Guild Wars 2

What is the logic behind the Current Events Achievements only appearing after you’ve done them/started on them?

It seems a little counter-intuitive to me, like it would just create a system where some portion of players who might otherwise have seen the content miss out on doing it (or on doing it when a lot of people are doing it, which is always more convenient), or making it so people have to rely on outside websites to find out what they have yet to experience/complete. I don’t see the advantage for either the player or the game.

If it’s a matter of spoilers (which seems silly, but it’s the only thing I can think of), I’d suggest programming it so we can see that there is an event, like with a blank box that shows the place to go to achieve it, at least, when you hover over it, maybe. Though, personally, I’d still vote for the simpler option of just having it viewable like any other achievement as soon as it’s possible to do it.

I’d also like to suggest that the little red “!” icon show on the hero button and achievements tab when new achievements are added, just to give players a heads-up that there’s more game to play.

I wondered that as well. Seems a new trend for some reason. Yes, I’d rather see it beforehand instead of stumbling upon it or seeing it after I actually completed it.

Thank God for Dulfy’s guides.

Seems a bit odd to me as well. No idea why they’d do something like this. Dulfy to the rescue as usual though.

I would not mind if I had a message when entering a map with a “hidden achievement”, so I can actively search for it. This way you could find e.g. the new Ley Line collection events that have been added with the last patch.

But the current system is way to inconsistent and we should not be tuned to look at Dulfy’s site, because Anet thinks that “poking your surrounding area in complete darkness with a stick” is a fine idea.

I think part of the ‘hidden by default’ is probably due to the number of people that don’t want to see them if they aren’t doing that stuff. Some people find it irritating to have stuff like that on their list, and when they eventually get moved to “archived” all they see is stuff they missed or didn’t complete and they blow a gasket.

When I see the new little tidbit hints on the patch notes, I just check dulfy later in the day. Other people will have found and filled in the necessary information on what to do long before I even get out of work.

@Lanfear

“Let’s just keep them in ignorance that there ever was content they could have completed” doesn’t seem like the appropriate solution to people getting upset that they missed content.

I’m not saying there are not ways to track stuff. I’m saying that ideally, those means should be available in game whenever possible. That’s just good design.

I don’t think that the intent is to keep people ignorant of available content, Bridget.

Its more for those people that have previously raised a ruckus about missing achievements, incomplete achievements, or achievements they just don’t care about showing up on their lists. It bothers their OCD apparently.

Granted, I think they should have just hid them if no progress was made after they finally get archived, but that’s not the route they took.

Additionally, I’m sure there’s the factor that some people like these explore and discover type things, without the achievements leading them around by the nose.

If they had wanted to keep people ignorant, they wouldn’t have bothered with the tip offs in the patch notes and we wouldn’t be getting emails each time something new makes itself known.

I’d like to see all the possible achievements appear. There are hidden ones other than the new current events. There are several in the new HoT areas. If you don’t actually look them up you wouldn’t know they exist unless you stumble on them or someone tells you about them.

@Lanfear

People always quote the patch notes as if they’re supposed to be some Bible for playing the game, but the thing about the patch notes and the forum in general is that you still have to go outside the game to get information about what’s in the game, and while that’s a fact of every MMO to some extent, it’s not ideal, and the opposite should be the aim whenever possible. The reality is, huge portions of the population are not hanging about here or Dulfy, or, even if they are, they shouldn’t have to. At least, the need should be minimized whenever possible.

When I said that keeping people ignorant of content was not a good solution to the problem that you discussed, I didn’t mean it as if they deliberately thought it would be a good idea, but that, ironically, that’s what they’ve achieved with this system. You probably understood that, but the fact that you made me explain it makes this conversation seem like you’re arguing for the sake of arguing.

There may be people who want to walk around and discover things blindly, but no one seems to be jumping up to say “That’s me!” I would posit that most people would like to be able to take a quick look at their panel and find stuff to do. The achievements panel has already taken the place of a quest log in that area, and I know that at one time the idea of getting away from the quest log was important to the devs

I don’t like looking back and seeing what I’ve missed on my achievements either (and there’s a fair amount, since I stopped playing regularly for a long time when they were doing the Scarlet stuff, none of which is replayable), so I am one of these people that you’re talking about, and it itches me every time. But the option to toggle that off would take care of that for most people who are “OCD” in this case. And, I think, since this is a business, after all, that giving people a sense of urgency about being in game and spending time (and ultimately, gems) there consistently so they don’t miss out on stuff is probably a bigger priority. That means that they want to itch the completionist types, no matter that might annoy them, and they want to be telling people that there’s more and more content to do. That’s how they get people to spend money.

Well, so far throughout the history of the game, there’s been more outcry about Achievements left undone in the Achievement panel, than outcry about notification, so perhaps the Devs were/are trying to satisfy that group of players that have made their wants more known. /shrug

Usually, though, the pendulum seems to swing back and forth concerning what the Devs implement. Loud cries about something, the Devs change it…then loud cries about how it should be the way it was before.

It must be difficult to determine the best course.

Let me then add my loud cry: I think it is silly to hide these achievements. If missing some achievements is such a big issue for players that ArenaNet sees the need to hide them beforehand then I think they should have a good look at the game. And with them I mean both those players and the devs. GW2 is a game that constantly changes, it is one of the strongest points of the game. And some of those changes come with temporary achievements.

I don’t think it should ever be necessary to look on a 3rd party site like Dulfy to know what the current content in the game is. But “It must be difficult to determine the best course.” is definitely true

As much as I love Dulfy, I must agree. Honestly, in order to enjoy the content, you pretty much have to go to third party sites like Dulfy.

Otherwise, you’ll miss out.

I just want to add that there’s a substantial difference between hiding a few achievements in Tangled Depths that are in “secret” areas that you need to figure out or find by exploring to get them, and hiding the Current Events.

It makes sense to hide the Tangled Depths achievements if you want people to get them organically, and I did stumble across a couple of them on my own, without needing to visit the wiki. They’re hidden achievements for hidden things. Great, this is all logical, and if the developers are going to hide little treats in maps, it makes sense not to have a giant sign on the achievements panel pointing people where to go. And ultimately, the Tangled Depths hidden achievements are always going to be there. If I don’t catch on that there’s something I didn’t do right away, I can still go back and do the content. They’re all soloable, too, even the Elemental one. There’s nothing time sensitive about them.

But the Current Events achievements are current. No one knows how long they’ll be available. Two months? They’re time-sensitive content because of the story involvement. And they’re all time-sensitive in another way, as well, because mostly they’re hard enough that you need multiple players to complete them. The reason why people rush through content on MMO’s is because there’s always an urgency to complete stuff while other people are interested in doing it.

Hiding information that is time sensitive is exactly the wrong choice. I don’t care how much people kitten about how they are upset to learn there was stuff they missed and now they have to look at it in the archived achievements, they’re going to be kittened they missed it this way too.

ANet, add a toggle off switch for uncompleted achievements for the people who want it, and leave achievements viewable for the people who want that. Hide a few super secret achievements like the ones in Tangled Depths if you must, but don’t hide information that is needed to play the current game.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Granted, I think they should have just hid them if no progress was made after they finally get archived, but that’s not the route they took.

They’ve taken that route for all of S1’s temporary achievements.

One of the bigger issues I’ve seen was that the Season 2 achievements spoiled stuff – like mentioning the Shadow of the Dragon and Aerin’s names in the achievements. So those who look at them before doing the story get spoiled. They were better at this with HoT, using things like “the mordrem beast” instead of the dragon champion’s name.

Not sure why they’re keeping these hidden, but I don’t mind, personally. Seems they’ve gotten better though given that all ley line anomaly achievements are shown at the same time (when completing the first) rather than when progress is made in them individually.

Bridget Morrigan.1752:

But the Current Events achievements are current. No one knows how long they’ll be available. Two months? They’re time-sensitive content because of the story involvement. And they’re all time-sensitive in another way, as well, because mostly they’re hard enough that you need multiple players to complete them. The reason why people rush through content on MMO’s is because there’s always an urgency to complete stuff while other people are interested in doing it.

Hiding information that is time sensitive is exactly the wrong choice. I don’t care how much people kitten about how they are upset to learn there was stuff they missed and now they have to look at it in the archived achievements, they’re going to be kittened they missed it this way too.

Despite the name “Current Events” nothing actually implies that they’ll go away or are temporary in any way.

So far, we’ve only see the events added upon – remaining around still, but expanded upon. Like the executioner showing up at the original five bandit leaders, or the Inquest/Priory/Consortium showing up to the original nine ley line overflow locations.

Which actually might be why they’re hidden – they’re “current events” but may remain around. The name implies that the category is only for the most recent stuff but in long term we may see these things remain and thus ancient stuff is there thus not really “current”.

What I’m saying is that if the category is for an ever-growing-and-permanent group of achievements then eventually it’ll get VERY bloody long. The method of hiding achievements not worked for would be there to keep it from being very long for those who haven’t been actively going after every one of them.

Of course, that problem could easily be solved by simply allowing an option to hide completed (or infinitely repeating) achievements.

I do agree with the general sentiment that we shouldn’t have to go to outside sites (be they the wiki itself or a third party site like Dulfy) to know what we need to do. However, I do feel they have done a decent job of notifying us in game, each time a new segment of these “current events” has become available, and they do an ok job of pointing us in the correct direction. Once we head down that path, finding the achievements seems to happen relatively naturally. Is some of it still obscure? Yes. Never said there wasn’t room for improvement.

The game already has a mechanism to reveal those achievements in the form of the ingame mail you get, or the description on the “starter item”

Those starter items have an extremely high drop rate from extremely common enemies. Most players I know discovered these achievements naturally and thought it was cool.

This is far better than the LS1 method, where the game just spoiled the whole plotline for you with a list of achievements your character would know nothing about.