Guild Wars 2

I think that giant flower is part of Mordremoth.

Slowpokeking.8720:

I think that giant flower is part of Mordremoth.

It has been stated, as I recall, that the vines ARE Mordremoth. So, if the flower is growing from the vines, then yes, it’s a part of him.

And now, I can’t help but imagine a slight change to one of Captain Hammer’s lines in Doctor Horrible.

Cuddy.6247:

draxynnic.3719:

Caithe being Ascended – or even being capable of it – would be a really big deal. Ascension is a process connected to the gods, and being Chosen is, as far as we know, a trait that only humans can have. For a sylvari to Ascend would raise a lot of interesting questions.

Why would she not be capable of it? There are only three separate instances of Ascension mentioned in lore: Margonites were all basically servants of Abaddon, and their ascension is likely a direct result of their direct communication with a god. Turai Ossa and his people basically waged war on the Forgotten, split up out of greed and mistrust, etc. and never accomplished it (although they sought it). The only other example is our Guild Wars 1 hero, who would’ve never gone through these steps had it not been for Khilbron and Turai Ossa’s ghost. That’s basically three separate notations of Ascension and only one success after the exodus of the Gods.

We don’t have any information to suggest it wouldn’t be possible for other sentient races, and since the gods were very definitely real (although they aren’t Gods – as we once thought of them), I see no reason why Caithe couldn’t manage. As far as Chosen and such go, this is in a 5 year historical timeframe of knowledge…From 1067 to 1072 and this is limited knowledge within a limited timeframe due to all of this occurring within the White Mantle and Kryta which was inhabited by humans and beasts.

There’s no solid evidence to suggest that it couldn’t happen. Although whether or not it’s true is a stretched theory, I’ll admit.

You’ll note that I said it would be a big deal… not that it’s impossible. What we know of Ascension is that (among humans at least) it requires being Chosen, and that as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.

If Caithe could ascend, this implies either that the sylvari have some distant connection with the gods… or that having such a connection is not required to be Chosen and to Ascend. Either has long-reaching lore ramifications, making it kind of a big deal.

(That said, I do think it’s more likely to turn out that the glyphs in question are simply Forgotten in origin, and the link is that both this site and the site of the tests of Ascension were once controlled by the Forgotten.)

Regarding seeing Mursaat pre-Ascension: The game assumes you play the storyline in the normal fashion, which means undergoing the tests of Ascension before you ever see a mursaat. Just like we don’t know for sure what the blessing of the Five Gods granted in Gate of Madness actually did, since it actually is impossible to do the Abaddon’s Gate mission before Gate of Madness.

Obsidian.1328

“Ascension” in Prophecies and Factions(counting Weh No Su as a legit alternative) served both the lore and gameplay function of those two campaigns well. But if the lore for it wasn’t there, then ANet would have had to have called the mechanics of it(switching 2ndary class, access to Mists) something else entirely.

I wonder if Anet is setting it up for Rytlock to pop back in as Ascended or some sort of alternative. (With the ritual regarding Sohothin and the journey afterwards being a possible “Trial of Ascension”.) The change of armor could imply either an upgrade in his warriorness or a switch of some kind. The new blindfold could be a blessing of some sort, most likely from Kormir, and he got access to the Mists directly from the ritual. If they build on that is up to them.

It would be an interesting twist if after all this time we (the players and everyone else) couldn’t totally perceive the Elder Dragon and their full effect on Tyria. They were kinda billed as creatures that were suppose to be beyond us in most ways, possibly falling into the eldritch abomination category. Them only getting possibly fully seen and/or understood by those that have Ascended would be interesting addition.

draxynnic.3719:

You’ll note that I said it would be a big deal… not that it’s impossible. What we know of Ascension is that (among humans at least) it requires being Chosen, and that as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.

If Caithe could ascend, this implies either that the sylvari have some distant connection with the gods… or that having such a connection is not required to be Chosen and to Ascend. Either has long-reaching lore ramifications, making it kind of a big deal.

(That said, I do think it’s more likely to turn out that the glyphs in question are simply Forgotten in origin, and the link is that both this site and the site of the tests of Ascension were once controlled by the Forgotten.)

Regarding seeing Mursaat pre-Ascension: The game assumes you play the storyline in the normal fashion, which means undergoing the tests of Ascension before you ever see a mursaat. Just like we don’t know for sure what the blessing of the Five Gods granted in Gate of Madness actually did, since it actually is impossible to do the Abaddon’s Gate mission before Gate of Madness.

Eh…I’m not sold on the “Chosen” bit. In contrast to the theory that Chosen have to be human or that a human has to be “Chosen” to Ascend is false. The Chosen are basically just people who are capable of Ascending, vis-à-vis the Flameseeker Prophecies, rather than any correlated communion with the Gods. There’s not nearly enough lore to say it’s empirical and it wouldn’t be a retcon for the writers to look back and add depth to information about Ascension.

With that said, your second paragraph is likely false – there doesn’t need to be a distant connection.

As far as the timeline, I’m aware. I’m just pointing out that the game makes no real distinction in Ascension other than for some mechanical purposes – and the lore behind Ascension is stifled to almost nothing. Most of the things people have been assuming about Ascension in this thread are casually related to the story of GW1, rather than anything about Ascension itself.

Ascension itself is intimately related to “the Old Gods” and without that relation it wouldn’t be the same thing, regardless of what gameplay mechanics it brings with it.

Being Chosen has a lot more to do with the Flameseeker Prophecies than to Ascension itself. Granted, the Chosen from GW1 have to become Ascended to fulfill that particular prophecy, but Ascension need not exist only for the Chosen…as long as it’s related to the old gods somehow. :/

Ascension(in GW1) can be simply described as “a state of communion with the Old Gods”, and all the gameplay mechanics therein partially characterize that communion. The gods were the alpha brokers of power in Tyria back then, and even the end-game content of the game itself(before EotN) all revolved around that: HoH, UW, FoW, etc.

The old gods are no longer the apex divine beings in Tyria for GW2, they aren’t really even part of the equation anymore aside from having a small role in the history of Tyrian magic.

I would argue Ascension doesn’t exist in GW2.

lordkrall.7241:

Super Fohd.6245:

Not a whole lot of new stuff, there is one shot that looks like a mordrem version of the lane defense that we saw during the marionette but I don’t see that happen… Not a whole lot to see tbh, I find it hard to get super pumped when I see a dragon in a trailer when its just roaring and not really doing stuff….

To be fair people have been speculating about a marionette style boss in SW since the map was released and we could see the three lanes. So I wouldn’t really say it is impossible or even unlikely that something like that might happen.

Yeah but ANet would really have to widen and lengthen those lanes a bit if they’re planning a marionette style fight. No way you’ll get a server full of people to fit nicely in those lanes.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Nothing was “hard” about the marionette fight… I don’t think anyone ever failed the lane part… the hard part was you had to rely on noobs in blues and greens to do the platforms and they died 90% of the time.

Equipment wasn’t the problem, tactics were.

Donutdude.9582:

One thing that annoyed me: where the HELL is Rytlock?

Having amazing and fun adventures in the mists. Fighting demons and gods, exploring new and unimaginable locations, make friends, making foes, ensuring the very future of all existence.
I’m sure he’ll tell us all about it when he comes back.

CureForLiving.5360:

Having amazing and fun adventures in the mists. Fighting demons and gods, exploring new and unimaginable locations, make friends, making foes, ensuring the very future of all existence.
I’m sure he’ll tell us all about it when he comes back.

But he still won’t tell us where he got his sword

Which, by the way, we know he has still.

Obsidian.1328:

I would argue Ascension doesn’t exist in GW2.

You’d be right. It doesn’t exist…yet.

The three glyphs on the wall above the shining portal though are the exact same as the three glyphs found at Augury Rock. Then they tease us with a ghost that’s the spitting image of The Ghostly Hero? That isn’t coincidental.

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Well, yes…sort of. But this is the first time we’ve experienced a dragon waking up. All of the others woke up before the game started.

Also, he might be stronger than Zhaitan. I think there was some mention (not sure where, though, so it could’ve just been speculation) that when one dragon falls (Zhaitan, for instance) the others get stronger due to the excess magic that they can consume. I imagine though that in the end, many of Mordremoth won’t have as vast an array of armies so much as just jungle creatures. He probably won’t have the calculating army like Zhaitan did.

Cuddy.6247:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Well, yes…sort of. But this is the first time we’ve experienced a dragon waking up. All of the others woke up before the game started.

Also, he might be stronger than Zhaitan. I think there was some mention (not sure where, though, so it could’ve just been speculation) that when one dragon falls (Zhaitan, for instance) the others get stronger due to the excess magic that they can consume. I imagine though that in the end, many of Mordremoth won’t have as vast an array of armies so much as just jungle creatures. He probably won’t have the calculating army like Zhaitan did.

We didn’t experience, but Destiny’s Edge did.

Cuddy.6247:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Well, yes…sort of. But this is the first time we’ve experienced a dragon waking up. All of the others woke up before the game started.

Also, he might be stronger than Zhaitan. I think there was some mention (not sure where, though, so it could’ve just been speculation) that when one dragon falls (Zhaitan, for instance) the others get stronger due to the excess magic that they can consume. I imagine though that in the end, many of Mordremoth won’t have as vast an array of armies so much as just jungle creatures. He probably won’t have the calculating army like Zhaitan did.

More to the point, they did state that when a dragon first awakens is when it is usually most destructive and powerful. Zhaitan’s armies won many battles when he first awoke (see the very first GW2 trailer for reference). The Dragonbrand and thousands of Branded were created in just a couple of hours.

Mordremoth’s reach is further than Kralkatorrik’s, but Mordremoth wasn’t immedietly rushing off to deal with a rogue lieutenant either. We can also guess he is physically much larger than any of the other dragons.

As a fun fact, the Zhaitan model we have in game, which is the size of Lion’s Arch, is actually a shrunken down version. The original model they produced was so large it crashed the game. If Zhaitan, lore-wise, is that large, and Mordremoth is likely even larger…

Cuddy.6247:

draxynnic.3719:

You’ll note that I said it would be a big deal… not that it’s impossible. What we know of Ascension is that (among humans at least) it requires being Chosen, and that as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.

If Caithe could ascend, this implies either that the sylvari have some distant connection with the gods… or that having such a connection is not required to be Chosen and to Ascend. Either has long-reaching lore ramifications, making it kind of a big deal.

(That said, I do think it’s more likely to turn out that the glyphs in question are simply Forgotten in origin, and the link is that both this site and the site of the tests of Ascension were once controlled by the Forgotten.)

Regarding seeing Mursaat pre-Ascension: The game assumes you play the storyline in the normal fashion, which means undergoing the tests of Ascension before you ever see a mursaat. Just like we don’t know for sure what the blessing of the Five Gods granted in Gate of Madness actually did, since it actually is impossible to do the Abaddon’s Gate mission before Gate of Madness.

Eh…I’m not sold on the “Chosen” bit. In contrast to the theory that Chosen have to be human or that a human has to be “Chosen” to Ascend is false. The Chosen are basically just people who are capable of Ascending, vis-à-vis the Flameseeker Prophecies, rather than any correlated communion with the Gods. There’s not nearly enough lore to say it’s empirical and it wouldn’t be a retcon for the writers to look back and add depth to information about Ascension.

With that said, your second paragraph is likely false – there doesn’t need to be a distant connection.

As far as the timeline, I’m aware. I’m just pointing out that the game makes no real distinction in Ascension other than for some mechanical purposes – and the lore behind Ascension is stifled to almost nothing. Most of the things people have been assuming about Ascension in this thread are casually related to the story of GW1, rather than anything about Ascension itself.

You’re completely misinterpreting. Look at what I said again:

“as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.”

Ascension, previously, has been implied to be something that is only available to those who are favoured by the gods. Implied. It’s entirely possible that this is not the case.

However, if it is not the case, this has big ramifications, as it implies that Ascension is not as tied to the gods as we have previously thought.

If it IS the case, and sylvari can Ascend anyway, it has even bigger ramifications, as it implies some connection between the sylvari and the gods.

I’m not saying that it would be a retcon or anything, just that it’d have deep ramifications.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

As a fun fact, the Zhaitan model we have in game, which is the size of Lion’s Arch, is actually a shrunken down version. The original model they produced was so large it crashed the game. If Zhaitan, lore-wise, is that large, and Mordremoth is likely even larger…

I very much doubt it will happen, but I’m still kinda hoping that Mordy turns out to be a huge evil vaguely dragon-shaped tree.

Because why would it need to move? It’s vines/roots, extensions of it very being, can and do stretch almost all across Tyria itself to pull in magic/nutrients, and where it’s vines go it can easily grow minions to protect them and attack any threats in the area. And if it needs to defend itself against any sort of aerial attack, it can simply grow an army of Shadow of the Dragon from its branches.

/wistful thinking

Cuddy.6247:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Well, yes…sort of. But this is the first time we’ve experienced a dragon waking up. All of the others woke up before the game started.

Also, he might be stronger than Zhaitan. I think there was some mention (not sure where, though, so it could’ve just been speculation) that when one dragon falls (Zhaitan, for instance) the others get stronger due to the excess magic that they can consume. I imagine though that in the end, many of Mordremoth won’t have as vast an array of armies so much as just jungle creatures. He probably won’t have the calculating army like Zhaitan did.

alone from influence over tyria mordi seems to outmatch zhaitan by far. His veins go all over the land and his minions appear even in the mountains by the norn and far in the east ( to mordi´s turf) in ashford and annoy the charr devourer breeders over there and he doesnt even seem to be fully of the couch yet. Sure zhaitan had orr under his perfect controll and had here and there some undead attacks…but most further away attacks where thanks to a necromancer…and only indirectly had to do with zhaitan. As for his armies… we really dont know if thats all he got. Yes so far its just beasts…but quite a few of them dont seem to be plant based only…like the troll and the griffon, they are certainly corrupted (maybe also the wolf..cause it does got an animal skull as head), most likely just critters that doodle arround in the area where he is at, im pretty certain he will sooner or later start to corrupt more advanced species…like zhaitan did with his army or thriller backup dancers and also kralkatorrik and jormag with the branded and the icebrood. So yea… IMO mordi is already more dangerous then zhaitan. Also he directly attacked the summit.. what shows he is quite aware of what we are up to…and there is still that slight hunch i got that the sylvari are actually dragon minions.. or that the seed of the pale tree came to be through mordi….maybe something arround glint´s thing that she wasnt a kittendragon basically. We will (hopefully) see soon enough

The mordrem wolves are wolf corpses with vines wrapped around and controlling them. You can see this at the end of the instance where the Pale Tree gets attacked – there are a few mordrem corpses in the Grove that don’t disappear, and thus can be studied at leisure.

Basaltface.2786:

alone from influence over tyria mordi seems to outmatch zhaitan by far. His veins go all over the land and his minions appear even in the mountains by the norn and far in the east ( to mordi´s turf) in ashford and annoy the charr devourer breeders over there and he doesnt even seem to be fully of the couch yet. Sure zhaitan had orr under his perfect controll and had here and there some undead attacks…but most further away attacks where thanks to a necromancer…and only indirectly had to do with zhaitan. As for his armies… we really dont know if thats all he got. Yes so far its just beasts…but quite a few of them dont seem to be plant based only…like the troll and the griffon, they are certainly corrupted (maybe also the wolf..cause it does got an animal skull as head), most likely just critters that doodle arround in the area where he is at, im pretty certain he will sooner or later start to corrupt more advanced species…like zhaitan did with his army or thriller backup dancers and also kralkatorrik and jormag with the branded and the icebrood. So yea… IMO mordi is already more dangerous then zhaitan. Also he directly attacked the summit.. what shows he is quite aware of what we are up to…and there is still that slight hunch i got that the sylvari are actually dragon minions.. or that the seed of the pale tree came to be through mordi….maybe something arround glint´s thing that she wasnt a kittendragon basically. We will (hopefully) see soon enough

But most of these places were only influenced, not dominated.

Zhaitan’s navy blocked the sea and attack from numerous places, it almost took Lion’s Arch twice and destroyed many posts. Sure it couldn’t go from underground but it was the most threatening dragon which is why it’s taken out first.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

More to the point, they did state that when a dragon first awakens is when it is usually most destructive and powerful. Zhaitan’s armies won many battles when he first awoke (see the very first GW2 trailer for reference). The Dragonbrand and thousands of Branded were created in just a couple of hours.

Mordremoth’s reach is further than Kralkatorrik’s, but Mordremoth wasn’t immedietly rushing off to deal with a rogue lieutenant either. We can also guess he is physically much larger than any of the other dragons.

As a fun fact, the Zhaitan model we have in game, which is the size of Lion’s Arch, is actually a shrunken down version. The original model they produced was so large it crashed the game. If Zhaitan, lore-wise, is that large, and Mordremoth is likely even larger…

I don’t think that’s because they were more powerful at that time, but because ppl didn’t know much about them.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Basaltface.2786:

alone from influence over tyria mordi seems to outmatch zhaitan by far. His veins go all over the land and his minions appear even in the mountains by the norn and far in the east ( to mordi´s turf) in ashford and annoy the charr devourer breeders over there and he doesnt even seem to be fully of the couch yet. Sure zhaitan had orr under his perfect controll and had here and there some undead attacks…but most further away attacks where thanks to a necromancer…and only indirectly had to do with zhaitan. As for his armies… we really dont know if thats all he got. Yes so far its just beasts…but quite a few of them dont seem to be plant based only…like the troll and the griffon, they are certainly corrupted (maybe also the wolf..cause it does got an animal skull as head), most likely just critters that doodle arround in the area where he is at, im pretty certain he will sooner or later start to corrupt more advanced species…like zhaitan did with his army or thriller backup dancers and also kralkatorrik and jormag with the branded and the icebrood. So yea… IMO mordi is already more dangerous then zhaitan. Also he directly attacked the summit.. what shows he is quite aware of what we are up to…and there is still that slight hunch i got that the sylvari are actually dragon minions.. or that the seed of the pale tree came to be through mordi….maybe something arround glint´s thing that she wasnt a kittendragon basically. We will (hopefully) see soon enough

But most of these places were only influenced, not dominated.

Zhaitan’s navy blocked the sea and attack from numerous places, it almost took Lion’s Arch twice and destroyed many posts. Sure it couldn’t go from underground but it was the most threatening dragon which is why it’s taken out first.

like i said.. it seems mordi isnt even fully awake yet and we dont know how “dominated” his home turf really is. We are just at the border atm… we didnt see anything of the jungle just yet…well cept some veins and by judging the size of these things and the speed they can move (if they want to) mordi is either gigantic or got a serios talent for botanics. Also imo a dragon who can technically grow most of his minions like granny grows radishes in the backyard got TECHNICALLY an endless supply of lackeys to send after us while zhaitan needed corpses to fill out his ranks (we even got a story mission where we cut off his supply routes and even his way to feed on magic), even most of his champions (like the eyes) where created of powerfull orrian rulers and other stuff like the lupicus giganticus. Well with orr he struck a gold mine of death without a question…but mordi technically only needs stuff a plant needs to grow (and we dont even know if he really needs it) and magic to feed on (whats a “duh” for an elder dragon, thats sorta what they do) to do his shenanigans and send his roots and minions all over the place…and that seemingly fast enough to catch entire fortresses by surprise. He also seems to be quite capable to consume magic without the need for creatures like the mouthes of zhaitan and know whats going on in tyria without the need for creatures like the eyes of zhaitan or facebook. Also mordi seems to love to kitten arround with poison gas…what he gladly shows off at the fortresses in the silver wastes and his minions do use tactics and assist and even heal eachother much more then zhaitans crew does (might be just to make the gameplay more interresting rather then meant to be tactics directly from the dragon…dunno if that one counts). Sure zhaitans marine was massive and he also had a lot of minion dragons…. but i really doubt we saw even a fraction of what mordi is capable off just yet. Lets just wait and see what comes…but imo mordi is waaaay more dangerous then zhaitan.

Basaltface.2786:

like i said.. it seems mordi isnt even fully awake yet and we dont know how “dominated” his home turf really is. We are just at the border atm… we didnt see anything of the jungle just yet…well cept some veins and by judging the size of these things and the speed they can move (if they want to) mordi is either gigantic or got a serios talent for botanics. Also imo a dragon who can technically grow most of his minions like granny grows radishes in the backyard got TECHNICALLY an endless supply of lackeys to send after us while zhaitan needed corpses to fill out his ranks (we even got a story mission where we cut off his supply routes and even his way to feed on magic), even most of his champions (like the eyes) where created of powerfull orrian rulers and other stuff like the lupicus giganticus. Well with orr he struck a gold mine of death without a question…but mordi technically only needs stuff a plant needs to grow (and we dont even know if he really needs it) and magic to feed on (whats a “duh” for an elder dragon, thats sorta what they do) to do his shenanigans and send his roots and minions all over the place…and that seemingly fast enough to catch entire fortresses by surprise. He also seems to be quite capable to consume magic without the need for creatures like the mouthes of zhaitan and know whats going on in tyria without the need for creatures like the eyes of zhaitan or facebook. Also mordi seems to love to kitten arround with poison gas…what he gladly shows off at the fortresses in the silver wastes and his minions do use tactics and assist and even heal eachother much more then zhaitans crew does (might be just to make the gameplay more interresting rather then meant to be tactics directly from the dragon…dunno if that one counts). Sure zhaitans marine was massive and he also had a lot of minion dragons…. but i really doubt we saw even a fraction of what mordi is capable off just yet. Lets just wait and see what comes…but imo mordi is waaaay more dangerous then zhaitan.

Zhaitan didn’t just rule Orr, its navy pretty much dominated the sea before the famous counterattack. It could raise slain enemy directly into its minion and leak all the information to it, that was a huge advantage. Zhaitan’s minions also knew tactics well and tricked us quite a few times.

I don’t think Mordremoth knew what’s going on without using its minions to observe. The World Summit mostly was leaked to it by someone, it was mentioned in the end.

The only advantage of Mordremoth is that it could attack from underground.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Zhaitan is a dragon that has to utilize already existing resources (corpses). Mordremoth’s creatures on the other hand (like Primordius’ Destroyers) seem to be separate beings. And, of course, since Mordrem creatures are plants, they can simply by seeded by the score (and, as we could see, can grow really fast).

Remember, canonically Zhaitan is the weakest of all the elder dragons.

draxynnic.3719:

Cuddy.6247:

draxynnic.3719:

You’ll note that I said it would be a big deal… not that it’s impossible. What we know of Ascension is that (among humans at least) it requires being Chosen, and that as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.

If Caithe could ascend, this implies either that the sylvari have some distant connection with the gods… or that having such a connection is not required to be Chosen and to Ascend. Either has long-reaching lore ramifications, making it kind of a big deal.

(That said, I do think it’s more likely to turn out that the glyphs in question are simply Forgotten in origin, and the link is that both this site and the site of the tests of Ascension were once controlled by the Forgotten.)

Regarding seeing Mursaat pre-Ascension: The game assumes you play the storyline in the normal fashion, which means undergoing the tests of Ascension before you ever see a mursaat. Just like we don’t know for sure what the blessing of the Five Gods granted in Gate of Madness actually did, since it actually is impossible to do the Abaddon’s Gate mission before Gate of Madness.

Eh…I’m not sold on the “Chosen” bit. In contrast to the theory that Chosen have to be human or that a human has to be “Chosen” to Ascend is false. The Chosen are basically just people who are capable of Ascending, vis-à-vis the Flameseeker Prophecies, rather than any correlated communion with the Gods. There’s not nearly enough lore to say it’s empirical and it wouldn’t be a retcon for the writers to look back and add depth to information about Ascension.

With that said, your second paragraph is likely false – there doesn’t need to be a distant connection.

As far as the timeline, I’m aware. I’m just pointing out that the game makes no real distinction in Ascension other than for some mechanical purposes – and the lore behind Ascension is stifled to almost nothing. Most of the things people have been assuming about Ascension in this thread are casually related to the story of GW1, rather than anything about Ascension itself.

You’re completely misinterpreting. Look at what I said again:

“as far as we know only races associated with the gods can be Chosen.”

Ascension, previously, has been implied to be something that is only available to those who are favoured by the gods. Implied. It’s entirely possible that this is not the case.

However, if it is not the case, this has big ramifications, as it implies that Ascension is not as tied to the gods as we have previously thought.

If it IS the case, and sylvari can Ascend anyway, it has even bigger ramifications, as it implies some connection between the sylvari and the gods.

I’m not saying that it would be a retcon or anything, just that it’d have deep ramifications.

How does it imply connection with the gods? All it does imply is that any race can Ascend (commune with the old gods), which shouldn’t be that surprising. How can you imply anything from the nil information we’ve been given about Ascension? Two humans trying to Ascend, one succeeding, doesn’t really lend enough information to imply ANYTHING.

There’s more than two who have succeeded – Devona & Co and at least one player character. Turai’s dream was for all of his followers to ascend, not just himself. There have also been others that made the attempt.

But all those who we know of that have made the attempt are humans. Well, Forgotten may also have Ascended, but they’re another race that is associated with the gods.

We also know that being Chosen is a requirement for Ascending: it’s not enough to just rock up and perform the appropriate rituals. But how is it that someone becomes Chosen? The logical presumption (which, I hasten to point out before you misinterpret what I’m saying again, I fully recognise may be wrong) is that some act of the gods in this or some previous generation has marked out a person as special. And given how many Chosen there are in GW1, and that for many there’s no apparent reason why the gods may have “chosen” them in this generation (most appear quite ordinary apart from Chosen status, and there seems little logic to the gods dishing it out liberally in the current generation only to have most of them end up as sacrifices for the mursaat) it seems likely that being Chosen has to do with a person’s ancestry. (Given that Nightfall talks about how the blessings of the gods are in all humans, I suspect that being Chosen probably represents something about those blessings being particularly strong.)

So, with this in mind, if a nonhuman was to be Chosen, that would imply one of two (okay, if you want to nitpick, three) things:

One: That whatever the gods did in the past to mark certain human bloodlines as Chosen, they also did something similar to other races as well. This would imply that the other races in question have some connection in the past with the gods. This would be a major revelation, particularly with regards to a race whose known history only goes back roughly as far as the fall of Abaddon, and only that far if you count the Pale Tree as a sapling.

Two: That being Chosen actually has nothing whatsoever to do with the gods, and is something that just naturally crops up among sapient species without any action by the gods. In which case, this raises a fundamental question: what in Lyssa’s name IS “choosing” the Chosen? The answer to that could well go into the basic fundamentals of how Tyrian magic and cosmology, leading to major revelations.

Nitpicky Three: That the gods, despite otherwise having been largely hands-off since the Exodus and all but silent since not long after GW1 such that some NPCs are wondering if they even still exist, have still been looking into Tyria on a regular basis and picking people out as Chosen – not only from the races that worship them but also from races that have no other connection to them. Again, this would raise question that would lead to major revelations when the answers finally came: Why have the gods continued selecting Chosen when otherwise they appear to have abandoned Tyria entirely? What are their motives for selecting Chosen from among races that ignore or even hate them as well as races that follow their direction?

Those are the sorts of questions that I’m referring to when I say that Caithe, or any member of a playable race apart from humans, turning out to be Chosen would have major repercussions. It’s not a case of “this can’t happen!” – since while the logical assumptions would suggest it can’t, there’s no evidence to test those assumptions against. However, if it turns out that those assumptions are incorrect, then that raises a whole slew of questions about how a member of a race with no known connection to the gods can be Chosen – the simplest answer being that the race does have some connection that we don’t know of, and the others involve deep questions as to what it means to be Chosen (and Ascended) and just how these states relate to the gods that will likely require going deeply into how the world of Tyria and its surrounding cosmology works in order to get the answers.

From a scientist’s perspective, I kinda want it to turn out that Caithe is Chosen, because it will be fascinating to see where ArenaNet takes it from there. Because experiments that just show what you expected from the theories are boring – it’s when things go wildly off, and you know it’s not the result of some error in the experiment, that things get really interesting.

Astralporing.1957:

Remember, canonically Zhaitan is the weakest of all the elder dragons.

Where did it say? It was pretty much the most aggressive dragon before it was killed.

Slowpokeking.8720:

Where did it say? It was pretty much the most aggressive dragon before it was killed.

To be fair being aggressive isn’t the same as being strong.
In fact in many cases it is the complete opposite. The creature being aggressive in order to scare the enemy rather than facing it in normal combat (which it would in many cases lose).

Personally….. I really hope its not Turai.
(Unless he is showing us how to travel to Elona through some magical gate that connects both deserts)

As much as I love his character in Guild Wars and GW lore….. he belongs in Elona.

We are heading west into the Maguuma jungle…. not traveling southeast into the crystal desert.

Just because there is sand in the jungle does not mean you should put all the things that belong in Elona in Maguuma.

…but that seems to be the direction Anet wants to take with this game….

We aren’t going to see Cantha….. so they brought us Cantha in a blimp.

…and now it looks like they are tacking things from Elona onto the Maguuma jungle stuff just because both places have sand.

First Glint…… now Turai….. if we aren’t actually going to Elona and we are going to have Elona crammed in with the Maguuma jungle, I’m going to be ten different types of disappointed.

I’m crossing my fingers and I’m praying that all of this is leading up to players being able to travel to Elona…. and Anet is not just cramming nostalgia into the wrong places.

Astralporing.1957:

Slowpokeking.8720:

Shouldn’t Mordremoth be easier to take down than Zhaitan? Zhaitan had a whole nation of corpses plus many ship crew to use from the beginning, spent 120 years to build its army and expand the territory, consume as much magic as it could. Mordremoth didn’t have such time and resources.

Zhaitan is a dragon that has to utilize already existing resources (corpses). Mordremoth’s creatures on the other hand (like Primordius’ Destroyers) seem to be separate beings. And, of course, since Mordrem creatures are plants, they can simply by seeded by the score (and, as we could see, can grow really fast).

Remember, canonically Zhaitan is the weakest of all the elder dragons.

Where did you get that? As far as I know, Mordy corrupts other living beings just like Primordus and the other Elder Dragons do. Plants don’t have organs and the Mordrem evidently do, so it would lead us to believe they are also (formerly) living beings corrupted by Mordy.

Tom Gore.4035:

Where did you get that? As far as I know, Mordy corrupts other living beings just like Primordus and the other Elder Dragons do. Plants don’t have organs and the Mordrem evidently do, so it would lead us to believe they are also (formerly) living beings corrupted by Mordy.

None of the Elder Dragons need other beings to corrupt to form minions. It’s just a process they prefer for certain minions.

• Primordus can shape minions out of stone and lava/magma.
• Bubbles, from what little knowledge we know of it, can twist the water into tentacled horrors.
• Jormag can create corrupted ice elementals.
• Mordy can grow his vines. (The wolves are also plants, and they are simply using the bones of a dead wolf as a framework to grow around.)
• Kralk’s, best shown by the Shatterer, can create constructs from the land itself that bares his corruption.

While I’m sure Zhaitan could create minions without the need of bodies, he didn’t seem so inclined though.

Cuddy.6247:

Obsidian.1328:

I would argue Ascension doesn’t exist in GW2.

You’d be right. It doesn’t exist…yet.

The three glyphs on the wall above the shining portal though are the exact same as the three glyphs found at Augury Rock. Then they tease us with a ghost that’s the spitting image of The Ghostly Hero? That isn’t coincidental.

Not coincidental at all. But even after the “Echo” trials, it still doesn’t exist in GW2…yet, of course. In the Priory, even Ogden says that the PC isn’t Ascended, merely that they are recreating the ritual to get at another thing: Divine Fire.

Rather strange ANet used a mechanic that was historically used to become Ascended… to open a door. My only guess is that the cave used to be another actual place of Ascension back in the day. Heck, maybe there’s dozens of them littered throughout Tyria and we just haven’t found them. You know, like old post offices.

Has no one done a GW1-GW2 map overlay of the cave location yet?