of the combat and just can’t die.

Howeve,r naturally nobody is asking here, that the npcs shoudl be made so overpowered, that they take away your job and kill everythign much better and faster than you… but they should be able at least to defend themself alot better, to remove conditions and to go out of AoE damage (dodge/block) attacks and counter attacks eventually with cc’s to interrupt foes which bypass the foes break bars so that the allies actually are useful and can tank for you also some time the enemies, so that you can concentrate yourself more on fighting your enemies, than having to permanently rescue your allies from dieing or reviving them every few minutes, just because their abilities suck and their A.I is just total crap with them having way too less health to withstand long enough the battles

It can’t be that this game permanently switches every few minutes between completely invulnerable allies and then few moments later complete squishy allies, that die in seconds of standing too long in the next’s chak acid or mad enemies aoe attack.

ANet needs to learn finally how to make their characters more heroic and epic, without that they become too powerful to steal us players completely the show.

They need to find finalyl better the golden middle between presentign strong realiable characters that can take on a leadign role and characters, that aren’t to kitteno say to you, that they need your help, if it becomes too dangerous for them

if they get finalyl this right, then we would have also far more charismatic and believeable characters that aren’t immrsion breaking due to dieing way too often, when they would every now and then take also the lead, to show you how reliable they are and that they are the ones, who you could entrust your life at any time basically but still with the kind of huminility in their personalitys to become more passive, if the situations require more teamwork and lesser solo actions of them.

This is precisely the problem that led to my complete and utter hatred of Trehearne. Well, this and the voice acting, writing, unksippable dialogue etc. Mainly playing sylvari, the utter incomeptence, weakness and uselessness of this NPC was hammered home through almost every story mission on every toon.

Companions en masse during HoT weren’t so horrifically bad, it’s when you’ve only got one or two of them that their sheer worthlessness shines through and taints everything else.

Think of it as “tactical fainting” instead.

~EW

pikkunana.7495:

I noticed also, if you are very strong player the NPCs die easily. When I died a lot or been weak the NPCs are more stronger, stayed alive and help a lot. (in LS3 story)
I did many time the Living Story Season 3 and noticed difference between NPCs action with difference profession. Anyone else noticed that?

When you are stronger as a player you outlive them and do more, when you are weaker you die, the weaker the faster you die and of course you do less in the fight.

Its a comparative issue, like in a scale of skills (more= better), for example you are comparing 3 (NPCs) been 1 when you are weak and 3 been 9 when you are strong.

About the thread:

Theres a couple of points in differences with Hot for example:

• Less npcs helping you in Rata Novus LS3 part.
• The mobs seems a litle stronger in LS3.

So Rytlock its fighting more and stronger enemies, thats why he dies.

I saw just the opposite. Rytlock was tanking the veteran chak, while I finished off the smaller ones. The only time where the NPCs died is when they stand in AOE attacks and don’t bother to move, which does happen a lot with chak.

Also, I have noticed that the revive from NPCs seem inconsistent. Marjory and Braham almost always come to my rescue, but often the others just stand and watch me die.

wolfyrik.2017:

This is precisely the problem that led to my complete and utter hatred of Trehearne. Well, this and the voice acting, writing, unksippable dialogue etc. Mainly playing sylvari, the utter incomeptence, weakness and uselessness of this NPC was hammered home through almost every story mission on every toon.

Companions en masse during HoT weren’t so horrifically bad, it’s when you’ve only got one or two of them that their sheer worthlessness shines through and taints everything else.

Traherne was fine fighting as a not quite Legendary Necro build- for original story right up until he takes up that fool two handed sword. While wielding Saladbowl -sorry- Caladbolg he seems to loose all his battle helpfulness even if that was mainly spamming scepter #1. At least it was steady DoT . Anyway- whatever Necro standards he uses are replaced with the fairly weak and slow to use and slow activating abilities of that silly sword.

I don’t know if you have ever had your own character wield that thing but it’s a real stinker. It replaces all of your main weapon skills leaving you in unfamiliar territory combat wise and no option to swap back to your own for the fight.

It’s abilities are slow to execute and slow to recharge. Also decidedly weird abilities. I’m not sure how much thought was put into them functioning together in tandem but… Bad… VERY BAD.

A player character can however at least read what the skills do and try to make the best of it while thanking their gods, iron, the pale tree, the spirits, and the eternal alchemy that they only had to use Saladbog for one fight. ;p I know I was glad when I handed that thing off.

Seriously can you imagine having to use that slow mo powerset the sword provides for every instance battle in the Or storyarc from that moment on? Zero access to your own weapon’s 1-5 skills because your using Caladbarf?

Augh… And the Trahern NPC had to. If he were a player I’d feel bad for him….

Worse… I don’t think the NPC AI has that luxury/thought process that we do while being saddled with one of the worst/slowest 1-5 skills in the game though.

So please cut poor Traherne a little slack for sucking though the bulk of the old story.

Cheers all.

PS for fun….

Pact Commander: "Phew! What a fight. That was… Really awful. Oh!? Oh yes Traherne- I meant the foe was awful. Naturally- as you say. What?… Caladblargh? Oh you take it firstborn. It should be your honor not mine… Definitely not mine. What?… No oh no no no no. No-hoooo friend. I insist. I know my Wylde hunt is to ‘slay the dragon’ and yours is ‘to cleanse the county it resides in’… And It might make sense for the dragonslayer to have a great big sword- but I feel GREAT um… restoring magics within it’s blade. I feel it would be better suited to the cleansing and -oh look! Pale Mother agrees.

Woo! Thanks Mom!"

Roguedemonhunter.9621:

PS for fun….

Pact Commander: "Phew! What a fight. That was… Really awful. Oh!? Oh yes Traherne- I meant the foe was awful. Naturally- as you say. What?… Caladblargh? Oh you take it firstborn. It should be your honor not mine… Definitely not mine. What?… No oh no no no no. No-hoooo friend. I insist. I know my Wylde hunt is to ‘slay the dragon’ and yours is ‘to cleanse the county it resides in’… And It might make sense for the dragonslayer to have a great big sword- but I feel GREAT um… restoring magics within it’s blade. I feel it would be better suited to the cleansing and -oh look! Pale Mother agrees.

Woo! Thanks Mom!"

LOL! Nice scene

Djinn.9245:

Roguedemonhunter.9621:

PS for fun….

Pact Commander: "Phew! What a fight. That was… Really awful. Oh!? Oh yes Traherne- I meant the foe was awful. Naturally- as you say. What?… Caladblargh? Oh you take it firstborn. It should be your honor not mine… Definitely not mine. What?… No oh no no no no. No-hoooo friend. I insist. I know my Wylde hunt is to ‘slay the dragon’ and yours is ‘to cleanse the county it resides in’… And It might make sense for the dragonslayer to have a great big sword- but I feel GREAT um… restoring magics within it’s blade. I feel it would be better suited to the cleansing and -oh look! Pale Mother agrees.

Woo! Thanks Mom!"

LOL! Nice scene

Yeah, brilliant. That would totally be any of my PCs