Guild Wars 2

I hope that if A-net comes up with coin searching achievements again in future (or similar achievements in later living story segments), it will be for 30 out of 34 coins i.e. please don’t make us find exactly 30 out of available 30 coins.

In that sense what they did for the (regular) crystals in the Zephyr Sanctum was good, IMO.

When they insist we find exactly 30 out of 30 to get the achievement, the only thing they’re doing is promoting sites like Dulfy because:

• Player who tried to find them himself gets frustrated and gives up,
• Player who tried to find them himself ends up referring to Dulfy guide,
• Player doesn’t even wanna try and immediately refers to Dulfy guide.

That robs the majority of us of the sense of accomplishment that we did it ourselves and make the players who went straight to the Dulfy guide seem like the smarter ones.

I myself have found all the 60 coins without any kind of guide. I thought it was somewhat fun to do.

I have nothing against Dulfy or anyone who wants to help the community, but I simply hate websites like that, that tells how to do everything. People complain with ‘’I don’t have enough time so guides are good for me’’ implying they have to complete everything immediately, completing everything the first day.

I guess it’s just a matter of playstyle, but to me, having someone else playing the game for you by following a guide 24/7 just sounds boring as hell. I don’t even know why these players play the game.

They have achievements for less than the maximum number of coins already. Since the first patch. And then another one for having all coins.

Isn’t that exactly what you’d want?

Its nice there are tiers as a form of encouragement to keep going.

Without using any guides, I found all the coins in Uplands but am missing one for Prospect Valley. I’ve searched many times over and over and now thinking I’ve spent too much time for this achievement.

Needing to find 30 out of exactly 30 means that if you just miss one anytime on your search, you’d need to search all over again. Its not fun.

But… why do you want that final tier of the achievement removed then?
Because that’s what you are effectively asking. For the final tier to not exist, the one which is given for all of them.

And this makes me wonder: Why?

I mean what does it hurt you if you won’t get it? Other players enjoy the hunt, and like it, and it’s hardly doing any harm to you when you ignore it.

(edit)

Needing to

Ah, that might be your issue then. There is no requirement of completing the achievements any more, contrary to LS1. Just ignore it then.

I don’t want the final tier to be removed. I want Anet to provide excess coins.

Please read my OP. I am hoping they provide 34 coins but only require us to find 30.

I think that’s what Carighan means by effectively. It’s understood you’re not literally requesting that the final tier be removed. It’s that, in effect, by creating extra coins you are saying there is no final tier reward for anyone who finds all of them. In practice, it’s basically the same idea.

I agree with both sides, ha. I found all 60 coins without a guide, however the first 59 were joyful exploration. The last one — and this was my own fault due to the completionist in me — was literally 6 hours of gruelingly scrubbing every single inch of the map over the course of a few days. I even did result to dulfy, however I wound up finding it on my own because it was in a location I swore I had already gotten.

Map completion in GW1 was similarly painful (nothing like GW2), but there was a small amount of leeway. You could have 100% map completion even while missing a small town, just because the experience was so painful to get. So I lean towards there being like 2 extra coins. Not removing the final tier, just adding 2 leeway coins.

Fluffball.8307:

Map completion in GW1 was similarly painful (nothing like GW2), but there was a small amount of leeway. You could have 100% map completion even while missing a small town, just because the experience was so painful to get.

I actually always hated that part of the cartographer achievement. I always felt like there might be something I was missing because it said 100% when it wasn’t really 100%. Bugged me like crazy.

It would figure that the hardcore folks (or the very lucky) could prefer the current system. But I believe A-net can better understand my issue from their own perspective.

By insisting on 30 out of 30 (in this case), they’re just pushing a lot of folks to check guides and in doing so, deny them of the sense of self-accomplishment.

Please remember that guides do exist and there isn’t any way to distinguish between those who found it themselves or those who referred to guides. GW2 has been catering to casual players and I think not insisting on 30/30 would go a long way to helping folks enjoy the game and in so doing, contribute to the longevity of GW2.

I used the guide(s) to help me find ones I hadn’t found on my own. But I do agree that a couple extra coins and keeping top tier reward would be a good thing like the Zephyrite area in LS 1. And please don’t put the llama (if you do again…) in a ridiculous spot like it was in the 2nd part of this….that was just supremely annoying lol.

I don’t think I’d consider myself “Hardcore.” I still haven’t finished the achievement myself, but I’m enjoying the hunt. I just think it’s important the everyone remembers what achievements really are. They’re not core content, they’re not a gate for anything, and they’re not geared toward casual players, aside from the occasional “Congrats, you opened your inventory!” achievement. Achievements are meant to add replayability and difficulty for the more dedicated players who are willing to commit more time to honing their skills and solving puzzles. If someone has a desire to complete all the achievements, then fantastic! They have a bit of a completionist streak, like me, and this game caters to that side of players very well. However, in order to satisfy that completionist streak, they’re going to need to go above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak. That’s the way it is and should be. If someone doesn’t want to take the time to hunt down that last coin, they need to be satisfied with their 25 coin achievement and forget about that extra 3 AP.

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

I don’t think I’d consider myself “Hardcore.” I still haven’t finished the achievement myself, but I’m enjoying the hunt. I just think it’s important the everyone remembers what achievements really are. They’re not core content, they’re not a gate for anything, and they’re not geared toward casual players, aside from the occasional “Congrats, you opened your inventory!” achievement. Achievements are meant to add replayability and difficulty for the more dedicated players who are willing to commit more time to honing their skills and solving puzzles. If someone has a desire to complete all the achievements, then fantastic! They have a bit of a completionist streak, like me, and this game caters to that side of players very well. However, in order to satisfy that completionist streak, they’re going to need to go above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak. That’s the way it is and should be. If someone doesn’t want to take the time to hunt down that last coin, they need to be satisfied with their 25 coin achievement and forget about that extra 3 AP.

In a world without online guides, I could agree with you. However, the reality is that such guides do exist. I will get that AP but I would prefer to do so by myself (up to the limit of my patience).

As it stands, the folks who decided to use the guides without even trying are already ahead on the achievement.

As I said in the OP, for the majority, the current system only promotes frustration or ultimately referring to sites like Dulfy. If a couple of leeway coins could be included, it would be much more satisfying for the casual user to be able to locate all of them themselves.

justkoh.4073:

That robs the majority of us of the sense of accomplishment that we did it ourselves and make the players who went straight to the Dulfy guide seem like the smarter ones.

I do not agree. Nobody is forcing you to read Dulfy while another may come along who prefers to use it.

Excess coins would defeat the purpose of the achievement. That’s not how the skulls work in Halo.

justkoh.4073:

As I said in the OP, for the majority, the current system only promotes frustration or ultimately referring to sites like Dulfy. If a couple of leeway coins could be included, it would be much more satisfying for the casual user to be able to locate all of them themselves.

That’s hardly a “bad” thing in my opinion. Sites like Dulfy keep large quantities of people updated with what any said MMO is doing. It garners curiosity and interest, which brings players back. More players means more $$.

How about 30 out of 31 or 32, for another reason.

There r topics about players claiming to found all 30 but gotten credit for only 29.

I wouldn’t mind the 30/30 so much if there was a way to log which ones you found. I got a bunch on my own, then decided to take the Dulfy tour. I visited every spot again, even the ones I’d found on my own … and ended up at 29/30. Even with a guide that was a long time investment doing just that and nothing else as I needed to track where I was and keep my “train of thought” going on it. Ending up with 1 still missing was frustrating as the only way to find which one is missing would be to retrace my steps again, with no guarantee it would work any better the next time.

If nothing else, one should be able to see something where the coin used to be, to verify that one had found that one. A little hole in the ground, a different sparkle color, anything to mark “you’ve been here.”

justkoh.4073:

Needing to find 30 out of exactly 30 means that if you just miss one anytime on your search, you’d need to search all over again. Its not fun.

If you miss one coin you don’t need to do anything. If you want an achievement that says you found every single coin, then you have the option to go search for every single coin. If you’re doing things because you think you need to do them despite them not being fun, then maybe you have some sort of disorder.

Waffler.1257:

justkoh.4073:

Needing to find 30 out of exactly 30 means that if you just miss one anytime on your search, you’d need to search all over again. Its not fun.

If you miss one coin you don’t need to do anything. If you want an achievement that says you found every single coin, then you have the option to go search for every single coin. If you’re doing things because you think you need to do them despite them not being fun, then maybe you have some sort of disorder.

Something like OCD, I guess?

justkoh.4073:

It would figure that the hardcore folks (or the very lucky) could prefer the current system. But I believe A-net can better understand my issue from their own perspective.

By insisting on 30 out of 30 (in this case), they’re just pushing a lot of folks to check guides and in doing so, deny them of the sense of self-accomplishment.

Please remember that guides do exist and there isn’t any way to distinguish between those who found it themselves or those who referred to guides. GW2 has been catering to casual players and I think not insisting on 30/30 would go a long way to helping folks enjoy the game and in so doing, contribute to the longevity of GW2.

Why is it luck to of found the coins without a guide.. luck has nothing to do with it, its up to the individual to put the effort in, in order to find them.. add excess coins and the achievement becomes nothing more than a 5min easy win.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I could of sworn there was no time limit on finding all 30 coins so take a break and do something else if it’s frustrating you.. failing that players can choose to take a guided tour. You think that by adding in extra coins to dumb down the achievement will stop players going to places like Dulfy for a guide.. cos I will bet my kids dinner money it will make no difference at all.

I get it, you can’t find the last coin and so you come here to try and put out a smokescreen to hise your whine and frustration.

ANET… no need to water the exploration side of your achievements down in my opinion it works just fine as it is…signed "Lucky Achiever!

Extra coins to make an achievment easier? No, not so much. It’s an Achievment, it’s supposed to be hard. But there are guides for the OCD, impatient, and AP farmers. But they are, as been said multiple times, not required. I’ve found a bunch as a casual player while looking for buried chests, and passed over many more due to time constraints in the dust storm. Want to know a secret? On the default keyboard settings, if you press “CTRL” you can see where they are on your screen, same with nodes, chests, etc. So while running around searching for chests, I can hold down “CTRL” and see where they all are within a respectable range. Use a guide, or not, but either way they aren’t all that hard to find, and adding more is just an excuse to get AP faster more than anything else.

This isn’t about AP. It is about the enjoyment from this activity. Having to jump onto every possible overlook to search for the last coins eventually stops being fun. You spend a lot of time trying to jump to places that can’t be reached, and that quickly stops being fun. If you could spend 100 geodes to buy a device that just once shows you the direction of the nearest coin then that would give people more hope and they would still have to work out the jumps.

Excess coins would be nice.

I too wish we didn’t have guides on this sort of thing as it really takes away from the players who work for it. I use guides for this content too. Not because I want to, really, but because my friends want their achievement points and I want to both keep up with them and play with them more than I want to play alone.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Why is it luck to of found the coins without a guide.. luck has nothing to do with it, its up to the individual to put the effort in, in order to find them.. add excess coins and the achievement becomes nothing more than a 5min easy win.
Forgive me if I am wrong but I could of sworn there was no time limit on finding all 30 coins so take a break and do something else if it’s frustrating you.. failing that players can choose to take a guided tour. You think that by adding in extra coins to dumb down the achievement will stop players going to places like Dulfy for a guide.. cos I will bet my kids dinner money it will make no difference at all.

I get it, you can’t find the last coin and so you come here to try and put out a smokescreen to hise your whine and frustration.

ANET… no need to water the exploration side of your achievements down in my opinion it works just fine as it is…signed "Lucky Achiever!

It could be luck, it could be you searched hard. Why couldn’t it be some of both?

Adding leeway coins is a 5min win? Then what is using guides straightaway? When players use that, the gratitude is towards the guide maker, not the game for making a good and satisfying challenge. Another thing I want A-net to consider.

Yes, I am aware there is no time limit for finding the coins. You do not know how much effort I’ve taken to search so don’t make assumptions and baseless accusations. I have searched for more than 14hrs over a week for that 1 coin. I really hope its not because its bugged as someone above said.

I am not whining. I know what information is available online. If I want that last coin that badly, I will just refer to a guide and complete the achievement. As I said, I will have it. This isn’t the same as asking A-net to dumb down Liadri so I can complete the Gauntlet.

I believe A-net knows who its players are. If they believe that GW2 players are hardcore, by all means continue with 30/30. I’ll just use the 5min win in future; not going to waste time doing this. No one knows any different anyway. But if they believe otherwise, then I think the game is better served with a little slack.

BTW, I am not asking A-net to place those extra coins in plain sight. But searching for one coin is not fun. And when you find it, you realize it isn’t that great an achievement either.

ANET – please consider my reasoning in this thread. The system as it is only adds to user frustration. Being too insistent on 30/30 only drives people to use guides and that could become habit forming. Finding 30/34 (or even 30/32) has precedent and was a better system IMO (e.g. Sky crystals in the Zephyr Sanctum).

You know what, Anet? I’ve changed my mind. I agree with the OP. It’s not fair to force players to find every last coin for the achievement. They should only have to find 30/34. While we’re at it, I think it takes too long to find all the PoIs for the map completion achievement. No fun, not fair. Everyone just looks at the map instead of looking for them. We should only have to find 688/723. Also, level 80 is too hard to reach. Could you lower the level cap to 77? This will prevent people from reading up on the best ways to level a character, which is bad. In addition, it’s unfair to make players collect 5000 AP for the massive achievement chests and titles. After 4423 points it gets boring and un-fun. You need to lower the threshold. Don’t you realize you’re making people look up achievement guides and alienating casual players? By the way, Legendaries take far too long to get. It’s not fun or fair. I’m basically being forced to look up the recipes instead of experimenting. You should definitely add them to a merchant so we don’t look up information on their creation.

With Zephry Sanctum round two they added more difficult crystals. I got all the easy ones (or the top tier anyway), but punted on trying to get to all the hard crystals because some where just not worth the tick on the wall. Maybe have 30 easy coins and 10 hard coins letting casuals go for one and he hard core go for both. And let the top tier by 100% of both, not 99%.

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

You know what, Anet? I’ve changed my mind. I agree with the OP. It’s not fair to force players to find every last coin for the achievement. They should only have to find 30/34. While we’re at it, I think it takes too long to find all the PoIs for the map completion achievement. No fun, not fair. Everyone just looks at the map instead of looking for them. We should only have to find 688/723. Also, level 80 is too hard to reach. Could you lower the level cap to 77? This will prevent people from reading up on the best ways to level a character, which is bad. In addition, it’s unfair to make players collect 5000 AP for the massive achievement chests and titles. After 4423 points it gets boring and un-fun. You need to lower the threshold. Don’t you realize you’re making people look up achievement guides and alienating casual players? By the way, Legendaries take far too long to get. It’s not fun or fair. I’m basically being forced to look up the recipes instead of experimenting. You should definitely add them to a merchant so we don’t look up information on their creation.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

With Zephry Sanctum round two they added more difficult crystals. I got all the easy ones (or the top tier anyway), but punted on trying to get to all the hard crystals because some where just not worth the tick on the wall. Maybe have 30 easy coins and 10 hard coins letting casuals go for one and he hard core go for both. And let the top tier by 100% of both, not 99%.

Now that’s a reasonable compromise.

justkoh.4073:

It would figure that the hardcore folks (or the very lucky) could prefer the current system. But I believe A-net can better understand my issue from their own perspective.

By insisting on 30 out of 30 (in this case), they’re just pushing a lot of folks to check guides and in doing so, deny them of the sense of self-accomplishment.

But where are they insisting?
I’m serious. What about the current system forces you to go beyond the fifth achievement, and get that sixth one?

You want excess coins. Like I said, WLOG you can just remove the final achievement tier. Same thing. In both cases the last achievement comes before all coins have been found and there is no further achievement for finding all of them.

Buuuuut… from your perspective (found all but 1), there’s no difference between how it is right now and what you’d want. In both cases you got the achievement for finding X coins, where X is smaller than Y, the maximum amount.
I’d still like to know why there shouldn’t be another tier for those who actually do find all of them? Your situation doesn’t change, whether that tier exists or not.

In short, there are already leeway coins.

There’s a 25 coins found achievement (or was it 20?). To get that, you have 5 (or 10) leeway coins. It’s already implemented like that. It’s already exactly implemented like that, only the numbers are different (you want 30 of 34, the achievement is 25 or 20 of 30).

60?!?! I thought I was almost done with 28 lol

I hope they add a few extra coins for both achievements. I got 30/30 for the second ap track, but I’m stuck on 28/30 for the original track…..the kicker being that I’ve been through the dulfy guide video and I know that I have 29 already (the 30th is in the inquest mine, which I know I haven’t gotten yet). Even if I get the inquest mine coin, I’ll still be on 29/30 and the blasted ap will forever be laughing at me from the front page of the ap tab in the hero panel.

Yol.1685:

I’ll still be on 29/30 and the blasted ap will forever be laughing at me from the front page of the ap tab in the hero panel.

Ah, so this is about the “It’s an achievement, I must have it”-problem, right?
Because I’ve been wondering why removing the final achievement would matter, at all.

So maybe all we need is a “Hide this achievement”-function? So if you want leeway-coins, you collect until you got the second-to-last, then hide the final ach?

justkoh.4073:

By insisting on 30 out of 30 (in this case), they’re just pushing a lot of folks to check guides and in doing so, deny them of the sense of self-accomplishment.

Maybe I’m misinterpreting, but it seems like you just said that people should be able to experience the sense of accomplishment without actually accomplishing anything.

Isn’t that kind of like saying “Let’s cut 5 miles off of the marathon but still put a finishing line at the end so that people who finish the first 21 miles can feel like they’ve run the marathon”?

HyruleanHyroe.1473:

You know what, Anet? I’ve changed my mind. I agree with the OP. It’s not fair to force players to find every last coin for the achievement. They should only have to find 30/34. While we’re at it, I think it takes too long to find all the PoIs for the map completion achievement. No fun, not fair. Everyone just looks at the map instead of looking for them. We should only have to find 688/723. Also, level 80 is too hard to reach. Could you lower the level cap to 77? This will prevent people from reading up on the best ways to level a character, which is bad. In addition, it’s unfair to make players collect 5000 AP for the massive achievement chests and titles. After 4423 points it gets boring and un-fun. You need to lower the threshold. Don’t you realize you’re making people look up achievement guides and alienating casual players? By the way, Legendaries take far too long to get. It’s not fun or fair. I’m basically being forced to look up the recipes instead of experimenting. You should definitely add them to a merchant so we don’t look up information on their creation.

Grrr there goes another perfectly good mug of coffee – Stop!.. Just STOP will you, do you realise what it feels like having coffee dripping down your nostrils.

However, I see what you did there

This achievement exists. You get it for finding 25/30 coins.

Don’t try to take away the enjoyment that others have for finding every single coin. Whether the total is 30, 34, or 304, there will always be people who find all of them and it’s only fair that they get rewarded more than you if you found less. It’s life.

FWIW I found 26/30 on my own. I consulted Dulfy for the last 4 after I had spent awhile looking for them. Clearly I’m not the best at this sort of thing, but at 26/30 why on Earth would I deserve the same achievement as others who are at 30/30?

justkoh.4073:

That robs the majority of us of the sense of accomplishment that we did it ourselves and make the players who went straight to the Dulfy guide seem like the smarter ones.

That sense of accomplishment is entirely yours to control. You KNOW that you found them all yourself; the fact that another player referred to a guide makes no difference to your accomplishment. It’s like getting upset that you fought your way through all the dungeons to get Dungeon Master, and then learning that another player just paid a runner to run him through all the dungeons. Maybe to your mind, that player didn’t earn his title (and personally speaking, I’d agree with you), but how does that cheapen YOUR accomplishment? You still did it the “right” way; the fact that another player did it the easy way doesn’t negate the fact that you earned your title.

justkoh.4073:

I hope that if A-net comes up with coin searching achievements again in future (or similar achievements in later living story segments), it will be for 30 out of 34 coins i.e. please don’t make us find exactly 30 out of available 30 coins.

In that sense what they did for the (regular) crystals in the Zephyr Sanctum was good, IMO.

When they insist we find exactly 30 out of 30 to get the achievement, the only thing they’re doing is promoting sites like Dulfy because:

• Player who tried to find them himself gets frustrated and gives up,
• Player who tried to find them himself ends up referring to Dulfy guide,
• Player doesn’t even wanna try and immediately refers to Dulfy guide.

That robs the majority of us of the sense of accomplishment that we did it ourselves and make the players who went straight to the Dulfy guide seem like the smarter ones.

Okay, but then please add an achievment for 34 coins too.

…
…

;)

Also not everyone is as skilled with speed tests as the your super Mario generation. Some of us are old with hands and arms then don’t lend themselves to going from the 3rd jump crystal to a drop to 4 big jumps without a stop to get the Llama and run around jumping back and forth up two mesas to get the last coin . Some of us are plodders not speeders. The crystals could last a bit longer or perhaps instead of 10 jumps you only got 7 or 8. Why does is always have to be speed. I’m tired of JP’s that give the advantage to the young, swift and agile. Think Old, Slow and Stiff we could use a chance too. And it really sucks that you can’t get the Llama and there’s a coin just a bit too far also so your our of luck for 2 achieves and not just one. I’m tired of waiting for a port to do things I could do if I just had more time. I don’t mind having to find all 30 I would just like a fair chance for me to find them. The first 29 coins were all in fairly reasonable places, but the one on the mesas not so much. You could have just done one coin, put it on the mesa and anyone who could have found it could have gotten the others. I’m kind of tired of sitting things out with Taimi.

If they put in 4 leeway coins, who’s to say you won’t just get stuck at 29/34 and still be “forced” to go to a guide?

If you found all 30 yourself, why does it remove your sense of accomplishment if someone else didn’t? If you solo a champion, does it remove your sense of accomplishment if someone else does it in a group? If you craft your own legendary, does it remove your sense of accomplishment if someone else buys it off the TP?

I mean, nobody else knows, or cares, whether you got all 30 yourself or not, because it doesn’t show it. Nobody’s forcing you to use the guide. If you want to spend 30 hours finding the 30th coin, that’s your prerogative.

Besides, people will still use the guide for 30/34, so…