Guild Wars 2

OriOri.8724:

Take your own advice. The experience you want is not what everyone else wants.

Something I’ve never doubted, which is WHY I’ve been suggesting that they should offer different experiences for each type of player.

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

I think they made them easier at some point, but at launch they pretty much all had OHKO attacks, so if you weren’t actively dodging them (and knew that you could do that, and when), they would just drop you like a rock. Usually other players would finish them off before you actually died, but it was a very confusing experience for players who’d never played a game with downing in them.

Feanor.2358:

And the effect is you bore 95% of your players to death and they never bother repeating it. Nonsense.

Source for your data?

What your goal should be is to make it interesting for as large part of your playerbase as possible. Which I think they have.

Source for those numbers as well.

Anyway, I believe that my suggestion would be interesting for as large a part of the playerbase as possible. Those who aren’t looking for a challenge can just go through it normally, and those who do want a challenge can activate the challenge mote and receive one. How is that not everyone winning?

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

Depends on the class. Few days ago we had a Warrior in the group at the Swampland fractal, and the boss was yet again bugged, so we decided to die. Took the Warrior maybe 10 minutes to die there, while it’s easy for my thief. /resign apparently didn’t work.

Faaris.8013:

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

Depends on the class. Few days ago we had a Warrior in the group at the Swampland fractal, and the boss was yet again bugged, so we decided to die. Took the Warrior maybe 10 minutes to die there, while it’s easy for my thief. /resign apparently didn’t work.

Oh. That’s different as builds would vary. I was referring to the tutorial area that you enter right after creating a character.

Ohoni.6057:

OriOri.8724:

Take your own advice. The experience you want is not what everyone else wants.

Something I’ve never doubted, which is WHY I’ve been suggesting that they should offer different experiences for each type of player.

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

I think they made them easier at some point, but at launch they pretty much all had OHKO attacks, so if you weren’t actively dodging them (and knew that you could do that, and when), they would just drop you like a rock. Usually other players would finish them off before you actually died, but it was a very confusing experience for players who’d never played a game with downing in them.

I don’t ever remember any of them having those kind of attacks.

Ohoni.6057:

Feanor.2358:

And the effect is you bore 95% of your players to death and they never bother repeating it. Nonsense.

Source for your data?

What your goal should be is to make it interesting for as large part of your playerbase as possible. Which I think they have.

Source for those numbers as well.

Anyway, I believe that my suggestion would be interesting for as large a part of the playerbase as possible. Those who aren’t looking for a challenge can just go through it normally, and those who do want a challenge can activate the challenge mote and receive one. How is that not everyone winning?

Anet wouldn’t win for starters, having to design at least 2 difficulty levels for each instance. That will extend the design time, the implementation time, the bug testing time, the wait time for players.

And guaranteed there will be some still unhappy it is either too hard or too easy.

It currently works as it is – they cannot 100% please everyone, so they have to go with what their vision for the game is. And it makes sense to make sure the more epic fights, feel epic and challenging.

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t ever remember any of them having those kind of attacks.

May have been before your time. The Asura tutorial boss is basically Golem MKII. If his fist pound would hit you, boom, down.

Randulf.7614:

Anet wouldn’t win for starters, having to design at least 2 difficulty levels for each instance. That will extend the design time, the implementation time, the bug testing time, the wait time for players.

Not significantly. In most cases, including this one, you’d only need to design and test the encounter once, the harder version. Then for the easier version, you’d just reduce enemy damage potential significantly, and at most just test that a few times with an extremely glassy build to make sure the damage is where it’s intended. Once they get used to the process (and really they already should be, by this point), their eyeball measurements should get it right on the first try. It’s much harder to balance something to be juuuuust hard enough that it’s not impossible than it is to take something already balanced like that and make it more casual.

And guaranteed there will be some still unhappy it is either too hard or too easy.

Probably, you can’t please everyone, but the idea would be to please MORE people by providing more options. It’s like a Venn diagram, right now you have a bubble of “all the people” and then a bubble of “people who like the current encounter balance.” This would add a third bubble, “those who would like a less death-filled version of the encounter,” which would sweep up more people from that first bubble.

Ohoni.6057:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t ever remember any of them having those kind of attacks.

May have been before your time. The Asura tutorial boss is basically Golem MKII. If his fist pound would hit you, boom, down.

I’ve been playing since launch so it would have had to have been part of the beta if that problem ever existed. Nothing came up in the google search for each of the tutorial bosses as well as the tutorial itself.

Based on my searches, the high difficulty was from the beta weekends which got progressively easier with each iteration. So you’re likely thinking about what it was like then before the game was launched.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ohoni.6057:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t ever remember any of them having those kind of attacks.

May have been before your time. The Asura tutorial boss is basically Golem MKII. If his fist pound would hit you, boom, down.

I’ve been playing since launch so it would have had to have been part of the beta if that problem ever existed. Nothing came up in the google search for each of the tutorial bosses as well as the tutorial itself.

Based on my searches, the high difficulty was from the beta weekends which got progressively easier with each iteration. So you’re likely thinking about what it was like then before the game was launched.

Beta tutorial bosses were AFKable, too. I played then.

Ohoni.6057:

Ironic. It would be boring and unsatisfying for you, you’re the one that is applying your own personal perception onto the situation. So for you, there should be a challenge mote version, and if a difficult fight is necessary for you to enjoy it, then you can play that version instead. That way everyone is happy.

So the overwhelming majority of people in this thread saying exactly the same thing and telling you that the fight doesn’t need to be dumbed down to levels of never having danger and the slimmest chance to ever be downed isn’t resonating with you then and is simply just my opinion vs yours? Get real. You’re not interested in responses unless they completely agree with your Super-duper-easy-mode vision. If you think the content as it is would be ‘challenge mote’ worthy, then I really think it’s a massive lack of skill on your part not just in the fight, but basic mechanics with thief.

I was using staff, I weapon swapped after dying a couple times.

And your point is what? With SB you have even less chance of being hit by those hounds with their telegraphed leap attack and you can use distance to make it even easier for yourself. You can also pull out thieves guild to make it even more easy for yourself. I don’t know how much easier this needs to be made for you and I feel like Infantile Mode SAB would pose a challenge to you with you wiping the sweat from your brow afterwards from such challenge.

“in before “I play a Thief and I did fine, git gub”, not useful, thank you”

This wasn’t what was said to you was it, all you’re doing is dismissing anyone that disagrees with you and actually finds a use for the dodge button. You claim that glass cannon thieves should be able to do this content, we can, you just don’t seem up to it for whatever reason and want to act like it’s super hard content that needs to be dumbed down to your needs and requirements alone. You won’t even listen to anything being said to you on how you can make the fight easier. I genuinely don’t understand how you can fail so hard on a boss encounter when you have access to dodge on tap (including signet of agility and SB #3 if required), positioning if you have to range it and actually paying attention to hound leaps.

You didn’t? I haven’t met anyone who played the original tutorials without being downed their first time through. Those bosses hit like a truck if you aren’t used to dodging and their tells.

You can’t be serious… honestly? Please tell me you’re a troll because I don’t know a single person in this game who ever thought the tutorials were difficult. Been playing since beta and it really was hard to actually die to them. These "tells’ that you have to learn, are you talking about the big red circles they ALL had on the ground to let you know an attack was coming. I don’t even…

at launch they pretty much all had OHKO attacks

They never had this, ever.

Not significantly. In most cases, including this one, you’d only need to design and test the encounter once, the harder version. Then for the easier version, you’d just reduce enemy damage potential significantly, and at most just test that a few times with an extremely glassy build to make sure the damage is where it’s intended.

I don’t think you really understand how testing works.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Beta tutorial bosses were AFKable, too. I played then.

Comments like these are why I’m always skeptical when people claim that something is soooooooo easy.

Static.9841:

So the overwhelming majority of people in this thread saying exactly the same thing and telling you that the fight doesn’t need to be dumbed down to levels of never having danger and the slimmest chance to ever be downed isn’t resonating with you then and is simply just my opinion vs yours?

Yes, that’s how it works.

You’re not interested in responses unless they completely agree with your Super-duper-easy-mode vision.

I listen and respond to all the responses, that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with them all.

If you think the content as it is would be ‘challenge mote’ worthy, then I really think it’s a massive lack of skill on your part not just in the fight, but basic mechanics with thief.

Fair enough, but not relevant to the point that I was making.

And your point is what? With SB you have even less chance of being hit by those hounds with their telegraphed leap attack and you can use distance to make it even easier for yourself. You can also pull out thieves guild to make it even more easy for yourself. I don’t know how much easier this needs to be made for you and I feel like Infantile Mode SAB would pose a challenge to you with you wiping the sweat from your brow afterwards from such challenge.

I haven’t beat Tribulation mode, but I have beat normal mode SAB, and the final HoT fight, on the first try, as well as a great deal of other content this game has to offer. I beat this instance too, as I noted in the OP, I just died a lot to get there, and I don’t think that’s a fun experience. Again, if you liked it how it is, great, they can preserve that sort of experience as an optional challenge mode, but it should not be the default experience for players who are not particularly interested in challenge.

This wasn’t what was said to you was it, all you’re doing is dismissing anyone that disagrees with you and actually finds a use for the dodge button.

I’m dismissing anyone who says anything along the lines of “I didn’t have any problems so your problems do not matter/ learn to play better,” because those people clearly did not read the OP, or at the very least didn’t understand it. Now, that doesn’t mean that you have to agree with me, but you can disagree while still understanding and accepting the basic premise of the thread.

You won’t even listen to anything being said to you on how you can make the fight easier.

Because that has nothing to do with the point I was making, and I said as much plainly in the OP.

I genuinely don’t understand how you can fail so hard on a boss encounter when you have access to dodge on tap (including signet of agility and SB #3 if required), positioning if you have to range it and actually paying attention to hound leaps.

And you don’t have to understand, just accept that it is the case and move on from there.

You can’t be serious… honestly? Please tell me you’re a troll because I don’t know a single person in this game who ever thought the tutorials were difficult. Been playing since beta and it really was hard to actually die to them. These "tells’ that you have to learn, are you talking about the big red circles they ALL had on the ground to let you know an attack was coming. I don’t even…

Yes, they are VERY easy once you know what you are doing. I mean, compared to later content, they are obviously a cakewalk. But since they are the first gameplay anyone experiences, the fact that if you don’t dodge the attacks that you don’t know you have to dodge, the boss can down you, the fact remains that most of my early characters got downed at least once in the tutorial boss fights. Of course later on I learned to play better and was able to melee Golem MKII to death without getting downed, I’m just talking about first experiences.

They never had this, ever.

Maybe you didn’t get hit by them, but they had them.

I don’t think you really understand how testing works.

I do.

Just to give my point of view on “I did it so it was easy”: That is not what we are saying.

Here’s what OP says:

The damage just piles up way too fast with way too few options to clear it, and that’s even with Shadow Refuge on my bar.

OP clearly doesn’t know about the options his thief has to regain health. I’m not even using Shadow Refuge when fighting because the slot can be used for better skills. How would you even use it in battle? Stealth yourself while you are burning or under some condition? As thief, you need to shoot/stab/club mobs to regain health, and that would break the stealth anyway.

Signet of Malice, Invigorating Precision, Driven Fortitude, Mug, Leeching Venoms, Shadow’s Rejuvenation, Slices of Candied Dragon Roll, Superior Sigil of Blood.

There are probably more options, but I use the first traits, the Dragon Rolls and Superior Sigil of Blood as second sigil. I also use the Dash trait, it will get you far away from danger quickly.

I’m pretty sure if OP makes himself more familiar with the class he’s playing, he will change his mind.

I hope that was more useful.

Faaris.8013:

OP clearly doesn’t know about the options his thief has to regain health.

OP clearly does know the options he has available, and the ones being discussed were either not part of his build at the time, or were not effective enough. Again, the point is not “tips for beating the fight,” as I said in the OP, I’d already cleared the fight, and therefore needed no additional tips. The point is “the fight should have been beatable on the first try, WITH OR WITHOUT ANY TIPS.”

I’m pretty sure if OP makes himself more familiar with the class he’s playing, he will change his mind.

I hope that was more useful.

Not in the least, because it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which was to change the balance of the story boss fights, not to offer tips on how to complete the existing ones. If you are not discussing changing the balance of the story mode boss fights, you are not on topic.

Why should it be beatable on the first try?

Ohoni.6057:

Not in the least, because it had nothing to do with the topic of this thread, which was to change the balance of the story boss fights, not to offer tips on how to complete the existing ones. If you are not discussing changing the balance of the story mode boss fights, you are not on topic.

So they should make it easily with your kittenty build and with no clue how to use your skills?

But that would mean that players who actually know what they are doing would fall asleep while fighting bosses. No thank you.

Ohoni.6057:

And your point is what? With SB you have even less chance of being hit by those hounds with their telegraphed leap attack and you can use distance to make it even easier for yourself. You can also pull out thieves guild to make it even more easy for yourself. I don’t know how much easier this needs to be made for you and I feel like Infantile Mode SAB would pose a challenge to you with you wiping the sweat from your brow afterwards from such challenge.

I haven’t beat Tribulation mode, but I have beat normal mode SAB, and the final HoT fight, on the first try, as well as a great deal of other content this game has to offer. I beat this instance too, as I noted in the OP, I just died a lot to get there, and I don’t think that’s a fun experience. Again, if you liked it how it is, great, they can preserve that sort of experience as an optional challenge mode, but it should not be the default experience for players who are not particularly interested in challenge.

I call kitten. Judging off of what you’ve said in this thread, there’s no way you were able to beat the final instance of HoT story on your first try unless you just sat and let someone else actually do all the fighting. Both the Eir fight and the Pale Tree fight had more challenging mechanics than this fight did, and you had to do at least one of those.

Ohoni.6057:

Faaris.8013:

OP clearly doesn’t know about the options his thief has to regain health.

OP clearly does know the options he has available, and the ones being discussed were either not part of his build at the time, or were not effective enough. Again, the point is not “tips for beating the fight,” as I said in the OP, I’d already cleared the fight, and therefore needed no additional tips. The point is “the fight should have been beatable on the first try, WITH OR WITHOUT ANY TIPS.”

And it was beatable on the first try. No deaths or downs needed. And it was beatable even going in blind.

And it was beatable on the first try. No deaths or downs needed. And it was beatable even going in blind.[/quote]

Definitely. I went in blind, no hints and beat it the first time. The first round I messed up because I didn’t realise you had to use the attack on the dog’s body from the air, but when I landed to use it Taimi got on the radio and was like “no idiot do it from the air”. So killed a dog again and finished it from there. Everything needed is there to do it on the first try, because that is exactly what I did.

You clearly misunderstand how games work if your first thought while playing or failing was “this obviously needs to be easier” instead of “what can i do differently to beat this”. Now if you have used everything you have and asked other possibly more experienced players for tips and still failed. Then it could be argued that it needs to be easier.

Challenge mode isn’t there for people to get normal difficulty content, it’s there to offer that extra mile for players that want to really challenge themselves and push their skills to the limit.
What you are asking for is easy mode. Not the normal mode you think it is. Even if your suggestion went through there would have to be three different modes to satisfy people who just want to press f to kill the final boss, for people who want to do some work with a risk for the reward and for people who currently do the challenge modes.

Failing is part of playing games, that’s what makes them fun. If you’d only succeed in everything you do in the game that would become boring pretty fast.

Boss is fine as it is, no solid arguments have been put out to make it easier. Compared to the Caudecus fight where there were solid arguments for making it tad easier.

Randulf.7614:

Why should it be beatable on the first try?

Because it’s a story mission, and being able to beat it without dying just feels better than rezrushing it multiple times.

Faaris.8013:

So they should make it easily with your kittenty build and with no clue how to use your skills?

Exactly.

But that would mean that players who actually know what they are doing would fall asleep while fighting bosses. No thank you.

We’ve been over this multiple times. Players that want to experience additional challenge could activate a challenge mote to have a more challenging fight. That’s the entire point of that mechanic. You shouldn’t balance around the strongest players, you should balance around the weakest. Better to have some players bored than to have any frustrated, and ideally you can offer versions for both.

OriOri.8724:

I call kitten. Judging off of what you’ve said in this thread, there’s no way you were able to beat the final instance of HoT story on your first try unless you just sat and let someone else actually do all the fighting.

Nope. Soloed it. On the same character and similar build as I was using this thread.

Both the Eir fight and the Pale Tree fight had more challenging mechanics than this fight did, and you had to do at least one of those.

It was a long time back but I think it was Eir and Canach. And I don’t think that there was anything particularly challenging about this fight, just that the hounds hit very hard and downed me too quickly, before I even got into the mechanics. Once I got one or more of them down, the rest of it was fairly easy. All I’m talking about is reducing their damage output so that they are less likely to down people.

And it was beatable on the first try. No deaths or downs needed. And it was beatable even going in blind.

“in before “I play a Thief and I did fine, git gub”, not useful, thank you”

Weli.4568:

What you are asking for is easy mode. Not the normal mode you think it is. Even if your suggestion went through there would have to be three different modes to satisfy people who just want to press f to kill the final boss, for people who want to do some work with a risk for the reward and for people who currently do the challenge modes.

No, just the two. If you want to have an even harder mode, then you can be the one to argue in favor of it, but it has nothing to do with the argument I’m making here.

Failing is part of playing games, that’s what makes them fun. If you’d only succeed in everything you do in the game that would become boring pretty fast.

Your opinion doesn’t extend to everyone, and again, if you feel that way, that’s what challenge motes are for.

Boss is fine as it is, no solid arguments have been put out to make it easier. Compared to the Caudecus fight where there were solid arguments for making it tad easier.

Entirely subjective.

Ohoni.6057:

Weli.4568:

What you are asking for is easy mode. Not the normal mode you think it is. Even if your suggestion went through there would have to be three different modes to satisfy people who just want to press f to kill the final boss, for people who want to do some work with a risk for the reward and for people who currently do the challenge modes.

No, just the two. If you want to have an even harder mode, then you can be the one to argue in favor of it, but it has nothing to do with the argument I’m making here.

Failing is part of playing games, that’s what makes them fun. If you’d only succeed in everything you do in the game that would become boring pretty fast.

Your opinion doesn’t extend to everyone, and again, if you feel that way, that’s what challenge motes are for.

Boss is fine as it is, no solid arguments have been put out to make it easier. Compared to the Caudecus fight where there were solid arguments for making it tad easier.

Entirely subjective.

You haven’t given any arguments why it should be easier as in what mechanics need fixing in the boss encounter. You just had bad luck with the hounds possibly critting you, doesn’t mean the chance to get critted should be lowered.

If you don’t include the third mode you are gonna alienate the biggest part of players. Because either the challenge mode will be clearly too hard for people to complete solo. Or it will be like this current mode which is still easy and not challenging enough for the people who really want to challenge themselves.

Weli.4568:

You clearly misunderstand how games work if your first thought while playing or failing was “this obviously needs to be easier” instead of “what can i do differently to beat this”. Now if you have used everything you have and asked other possibly more experienced players for tips and still failed. Then it could be argued that it needs to be easier.

Challenge mode isn’t there for people to get normal difficulty content, it’s there to offer that extra mile for players that want to really challenge themselves and push their skills to the limit.
What you are asking for is easy mode. Not the normal mode you think it is. Even if your suggestion went through there would have to be three different modes to satisfy people who just want to press f to kill the final boss, for people who want to do some work with a risk for the reward and for people who currently do the challenge modes.

Failing is part of playing games, that’s what makes them fun. If you’d only succeed in everything you do in the game that would become boring pretty fast.

Boss is fine as it is, no solid arguments have been put out to make it easier. Compared to the Caudecus fight where there were solid arguments for making it tad easier.

100% agree with that.

Have you considered a possibility that you are just…. well… bad at this game? People gave you plenty of good advices, but you decide to ingore everything for whatever reason. You keep looking for excuses. People completed the boss with same class, with tactics they are trying to show you. Idk what to tell you man, if I could kill those puppies with my mesmer in few seconds, I have no idea how you can’t kill them with thief. You can jump in the air any time and complete lose aggro from them and wait for you skills to recharge. The fight is easy, but still fun.

Weli.4568:

You haven’t given any arguments why it should be easier as in what mechanics need fixing in the boss encounter. You just had bad luck with the hounds possibly critting you, doesn’t mean the chance to get critted should be lowered.

Why not? Isn’t “bad luck leads to a negative play experience” a good reason to remove that potential?

If you don’t include the third mode you are gonna alienate the biggest part of players.

Why wouldn’t they be alienated already? And how can you tell that they are ghe “biggest part” if they have been completely silent up to now?

Because either the challenge mode will be clearly too hard for people to complete solo. Or it will be like this current mode which is still easy and not challenging enough for the people who really want to challenge themselves.

Which I haven’t heard anyone terrible critical of, except in opposition to an easier version.

serialkicker.5274:

Have you considered a possibility that you are just…. well… bad at this game?

Possible, but not really relevant to the point being made here. This discussion is not about whether or not I’m bad at the game, the point is what to do with the game relative to the outcome of that.

There’s a trend that when people don’t like something they are very vocal about it on the forums. When everything is fine the same people don’t come to the forums.

Trust me if this was an issue people would have been here crying about it since Tuesday. Instead people are more concerned about Legendary Armor and the story itself so the boss battle isn’t an issue. Otherwise there would have been multiple threads and they would have been merged.

And no having bad luck isn’t a reason to nerf something. This is bit exaggerated but having both of those mobs crit you at the same time is like you complaining about not winning the powerball on your first try and wanting better odds.

So try to give some solid reasons why there should be nerfs otherwise there is no point in this thread.

Weli.4568:

There’s a trend that when people don’t like something they are very vocal about it on the forums. When everything is fine the same people don’t come to the forums.

That may be true, but does nothing to invalidate the position they take. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Trust me if this was an issue people would have been here crying about it since Tuesday. Instead people are more concerned about Legendary Armor and the story itself so the boss battle isn’t an issue. Otherwise there would have been multiple threads and they would have been merged.

It’s a quality of life issue. Since you can simply resume from a checkpoint, this is not an issue that is likely to be game breaking for anyone, including myself. As I noted in the OP, I was capable of completing the mission, even though it was an in manner I found frustrating and unsatisfactory. The suggestion is not one intended to fix a game breaking problem with the content, an impassible barrier, but rather to make the journey more fun and convenient, to make the players happier with the experience at the end of it.

And no having bad luck isn’t a reason to nerf something. This is bit exaggerated but having both of those mobs crit you at the same time is like you complaining about not winning the powerball on your first try and wanting better odds.

But if removing that potential results in a better experience even a small amount of the time, then why not do it? Really having mobs crit for massive damage isn’t a good idea in the first place, because random horrible luck should not be the reason for a bad outcome.

So try to give some solid reasons why there should be nerfs otherwise there is no point in this thread.

I’ve given numerous ones in the OP and throughout the thread, you’ll have to be more specific. More importantly, I have no need to justify the thread to you personally, so you’ll need to give me a reason why I should care whether you agree with me or not.

Ohoni.6057:

More importantly, I have no need to justify the thread to you personally, so you’ll need to give me a reason why I should care whether you agree with me or not.

Thank you for voicing your concerns, we will look into this matter. Don’t call us, we will call you. Have a good day.

Ohoni.6057:

Anyway, I believe that my suggestion would be interesting for as large a part of the playerbase as possible. Those who aren’t looking for a challenge can just go through it normally, and those who do want a challenge can activate the challenge mote and receive one. How is that not everyone winning?

You can believe anything you want, it doesn’t make it true. I personally would never bother doing a challenge for a mission I originally found boring. And there’s pretty simple logic behind that: If the original content was so easy to be boring, I don’t expect a tweaked-up version to be actually challenging.

Furthermore, it would have ruined my experience and immersion already, so I’d feel disappointed at the content and won’t be willing to revisit it.

So no, it’s not everyone winning. It’s the players who just came into the game and don’t yet know its mechanics who are winning. Everyone else is losing, hard.

Feanor.2358:

You can believe anything you want, it doesn’t make it true. I personally would never bother doing a challenge for a mission I originally found boring.

Ok, that’s entirely up to you. My expectation would be that players who know that they enjoy a challenge, and that know that they would not find it in the default version, would activate the challenge mote on their first attempt, knowing that this would provide them with the sort of experience that they enjoy. If they don’t, then I respect their decision, but at least they were presented with the option.

And there’s pretty simple logic behind that: If the original content was so easy to be boring, I don’t expect a tweaked-up version to be actually challenging.

That’s faulty reasoning, but the game can’t be held accountable to that flawed logic.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s faulty reasoning, but the game can’t be held accountable to that flawed logic.

Maybe so. But there’s another simple fact – no game is balanced in the way you’re envisioning. Pretty much all of them are balanced the way I described. Ever wondered why?

Feanor.2358:

Maybe so. But there’s another simple fact – no game is balanced in the way you’re envisioning. Pretty much all of them are balanced the way I described. Ever wondered why?

Because you’re wrong, and most games aren’t balanced like you discussed. Most games are balanced like I discussed, with story content being pretty difficult to mess up, and only optional difficulty modes being a stronger challenge.

We seem to have reached an impasse. I don’t know what games are you playing. In the ARPGs I play, every boss can and will kill you if you’re not familiar with the game mechanics. GW2 bosses aren’t an outlier in terms of difficulty. They are more or less the same difficulty I find on any boss in any ARPG. Some harder, some easier. Just like in any other game.

Ohoni.6057:

…with story content being pretty difficult to mess up, and only optional difficulty modes being a stronger challenge.

You cannot really mess up the story in this game. You can even leave the PC while you get instructions, come back, and then follow the green star for the next step. You can cancel chapters, restart them, you can die as often as you like and restart, you cannot lose or miss items that are required to proceed in the story.

You probably cannot name a single thing of the story that you can mess up. If you consider it a mess up when you character dies in a game, then move on to a game where your character is invincible. By now, you are purely trolling this forum.

Ohoni.6057:

I main a Thief. The last few updates have been very frustrating for me, because I’ve found it impossible to stay alive during the final boss battles. The damage just piles up way too fast with way too few options to clear it, and that’s even with Shadow Refuge on my bar. I imagine my Guardian would have an easier time surviving, he usually does, but all classes should have a reasonable chance at survival. Yeah, you can just reload a checkpoint and continue from where you left off, but rez-rushing boss finghts just isn’t a fun way to play them.

I think that the default boss fights need to be better balanced for solo players, of ALL classes, not just the tankier builds. They should be about following the mechanics of the fight, not about surviving massive burn stacks and two agroed opponents. If you want to do a “challenging” version, that’s fine too, but make it the optional challenge mote version, intended to be done with a full and balanced team, not the default “story mode” version of it.

I think this update was great overall, I just wish that it were better balanced for glassy characters (in before “I play a Thief and I did fine, git gub”, not useful, thank you).

You can play whatever you like , if you wanna play a glassy zerk thief that dieds supah fast and has trouble surviving thats your call. If you wanna play a tankie thief that is within the realm of possibilities.

You could easily equip pvt for this and survive, sorry I just realise pvt might still be to squishie for you, consider nomads.

Faaris.8013:

You cannot really mess up the story in this game. You can even leave the PC while you get instructions, come back, and then follow the green star for the next step. You can cancel chapters, restart them, you can die as often as you like and restart, you cannot lose or miss items that are required to proceed in the story.

Ok, just to catch you up to the entire rest of this thread, we’ve been discussing how the bosses in the most recent story encounter are well capable of killing players multiple times over the course of the boss fight. Many players have been reporting this experience, and many others have been telling those players to shut up because they (they second group) did not have that same problems. The first group then replied that this was all well and good, but not particularly relevant to the first group’s concerns.

And now back to the thread, already in progress. . .

Right, story instances in a game I play being at least interesting mechanically isn’t something I should be concerned about? Are you serious?

Ohoni.6057:

Because you’re wrong, and most games aren’t balanced like you discussed. Most games are balanced like I discussed, with story content being pretty difficult to mess up, and only optional difficulty modes being a stronger challenge.

Need examples of these games that are balanced around the easy mode. You can’t just throw statements out there without backing it up with examples. And it should be you convincing us that it indeed needs a nerf and not us convincing you that it doesn’t. As you are clearly in the minority in this one.

You said damage was issue, this would be true if there was no space to maneuver on the platform but as there’s all the space you could ever need plus you can glide away in case of the worst case scenario

Ohoni.6057:

That’s exactly my point, that shouldn’t be necessary. You should not have to “learn” this fight, this is a fight that you should be able to beat on the first try, no deaths, regardless of skill level or build type. The only difference skill should make is in how long the fight lasts.

Why have a fight at all if you win by default, without any knowledge of the fight or fight mechanics? You might just as well skip the fight and just do cutscenes then.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Chadramar.8156:

Ohoni.6057:

I will note that this mission would have been WAY more fun, across the board, if we’d had access to Bloodstone gliding powers.

Seriously. And not just this fight, but other situations as well. The gliding skills are among the best things from this LS season, and it’s a shame to see them dropped like a hot potato after the first episode.

But… Episode 4?

was flying attacks used again in ep 4 ? Also a small suggestion would it be possible to drop some of the ep 5 mastery thingies in the hot maps? I mean it makes sense lore wise with the druids and such and it could make running around the map faster and easier

Gaile Gray.6029:

Chadramar.8156:

Ohoni.6057:

I will note that this mission would have been WAY more fun, across the board, if we’d had access to Bloodstone gliding powers.

Seriously. And not just this fight, but other situations as well. The gliding skills are among the best things from this LS season, and it’s a shame to see them dropped like a hot potato after the first episode.

But… Episode 4?

Very true, but only at one specific map point. It wasn’t map wide

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

Used to be able to, back when tutorial fights were the lead experience on ANet’s One-Hit KO fetish.

Then for NPE, they changed it so you can’t die in the tutorial. That bouncing between extremes isn’t really healthy. >.>

Rauderi.8706:

Ayrilana.1396:

People died during the tutorials? You can AFK at the bosses and never die.

Used to be able to, back when tutorial fights were the lead experience on ANet’s One-Hit KO fetish.

Then for NPE, they changed it so you can’t die in the tutorial. That bouncing between extremes isn’t really healthy. >.>

I don’t ever remember being at risk to dying in the tutorials and I used to key farm. I also could find no documentation of such a change having been made. Not like it’d be difficult to confirm this as there are numerous videos of the tutorial fights so they can easily be compared to now to see if there are any differences.

Perhaps, the OP should be championing for an Infantile Mode, rather than a Challenge Mode. Since it seems most responders do not feel the need for a Challenge Mode. /shrug

Good luck.

Personally, I thought the worst part of the story 4 fight was that we needed a bigger area but 5? This one was fine! We weren’t limited to a tiny space! Yes, the actual fighting area was somewhat small, and putting gliding attack skills in here would have been a great place to add some. (obviously we’d need more threats added for when we were gliding then, or it’d be too easy :P) However, as it is, you can use gliding to escape death fairly easily. I only fought through once, but from what I saw the bosses do not seem regen health when you are away from them so gliding away to help yourself live doesn’t reset your fight or anything. So people having trouble can try gliding more often/longer. Heal on CD? Glide for a little and then land to use it

I’m a solo player and by no means am I a great player, maybe even not that ‘good’ overall… but I feel like people not using dodges and gliding to their advantage are the ones struggling, and these are simple things to use. You might not WANT to glide around a ton, but if you can’t handle the fight otherwise then you really should give more gliding a try.
and if you realllly try your best and still can’t do it, get a group together for it! Right now is the best time for getting this one done with a group! Later on it might be harder with people moving on to other things.

My full zurker warrior did it quite easy.

Enabling glider skills would dumb down an already easy fight even further as it would remove pretty much all risk.

Thieves are inherently disadvantaged in solo PvE, unless you have just the right build or absolutely know what you’re doing. To make the bosses trivial for thief would make them absolutely faceroll for all the other classes.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Chadramar.8156:

Ohoni.6057:

I will note that this mission would have been WAY more fun, across the board, if we’d had access to Bloodstone gliding powers.

Seriously. And not just this fight, but other situations as well. The gliding skills are among the best things from this LS season, and it’s a shame to see them dropped like a hot potato after the first episode.

But… Episode 4?

When? Just because the same team made it doesn’t mean they implemented it. personally I don’t care for Episode 1 being the only one with those masteries; I’m fine with that. Episode 5 would probably be the second most fitting one to have them.

Cronos.6532:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Chadramar.8156:

Ohoni.6057:

I will note that this mission would have been WAY more fun, across the board, if we’d had access to Bloodstone gliding powers.

Seriously. And not just this fight, but other situations as well. The gliding skills are among the best things from this LS season, and it’s a shame to see them dropped like a hot potato after the first episode.

But… Episode 4?

When? Just because the same team made it doesn’t mean they implemented it. personally I don’t care for Episode 1 being the only one with those masteries; I’m fine with that. Episode 5 would probably be the second most fitting one to have them.

You can actually use them in Lake Doric. You only get access after gliding on a leyline, though.

Thought this boss battle was quite well balanced. It didn’t feel like a continuous slap down in difficulty, but it definitely pushed me and things got hairy a few times. . . . so just about right. This was done on a staff p/p daredevil with just a bit more toughness than the standard 17khp marauder/zerker set, so make of that what you will.