Destroy DR - Relocate to Ebonhawke
We already had this scenario with Lion’s Arch. I doubt the story writers at Arenanet are going to repeat themselves so soon.
Why Ebonhawke?
If we’re going to relocate the humans, move them to Orr, it fits their background, and it would be a shame to have the land we spent the personal story cleansing just go to waste.
Or flatten Black Citadel and take back Rin! Commander, to me!
#rememberAscalon
Pre-searing Ascalon T_T
It would require too much work to separate Ebonhawke as its own zone, which would also entail changing a bunch of dialogues, needing to make it feel more vibrant to fit other cities, and would be too huge of a mess when dealing with the personal story – the destruction and reconstruction of LA was a huge enough mess with the PS, I doubt Anet wants to do the same elsewhere anytime soon.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Or destroy Rata Sum because it is not doing anything for the world either. Let that be a lesson to the little rats that they cannot hide from the destroyers even on the surface.
Yay?
Rata Sum is far more vulnerable in regards of story telling. Relatively small city populated with individuals each one with an ego the size of an elder dragon and technical know-how to blow things up. Based on what’s seen in the Uncategorized Fractal ending up with blown up RS is quite likely.
More seriously, neither is likely to happen – it will require redesign and/or creation of new starter areas that have some sort of linear progression to higher level ones. This would require way too much effort just for the sake of blowing up a starter city. This is also likely to be the main reason why LA was chosen for Scarlet’s invasion – it’s destruction did not require anything other than moving MF to another place – all other services area already present in other cities.
i already had such an idea in mind, ebonhawke is the perfect place to move to.
one reason is because GW2 has way to many starter areas, that’s why the game seems so tiny.
fields of ruin: part of it turns in to ebonhawke city, the rest is for lvl 1-15
blazeridge steppes: lvl 15-25, iron marches has gatekeepers warning players for the high lvl change. (iron marches stays the same)
queensdale: lvl kitten
divinity’s reach: turns in an elite area for lvl 60, only veteran enemies and higher are in this area.
IMO it’s just better to keep starter areas in one area, splitting them as much as we have it now means there are way to many low level areas and higher lvl areas are way to far out of reach and to localized.
But we already filled the destroyed city trope.
I like each race getting their lwn starter zone, it gives more importance to the different races. If we all started on the same zone with the same quests we would all get bored 5 tines faster.
fields of ruin: part of it turns in to ebonhawke city, the rest is for lvl 1-15
blazeridge steppes: lvl 15-25, iron marches has gatekeepers warning players for the high lvl change. (iron marches stays the same)
I’m sorry, but you want the Shatterer to be a level 25 boss?
No. Just no.
And these areas were portrayed as the toughest areas of Ascalon in earlier renditions – particularly in lore. It’s sad enough that the ‘no one leaves here alive’ Ascalon City is in the starter zone for charr.
IMO it’s just better to keep starter areas in one area, splitting them as much as we have it now means there are way to many low level areas and higher lvl areas are way to far out of reach and to localized.
With downscaling done right, it wouldn’t matter how many low level zones you have.
Besides, your suggestion only moves the low level zones to Ascalon, making more of Ascalon low leveled rather than reducing the number of low level zones.
Furthermore, your suggestion completely ignores the personal story – I’m sorry, but you cannot be sending level 10 players to a “level 60 elite zone” without massive backlash. And can you imagine what the backlash would be if they reworked the entire human’s personal story? There was huge enough backlash for the removal of the greatest fear story arc, and there’s constant complaints about season 1 having been temporary.
Not to mention the pure amount of work in reworking all of this. It would be a HUGE undertaking for no real results. And wouldn’t even achieve your desire of fewer starter zones!
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
(edited by Konig Des Todes.2086)
Hi, sorry I’ve not replied in so long. To clarify, I was thinking of something happening similar to Avalon City in Dark Age of Camelot. In the lore of that game Avalon (the island) was the lore-home-region of the Wizards and Avalonians (a race). When the expansion Shrouded Isles released Avalon had been invaded by a dragon and it’s minions. The Dragon’s name I forget, but the minions were known as Draconians, a sort of humanoid dragon-like race that varied greatly in shape and kind. Eventually they were able to overcome most of Avalon, leaving only some outposts, downs, and ruins as places where the player could take haven and retaliate.
What I was thinking about Divinity’s Reach is that it’s essentially a zone that’s very large, but most of it we do not use and cannot even access. Also, it’s essentially just a circular cage of decorated stone. What they really ought to do is redesign it to look out on the land surrounding the city a bit more. As it is, it’s just a medieval-style Final Fantasy 7 Midgard.
What I was thinking they should do is essentially level the outer walls of the city, destroy the a good portion of the six huge bridges leading upward to the inner city and stop there. Shaemoor would be left intact and Shaemoor garrison would remain leaving Queensdale itself unaltered save that Shaemoor Garrison would have a portal leading to Ebonhold as the Krytan armies (that survived) the destruction of Divinity’s Reach would retreat through that and also garner reinforcements.
In summary, the Dragons would claim most of the North and West of Tyria while the six races would continue to hold a thin strand through the middle of Tyria and most of the classical Eastern portion. No change would take place in the difficulty of zones save that Divinity’s Reach itself would become a dungeon similar to Lion’s Arch during Scarlet’s raids. Afterward the ‘city’ would be reduced to the central area of The Upper City (without any changes). Each of the High Roads would be destroyed. The outer wall of the city would be gone, leaving in place a view out onto the lake surrounding Divinity’s Reach. Each of the Quarters and Districts would be preserved with damages only to the outer edges again: perhaps ruins spilling off into the water around where the borders of the city had been formerly?
As a game designer the things I would be thinking about as I did this (from the technical end) is that I’d be freeing up a lot of wasted memory and changing the general way in which zones are made so that there is less of a “down in kitten” feeling. “Down in kitten” feeling coming from how every zone is essentially built into a depression. Games like Dragon Age Inquisition have proven this form of design is no longer necessary.
The destruction of Lion’s Arch doesn’t really state that other cities can’t be destroyed. In fact, it really argues that they should be. Most are built too large and too little space is used in them effectively.
It’s not that I think things should be downsized. That needs clarification too. Rather, I think that a great portion of the game has a lot of unused and not particularly attractive spaces when it comes to these huge cities. The trick of rebuilding any of them would be rebuilding sections that don’t require much or even any change in the way personal story is set up. That or simply removing personal story from taking place in areas impacted by a living world.
No, race cities shouldnt be destroyed. If you want to destroy anything, we might as well destroy citadel because its so buttugly. Besides im tired of destroyed cities. Its kinda a shame old Lions arch was removed completely because it had an uniqueness to it. The new LA is beautiful as well but, just think about it…they could have added a whole new city with a different name and we could have kept old LA and still gotten a new nice city…But they didnt take this descision ^^
fields of ruin: part of it turns in to ebonhawke city, the rest is for lvl 1-15
blazeridge steppes: lvl 15-25, iron marches has gatekeepers warning players for the high lvl change. (iron marches stays the same)I’m sorry, but you want the Shatterer to be a level 25 boss?
No. Just no.
aw, are you afraid you lose out loot…….i seriously don’t care about one single enemy if it improves the overall game.
And these areas were portrayed as the toughest areas of Ascalon in earlier renditions – particularly in lore. It’s sad enough that the ‘no one leaves here alive’ Ascalon City is in the starter zone for charr.
these places are actually not as tough in lore as you think, just less easy.
play GW1 for instance, there is a whole area there and mid levels steamroll through there.
it’s tough…..for inexperience adventurers.
IMO it’s just better to keep starter areas in one area, splitting them as much as we have it now means there are way to many low level areas and higher lvl areas are way to far out of reach and to localized.
With downscaling done right, it wouldn’t matter how many low level zones you have.[/quote]
actually it does, low level areas are made for low level players, mid level areas have a higher challenge in them because everyone there is expected to have enough specialization, rare armor and an elite skill
Besides, your suggestion only moves the low level zones to Ascalon, making more of Ascalon low leveled rather than reducing the number of low level zones.
you focus way to much on ascalon, ascalon is suppose to be low/mid level.
it may not be in GW2 but everything, from lore to GW1, it already shows it’s a low level continent.
Furthermore, your suggestion completely ignores the personal story – I’m sorry, but you cannot be sending level 10 players to a “level 60 elite zone” without massive backlash. And can you imagine what the backlash would be if they reworked the entire human’s personal story?
they changed whole cities, heck, destroyed whole areas and you worry about something they can fix in half the time it takes to add even the basics of new LA?
don’t complain when you have no idea what you’re talking about. (and yes, i do, i even design games)
There was huge enough backlash for the removal of the greatest fear story arc, and there’s constant complaints about season 1 having been temporary.
and this has to do with improvement….how exactly?
Not to mention the pure amount of work in reworking all of this. It would be a HUGE undertaking for no real results. And wouldn’t even achieve your desire of fewer starter zones!
yah, quite huge…….
no seriously, it takes more time to add even 1/5 of new LA then making ebonhawke a city, making an armor, adding it and fit it for every body size and type takes more time then redoing the PS for humans.
so if we would look at how you see it, it’s way to much work to add a city, remove a city, change the levels of enemies and relocating the PS.
however, the complains about that there is no challenge, dungeons are done wrong, the trait system needs changing, we need new stuff, more LS, reliving S1LS, etc…..that’s not such a big deal to do.
i try to add a mode, challenge players and to centralize new players in one spot, improving the game overall.
you want to keep it the way it is, keeping the game as boring and unorganized as it already is.
i improve, you complain.
aw, are you afraid you lose out loot…….i seriously don’t care about one single enemy if it improves the overall game.
Yeah, because the Shatterer drops awsomely epic loot…
The thing is that it WON’T improve the game. The dragon champions are depicted as terrible creatures of immense power, with the Elder Dragons beyond years beyond such. To make one a level 25 foe is… pathetic to the lore.
It’s nothing but harm.
these places are actually not as tough in lore as you think, just less easy.
play GW1 for instance, there is a whole area there and mid levels steamroll through there.
it’s tough…..for inexperience adventurers.
GW1 didn’t have the Dragonbrand.
Which is what I was referring to, which is half of your 15-25 map.
GW1 also didn’t have access to Fields of Ruin area, nor the ogre invasion.
The area got more hazardous in the past 250 years. And that’s to the lore.
actually it does, low level areas are made for low level players, mid level areas have a higher challenge in them because everyone there is expected to have enough specialization, rare armor and an elite skill
The issue here is that you’re not removing low level areas. You’re just moving them about.
And like I said, if downscaling is done right then even if you have specializations unlocked, higher tier armor, and elite skills it won’t matter, you’d still be just as strong as a PC at the map’s level. IF done right.
you focus way to much on ascalon, ascalon is suppose to be low/mid level.
it may not be in GW2 but everything, from lore to GW1, it already shows it’s a low level continent.
1) Not a continent
2) Nothing says Ascalon is supposed to be low/mid level. Just because it was in GW1 doesn’t mean it should be in GW2.
3) Originally, Kryta was low level in GW1.
4) Fireheart Rise is high level in GW2.
5) You’re still not reducing the number of low level zones, just switching their placement.
they changed whole cities, heck, destroyed whole areas and you worry about something they can fix in half the time it takes to add even the basics of new LA?
don’t complain when you have no idea what you’re talking about. (and yes, i do, i even design games)
They might have reshaped LA, but they utilize the old maps of LA for the steps.
Furthermore, they didn’t change the levels of the areas, which you are suggesting. That’s what messes things up. LA might have been destroyed, but both before and after destruction as well as rebuilding, you’d be level 30-60 going through that area in the Personal Story.
However, you’d be going through your hypothetical level 60 zone as a level 10-30. That doesn’t work. And do you think they’d completely scrap 7 different storylines and rebuild new ones from the ground up? That’s a waste of resources.
It’s clearly you who doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
yah, quite huge…….
no seriously, it takes more time to add even 1/5 of new LA then making ebonhawke a city, making an armor, adding it and fit it for every body size and type takes more time then redoing the PS for humans.so if we would look at how you see it, it’s way to much work to add a city, remove a city, change the levels of enemies and relocating the PS.
Changing the appearance of a single no-foe-no-event-no-balance map is vastly different than changing four maps, three of which do have foes, events, and in turn balancing, and seven storylines.
i try to add a mode, challenge players and to centralize new players in one spot, improving the game overall.
you want to keep it the way it is, keeping the game as boring and unorganized as it already is.
i improve, you complain.
Strawman argument if I ever saw one.
I’m not wanting things to be kept the way it is. I’d just rather not have pointless reworks that could have different, simpler, reworks done with better results.
You don’t need to turn DR and Queensdale into tougher maps, while turning Fields of Ruin and Blazeridge Steppes into easier maps. That’s counter productive – all you’re doing is shuffling things around, not improving. The end outcome is the same, but with different appearances.
Anet’s resources would be better spent reworking the dungeons like they did Ascalon Catacombs way back when to make them all on par to Aetherpath -all level 80s, with unique drops within, unique boss fights, minimal running past mobs allowed, and overall better rewards -; or to rework The Shatterer, Claw of Jormag, and all the other world bosses to be on par to Tequatl, Vinewrath, Twisted Marionette, Prime Hologram, or Triple Trouble – to require more than just standing still, pressing one, and going afk.
I’m not complaining about improving things. I’m complaining about shuffling things about with the same end-result!
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
The general flow of the conversation seems to be ‘no’ to the idea of destroying Divinity’s Reach. Especially if it should some how result in level reduction to other areas of the world.
In general I can see the reasoning behind the ‘nos’ and agree. While I generally like Divinity’s Reach in concept, I find it gratuitous. It’s really not a city so much as a series of repeating vistas with too little going on in-between each to feel connected.
However, that said, the general flow of the conversation also seems to say we’re rather lacking in terms of challenging content. A long time ago I argued that the world event Dragon Lieutenants (like Shatterer) ought to be reworked so that they roam around the map attacking individual players or areas of the map. This would be stage 1 of a 3 stage process to actually attacking one. That is how older games did such things and it has always turned out to be better than “a dragon has spawned for you two kill”. Then the ravens (players) camped out at the spawn site kill it. Instead, stage two would require wandering around the map with harpoons or something else to bring it down. This might also be done through the coordination of several anti-air build and defend sites. Once the anti air section of the fight has taken place the dragon is ‘downed’ or ‘caged’ to a corner of the map (i.e. where the fights take place already). This ‘downed’ stage would be stage 3. In Stage 3 the dragon moves around, rather than stands and dies – as is currently the case. The dragon then preforms several variations of a fight (not just one kind) and is eventually killed.
Something like this would solves the world boss epic-static-landmine issue they currently are. This is what I call all creatures in GW 2 for the most part: static-landmines. The creatures rarely have any sort of pathing. They are simply spaced in such a way that fighting one creature is just outside the argo range of any other, but after its defeat the distance between where the creature spawned to the point of its agro radius is half the distance to the next creature. So, they’re just landmines and not actually meaningful encounters in any way.
I would like to note that you do not need to destroy a city when attacking it.
The Grove, Rata Sum, Divinity’s Reach, Black Citadel, and Lion’s Arch were each assaulted in the personal story. All survived. In Season 1, DR was also assaulted directly (Clockwork Chaos), and during Season 2, The Grove was assaulted – again, both survived.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Or flatten Black Citadel and take back Rin! Commander, to me!
#rememberAscalon
#rememberwewereinAscalonfirstuntilyourgodsstoleitmeat.
Technically Calcifire, charr were not in Ascalon first, but seconds. :P
They took it from the grawl and, as it’s implied, dwarves less than a lifespan before humans took it from charr.
Yes, that’s right. The first Khan-Ur saw the conquest of Ascalon… and his death saw the conquest of Ascalon.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Or flatten Black Citadel and take back Rin! Commander, to me!
#rememberAscalon
#rememberwewereinAscalonfirstuntilyourgodsstoleitmeat.
The Charr also ‘stole’ it. So the Charr’s claim on Ascalon is just as invalid as humanity’s claim.
Back to topic:
I think it’s better to attack the Black Citadel instead, because it’s one gigantic fortress. Heck, even the inns have gigantic cannons on them. It will be so epic.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
(edited by Windu The Forbidden One.6045)
The fact that near Ebonhawke is the path that leads to Crystal Desert makes the OP statement convenient isnt it? Something for future expansion of the story. Food for tought.
Drop Acid Not Bombs (Richie Hawtin)
Not sure how it’s convenient at all, tbh.
It’s not like we destroyed the Grove just to relocate the sylvari city into the Heart of Maguuma.
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Eh, I can see Ebonhawke becoming a base of operations for forays in the Crystal Desert to take on Kralkatorrik’s forces and open a path to Elona. He was next on the Pact’s list of dragons until Mordremoth decided to interrupt our planned party there.
kitten dragon being an kitten …
Anyway, that’s neither here, nor there. Something for the future though.
kitten for cities getting attacked, well, let’s have a world event where all of them get attacked by the Mordrem!
- This is a forum, expect logic to get left at the door, beaten bloody, and set on fire.
- The more asinine the post or thread, the more I am amused.
- The more asinine the post or thread, the more I am amused.
I didn’t realize this would generate so much discussion!
I like the flow the post here. It’s revealing to the complexities of executing this in reality. That’s probably the trouble with games verses books or other modes of experiencing a fiction. Games are much less a fiction in that there’s real lives involved in the making of this that go well beyond a single author and their associates. The livelihood of the devs depends on this, those people involved in the writing of all the games news, forums, etc. That’s barely discussing it really. There’s the cost of actually maintaining all of this. The huge amounts of time it takes to built a viable map, new mesh, modify old and new mesh, test it, do it all again, test it… etc.
I like the idea the Ebonhawke are essentially camping the gates of Elona, but I loath how comfy and snobby everything about Divinty’s Reach is in the story. It’s really like a golden parachute existence inside Divinity’s Reach while just outside of it every single Krytan village is under threat by Centaur. I have never known farmers to put up with that sort of thing very long. So, either the Centaur need to die or Divinity’s Reach needs to have a Révolution française. I’m personally more in favor of the latter, but I really do love those moments when some truly unannounced meteorite strike annihilates a descendant population in the middle of their Waltz.
Maybe Divinity’s Reach cut be on the back of a giant turtle dragon who suddenly gets up and slumps off into the lack, depositing the whole capital into the sea above. Immediately following it could be realized it was all along just digging out a nest for itself, the babies hatch and eat all the survivors. That’d be an ironic and beautiful way to wave off humanity.
I’m really serious. I think it would be a great story to say, “Well, in Guild Wars 2 humanity is an endangered species” or even “Doomed for extinction.” That’d leave the refugees to settle in Ebonhawke or even the Norn capital. It’d be powerfully ironic that the ‘people’ to take on the human legacy would be the Norn. In fact it’d be a real upgrade for the general state of modern myths which is always vectored in on the “state” and “political tyranny” as an ideal.
I love killing Charr, but honestly they’re in a good place right now. They’ve got themselves sorted out and really contribute to Tyria valiantly. They’ve gotten as far as we ever have in the modern age, too. Including airships which we’ve so far failed to capitalize on because we haven’t a single realized romantic notion left in real life to fix our imaginations upon. No, leave the Charr be. Let humanity go into the fossil record. It’d be a good moral to the story of our real lives to have that happen in a game.
DR already met destruction, remember The Great Collapse?
And let Ebonhawke be for the Ascalonians. No need for those meddling Krytians with their ‘Queen’ and armies of Ministers.
Lady Cerba, Ascalonian Priestess of Grenth
- Piken Square, [REN][DKAL]
- Piken Square, [REN][DKAL]
Or flatten Black Citadel and take back Rin! Commander, to me!
#rememberAscalon
+1!