Eir: my opinion of her has changed - disappointed
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The circumstances need to be put into a little bit of perspective. To quote Olaf Olafson from Guild Wars 1…
Among our people, it is a great honor for an individual to stand above all others, to be recognized as the best at their life’s calling. But it is perhaps a greater honor to find the person who is your equal: the one who matches your every move, who you can never overshadow, and who you would never want to. To join with the one worthy of sharing in our hunt is a rare and blessed occasion, and we have gathered here today to witness such a union.
Norn only marry equals. This cannot be overstressed. While there may be plenty of baby making going on between all sorts across the Shiverpeaks, Norn marriages are more of a rarity.
Braham is seventeen. The present day is 1326 AE. Braham’s father died in 1316 and was considered a legendary hero at the time, and the birth must have been around 1308-1309 (depending on the months). Destiny’s Edge was founded in 1319 and fought against Kralk in 1320. Using this timekeeping, there is a simple conjecture.
Eir did not raise Braham because she was unequal to Borje the Sun Chaser at the time of their union.
Borje clearly thought the world of her and believed she was capable of great things, but she was not a legendary hero when their son was born. Norn tradition would therefore disagree with a renowned hero becoming partnered with a lesser individual, and thus the two of them did not raise Braham together. Borje took the boy, since he believed that Eir would be free to forge her own legend, a hope which was fulfilled by the founding of Destiny’s Edge.
I would advise against projecting human values directly on to Eir and finding her at fault for not being a “proper” mother figure for Braham. In the context of her people, Eir’s choice was the lonely yet appropriate one according to the standards of Norn culture and tradition. We may not like it, and she probably does not like it either, but that is their way, misguided though it may seem.
Context is everything.
(edited by Shriketalon.1937)
Why do people keep putting culture and maternal instincts (nature) together? How does being a Norn have ANYTHING to do with her having emotions?
Fun fact: there is at least one African culture where the father is more “maternal” in emotion than the mother – with the mother not taking the maternity leave, because the father takes care of the child, and the father is more emotional about the children than the mother – e.g., a complete opposite of standard cultures, despite being biologically the same.
I wonder who’s mixing culture and maternal instincts together…
Her being norn has a lot to do with emotions. Just like our culture has a lot to do with whether men “have emotions” or not – because a lot of modern cultures look down on men being “emotional” because it’s “girly” (fact: WRONG).
Dear ANet writers,
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Stop treating GW2 as a single story. Each Season and expansion should be their own story.
Not sure if anyone remembers this, but the Norn were originally solitary hunters. The very notion of them rallying together to fight something was unnatural and they gave Ogden Stonehealer many headaches 250 years ago when he tried to get them to fight together against the great destroyer.
Hoelbrek is sort of miraculous in it’s own way and was created more out of necessity due to the emergence of the Elder Dragons. Even within it’s walls the Norn emphasize personal bravery and glory by proving themselves in a hunt or in battle. Braham seems like he’s dedicated to freeing the people of his home and Eir sounded like she wanted him to stay within Hoelbrek where he would be better protected.
I don’t think she neglected him because she wanted to either, keep in mind she is a great hero of the norn and is concerned most of all with defeating the dragons. She probably didn’t have time to take care of him because of her convictions and conflict may have risen between them because of it. I don’t think that makes her a bad person either, but it certainly adds more complexity to her situation.
I just read Shriketalon’s post. Lots of interesting ideas there and it makes a great deal of sense. Though I’m not sure I agree that the Norn only marry someone who has achieved an equal amount of glory as themselves. I think he was referring more to the happy union between Gwen and Keiran, who are incidentally not Norn themselves.
(edited by Zhaneel.9208)
I just read Shriketalon’s post. Lots of interesting ideas there and it makes a great deal of sense. Though I’m not sure I agree that the Norn only marry someone who has achieved an equal amount of glory as themselves. I think he was referring more to the happy union between Gwen and Keiran, who are incidentally not Norn themselves.
If I may direct you to Bear Club for Women/Men and the Prenuptial Disagreement quest that follows it, in which the mighty Norn Olaf Olafson decides that your female hero is clearly the ideal mother of his future Norn babies / the valiant Olrun Olafdottir deems your male hero an ideal companion to rub her bunion-ridden feet…
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.
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Olaf Olafson
We are alike you and I. Our tales are legend across the land. We are both fierce warriors, born leaders…and lonely heroes seeking love. We are destined to be family, you and I. I see many large, strapping, and unruly boys to continue the Olaf tradition in our future!
It is Norn custom that marriage can only happen between those of equal reputation. All your hard work has paid off! Now we can be wed, raise a dozen half-Norn children, and live in the mountains. I have a strong cottage in the hills. Actually, it isn’t much of a cottage…more of a cave. But it is a good cave! A good cave in dire need of cleaning. You’re not afraid of spiders, are you? Dire spiders?
After we are wed, we shall hunt the leviathan together as equals. I suppose if we waited too long, you’d run off and smite the creature yourself, you thrill seeker! I can’t let you go off and hog all the glory, lest you leave my side and marry someone of even greater fame.
Post Quest——
What? You… you have defeated the leviathan? My wife’s murderer? This cannot be! An outrage! That task was ours! Because of your insatiable blood thirst, your reputation eclipses mine. Now I am doomed to a life of shame…and loneliness! I cannot be seen with you, much less marry you. Leave my sight so I may wallow in misery. And to think I wanted you to mother many, many, many children…
This thread makes very unfortunate assumptions that I am compelled to address. The first is that Norn isn’t Human. I know that should be obvious, but Norn are a different species altogether; just like how countless animals in real life give birth and then abandon their young, there is no reason why we should project our own personal ethics and morals onto another race. I would argue that calling Norn a ‘terrible mother’ is very presumptuous and pretty ignorant.
Many Norn children elsewhere in the lore leave as early as they can to start their legends and make their own fate. Eir and Braham clearly aren’t very close, and Braham does seem to slightly resent Eir, but Eir is likely facing a lot of cultural barriers that make her want to give Braham his space to develop his own legend, and countless other things that we can’t begin to comprehend as humans. It’s also important to consider Eir’s own legend and goals; she can’t raise a kid while fighting Claws of Jormag, Destroyer of Worlds, Kralkatorrik, and Zhaitan, and other stuff.
Anyway, please don’t project your own feelings about what motherhood should be onto another culture / species. It is—and I mean this with no offense—belligerent, ignorant, and naive, and hopefully now you can see why.
I always think it’s funny when someone says they mean something with no offense, then say something that could be offensive. Yes, you meant it.
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