Finish resolving unfinished HoT plot holes.

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Posted by: TheOrlyFactor.8341

TheOrlyFactor.8341

I’ve complained about this in a few other threads but I feel like now is the time to make a thread specifically for it.

Anet, I’m really tired of the Lost-style of storytelling you’ve decided to take on (I don’t know if there’s an actual term for this kind of storytelling), in which there are tons of unanswered questions and you dump on even more questions, only to answer one or two of those previous questions. There’s still stuff from HoT that hasn’t been resolved or touched upon that really should be settled before going any further into these new story plots. Just to name a few:

-Trahearne: Is he ever going to get a proper memorial for his sacrifice? Or is he just going to be forever snubbed?
-The Nightmare Court: What’s been going on with them ever since Faolain’s death? How has her death affected things?
-The Pale Tree: Are we ever going to actually go and visit her and see how she’s doing?
-Zojja and Logan: Are we ever going to see them either or get an actual update on them that isn’t just a line of dialogue from Zipper-Lips?

I mean, come on. I can only speak for myself when I say I’ve been waiting patiently for these points to be resolved only to have 10+ new shiny plot lines come up in LWS3 (I know it’s not literally 10+ new plot lines, I’m exaggerating). It’s frustrating and I’m losing my patience as well as hope for any kind of resolution and any drive to play GW2.

Is it voice actor availability that’s the problem for some of these (namely Pale Tree, Zojja, and Logan)? If so, why not find someone else to voice them, have them do their lines over. If I remember reading right, that’s what’s going on with the Male Charr VA. Find someone who’s more available.

I know I’m ranting and rambling and I’m probably all over the place with this post. I had to get this off of my chest. I’m just tired of the way the story is being handled. I’m tired of characters I care about being in some kind of limbo state, to the point that I’d rather them just be killed off so that there is some resolution. I mean, at least Eir fans got that going for them, even if her death was lame. I’m tired of more questions being brought up and burying old questions that are still waiting to be resolved.

I’m tired. :\

Playing GW2 for the story is like expecting plot in a porno. You’ll be left disappointed.

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Posted by: Muchacho.2390

Muchacho.2390

You forgot Malyck and his story. As Sylvari player i am actually interested the most about him and his tree…

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Posted by: anninke.7469

anninke.7469

I’d like to see those finished as well. I’m just afraid that we’re an irrelevant minority of another minority. It seems most people don’t really care about the story at all and those who do are usually more interested in what’s next than in how did that part end.
And there’s the fact that many people strongly dislike Trahearne for whatever …cough… stupid… cough reasons. (Yeah, I’m forever bitter about how they kittened with the poor guy )

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

Malyck

It’s been over four years and nothing so I wouldn’t get my hopes up for filling plot holes.

Even greater than him though is season one their is a massive unavoidable hole in the story for this game regarding new players and that hole is called Season 1.

New players go straight from Zhatian to a bunch of peeps calling them Boss and talking about a dead Sylvari you apparently killed called Scarlet. If there not going to fill in the backstories and whatnot there is no hope. Look at Braham I know him from his interactions with Tiami don’t know a thing about his or any other character prior thus my take on the edgy version is to just end him or chew him out and drop him I have no attachment whatsoever ever to him or the others not a lick of character development probably because I never knew them prior or viewed any introduction. There trying to build a story in which a huge chunk is missing thus filling holes is probably the last thing they’ll do.

Most people don’t care about the story because what story is there beyond the core game? After Zhatian it’s just a jumbled mess that only someone who has been a here since the start of season 1 could hope that ever care about.

(edited by Doam.8305)

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Posted by: BrettM.9062

BrettM.9062

I care, though I missed much of season 1. (Bioshock 2, Bioshock Infinite, and the Skyrim Dragonborn DLC took me out for a little, and then I got hooked on Skyrim modding, and the next thing I knew … ) The last thing I remember of season 1 is helping refugees in Diessa, without knowing what they were fleeing. Then I came back after the start of season 2 and had to buy the first couple of episodes.

The big loose ends certainly need some wrapping up. So do some of the small ones that are easily forgotten.

For example, there was a rather strange interaction in Camp Resolve between Rox and a supposed “old friend from her mining days”. Is she in some kind of trouble? Is there some unrevealed drama in her life comparable to the drama the other characters have been going through? Rox has, so far, been the most stable and sane person in the group, but also very private. Is she hiding something?

Then there’s the forgotten. What happened to them? They were still around when the Zephyrites/Exalted were recruited. There were still at least some around when Tarir was built. But then we read tablets citing the words of the last of them. Yet we know that they are immensely long-lived at the very least. In GW1 we spoke to one in the Desolation who was still carrying a grudge against the Margonites from over 1,000 years before. Did they die? Or just go elsewhere?

What about Belinda’s spirit in the sword? Now there’s a setup if ever I saw one. A restless spirit inhabiting an artifact in active use? The moment it happened I heard Trahearne in my head saying “This won’t end well.” (I also have to wonder at Jory. After all the ferocious talk about wanting to stick that blade into Mordremoth and get revenge, she seemed perfectly content to just guard the team doing the job from minions. No fuss at all.)

The Exalted finally acknowledged the existence of Gleam, previously dismissed in the game as just a myth. So what happened to that first progeny of Glint? Did the Brotherhood fail and let the destroyers get to her at some point? Did she go bad, perhaps deciding to serve Kralkatorric?

I’m sure with a little time I could think of several such minor threads that need a little resolution.

Edit: Oh, and about the Nightmare Court — what the heck were they doing in the Heart of Maguuma anyway? According to Faolin, they didn’t want to be controlled by Mordy any more than they wanted to be “controlled” by the Pale Tree. Did they think they were going to be able to fight it? Or were they just spying in hopes of finding a defense for themselves, or maybe even something they could use to enhance their own power? Perhaps something that would allow them to influence or control the Pale Tree?

(edited by BrettM.9062)

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Posted by: Kirukia.9120

Kirukia.9120

Completely agreed on the LS1 thing. Why haven’t they released it? At least as a pay to play pack like LS2… I started playing at the end of LS1 (over 2 years ago) so I didn’t get to fight Scarlet at all because it ended before I was level 80. It’s a huge gap that doesn’t make sense to new players and also a lot of older players. I was thrown into DE 2.0 without knowing who any of the characters were. I had to google them to find out anything about them when I started LS2. I honestly had no idea who they were.

I just find it odd that they would release LS2 to everyone after the fact but not LS1?

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

It’s not odd, it;‘s just an enormous amount of work to convert LS1 into the newer format. The original format LS1 was released in wouldn’t work with the World today and it would still need significant time and resources to iron out new bugs with the updated code or new tech to put it in its own instanced world map.

Simply put, there aren’t enough resources to make LS3, an expac and LS1. Whilst I 100% agree LS1 is needed, I’m not sure the wider community would want new and future content dropped to make it happen.

As for HoT loose ends, I think they are done and dusted. If we end up taking down 1 or more dragons before the expac, then even more lore and potential will disappear. I just hope a rich and detailed story is being set up to counterbalance what is lost.

(edited by Randulf.7614)

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

Do not hold your breath. There are loads of plot threads that are still left over from GW1 that have never been answered. Don’t expect ANet to answer theses anytime soon.

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Posted by: Kirukia.9120

Kirukia.9120

It’s not odd, it;‘s just an enormous amount of work to convert LS1 into the newer format. The original format LS1 was released in wouldn’t work with the World today and it would still need significant time and resources to iron out new bugs with the updated code or new tech to put it in its own instanced world map.

Simply put, there aren’t enough resources to make LS3, an expac and LS1. Whilst I 100% agree LS1 is needed, I’m not sure the wider community would want new and future content dropped to make it happen.

As for HoT loose ends, I think they are done and dusted. If we end up taking down 1 or more dragons before the expac, then even more lore and potential will disappear. I just hope a rich and detailed story is being set up to counterbalance what is lost.

I suppose at this point they don’t have the resources, but I’m not sure why it wasn’t released before. I don’t see why it wouldn’t work though? A lot of old story was set in destroyed LA before it was re-built and they just modified the locations when they re-made LA. They should still have the maps they can make available as instances if it requires an older map, no?

I don’t think we will take down any dragons before the next expansion pack. Hopefully in the interim we will see some of those plot holes covered and new ones opening leading into the new expansion. At the very least I think we will hear from/about Zojja, Logan, and Kasmeer. Maybe the Pale Tree. I don’t know about the Nightmare Court or Malyck. I think the Nightmare Court just isn’t important to the story at this point (especially since it’s in disarray) so we aren’t going to hear much about it. I think Trahearne should get some sort okittennowledgement but because he was basically signed off due to opposition to his character I don’t think he will.

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Posted by: Randulf.7614

Randulf.7614

LS1 was a series of open world events and festivals. When one episode went live, the previous was removed from the game. Making them instanced for map wide populations which took up a few episodes means
a) ensuring they have the tech to do. Megaservers aren’t the same thing as static districts
b) a lot of bug testing and QA. It took a lot of work for them to get SAB working again after all the changes to the code and that’s just an instance.

Then you end up with populations split up all over the place and not enough ppl to make sure the events are completable. The Watchwork Invasions alone benefited from full maps as did the Battle for LA and Scarlet. To re-scale them would mean more work.

Why didn’t they do it earlier? Well LS2 was a new format again and there would have been no point converting LS1 to a format that could have proven not to work as a storytelling format.

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Posted by: Kirukia.9120

Kirukia.9120

LS1 was a series of open world events and festivals. When one episode went live, the previous was removed from the game. Making them instanced for map wide populations which took up a few episodes means
a) ensuring they have the tech to do. Megaservers aren’t the same thing as static districts
b) a lot of bug testing and QA. It took a lot of work for them to get SAB working again after all the changes to the code and that’s just an instance.

Then you end up with populations split up all over the place and not enough ppl to make sure the events are completable. The Watchwork Invasions alone benefited from full maps as did the Battle for LA and Scarlet. To re-scale them would mean more work.

Why didn’t they do it earlier? Well LS2 was a new format again and there would have been no point converting LS1 to a format that could have proven not to work as a storytelling format.

The more you know. Again, I haven’t played LS1 so I was under the impression it more or less followed the current LS format. It makes it more reasonable but still disappointing. These are the types of things you miss when a whole LS is unavailable I suppose.

Thanks for the explanation.

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Posted by: BrettM.9062

BrettM.9062

At least let us follow up on the identity of the mysterious “E”. We haven’t heard from him/her/it for a long, long time now, so it may not be very relevant any more, but it would be nice to know who or what was pushing our buttons in season 1 and 2.

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Posted by: Oldirtbeard.9834

Oldirtbeard.9834

Season One will be revisited in Fractal form.

Malyc will never be addressed.

The Mother Tree and Trahearn will be adressed in a later episode probably if we need to consult her regarding a vision or Elder Dragon Magic influencing other minions.

Maybe there will be a Nightmare Court attack showing them corrupted with death magic regarding if Dylvari get effected by Dragon Magic.

Perhaps Sylvari don’t have funerals they’re a young race and they all seem to be connected in a hive mind so perhaps they process grief under the radar.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

One player’s “plot hole” is another player’s lever for speculation. I know some of these gaps have been around for 4 years, but honestly, I prefer that we aren’t told everything and that we’re allowed to guess about what’s going on. Perhaps our imaginations produce better stories than what ANet could deliver is the short narrative time they have during Living World.

Two examples from outside the game:

  • Philip Jose Farmer’s Riverworld was much better as an unfinished story, in my opinion. The explanation for how & why of the world was too pedestrian for such an epic story and it is, even in retrospect, hard to imagine how the author could have come closer to anything as awesome as many of us imagined reading the first book.
  • ABC’s Lost would have been better if it had been cancelled rather than allowed to finish its final year. Another epic story with a pedestrian explanation.

tl;dr I’m happy with the status quo of ANet leaving holes in the backgrounds and futures of key figures.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Tekey.7946

Tekey.7946

One player’s “plot hole” is another player’s lever for speculation. I know some of these gaps have been around for 4 years, but honestly, I prefer that we aren’t told everything and that we’re allowed to guess about what’s going on. Perhaps our imaginations produce better stories than what ANet could deliver is the short narrative time they have during Living World.

[…]

tl;dr I’m happy with the status quo of ANet leaving holes in the backgrounds and futures of key figures.

Each to their own I guess. There are places where you can leave a story open as a dramatic device. The plot holes of GW2 are definitely not like that.

tl;dr It’s the job of the story department of Anet to write a good story. It’s not the players who should find an explanation to their plot holes.

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Posted by: Ashen.2907

Ashen.2907

-Trahearne: Is he ever going to get a proper memorial for his sacrifice? Or is he just going to be forever snubbed?

-The Nightmare Court: What’s been going on with them ever since Faolain’s death? How has her death affected things?

-The Pale Tree: Are we ever going to actually go and visit her and see how she’s doing?

-Zojja and Logan: Are we ever going to see them either or get an actual update on them that isn’t just a line of dialogue from Zipper-Lips?

I’m not sure that those qualify as plot holes.

Not everyone who dies gets a memorial. It happens. Particularly if his decisions are seen as having needlessly led to the deaths of thousands of soldiers.

The Nightmare court is still there. Perhaps. Not really a major concern at the moment (particularly if they are in disarray due to the loss of their leader) though.

I hear that the Pale tree is ill. Trees can have life spans measured in centuries, perhaps we need to be patient. Personally I don’t see it as being all that important at this time. There are likely many hundreds, if not thousands, of pact members who are still dealing with the aftermath of the prior two dragon fights…and we haven’t visited all of them either. A lot on our plate.

Zoja and Logan who? Former comrades in arms who we are no more uniformed about than any number of other such who I am sure we are thinking about while we deal with pressing matters.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

One player’s “plot hole” is another player’s lever for speculation. I know some of these gaps have been around for 4 years, but honestly, I prefer that we aren’t told everything and that we’re allowed to guess about what’s going on. Perhaps our imaginations produce better stories than what ANet could deliver is the short narrative time they have during Living World.

[…]

tl;dr I’m happy with the status quo of ANet leaving holes in the backgrounds and futures of key figures.

Each to their own I guess. There are places where you can leave a story open as a dramatic device. The plot holes of GW2 are definitely not like that.

tl;dr It’s the job of the story department of Anet to write a good story. It’s not the players who should find an explanation to their plot holes.

Again, I don’t think it’s the job of ANet to fill in every possible hole — some gaps are important for a good story. My point isn’t that players should find explanations; my point is that it’s a more interesting story when some things aren’t explained.

In LS2, when we “suddenly” knew the name of the new threat, that was a plot hole — something happened inside the story that lacked precedent. When we don’t know Canach’s backstory, that’s a mystery, not kitten.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

None of these are plot holes, just plot threads. And the answer is when they become directly relevant again.

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Posted by: Doam.8305

Doam.8305

For the people defending and giving excuses for the lack of season 1 content

How do you expect people to care at all about future story segments?

It’s like telling people to read a certain book but also forcing them to start half way through after all the character introductions are done. People were more optimistic about this games story when it was coherant nowadays it’s random character you know nothing about chewing you out for no reason and the obvious response is to ditch em. You have no connection about this stranger yelling at you so why should I care and why is my character such a sponge. Topics all over the place in this regard and some of it might be there is no connection whatsoever to the random group of strangers that decided to kidnap your character out of the blue.

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Posted by: KronosBaelfire.6289

KronosBaelfire.6289

You forgot Malyck and his story. As Sylvari player i am actually interested the most about him and his tree…

As a hardcore Sylvari lover I’ve been waiting way to long to find out about Malyck but that’s one question of the original PS that needs to be answered. Anet just throws stuff into the mix and then forgets about it. Now we have HoT with a ton of plot holes that are still unresolved. We need closure Anet!!!

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

I just find it odd that they would release LS2 to everyone after the fact but not LS1?

LS2 was designed from the ground up to be permanent, replayable content (specifically because LS1 wasn’t, and that approach didn’t work as well as Anet thought it would).

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Posted by: Ticky.5831

Ticky.5831

How do you expect people to care at all about future story segments?

By reading the in-game S1 primer.

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Posted by: anninke.7469

anninke.7469

How do you expect people to care at all about future story segments?

By reading the in-game S1 primer.

Something like “and you deeply care for him, him and her, because you’ve read that you do”?
Can’t say it works well for me…

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Posted by: brokenserenity.4638

brokenserenity.4638

How do you expect people to care at all about future story segments?

By reading the in-game S1 primer.

Something like “and you deeply care for him, him and her, because you’ve read that you do”?
Can’t say it works well for me…

The wiki also does a kitten good job of filling in the blanks of ls1.

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Posted by: anninke.7469

anninke.7469

How do you expect people to care at all about future story segments?

By reading the in-game S1 primer.

Something like “and you deeply care for him, him and her, because you’ve read that you do”?
Can’t say it works well for me…

The wiki also does a kitten good job of filling in the blanks of ls1.

Yep, it’s awesome for filling in the blanks. But sadly not so great for making a player care for someone. I mean – I know what happened being the story-addict I am. But if one does not experience it directly, it’s kind of distant. Like a person appearing at your door saying you had a wonderful time full of mutual sympathy last summer and became close friends; that person has, I don’t know, photos or letter or some other prove confirming it, but you have no recollection of that at all.

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Posted by: BrettM.9062

BrettM.9062

You might want to have a look at the “Tyrian Characterology” series of videos on Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBGk0XzqwJ4). They are a pretty good introduction to each “Biconics” character and his/her history during the course of season 1. Each character profile includes relevant video clips from season 1, so you can see some of the action and interactions with other characters. These may help you immerse yourself with these characters more than text summaries on the wiki or in game.

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Posted by: Pache.9406

Pache.9406

Actually, OP, you failed to mention any plot holes. You only mentioned things that haven’t yet been told. A plot hole would be that something happened in the story, as a consequence of something that hasn’t been told, or simply wasn’t accurate with that which was already established in the story. So until either of those happen, there’s no plot holes, whatever you’re so eager to find out, will come sooner or later. Just that none of what you mentioned is relevant to the current story. But it will all take part of it in the future, Nightmare Court, Pale Tree, Logan, Zojja, all will be told when it’s relevant to the current events. Also, nobody gives a penny about Trahearne, he was a worthless character, who was named leader of the Pact for no good reason, who never fought anyone (we did everything for him), voice acting was one of the worse in the game, and was absolutely pathetic. He got the death he deserved, slow, meaningless, and irrelevant to the story (which is why nobody mourns him or talks about him in the game).

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Posted by: Cobalt Raven.3986

Cobalt Raven.3986

I’m pretty sure “things that have yet to be told” that were stated to have been slated for a certain arc (it was mentioned by an ANet staff member that Malyck’s arc WAS supposed to be in HoT but that ran out of time and couldn’t make it fit) counts as a plot hole, as does “how the Nightmare Court ended up in Maguuma in the first place” because last time I checked, there weren’t any Courtiers on the plane.

Also I would be cautious about generalizing that “nobody cares about Trahearne” because at least one person who replied here has expressed a positive opinion about him, and I’m another one. This is also undocumented on the forum, but a large group of people on at least Tarnished Coast had a memorial march in his honour (organized via tumblr). He has a fairly sizable, if not monstrous following.

I would, however, wait until LS3 is concluded before saying about the Pale Tree, since there is a chance we may get an instance to check up on her (sylvari players would appreciate a bit of closure from that front), a chance to check up on Logan and Zojja and possibly a little time to honour our own fallen. I think Trahearne should at least get a memorial- he was the Pact Marshal and did have a rather large role in running the thing from the background.

*throws in 2 copper

I am totally Sylvari trash.

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Posted by: ugrakarma.9416

ugrakarma.9416

LS1 is being “compacted” on Fractals. Not to complain, the last one, the tower, was a good one.

What Anet need do for awhile(In which they are supposedly occupied with more important things), is little polishments on lore resources. A even, a better “encyclopaedia” ingame, just little improvments that doenst require big work.

1. A better history encyclopedia.
2. Nothing too sophisticated, a menu somewhere, in the home instance in Rata Sum for example, where you would activate a device, where you would choose the kinetics of things that you have already opened in the game.
3. They could copy the concept of “campaign” from neverwinter online, in the “campaign” screen the player sees everything related to that “expansion”, items, lore, and maps, and titles. But to be clear, only the “interface” (UI), not the mechanics, the mechanics is a terrible grindfest. A lot of people have no sense of where to go in the game. The neverwinter campaign interface makes the players set a goal. A sample here.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Here’s someone else’s explanation as to why they prefer some holes to remain unfilled in movies. The sentiment mirrors my own, although I haven’t seen the movies mentioned in the article.

http://www.vulture.com/2015/10/movies-need-to-stop-explaining-everything.html

Warning: minor spoilers for the Star Wars & Max Max franchises. (Only hints of secrets revealed; no actual spoilers.)

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”