Guild Wars 2

So after completing the first living story…I have to say this.

ArenaNet; you’ve completely ruined Eir Stegalkin for me by introducing Braham and finishing the story on the same disappointing note that it started with.

When he was first introduced; I was already skeptical at the idea of Eir having a son, let alone one so old. On top of this NONE of the other members of Destiny’s Edge knew either, which is most definitely going to change their relationship with Eir in the coming expansions.

The final straw was that the story ended with Eir admitting that Braham is indeed her son and that he went to live with his father because they both thought it would be best for him. This flat out admitted that Eir was a negligent parent…Even after the father died; she never even sent him a letter acknowledging his existence…

Eir was my favorite member of Destiny’s Edge, despite her not having a unique voice actor. She came off as a deep introvert, who was starting to break out of her shell with her guild. Please; restore her to her former glory, she deserves better than this.

In real life, people who are considered to be visionaries or “legends” have complex lives when you examine them. Although they excel in one area, they typically fall in another.

Eir, in my opinion, is such a person. It doesn’t make her any less great, it only makes her more complicated and realistic. Besides, her whole story of assuming all guilt for the death of Snaff was pretty weak and boring.

Please remember that the Norn have different Moralities and Ethics than we in the real world do then again we all make mistakes don’t be so judgy mcjudgen-pants over this until everything is finished. Her having a son under these circumstances makes her seem more “human” and less legendary.

As a mom (and I’m guessing I’m probably in the minority here), just wanted to say that I’m a little bummed you guys would roll out a story line about Eir being a crappy mom just a couple of weeks before Mother’s day. Yes, I realize that Mother’s day isn’t a holiday in Tyria….but if it was…I would give Brahm a freaking hug.

Not every story has to end on a happy note. I think we will see great things come from Braham. I hope he goes back and rebuilds Cragstead without the help of Hoelbrak. I am sure Braham and Eir will continue this story line. I mean it is a living story after all. Let’s give them some time to think this through.

Do Norn even raise their children? Maybe they’re like rabbits and they just leave them in a hole somewhere with a little food and a terrible abandonment complex.

Okay, that made me laugh! Seriously though, Norn women are blessed with lots of….baby food. Unless they’re born and given ale and meat right out of the gate….I suppose that wouldn’t surprise me.

Mother’s Day has been denounced by its own founder for its rampant commercialization. She spent the rest of her life trying to undo it. Just saying ’cause you brought it up.

Oh geesh, here we go again. This is just as bad as the thread that flipped out over the evil dolls from Tixx during Wintersday, saying that it was “in poor taste to have players shooting dolls with fake guns, just after the Newtown shooting happened.”

1) This is a video game.

2) Events and content are made week to months in advanced.

3) We already knew Braham had issues with his mom Eir back in March when they did the Razing content.

Please, take no offense to my post, but your post shows a stretch of the imagination in linking the unlinkable…..

Siphaed.9235:

Oh geesh, here we go again. This is just as bad as the thread that flipped out….

Please, take no offense to my post, but your post shows a stretch of the imagination in linking the unlinkable…..

First off….I’m not “flipping out”…so calm yourself down a bit.

Secondly…how is a mother abandoning her son to pursue her own agenda NOT linkable to a day that moms are usually celebrated on?

I realize that this story line has been building ever since Brahm was first introduced but I’m sure that they knew this installment was going to be released at the beginning of May.

I’m hoping that there will be some sappy reunite and Eir honestly tries to make amends with her son. She did miss out on his entire upbringing (though, he does have a great heart for a kid that lost both of his parents at such a young age).

So, because Eir is actually, you know, “human,” and makes mistakes like the rest of us, she isn’t worthy of your praise anymore? kitten happens. People do stupid things. Look at Logan; he was a worthless mercenary before becoming who he is now, always living in his brother’s shadow. Rytlock had his issues as well, just as much before as well as after the events of Edge of Destiny. Zojja lost her master, the one person in the world she looked up to and revered, the one person who could keep her under control. I’d say the only one without super duper complexities is Caithe, and that’s because her race is so young, but even she has her issues with her beloved falling to Nightmare. Don’t try and tell me that the members of Destiny’s Edge are perfect people, because they aren’t. If anything, I like Eir even more now. Makes her seem much less of a kitten, and the fact that none of the DE members know about her having a son meant that she was ashamed enough of it happening, that she knew it was a mistake she made when she was young and haughty, that she never spoke of it.

It just doesn’t logically make sense for Eir to have a son by birth. The fact that no one in Hoelbrak knew she even had one, let alone Destiny’s Edge is a pretty fairly large plot hole. It was entirely shoe-horned into the story. She didn’t even acknowledge she had a son till Cragstead was burned to the ground and he barged into Hoelbrak AFTER Rytlock told him to pretty much “F” off; but Braham wanted his friends, family and love interest back, so he went to Knut. Apparently ONLY then, did the entirety of Hoelbrak know that the famous Eir Stegalkin had a child. Another ironic epiphany that lends itself to the mystery that is Braham, is that his father was also said to have been very famous; thus word of his death would have spread like wildfire, reaching Hoelbrak that much sooner. The story could have had so much more depth if they would have simply made Braham her step-child. That would actually lend itself to the fact that he only came to Hoebrak as a last resort, because he didn’t want to interact with the woman who had a very complex relationship with his father.

As far as Eir being any different from Humans in terms of maternal instincts…You clearly don’t know how defensive women can be over their child. She is a Norn woman; that is a given, why could/should that affect how a parent feels about their child? It’s not a constant, but even most species of animals care for their young. Eir obviously has emotions and feelings like EVERYONE else. Why do you think she fell into such a deep depression after the whole Kralkatorrik incident? She clearly felt very responsible for what happened to Snaff; Zojja was emotionally compromised as well, which is why she blamed Eir’s plan for failing, simply adding salt to the already open wound. That is why I really do not believe Eir could think of just “abandoning” her child; it doesn’t seem to be her nature. The lore also states that Eir raised Garm from a young pup, and that he thought of her as the Alpha. So essentially, the story writers have pretty much stated that Eir loves her pet/partner wolf, more than her flesh and blood son. Regardless of her being a Norn; she’s still a mother, first and foremost.

By all means; I want them to give her more character depth (As well as a unique voice actor), but I want them to do so logically. The writers have already stated that she is a fierce woman, an artist and a great strategist. It’s even been said that Garm thinks of her as the alpha in their small “pack.” I would love to find out more about Eir as a woman; aside from making people (like myself) fall in love with her; make her into a role model that women (or anyone else) can aspire to be.

Aura.9530:

…make her into a role model that women (or anyone else) can aspire to be.

Cheer up, you still have Gwen!

(Yes, I’m just kidding. Please don’t grow up to be like Gwen, anyone.)

Looking at both Eir and at Braham, Eir was, more likely than not, very young when she had the child. Now, shows like sixteen and pregnant aside, a parent at that age very rarely will decide to keep the child and will do their best to make sure that that child is in the best care possible. If both Eir and Braham’s father reached that decision together, then everything Eir’s done, as well as keeping it hidden, is completely logical. Also, the fact that no one in Hoelbrak knows is completely possible; the Norn are an adventurous people, and if Eir had disappeared for a bit on some sort of venture, no one would think twice, would they? The thing is, we know very little about Eir’s personal history. Her choice to give up Braham may not have been the best for her emotionally but it was the best choice for him, at the time. Furthermore, the reluctance that she displays is completely logical; it’s hard to enter someone’s life that you should have known the entirety of it, especially when you see that they’re so far progressed and able to make their own decisions. It’s a pretty common story, adopted children finding their birth parents and having difficulty assimilating themselves into their parents lives because by now, they’ve become different people.

And, who’s to say that part of Eir’s introverted personality doesn’t come from this? or the fact that she raised Garm as a form of longing for the motherhood she should have had? There are a lot of factors to this that simply aren’t accounted for, but I by no means think that it’s a plot-hole.

Also, I never meant to imply that she was different from humans in terms of her maternal instincts. The quotation marks were simple for the fact that we call them human emotions but Eir is not, in fact, a human.

I thought it was established that Eir is something like in her 60s or older, since she was around when Hoelbrek was initially being expanded.

If so, I’d still assume she was quite mature as an adult (perhaps just before her prime) when she had Braham. I dunno, I haven’t done any of the new living story stuff. If it does end on the same note it began that is a bit disheartening. Well, not all heroes are perfect…I already prefer her over boring Caithe and the annoying whiny Zoja.

But yeah, what’s up with her taking care of Garm this whole time but not her own son? I guess Garm is probably younger than Braham though…like 8 years old maybe 10?

Don’t leap to conclusions yet concerning Eir and Braham, their relationship and their history. We still don’t know much about the details.

A few key points though:

- Eir didnt find out Braham’s father had died till probably quite recently. Borje forbid anyone from letting Eir know he had died. There is a short story about this.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/brahams-story/

- Braham is 17. In the recent situation her hope was to keep him safe which is why she wanted him to stay in Hoelbrak. Hes not even an adult yet. As for Eir, she had to chose where she placed herself to protect people. If the Molten Allaince was preparing a major attack on Hoelbrak then she would have been desperately needed in Hoelbrak if the attack came. If she was in Cragstead at the time she would be too far away to do any good.

- Eir was younger and not well known as much more than a sculptor back when she had Braham. She has made her legend only really in the last 7 years or so. Borje was probably far more famous than she was. Its not suprising that someone of little renown who has had little contact with her son would be widely known as having a son.

- Braham wasnt abandoned. The family that raised him after his father died he probably knew far better and was far closer to than Eir.

Also a note on Caithe. I found her very interesting. Caithe’s challange was dealing with loneliness and hopelessness. She struggled with an seemingly impossible mission and no matter what she did, it seemed she kept ending up having to face those threats alone. After doing ‘A light in the Darkness’ personal story mission I wanted to go out and slap all the members of Destiny’s Edge and tell them all how crappy they were as friends.

Do we know that Eir “abandoned” her son? We only know that he lived with his father. But there are a whole lot of possibilities about why that might have been.

I once had a character in a story who had a son, who he didn’t see anymore. The mother moved away and hid the child. He had no idea where the child was. He had no way to find them.

Without knowing more, I don’t know that I’d be so fast to judge Eir.

Vayne.8563:

Do we know that Eir “abandoned” her son? We only know that he lived with his father. But there are a whole lot of possibilities about why that might have been.

<snip>

Without knowing more, I don’t know that I’d be so fast to judge Eir.

Your mother’s name is Eir Stegalkin. Remember that, but I will tell you what I told Yngvi and Brynhildr. No one must send word to your mother that I am gone. I forbid it. She is capable of great things, as are you. She must not be tempted to stray from her path. Wolf walks beside her. But you mustn’t worry. He walks beside you as well, my son. Never forget that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/brahams-story/

Sounds to me that the parents split amicably…dad took on the responsibility of raising their son so mom could fulfill her destiny of saving the world.

Manoa.5897:

Vayne.8563:

Do we know that Eir “abandoned” her son? We only know that he lived with his father. But there are a whole lot of possibilities about why that might have been.

<snip>

Without knowing more, I don’t know that I’d be so fast to judge Eir.

Your mother’s name is Eir Stegalkin. Remember that, but I will tell you what I told Yngvi and Brynhildr. No one must send word to your mother that I am gone. I forbid it. She is capable of great things, as are you. She must not be tempted to stray from her path. Wolf walks beside her. But you mustn’t worry. He walks beside you as well, my son. Never forget that.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/brahams-story/

Sounds to me that the parents split amicably…dad took on the responsibility of raising their son so mom could fulfill her destiny of saving the world.

Thanks for posting that. I hadn’t read that before. It fills in a gap.

But Eir, before she decided to take on dragons, was just living in Hoelbrak and sculpting. She wasn’t actively hunting dragons when her son was born. At least I think that’s the timing.

It’s possible though, that she’d be sick at that time, or injured and that the father moved away with the child. In fact, it sounds like the father has some kind of fore-knowledge of what would come and encourage this.

And of course it’s dangerous to judge norn by human standards. They look like humans…but they’re not human. I suspect there’s a whole lot less nurturing going on there.

This thread makes very unfortunate assumptions that I am compelled to address. The first is that Norn isn’t Human. I know that should be obvious, but Norn are a different species altogether; just like how countless animals in real life give birth and then abandon their young, there is no reason why we should project our own personal ethics and morals onto another race. I would argue that calling Norn a ‘terrible mother’ is very presumptuous and pretty ignorant.

Many Norn children elsewhere in the lore leave as early as they can to start their legends and make their own fate. Eir and Braham clearly aren’t very close, and Braham does seem to slightly resent Eir, but Eir is likely facing a lot of cultural barriers that make her want to give Braham his space to develop his own legend, and countless other things that we can’t begin to comprehend as humans. It’s also important to consider Eir’s own legend and goals; she can’t raise a kid while fighting Claws of Jormag, Destroyer of Worlds, Kralkatorrik, and Zhaitan, and other stuff.

Anyway, please don’t project your own feelings about what motherhood should be onto another culture / species. It is—and I mean this with no offense—belligerent, ignorant, and naive, and hopefully now you can see why.

Rising Dusk.2408:

This thread makes very unfortunate assumptions that I am compelled to address. The first is that Norn isn’t Human. I know that should be obvious, but Norn are a different species altogether; just like how countless animals in real life give birth and then abandon their young, there is no reason why we should project our own personal ethics and morals onto another race. I would argue that calling Norn a ‘terrible mother’ is very presumptuous and pretty ignorant.

Many Norn children elsewhere in the lore leave as early as they can to start their legends and make their own fate. Eir and Braham clearly aren’t very close, and Braham does seem to slightly resent Eir, but Eir is likely facing a lot of cultural barriers that make her want to give Braham his space to develop his own legend, and countless other things that we can’t begin to comprehend as humans. It’s also important to consider Eir’s own legend and goals; she can’t raise a kid while fighting Claws of Jormag, Destroyer of Worlds, Kralkatorrik, and Zhaitan, and other stuff.

Anyway, please don’t project your own feelings about what motherhood should be onto another culture / species. It is—and I mean this with no offense—belligerent, ignorant, and naive, and hopefully now you can see why.

^
this, pretty much this.

Norn are just like that they would much prefer to have the environment raise there kids. Think of them as living in nature and by letting there kids “play” in nature they learn the ways of living. The price that comes with this is the seemingly weaker family bounds.

I pretty much echo Rising Dusk’s thoughts, but with one more addendum to add.

The Norn people seem very close knit to the point that the care of raising children is a community affair. This is pretty common amongst a number of nomadic cultures throughout history. Yes the parents are important, but the tribe, troop, band, whatever, is the actual family they’re raised by in this case.

Go to Taigan Groves (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Taigan_Groves) and you’ll see what I mean. While those kids do identify with their parents, the care and protection is a community affair.

Eir has been notable since before 7 years ago; which makes it that much more confusing about why she said she was young such. Her father was one of the great heroes of Jormag’s invasion of the north, so she has always been in the spotlight. The fact that Braham is 17 is also very odd; considering, like someone said earlier, Eir was around when Hoelbrak was just starting to blossom into a real settlement.

Caithe isn’t really a “good guy”, in the Sylvari personal story she kills a defenseless prisoner after promising him mercy. No heat of the moment killing, or defensive struggle. He gave us the info we wanted and then she offs him like some mobster. None of destiny’s edge are really good people. Rytlock is the most acceptable and he’s got a short fuse and ten Charr’s worth of attitude.

BoomSeal.4058:

Caithe isn’t really a “good guy”, in the Sylvari personal story she kills a defenseless prisoner after promising him mercy. No heat of the moment killing, or defensive struggle. He gave us the info we wanted and then she offs him like some mobster. None of destiny’s edge are really good people. Rytlock is the most acceptable and he’s got a short fuse and ten Charr’s worth of attitude.

I dunno. I have people telling me Zojja is the most awesome member of Destiny’s Edge often, when I let slip I would gladly shove her into a wood chipper.

. . . and no, I don’t even like her when I was playing around on my Asura Engineer.

The final straw was that the story ended with Eir admitting that Braham is indeed her son and that he went to live with his father because they both thought it would be best for him. This flat out admitted that Eir was a negligent parent.

WOW, how rude of you! Are you trolling, or just rude? I hope you’re trolling, because I can’t imagine anyone would say something so ignorant.

If you’re a slave mother and the father is a noble, clearly it’s better to have the father raise him so the child will have a better quality of live and more opportunities.

If you’re a mother with a condition that prevents you from working, isn’t it better to give the child to his father to raise? Or would you make your young child sit on the street begging for money, and making him work so much to provide for both of you?

I don’t know what Eir’s situation was. But even if it was that she “just couldn’t be bothered to raise a child” (as I imagine you picture it), atleast she was honest with herself. So HIS FATHER raised him, not a complete stranger on the street. Nothing wrong with that!

In essence, without knowing the whole situation, it’s the same as if she’d given her child up for adoption. Nothing wrong with that.

If Eir had raised the child without his father, would you say the father is negligent?
So what’s wrong with Braham having his own father raise him? He’s his father too, why does the burden and shame have to fall on Eir?

Don’t forget that you’re looking at this from your perspective. Not all of the world thinks the way you do, specially in a video game or book where you can create an entirely different culture.

Eir was my favorite member of Destiny’s Edge, despite her not having a unique voice actor. She came off as a deep introvert, who was starting to break out of her shell with her guild.

She’s my favorite too… not that I think she’s really cool, it’s just that compared to the other DE losers, she’s actually a little cool ;-) (I still have to do sylvari story, though, I’ll see about Caithe)

Please; restore her to her former glory, she deserves better than this.

She didn’t lose any of her glory.

Don’t forget that different peoples/tribes have different cultures. What might be wrong to you, might be good to another person.

Most people, if they saw a severely wounded animal (obvious that it’s in a lot of pain and is going to die), would grab him and rush him to the vet.

Me? I would end the animals life right there and then.

You might think I’m cruel for doing this, but I’m doing it to spare the animal from more pain. If you take it to the vet, even IF you save his life, it’s likely that he’ll still be in pain and with less quality of life forever.

It’s the same reason why I think if a person’s condition is so bad that even though they’re alive, they’re not living and they’re not themselves anymore (severe dementia for example), they should have the right to humanely terminate their own life (euthanasia).
But most people think it’s cruel when I say that… to me, it’s cruel to prolong life when you’re not really living.

TL;DR:
It’s all relative.

It’s funny to me when someone says “..no offense..” and then becomes offensive. For the record here, I said she was a “crappy” mom not a “terrible” one. Obviously there might be a legitimate reason for her departure that we haven’t been given the story on. I believe I followed up my post with a reply that said something along the lines of hopefully seeing some retribution on Eir’s side.

I forgot how unfriendly this place was. I’ll stop posting now, thanks for reminding me guys.

Best mom was Rox. She took her pet, which was a baby, into a dangerous factory where it could be cooked to death. Heck, she loved it so much, that when it died on the boss platform, and we allrespawned but the pet, she would run across that bridge to nurse him to health, despite it triggering the boss and teleporting us into the ring…

Solbrio.1902:

It’s funny to me when someone says “..no offense..” and then becomes offensive. For the record here, I said she was a “crappy” mom not a “terrible” one. Obviously there might be a legitimate reason for her departure that we haven’t been given the story on. I believe I followed up my post with a reply that said something along the lines of hopefully seeing some retribution on Eir’s side.

I forgot how unfriendly this place was. I’ll stop posting now, thanks for reminding me guys.

crappy and terrible is pretty much the same thing.
And it my opinion she’s neither. She had a loved one, they broke up, she made the decision to allow the kid to live with the parent that will be able to take care of the kid better. Nothing crappy about that.

I think the Pale Tree’s a worse mother than Eir, actually. That’s even taking into account she’s giving them 25 years worth of knowledge at birth. : / How many children is she churning out annually?

Rising Dusk stated it quite well. Norn ideas of childrearing are quite different to those of humans; a Norn homestead will normally play host to anywhere from one to maybe a dozen families, depending on its size. All of the lodge’s inhabitants share in the upkeep and maintenance of the homestead, whether it’s through hunting for food, building and repair-work, or looking after the children of the homestead. They live in a much more tribal, communal style rather than the nuclear families we’re used to nowadays.

With that in mind, I don’t think it odd that Braham was raised by Borje and the members of his homestead. Perhaps Borje and Eir came to an agreement (or in true Norn fashion, had a contest) to see which of them would settle down to raise their child, while the other went on to continue building their legend.

Braham’s father expressly forbade anyone, including Braham, from contacting Eir after his death. So you can’t really pull the horrible mother card out, when she had no idea. If she did know, she would have taken him in. It’s in her nature. Now though, she’s in a hard place for a mother. Braham is almost of age, and while she wants what’s best for him (being safe and not risking your life); she really can’t tell him what to do. Not to mention, they don’t have much of a relationship to build trust on yet.

Borje, Braham’s father, had the right idea though. Can you imagine Destiny’s Edge in their glory days with a 10-12 year old tag along? They probably wouldn’t have even existed, because Eir wouldn’t have formed it. She would have likely stayed in Hoelbrek to raise Braham. That and fighting the Elder Dragons and their champions… not the best place to raise a child.

“Sweetie. You stay here, while mommy and her friends fight the giant crystal dragon out to destroy the world. Watch out for its breath… and its tail. Everyone forgets about that. In case we all wipe and die, leaving you an orphan, you know your way home right?”

Aura.9530:

So after completing the first living story…I have to say this.

ArenaNet; you’ve completely ruined Eir Stegalkin for me by introducing Braham and finishing the story on the same disappointing note that it started with.

When he was first introduced; I was already skeptical at the idea of Eir having a son, let alone one so old. On top of this NONE of the other members of Destiny’s Edge knew either, which is most definitely going to change their relationship with Eir in the coming expansions.

The final straw was that the story ended with Eir admitting that Braham is indeed her son and that he went to live with his father because they both thought it would be best for him. This flat out admitted that Eir was a negligent parent…Even after the father died; she never even sent him a letter acknowledging his existence…

Eir was my favorite member of Destiny’s Edge, despite her not having a unique voice actor. She came off as a deep introvert, who was starting to break out of her shell with her guild. Please; restore her to her former glory, she deserves better than this.

1. Eir is something like 40 years old.
2. She had a romance with a man she loved, but they parted ways. I would imagine that giving the boy a childhood with a parent that’s not a hero, is not targeted and doesn’t have to leave the boy in order to fight dragons was a logical decision.
3. If her son knew where she is, didn’t it occur to you that he might not want contact with her?

1. Eir is MUCH older than 40; she was young when Hoelbrak was being re-constructed into what we see in game from an encampment settlement.
2. Both Eir and Borje were very famous, not JUST Eir.
3. Eir started to make her own legend by defeating Jormag’s brood; BEFORE she even joined Destiny’s Edge.
4. We’re getting into the same dichotomy that Logan got crap for. She knew that Borje had Braham; but instead of taking care of her son, she decided it would be better to bolster her reputation by killing Jormag spawn and other dragon minions.
5. Despite both parents being known for being great warriors; apparently the journey to Cragstead was too hard on the old Borje (=P).
6. I was at least hoping the Eir, Braham thing would SORT of come to some kind of a close. An awkward cut scene where they Eir can actually be shown as a mother and not just giving him the cold shoulder; which she’s done for the entirety of this living story. Closure; that could have made me accept this more gracefully, but there wasn’t any.

Aura.9530:

So after completing the first living story…I have to say this.

It’s not necessarily over, there’s still the epilogue to come.

Aura.9530:

Please; restore her to her former glory, she deserves better than this.

Former glory? Oh, you mean her guild dissolving because of all the guild drama she couldn’t curtail?

Aura.9530:

It just doesn’t logically make sense for Eir to have a son by birth.

Would it have been more logical for her to offspring to be birthed in some hatching chamber or grown in a beaker in some laboratory?

lorazcyk.8927:

WOW, how rude of you! Are you trolling, or just rude? I hope you’re trolling, because I can’t imagine anyone would say something so ignorant.

Wow, calm down. You’re acting as if someone just personally insulted your dearest friend.

Actually, my mother died 5 years ago during the week that the US celebrates Mother’s day. I am going to find Life’s forum and type out a really angry post at the inappropriateness of the timing.

… yeah.

Aura.9530:

6. I was at least hoping the Eir, Braham thing would SORT of come to some kind of a close. An awkward cut scene where they Eir can actually be shown as a mother and not just giving him the cold shoulder; which she’s done for the entirety of this living story. Closure; that could have made me accept this more gracefully, but there wasn’t any.

Here’s the only part I wish to touch right now.

Because I didn’t read it as a cold shoulder plain and simple, I saw it as her not having any idea exactly what to do here. She doesn’t know her son that well, he’s very independent and headstrong rather than listening to her (due to only really knowing her by the legends I take it), and in general . . . she wants what’s best but doesn’t know how to express herself.

At least she didn’t sit him down, look him straight in the eye, and say “you’re no son of mine”.

Keep in mind a few things. Firstly, Braham was 11 or 12 when she met Snaff and Zojja in 1319 AE (6 years prior to now, 1325, depending on what time of the year they met and when Braham was born, he’d be 11 or 12). Eir hasn’t seen him since he was a baby, more or less, so even at that point she probably didn’t even know Braham was alive still, might not have even known about Borje’s death given the short story.

Secondly, know that Eir is a person who suffers from self-esteem issues. This has been established from the very getgo of knowing who Eir was. If you read Edge of Destiny and/or did the dungeon story modes, or even played as a norn, you’d know this easily. It took the meeting of Snaff and Zojja for Eir to get out of her homestead and into doing what she truly wanted to do ever since her father was killed: fight the Elder Dragons and their minions (specifically though, kill the Dragonspawn). Almost every major action she takes – forming Destiny’s Edge, going after Jormag (blocked by failing to crack Jormag’s tooth), rejoining Destiny’s Edge… all of it – she needs to get pushed into starting. The reason why she’s a legend isn’t because she goes out of her way to do things – it’s because when she gets pushed in the right direction, she does kitten incredible things.

Her not telling Destiny’s Edge or Knut Whitebear about her son fits PERFECTLY into her personality that was built from the very beginning.

But also keep in mind that she is not a human, she is norn. Norn do not have the full sense of family that humans do. Knut’s wife, for example, doesn’t live with the rest of the family despite them all still being “together” – she’s always out hunting and adventuring. This is commonplace for norn, to not remain together. So Eir is in no way a “bad parent” in the least – she’s just a “norn parent.” Probably every three norn out of five do the same thing Eir did.

If you ask me – if they did what the Aura wanted, with some touching family moment, THAT would have ruined Eir. It would have turned her from being a norn to just being a tall and too-busty human.

Maybe Eir got her ideas of raising kids from the charr? My vote also goes for Rox being the best mom for adopting Frostbite.

All I really got out of this was that norns are pretty terrible at supporting neighboring settlements.

Tawa.3180:

Maybe Eir got her ideas of raising kids from the charr? My vote also goes for Rox being the best mom for adopting Frostbite.

All I really got out of this was that norns are pretty terrible at supporting neighboring settlements.

They sent SIX Norns to assist the Dwarves in fighting the Great Destroyer. And that was an army. I think they underestimate every threat and are in it for their personal glory.

Parents split up all the time, and mostly the kids live with one of them. To say that one HAS to be the mother is a bit backwards, don’t you think?

If any male NPC’s estranged child would make an appearance, would there have been forum posts about him being a bad father?

ô_ó

Why do people keep putting culture and maternal instincts (nature) together? How does being a Norn have ANYTHING to do with her having emotions?

I like her development. It shows that even if she is a kickbutt Ranger she still screws up from time to time.

Besides, as much as I hate to say it, it would have been worse on the boy if she was a horrible mother and stayed.

Visit the lodge near Taigan Groves waypoint, seems like a common practice to foster Norn children. I agree with the OP, it has changed how I view Eir. Does it cast her in a negative light? Not necessarily. Does it show that people make mistakes/bad choices? Even Legendary people? Perhaps.

Norn are mostly solitary people. If you remember GW1 there’s rarely more than a few in a hamlet in the wilderness.
Also the background story they posted on the GW2 webpage sheds a different light on their relationship. Braham’s dying father expressively forbids his son telling Eir about his death because having to care for Braham might distract her from a bigger destiny (i.e. killing Zhaitan). Eir clearly left Braham in his father’s care to pursue the quest to liberate Tyria from the dragons.
For a norn, being immortalised in song and story is more important than being alive. Also Eir clearly worries about Braham (you can see that in the cutscenes at Hoelbrak when talking to Knut Whitebear before and after the mission).
Norn culture emphasizes independence, so most norn who are able to be adventurers won’t stay at home but set out and make a name for themselves. On the negative side, it usually makes them hesistant to seek aid when they need it.
It certainly does not make Eir a bad mother. Even if norns seem to be “big humans”, you cannot compare their norms to ours.

The more I think about it; I think what is getting me hot under the collar is the fact that the living story itself seems rather shoe-horned in. Actually this can be said for A LOT of the personal story as well; perhaps it’s the fact that we have no actual concept of how much time passes and/or when these events are supposed to be taking place. I’m still under the assumption that the living story is taking place after Zhaitan has been dealt w/ and that Eir has no reason to stay in the dark about her son and/or make an attempt to even be a bit of a parent.

This is most likely why I’m taking this out of context; I might not be fitting the story into the right spot on the time line. I’m thinking mayhaps; I’m just thinking ahead too far into the future.

We’re getting into the same dichotomy that Logan got crap for. She knew that Borje had Braham; but instead of taking care of her son, she decided it would be better to bolster her reputation by killing Jormag spawn and other dragon minions.

Tbh, I think it’s not bolstering her reputation for her own egoistic wishes but she fullfills something her people expect her to do. In that little story Borje say something like she is able to fullfill great tasks and noone has to put her off from that way. So he and alot of other people seem to expect her to adandon her child and fight the dragons.

I personally think that one of the reasons she and her son don’t get along very well could be that she failed with destinies edge the first time. So it is rather that she could not do what everyone expected her to do.

Edit: I just wanted to add something. When you talk to Braham for the first time (after you finished that instance with Rox in Chapter III), he mentions that he asked Rytlock for help because he and his mom don’t get along very well and I think he also says that every time they meet they start to argue etc. So I think that he has met her before and that didn’t end well for both. We don’t know why but it could be as well that Eir tried to get contact with him and he rejected her. So you can not be sure that she didn’t try.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Braham

Aura.9530:

Why do people keep putting culture and maternal instincts (nature) together? How does being a Norn have ANYTHING to do with her having emotions?

Because they often do blend.

For example, if I recall correctly it is the belief that it was common for women in Sparta to have a “Come home victorious or come home on your shield” view of things or something like that.

Plus, again, the Norn are a different species entirely. Different species have different maternal instincts. This seems to be what you can’t understand.

Also, even before this Eir has been far from perfect.

Example: The whole Destiny’s Edge drama, which she does carry a chunk of the blame as leader.

I think the fact of no sense of time in this story is what’s actually bothering me; or lack of explanation of Braham. In my head, I’m thinking of it as: Eir just had Braham, while she was recovering from labor her and Borje talk it over and he takes Braham then and there. If there was some explanation of how this happened, it would help.

As I stated earlier; we don’t know how the events of the personal story and the living story tie in together, because of the lack of dates. Which mentally makes me think the living story happened AFTER Zhaitan; however, because we have no real impact on the world (you can help and entire zone and it would be in peril 20mins later from the same menace), it’s hard to say.