Guild Wars 2

I’ve been berry farming for the past few days, and almost each time, I saw different necros with full pets out, GS4 auto-cast on parked at the spot shown in the attached image, farming little spiders and occasional trolls.

So I guess my main questions are: Is this kind of farming considered okay? If not, why is this skill and others that are similar even allowed to auto-cast? Their only use that I’ve seen is AFK farming like this.

Thanks in advance for your time.

Anet could easily fix if they didn’t want it to be (removed auto cast from nightfall and remove exp/loot tag from all AI creatures). My guess is they are working on it or don’t mind it existing.
As I said to a guy in map chat, I don’t really mind it though. In fact they help by killing the annoying spiders that slow you down during berry runs.

I saw GS4 auto attack reapers…

but what baffles me most is that most of them seem to cast certain spells or attacks when a mob is close… Must be 3rd party software (aka botting), right?

Rankomonaut.4708:

I saw GS4 auto attack reapers…

but what baffles me most is that most of them seem to cast certain spells or attacks when a mob is close… Must be 3rd party software (aka botting), right?

Or they are playing the game while also watching a movie, which is ok.

Lahmia.2193:

Anet could easily fix if they didn’t want it to be (removed auto cast from nightfall and remove exp/loot tag from all AI creatures). My guess is they are working on it or don’t mind it existing.
As I said to a guy in map chat, I don’t really mind it though. In fact they help by killing the annoying spiders that slow you down during berry runs.

instead of changing skills which might hurt them why not actually take action and ban who ever uses a bot

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Rankomonaut.4708:

I saw GS4 auto attack reapers…

but what baffles me most is that most of them seem to cast certain spells or attacks when a mob is close… Must be 3rd party software (aka botting), right?

Or they are playing the game while also watching a movie, which is ok.

“Playing” the game, more like. Necros afk in Bitterfrost and engis afk in Lake Doric… gw2 is turning into the afk farm fest that is BDO. I hope Anet does something about it; many players farming like this actually go idle… I’ve hung around some spots, tried to interact with those players and only a few ever respond…

I still maintain that Anet could have some fun with this. If winterberries has the same people inside a 2400 range AoE or something for 10 minutes, just dump a very angry invoulnerable berry troll out of the sky, instakilling people in a wide swath around it using a long channel AoE (ie easily dodgeable if the player is active).after a minute or two it runs away. Players killed by the berry troll cannot be ressed, they need to respawn.

Then just apply the same principle on the centaur camp and you’re set.

Or just use the berries themselves. Every 3 minutes, they pulse a berry freeze blast (10s expanding AoE circle). When it goes pop, everything freezes in place (including summons, but excluding ice based mobs of course). The freeze last as long as aegis (ie months) and the only way to get out is to port to a waypoint. Again, problem solved for very little effort and next to no impact to normal players.

Dondarrion.2748:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Rankomonaut.4708:

I saw GS4 auto attack reapers…

but what baffles me most is that most of them seem to cast certain spells or attacks when a mob is close… Must be 3rd party software (aka botting), right?

Or they are playing the game while also watching a movie, which is ok.

“Playing” the game, more like. Necros afk in Bitterfrost and engis afk in Lake Doric… gw2 is turning into the afk farm fest that is BDO. I hope Anet does something about it; many players farming like this actually go idle… I’ve hung around some spots, tried to interact with those players and only a few ever respond…

I wouldn’t respond to someone asking me if I was afk either — if you think there’s an issue, report them and let ANet deal with it. I don’t understand why you have a problem if people are watching a movie while farming? Farming is an inherently dull activity and some people like to spice it up a bit.

Besides that, how is GW2 in any way similar to what goes on in BDO? BDO has a feature that enables people to fish or ‘craft’ with the game running as a background task; ANet’s rules specifically prohibit intentionally leaving your toon idle.

zealex.9410:

Lahmia.2193:

Anet could easily fix if they didn’t want it to be (removed auto cast from nightfall and remove exp/loot tag from all AI creatures). My guess is they are working on it or don’t mind it existing.
As I said to a guy in map chat, I don’t really mind it though. In fact they help by killing the annoying spiders that slow you down during berry runs.

instead of changing skills which might hurt them why not actually take action and ban who ever uses a bot

Except they aren’t using a bot. They’re using a set of skills that are working as Anet intended and getting these results. Killing part of your fan base instead of fixing it is a very bad way to go about things. My idea would, in theory, fix both the necro spider farm and engi leather farm.

edit: the only time I’ve seen people use Nightfall on auto cast is for either afk farming or in wvw to afk reward track. Seems like a bad design to me, that should be removed.

Or everyone could go about their day without ruining other peoples days because they don’t like people earning things with very little effort while following the rules provided by Anet. ¯\(?)/¯ The only time the “AFK” farmers are obnoxious is when they gloat about it in map chat while you’re bringing stuff up about events, and the only people I’ve seen do that are the Doric boys.

If you suspect someone, simply report them. It’s allowed, but only if the player is actually there. If they’re still at it days later, eventually a GM will whisper them to check.

The idea of AFK/botting runs counter to what I think playing a game is about, but I don’t really see how it negatively affects how I enjoy the game.

The only thing I can think of is that they might skew the economy. Is that why others are so bothered about it?

Sarpan.9074:

The idea of AFK/botting runs counter to what I think playing a game is about, but I don’t really see how it negatively affects how I enjoy the game.

The only thing I can think of is that they might skew the economy. Is that why others are so bothered about it?

It also runs counter to ANet’s rules, which is why they suspend accounts engaged in AFK farming or botting.

The issue here seems to be two fold:

• Some people think ANet should be even stricter about where to draw the line — ANet is okay if people aren’t putting their full attention into the game; some folks think that should be prohibited, the same as farming AFK.
• Some people (not necessarily the same ones) think that more people are botting or AFK farming than ANet does.

Dawdler.8521:

I still maintain that Anet could have some fun with this. If winterberries has the same people inside a 2400 range AoE or something for 10 minutes, just dump a very angry invoulnerable berry troll out of the sky, instakilling people in a wide swath around it using a long channel AoE (ie easily dodgeable if the player is active).after a minute or two it runs away. Players killed by the berry troll cannot be ressed, they need to respawn.

Then just apply the same principle on the centaur camp and you’re set.

Or just use the berries themselves. Every 3 minutes, they pulse a berry freeze blast (10s expanding AoE circle). When it goes pop, everything freezes in place (including summons, but excluding ice based mobs of course). The freeze last as long as aegis (ie months) and the only way to get out is to port to a waypoint. Again, problem solved for very little effort and next to no impact to normal players.

For the LOL

The freeze blast is similar to something ESO just put in to combat afk farmers at dolmens (stone circles that spawn waves of mobs starting every 15 minutes or so). I don’t recall the details as it was just something I read in patch notes and haven’t tested for myself, but the gist is that if you stand still in range of a dolmen during a mob spawn time, a charge grows under you and explodes for massive damage on anyone else who wasn’t moving during the charge’s growth. I haven’t yet seen forum comments on what impact it’s had on the “rubber banders” (so named for holding down their attack with a rubber band while they leave the computer, it seems, not for any in game lag moves).

Perhaps making it a debuff on a non-moving person in a berry patch’s area might work better than a berry-centered constant cycle. That way you don’t get big ground effect circles interfering with the view unless someone’s being naughty, at which point it’s super easy to spot the naughty person. And also have it affect only the debuffed person. It’d be rather annoying to run up to a berry patch and have to wait for the blast to finish, while dodging mobs, just because an afker had to be warned off.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It also runs counter to ANet’s rules, which is why they suspend accounts engaged in AFK farming or botting.

The issue here seems to be two fold:

• Some people think ANet should be even stricter about where to draw the line — ANet is okay if people aren’t putting their full attention into the game; some folks think that should be prohibited, the same as farming AFK.
• Some people (not necessarily the same ones) think that more people are botting or AFK farming than ANet does.

Yeah, I get it’s against the rules, and I’m all for following the rules and having those who break them pay the price. I’ll report someone any time I see something egregious, no problem.

However, I have yet to be made aware of how someone AFK/bot farming has negatively affected my enjoyment of the game. Maybe they have and I just don’t realize it.

They should just add an elite vinetooth that spawns when you stand in one place for too long. Maybe 15 minutes. It will spawn and kill the AFK farmer…problem solved.

Rift actually had something like this put in to combat people AFK fishing. Mob spawns and kill the fisherman. Those not AFK can easily kill what spawns.

Sarpan.9074:

However, I have yet to be made aware of how someone AFK/bot farming has negatively affected my enjoyment of the game. Maybe they have and I just don’t realize it.

Whenever people cheat the system to get rewards without effort, it affects everyone else, especially in a game (like GW2) that has a completely global economy. The more bots there are, the more coin flows into the economy, along with other forms of wealth. That affects how much gold there is for bots to buy the shinies they sell on the black market and the price we get for own own loot.

That’s the part that affects you or I, regardless of whether we are concerned about the act of AFK farming or of botting.

Just curious: what are people “farming” in BFF standing in one place? Not Winterberries because there is only 1 harvest / node / 24hrs afaik.

Djinn.9245:

Just curious: what are people “farming” in BFF standing in one place? Not Winterberries because there is only 1 harvest / node / 24hrs afaik.

Karma, and whatever loot drops from mobs. Karma is the big one, though. Using the purchasable boost thingy, you get it randomly dropping when you kill mobs.

The good side is: its not killing the map like the engi farm in Lake Doric.

Katastroff.1045:

The good side is: its not killing the map like the engi farm in Lake Doric.

How is it “killing the map”?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Whenever people cheat the system to get rewards without effort, it affects everyone else, especially in a game (like GW2) that has a completely global economy. The more bots there are, the more coin flows into the economy, along with other forms of wealth. That affects how much gold there is for bots to buy the shinies they sell on the black market and the price we get for own own loot.

That’s the part that affects you or I, regardless of whether we are concerned about the act of AFK farming or of botting.

That’s all a bit esoteric for my level of involvement in this game, though I can see how those who are much more involved in the economy than I would be annoyed at the skewing by botters. However, for the way I play, it’s not that big of a thing.

So, no, it really doesn’t hurt my enjoyment, but again, breaking the rules is not cool and I report bots when I notice them, I just don’t get too bent out of shape about the whole thing.

Also, I don’t really get the benefit of gold farming in this came since there is an official way to buy gold for real money, unlike WoW back when I played it.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Katastroff.1045:

The good side is: its not killing the map like the engi farm in Lake Doric.

How is it “killing the map”?

Just 1 exemple:

Imelhoof poped when i tried the engi farming. He was greeted by about 175 turrets. but killing him fail because no one went after him when he left the turret’s range.

I used to go there before that engi farm stuff started, doing the Saindra Heaven events were really fun. But now i rarely see anyone when i go there. So now, i only go there for the peach and magic dailies.

It might be populated enough on week ends, but it used to be populated all the time and i dont think Draconis Mons has anything to do with it. Check out Bitterfrost and its always well populated.

Sarpan.9074:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Whenever people cheat the system to get rewards without effort, it affects everyone else, especially in a game (like GW2) that has a completely global economy. The more bots there are, the more coin flows into the economy, along with other forms of wealth. That affects how much gold there is for bots to buy the shinies they sell on the black market and the price we get for own own loot.

That’s the part that affects you or I, regardless of whether we are concerned about the act of AFK farming or of botting.

That’s all a bit esoteric for my level of involvement in this game, though I can see how those who are much more involved in the economy than I would be annoyed at the skewing by botters. However, for the way I play, it’s not that big of a thing.

So, no, it really doesn’t hurt my enjoyment, but again, breaking the rules is not cool and I report bots when I notice them, I just don’t get too bent out of shape about the whole thing.

Also, I don’t really get the benefit of gold farming in this came since there is an official way to buy gold for real money, unlike WoW back when I played it.

You originally asked how anyone was affected.

You’re right that the impact is indirect, but it’s no less real. If you don’t eat at McDonald’s, you’re not directly affected by their decision (long ago) to introduce the McDLT — but indirectly, that new offering increased the demand on the US (and global) market for tomatoes, which resulted in higher prices and a different type of tomato becoming more commonly sold.

So sure, you can play GW2 contentedly without worrying about bots and gold farmers and gold sellers or hackers… but that doesn’t mean that they don’t affect your game.

Katastroff.1045:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Katastroff.1045:

The good side is: its not killing the map like the engi farm in Lake Doric.

How is it “killing the map”?

Just 1 exemple:

Imelhoof poped when i tried the engi farming. He was greeted by about 175 turrets. but killing him fail because no one went after him when he left the turret’s range.

I used to go there before that engi farm stuff started, doing the Saindra Heaven events were really fun. But now i rarely see anyone when i go there. So now, i only go there for the peach and magic dailies.

It might be populated enough on week ends, but it used to be populated all the time and i dont think Draconis Mons has anything to do with it. Check out Bitterfrost and its always well populated.

So I don’t think your example explains how the turret farm is killing the map. It just illustrates that things change and that there’s a lot of stuff going on.

Bitterfrost is a far easier location to farm unbound (and loot for that matter) than Doric; that’s why it remains populated. Immelhof hardly ever got taken down when Doric first appeared and for many weeks after. That only changed when people started to zerg-farm leather.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Katastroff.1045:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Katastroff.1045:

The good side is: its not killing the map like the engi farm in Lake Doric.

How is it “killing the map”?

Just 1 exemple:

Imelhoof poped when i tried the engi farming. He was greeted by about 175 turrets. but killing him fail because no one went after him when he left the turret’s range.

I used to go there before that engi farm stuff started, doing the Saindra Heaven events were really fun. But now i rarely see anyone when i go there. So now, i only go there for the peach and magic dailies.

It might be populated enough on week ends, but it used to be populated all the time and i dont think Draconis Mons has anything to do with it. Check out Bitterfrost and its always well populated.

So I don’t think your example explains how the turret farm is killing the map. It just illustrates that things change and that there’s a lot of stuff going on.

Bitterfrost is a far easier location to farm unbound (and loot for that matter) than Doric; that’s why it remains populated. Immelhof hardly ever got taken down when Doric first appeared and for many weeks after. That only changed when people started to zerg-farm leather.

Go check it out, you’ll see.

Here you go. Lots of stuff going on.

=P

You’ve shown the turret farm. You haven’t explained how it’s killing the map.

And, not much of a turret farm, at that.

A heat map showing all players in the most populated instance would be needed to determine the map was ‘dead’ because of a turret farm.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

And, not much of a turret farm, at that.

A heat map showing all players in the most populated instance would be needed to determine the map was ‘dead’ because of a turret farm.

That would be an interesting map, for any instance.

Have you seen the Event and Rift heat maps? I found them fascinating. (that_shaman, of course.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You’ve shown the turret farm. You haven’t explained how it’s killing the map.

It’s pretty obvious. I noticed the map die out as soon as people started zerging that area, then the casual AFKing made it far worse. Maps only hold around 50 people before the megaserver logic screws it up, so it only takes half that many to control the map. With a majority of the map at the farm, it means you’re far less likely to encounter players anywhere else, hence the dead map with nobody doing events. Those actually wanting to play end up being spread amongst all the maps, but since AFKing is so popular, the zerg is almost always in control, so the maps are dead and people stop showing up because of it.

This wouldn’t be a problem if megaservers were area based instead of the entire map, but that’s not really a possibility due to events. This is also why ArenaNet should stick to smaller maps, since you’re far more likely to run into other people, making them feel more populated even when they’re actually not.

Healix.5819:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You’ve shown the turret farm. You haven’t explained how it’s killing the map.

It’s pretty obvious. I noticed the map die out as soon as people started zerging that area, then the casual AFKing made it far worse. Maps only hold around 50 people before the megaserver logic screws it up, so it only takes half that many to control the map. With a majority of the map at the farm, it means you’re far less likely to encounter players anywhere else, hence the dead map with nobody doing events. Those actually wanting to play end up being spread amongst all the maps, but since AFKing is so popular, the zerg is almost always in control, so the maps are dead and people stop showing up because of it.

This wouldn’t be a problem if megaservers were area based instead of the entire map, but that’s not really a possibility due to events. This is also why ArenaNet should stick to smaller maps, since you’re far more likely to run into other people, making them feel more populated even when they’re actually not.

Sorry, it’s not obvious to me. I go to the map, I see people doing events.

Each of the other maps also has a unique draw for people. Bitterfrost has the winterberry farm and the keyless chest run, Ember Bay has some easy dailies and fun events, Draconis Mons is new + the backpack, and Bloodstone Fen has the stat swappable trinkets plus its own easy farms for nodes & events.

In contrast, I find the Lake Doric map to be annoying in its hearts, node farms, and it doesn’t (for me) have a fun event farm. It’s the only LS instance for which I didn’t complete the map. Among my friends & guildies, people choose any of the other four maps before returning to LD; it has nothing to do with turrets.

When the farm is nerfed shortly, my guess is that we won’t see any notable increase in people coming to the map for other reasons.

Fivona.5061:

It is no matter how hard you defend your toxic kind, Anet will cleanse you too.

Really? I haven’t seen ANY toxic comments by Ill-conceived Was Na. In fact all he has done in this thread is try to prompt someone posting into framing a more logical argument, supporting their thesis “engi farming is killing the map in Lake Doric” with reasoned points. I realize that rhetoric is a nearly lost art but that is still no call for invective against another player.

INCOMING TREBUCHET!

Fivona.5061:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You’ve shown the turret farm. You haven’t explained how it’s killing the map.

Due to high population of farmers new maps opens.
Normal people getting separated those maps.
Farmers not doing meta events.
Result = Failed events or try hard events.
So legit players leaving map.
Dead map.

That’s a really good point I haven’t considered yet. In general, I would say let them farm and mind your own business. The megaserver concept changes that attitude. If such a farm were in Sparkfly Fen, many people would not be able to do the Tequatl event, or everybody had to rely on LFG. For Triple Trouble, you already need so many people and decent organization that, with few exceptions, only gw2community succeeds.

It just tickled me that people could be so obtuse after being told multiple times how afk farms affect others; could people be any more dense? Probably yes when their behavior itself is being cast in a negative light their ego rises up.

I made a post about how this farm affected me. Dozens more have done the same.

Looking forward to actually completing the meta.

• NPCs are a resource, both in the sense of what they might drop and in how they’re tied to different areas, events and quest givers. When a handful of players camp an area to farm those NPCs, they monopolize that resource, denying other players access to more than the loot, they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts.

• Maps have finite limits, in regard to how many players may be on a map at once. Once that limit has been reached, players are shunted to spill-over maps. This can lead to players being stuck on either nearly empty maps (which, in turn, often results in maps cascade closing as players desperately search for more populated maps), or players being on maps with high populations, but too few active participants to complete events.

• Maps and events scale based on the number of players in an area. There isn’t an exclusion in the underlying code for “is just AFK farming”. The more people you have in a locale, the greater the increase in difficulty, and when half of them aren’t participating, it can lead to event failure. This has direct and tangible consequences on maps like Dry Top.

• The game’s economy, such as it is, is built and balanced around players actually playing in order to acquire items, currencies and other rewards. Farming creates imbalances, driving prices for some items up, devaluing other items, sometimes forcing developers to adjust pricing on some items while removing others (or making them more difficult to obtain).

• Developer time has to be spent dealing with issues caused by farmers, be they bots, truly AFK players or people just camping one spot for hours because the loot is too good to move on, even if the only issue present is player perception of what’s “fair” or “unfair”, allowed or disallowed, or what have you. That’s time not being spent fixing bugs, implementing new features, working on new content or addressing more important issues. Also, the methods used to address farming issues are rarely positive for the players who weren’t farming. Changes to skills or traits, changes to NPCs, changes to areas, even outright removal of rewards from defeating NPCs… a few people abusing something is all it takes for everyone to be punished.

Farming affects everyone, whether they want to admit it or not, whether they realize it or not. Yes, you might be able to buy something for a little less on the trading post, thanks to farmers, but you’re also paying more for something else, and that price might be currency, or it might also be map accessibility, event completion, future content, or even your entire build on a character. Farming is a selfish, self-centered activity which negatively impacts everyone (including the farmers, eventually) and, realistically, isn’t suited for a multi-player game in which much of what occurs in the open world is dependent on the participation of all in any given vicinity.

Amaxia, that’s the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you.

Still, getting worked up over it does no good. The most we can do it report and complain to Anet. Bots and AFK farmers have been around nigh forever and if the company isn’t doing something about it, we certainly can’t.

These miscreants may be affecting the game, but they’re not affecting my enjoyment of the game.

Amaxia.5784:

• The game’s economy, such as it is, is built and balanced around players actually playing in order to acquire items, currencies and other rewards. Farming creates imbalances, driving prices for some items up, devaluing other items, sometimes forcing developers to adjust pricing on some items while removing others (or making them more difficult to obtain).

lol no it’s not

The economy is built around a hellish grind for mats, tempting players to buy gems and skip it entirely.

People kittening about AFK farming probably have never tried to craft and Ascended armor or a Legendary.

Arenanet does this on purpose. eg. PvP used to be a great way to aquire ascended armor if you were a good PvPer, now it’s arguable worse than grinding for mats, requiring you to spend 500g+

Another example is Viper’s or Celestial gear, which is almost as difficult to obtain as an ascended armor

It’s the developers fault for encouraging farming by creating these disgusting grinds, which they promised they would not do

give Svanir some treb treatment like in LD

Amaxia.5784:

Farming is a selfish, self-centered activity which negatively impacts everyone (including the farmers, eventually) and, realistically, isn’t suited for a multi-player game in which much of what occurs in the open world is dependent on the participation of all in any given vicinity.

Surely you don’t mean people who need Iron Ore to craft something and then go to the zones that have Iron Ore nodes to farm them, right? Or players who need Sharp Claws and know that Drakes drop them and then seek areas where Drakes live to farm them.

Farming is not inherently negative. I agree with the rest of your points, I just think you could specify which kind of farming a negative impact on the game has.

Mavis.1463:

People kittening about AFK farming probably have never tried to craft and Ascended armor or a Legendary.

Are we playing the same game? I’ve never afk-farmed and I find getting ascended armor and weapons quite easy. I’m pretty sure most people who have ascended stuff never afk-farmed.

Amaxia.5784:

• NPCs are a resource, both in the sense of what they might drop and in how they’re tied to different areas, events and quest givers. When a handful of players camp an area to farm those NPCs, they monopolize that resource, denying other players access to more than the loot, they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts.

First, I am not a defender of afk farming. Any examination of my posts will show that I am against it. However your facts are incorrect. In this specific case at least, the afk farmers actually make it easier for players to do what they are there to do. The afk farmers stand next to Winterberry nodes which happen to be where mobs auto-spawn. The mobs that the farmers are farming happen to get in the way of other players trying to harvest winterberries and then move on to the next harvesting node. I can’t think of anyone except the farmers who actively WANT to kill what the farmers are killing. And I can’t think of any heart or event that the farmers are preventing anyone from completing. I also can’t think of a time when I was in a BFF overflow map except when it first was released.

And while I am not as familiar with afk farming in other maps, I suspect it is the same.

The only thing that I know for a fact that is wrong about afk farming is that they are able to make progress in the game while not actively playing the game. This is simply cheating.

Mavis.1463:

Amaxia.5784:

• The game’s economy, such as it is, is built and balanced around players actually playing in order to acquire items, currencies and other rewards. Farming creates imbalances, driving prices for some items up, devaluing other items, sometimes forcing developers to adjust pricing on some items while removing others (or making them more difficult to obtain).

lol no it’s not

The economy is built around a hellish grind for mats, tempting players to buy gems and skip it entirely.

Kill, reward. Gather, reward. Complete event, reward. It’s called “playing the game”. If you find that “hellish”, you may not be playing the game correctly, or playing the right game for you.

People kittening about AFK farming probably have never tried to craft and Ascended armor or a Legendary.

I’ve crafted three legendaries: Incinerator, HOPE and The Minstrel, and I started Astralaria earlier this week. I’ve also crafted four complete sets of ascended armor and more ascended weapons than I can count. I’ve spent exactly 0 hours, 0 minutes and 0 seconds AFK farming. Everything I’ve made, I’ve made with materials I gathered/salvaged myself, or with materials I purchased after selling what I didn’t need.

And, as can be seen in my responses to this thread, I don’t agree with your assertion.

It’s the developers fault for encouraging farming by creating these disgusting grinds, which they promised they would not do

The developers want players to play, to stick around for a long time and keep playing. That’s not encouraging farming, it’s encouraging longevity. Refusing to acknowledge that doesn’t make it untrue, or wrong, any more than refusing to acknowledge gravity allows you to fly.

Faaris.8013:

Amaxia.5784:

Farming is a selfish, self-centered activity which negatively impacts everyone (including the farmers, eventually) and, realistically, isn’t suited for a multi-player game in which much of what occurs in the open world is dependent on the participation of all in any given vicinity.

Surely you don’t mean people who need Iron Ore to craft something and then go to the zones that have Iron Ore nodes to farm them, right? Or players who need Sharp Claws and know that Drakes drop them and then seek areas where Drakes live to farm them.

Farming is not inherently negative. I agree with the rest of your points, I just think you could specify which kind of farming a negative impact on the game has.

No, I wasn’t referring to gathering/harvesting/actively killing in pursuit of materials. I mean AFK/bot farming. Parking your character at a location specifically selected for comparative weakness of foes, putting your character on auto-pilot and generating rewards for not actively participating in content. That farming.

Djinn.9245:

Amaxia.5784:

• NPCs are a resource, both in the sense of what they might drop and in how they’re tied to different areas, events and quest givers. When a handful of players camp an area to farm those NPCs, they monopolize that resource, denying other players access to more than the loot, they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts.

First, I am not a defender of afk farming. Any examination of my posts will show that I am against it. However your facts are incorrect. In this specific case at least, the afk farmers actually make it easier for players to do what they are there to do. The afk farmers stand next to Winterberry nodes which happen to be where mobs auto-spawn. The mobs that the farmers are farming happen to get in the way of other players trying to harvest winterberries and then move on to the next harvesting node. I can’t think of anyone except the farmers who actively WANT to kill what the farmers are killing.

I want to kill what they’re killing. They offer a chance at karma consumables. I can turn that into more materials, or unlock skins, or acquire minis, or a number of other things. You appear to be more interested in getting to the next bush, and that’s fine. We don’t all share that approach to the game. I kill everything in my path, and frequently deviate from my path just to find more things to kill. There are a lot of players like me. There’s more to the game than gathering nodes. A lot more, and AFK farmers aren’t making it easier for me, they’re making it more difficult by monopolizing a resource.

This is true outside of BFF. It’s not simply a matter of one type of foe in one specific map being camped, or whether or not a particular resource node is more easily accessible. This is has been becoming a game-wide problem, and it’s reaching a head.

I used to use the centaur area in Lake Doric to get quick, easy completion of Noran’s heart. The centaurs spawned quickly and in sufficient numbers, and were relatively easy to defeat (in comparison to White Mantle mesmers or clerics, which i despise having to fight). I was forced to stop when the engineer farms took over the entire area. A lot of people did. It was impossible to make progress on Noran’s heart in that area when the farmers took over.

Prosperity Valley was a favorite camping spot for farmers for several months because three events with rapidly respawning enemies occurred there. Due to the large number farmers, those events would frequently fail, as their presence scaled enemies up and generated tougher foes. Event failure made no difference to the farmers, as they were only there for the loot bags, but it made all the different to the legitimate players who invested time and effort, only to fail to achieve the desired map tier when the sandstorm began.

And I can’t think of any heart or event that the farmers are preventing anyone from completing.

See above. Those are just a couple of examples of progress being inhibited by farmers on higher level maps. There are areas all over Tyria where farmers set up shop for easy kills, depriving lower level players of the opportunity to advance heart progress with easier fights and preventing others from getting drops. They’ve infiltrated Kessex Hills, where they don’t even fight anything, they just stand in clumps together, hovering over toxic seedling spawn points with the F key macroed. They’re in the Plains of Ashford, camping skales and bandits. I’ve found them everywhere, and I really haven’t been trying.

Also, metas in VB, AB and TD frequently end seconds after they begin because of a different kind of farming (hero points), but that’s a another thread in and of itself.

Amaxia.5784:

Djinn.9245:

Amaxia.5784:

• NPCs are a resource, both in the sense of what they might drop and in how they’re tied to different areas, events and quest givers. When a handful of players camp an area to farm those NPCs, they monopolize that resource, denying other players access to more than the loot, they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts.

First, I am not a defender of afk farming. Any examination of my posts will show that I am against it. However your facts are incorrect. In this specific case at least, the afk farmers actually make it easier for players to do what they are there to do. The afk farmers stand next to Winterberry nodes which happen to be where mobs auto-spawn. The mobs that the farmers are farming happen to get in the way of other players trying to harvest winterberries and then move on to the next harvesting node. I can’t think of anyone except the farmers who actively WANT to kill what the farmers are killing.

I want to kill what they’re killing. They offer a chance at karma consumables. I can turn that into more materials, or unlock skins, or acquire minis, or a number of other things. You appear to be more interested in getting to the next bush, and that’s fine. We don’t all share that approach to the game.

When I do BFF, I don’t only go bush to bush either. I harvest other nodes, kill mobs, etc. However in my experience the very few times I’ve seen a afker, they haven’t been taking up a significant number of the huge amount of mobs in that forest that it would cause me to complain about it. But I was specifically addressing your claim that “they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts”. I don’t know of a single case where that is actually true.

Amaxia.5784:

I used to use the centaur area in Lake Doric to get quick, easy completion of Noran’s heart. The centaurs spawned quickly and in sufficient numbers, and were relatively easy to defeat (in comparison to White Mantle mesmers or clerics, which i despise having to fight). I was forced to stop when the engineer farms took over the entire area. A lot of people did. It was impossible to make progress on Noran’s heart in that area when the farmers took over.

I have frequently done the Noran’s heart without touching a single centaur at the centaur camp. But if I preferred killing centaurs there to the other things you can do to complete the heart, I would tag centaurs before they were killed by the engis. After all, there are many engis there and yet the kills aren’t monopolized by only 1 player. So the other engis must also be getting tags in.

Amaxia.5784:

Prosperity Valley was a favorite camping spot for farmers for several months because three events with rapidly respawning enemies occurred there. Due to the large number farmers, those events would frequently fail, as their presence scaled enemies up and generated tougher foes. Event failure made no difference to the farmers, as they were only there for the loot bags, but it made all the different to the legitimate players who invested time and effort, only to fail to achieve the desired map tier when the sandstorm began.

I have never seen a farmer there. You say it “was a favorite camping spot for farmers for several months” – why only for several months? If it was a favorite, why would they stop?

Sarpan.9074:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Whenever people cheat the system to get rewards without effort, it affects everyone else, especially in a game (like GW2) that has a completely global economy. The more bots there are, the more coin flows into the economy, along with other forms of wealth. That affects how much gold there is for bots to buy the shinies they sell on the black market and the price we get for own own loot.

That’s the part that affects you or I, regardless of whether we are concerned about the act of AFK farming or of botting.

That’s all a bit esoteric for my level of involvement in this game, though I can see how those who are much more involved in the economy than I would be annoyed at the skewing by botters. However, for the way I play, it’s not that big of a thing.

So, no, it really doesn’t hurt my enjoyment, but again, breaking the rules is not cool and I report bots when I notice them, I just don’t get too bent out of shape about the whole thing.

Also, I don’t really get the benefit of gold farming in this came since there is an official way to buy gold for real money, unlike WoW back when I played it.

You do not need to be deep into the economy for it to have an effect on you. When I started it was ‘a gold for xyz? wow!!!’. Now it is ‘300 gold for a commander tag? hold my beer’. That is how much it has changed in a couple of years.

Well, I do not drink beer but you get the idea.

Djinn.9245:

When I do BFF, I don’t only go bush to bush either. I harvest other nodes, kill mobs, etc. However in my experience the very few times I’ve seen a afker, they haven’t been taking up a significant number of the huge amount of mobs in that forest that it would cause me to complain about it. But I was specifically addressing your claim that “they make it more difficult, or in some cases, all but impossible for others to complete events or hearts”. I don’t know of a single case where that is actually true.

I’ve already cited the Prosperity Valley crystal race. The Inquest in that event scale up rapidly in response to the number of nearby player characters. That event went pear-shaped with disturbing regularity when people were AFK farming there.

Those farmers were truly AFK, too, using auto-loot to keep themselves from being disconnected after being idle for too long, so they didn’t disappear when the sandstorm started. That, in turn, meant they scaled up the Haze event, the dust mite twister event and the skritt burglar event when it spawned in that area, all of which became more difficult to complete successfully for the people who were actively trying to participate, and failed more than a few times when I was there.

More? Okay.

Silverwastes – people parking themselves outside one of the camps, pet on aggro, heal on auto. When Mordrem attack the camps, they go down relatively rapidly, but with more than a couple of these AFKers in the area, the event scales up, to such a degree that forces have to be pulled from other camps in order to prevent failure. If it’s not an organized map, the camp falls, and when someone comes along to retake the camp later, they’re fighting scaled up Mordrem from the outset because the farmers haven’t moved (the game doesn’t care if they’re dead or alive, active or AFK, only that they’re present, scaling up NPCs accordingly. that’s why people yell about others lying around dead at Tequatl, or the wyvern bosses in Draconis Mons).

Plains of Ashford – skale, Separatists and ghosts are all popular farmer targets, and all necessary for heart completion in their respective areas.

Iron Marches – ghost farm in the southeast.

Google will find you many more examples of AFK farmers causing problems like event failures and difficulty completing hearts. If you haven’t experienced these types of situations, that’s fantastic. I envy your good fortune. And I’m not saying, suggesting or implying that it’s a game-wide end of the world cataclysm, only that these things do happen. I have experienced event failures, I have had to walk away from hearts in different maps on more than a couple of occasions and I know others have as well, both from personal exchanges with those affected and through further research before adding my two bits to this discussion.

I have frequently done the Noran’s heart without touching a single centaur at the centaur camp. But if I preferred killing centaurs there to the other things you can do to complete the heart, I would tag centaurs before they were killed by the engis. After all, there are many engis there and yet the kills aren’t monopolized by only 1 player. So the other engis must also be getting tags in.

It wasn’t a matter of tagging every NPC in sight for the engineers, it was simply tagging enough enemies to make it profitable. There were so many turrets that they could take down every centaur which spawned, clean out the entire basin, in seconds, and they weren’t all focus-firing on one enemy at a time, the turrets were spreading out their field of fire, taking down all of the standard enemies at once. Veterans lasted a little longer, long enough for non-engineers to get a tag in, maybe even deal a few K damage, but they also spawned less frequently, even with the large number of players in the area. I suspect the entire centaur camp was set up to bypass the scaling mechanics, so the basin area could be used by loners or characters with lower attack strength, so they could at least get a taste of what the “leather farm” was supposed to be like without having to join a zerg.

Amaxia.5784:

Prosperity Valley blah blah blah

I have never seen a farmer there. You say it “was a favorite camping spot for farmers for several months” – why only for several months? If it was a favorite, why would they stop?

The auto-loot mastery introduced with the expansion was preventing players from being auto-kicked due to excessive idling. That was fixed.