Guild Wars 2

You know, I would really love to see this coming back to Guild Wars.

In GW1 you basically got this mode once you completed the story line of the game. When you were in an outpost you could chose between hard-mode or normal mode.
Now, for some of us, including me, the pve in this game is pretty…. underwhelming. The bosses aren’t that super designed and not really hard to beat. Especially with no kill-timer on the boss you can just run full tank and still beat it.

Though Im sure there are people who are against this. They don’t want this to be ‘’super hard’’ and just relax playing the game. That’s why I would think making another mode, like hard-mode, would give the best for both sides.

‘’But why would you want the game to be tougher?’’

1. reason would be game play. Atm it’s just boring for me to play PvE in this game. The game just lacks content and dungeons are pretty much all seen in a few days.
2. I would love to see better rewards. I just think the rewards from dungeons or bosses are a bit poor. Give it a higher chance of dropping actual good item, like precursers. Like Arenanet said before, you wanted to lower the price of these weapons since they are way to high. I think this is a good option to lower them. (But ofc, don’t make it too high. Just make it like 1% drop chance of the boss or w/e, or give certain bosses a certain chance to drop a specific precurser which he’s holding himself.)
3. What I personally would like to see is bosses dealing more damage or spawning normal/veteran monsters (more often) and especially having a timer on them. Once you fail to kill the boss within that specific time, you fail and, depending on the boss, everyone in the room dies on a specific way different per boss.

but answer me this, how do you make enemies tougher for you while keeping it simple for others?

sorudo.9054:

but answer me this, how do you make enemies tougher for you while keeping it simple for others?

Because you can chose between hard mode and normal mode. Let normal mode be as what it is now and add a new section ‘’hard-mode’’. Just like you would chose between explorable and story mode of a dungeon.

I’d love a return of hard mode as well (for whenever I was in the mood), but there’s some problems why I don’t think we’ll see it any time soon.

Gw1 was instance based with no enemy respawns. Once you left a town, no other player could see/interact with you. Since gw2 is an open world you’d need to have a “double” of every map for every server; one for normal, one for hard. That would divide the community a bit, and while Anet is trying to get us out into the world more, I don’t think they want to divide the player base into an normal/hard map selection.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

I’d love a return of hard mode as well (for whenever I was in the mood), but there’s some problems why I don’t think we’ll see it any time soon.

Gw1 was instance based with no enemy respawns. Once you left a town, no other player could see/interact with you. Since gw2 is an open world you’d need to have a “double” of every map for every server; one for normal, one for hard. That would divide the community a bit, and while Anet is trying to get us out into the world more, I don’t think they want to divide the player base into an normal/hard map selection.

I don’t mean hard mode in open world, but only in instances like dungeons.

exactly the reason why i asked the question, you can’t just add a mode and expect everything to work the way you want it.
ill give you an example:
player 1 plays normal mode, it’s a player that simply plays for the enjoyment and relaxation.
player 2 plays hard mode, this player loves to go all out and go’s to great lengths for a challenge.

player 1 enters queensdale, kills some enemies and does some events.
player 2 enters queensdale and expects all the enemies to be more challenging.
player 2 attacks a centaur and it takes a bit before it’s dead, player 1 helps player 2.

now how do you solve this situation?
you can give player 2 a higher reward when the centaur is dead but that leaves the mode open for exploits, you can also lower the reward but that makes the mode useless and HM players become quite disrespectful to NM players.
you can also make the enemy harder the moment player 2 attacks the enemy but that makes player 1 quite mad and simply walks away, separating the player base.
the same is with instances, if you make 1 HM and 1 NM instance it separates the player base even more, especially when you look at the mentality of a group of GW1 players (allot of HM-only players, even dishing the NM players just because they play their own way)

and i have 3 other scenarios that shows why it’s not so simple, i suggest (and it’s not meant as an offense) to think the mode trough, find a solution to make this mode possible without running in the bigger problems.

Like I said… Only in instances like dungeons
Queensdale is open world, not an instance.

That would allow elitism non-casual play to creep in more than it already has.

“LFM CoF HM Gear Check Required”

Oh no, LFM would not be an option.
You would need TS3, good coordination to complete it. Gear check isn’t the same as skill.

I’m not arguing with you. I think it would be cool. Just sayin’.

BlackDevil.9268:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

I’d love a return of hard mode as well (for whenever I was in the mood), but there’s some problems why I don’t think we’ll see it any time soon.

Gw1 was instance based with no enemy respawns. Once you left a town, no other player could see/interact with you. Since gw2 is an open world you’d need to have a “double” of every map for every server; one for normal, one for hard. That would divide the community a bit, and while Anet is trying to get us out into the world more, I don’t think they want to divide the player base into an normal/hard map selection.

I don’t mean hard mode in open world, but only in instances like dungeons.

Ah that could be doable, but I think I see worse problems here. If you want a dungeon to be harder (ie longer) you can just kill the mobs instead of skipping ~75%+ of them. As it stands, the majority of mobs in dungeons can just be skipped, and people skip them because they aren’t worth the effort. The time/reward system isn’t set up very well. If dungeons, from the beginning, were designed to force you to kill every enemy to proceed to the next area I think people would have complained so hard that they weren’t worth the time because there were no rewards.

Most things in this (and most other) games boil down to a time/reward ratio. Why did people exploit the Queen’s Gauntlet, because it gave them great rewards. The same goes to why most people champ farm, do speed dungeon runs, zerg whatever the LS is, flip on the tp? Because those are the best way to make money. I’m sure some do it for fun, but usually people only do what is either easy, gives a good reward (for the time invested), or what they find fun. If a “hard” mode for the dungeons existed I can only see it being more hp and damage, the same as fractals. And unless they give better rewards people won’t bother doing it, and if they give too good of a reward people will farm it. The balance is very hard to achieve (look how many people complained that the labyrinth was empty after a week or so, people farmed their achievements and went to do something that was more profitable).

Personally I hate dungeons (mostly the skipping/stacking), but would at least try a harder mode of them. But right now all I can say if you want something like that, you’ll have to be happy with high level fractals for the time being.

Wallace MacBix.2089:

BlackDevil.9268:

Wallace MacBix.2089:

I’d love a return of hard mode as well (for whenever I was in the mood), but there’s some problems why I don’t think we’ll see it any time soon.

Gw1 was instance based with no enemy respawns. Once you left a town, no other player could see/interact with you. Since gw2 is an open world you’d need to have a “double” of every map for every server; one for normal, one for hard. That would divide the community a bit, and while Anet is trying to get us out into the world more, I don’t think they want to divide the player base into an normal/hard map selection.

I don’t mean hard mode in open world, but only in instances like dungeons.

Ah that could be doable, but I think I see worse problems here. If you want a dungeon to be harder (ie longer) you can just kill the mobs instead of skipping ~75%+ of them. As it stands, the majority of mobs in dungeons can just be skipped, and people skip them because they aren’t worth the effort. The time/reward system isn’t set up very well. If dungeons, from the beginning, were designed to force you to kill every enemy to proceed to the next area I think people would have complained so hard that they weren’t worth the time because there were no rewards.

Most things in this (and most other) games boil down to a time/reward ratio. Why did people exploit the Queen’s Gauntlet, because it gave them great rewards. The same goes to why most people champ farm, do speed dungeon runs, zerg whatever the LS is, flip on the tp? Because those are the best way to make money. I’m sure some do it for fun, but usually people only do what is either easy, gives a good reward (for the time invested), or what they find fun. If a “hard” mode for the dungeons existed I can only see it being more hp and damage, the same as fractals. And unless they give better rewards people won’t bother doing it, and if they give too good of a reward people will farm it. The balance is very hard to achieve (look how many people complained that the labyrinth was empty after a week or so, people farmed their achievements and went to do something that was more profitable).

Personally I hate dungeons (mostly the skipping/stacking), but would at least try a harder mode of them. But right now all I can say if you want something like that, you’ll have to be happy with high level fractals for the time being.

Killing the monsters instead of skipping them doesn’t make my dungeon harder. Actually the opposite usually, running is harder than killing them.

Colin stated in an interview on PAX that there will be no hard-mode in dungeons. Most likely you will see a much harder path like the aether path in TA.

They already have a hard mode. Just equip your toon with lvl 50 greens and run through any high lvl zone. Problem solved.

You cannot make hard mode when the mobs are scaled so high as they already does in normal mode. Hard mode would certainly be all one hit kill.

There was some data mining a while back which unearthed possible “dungeon gambits”, similar to the gambits in the Queen’s Gauntlet. (One gambit was “No party member can die”, suggesting that if one guy dies, the entire party dies as well.) That could effectively give us Hard Mode for dungeons without needing to create new instances or modes.

I also like the idea of creating SEPARATE elite dungeon paths as a way of expanding dungeon content. For example, they could reinstate the old F/U path of TA (essentially bringing the old dungeon back), and then allow people to access the Aetherblade path by just picking a dialogue option from the NPC outside (“We are here in response to Lionguard Turma’s call for help.”)

This is not GW1. It’s GW2. There will be no HM.

CHIPS.6018:

You cannot make hard mode when the mobs are scaled so high as they already does in normal mode. Hard mode would certainly be all one hit kill.

I would rather define all pve in this game as ‘’easy mode’’. Have yet to face a challenge in pve. Last time that was when the game just released and we tried to beat lupicus for the first time with not even full exotics sets.

Shpongle.6025:

This is not GW1. It’s GW2. There will be no HM.

That’s not an argument. Just because something isn’t in game doesn’t mean it can’t be added.

ArchAngelGabriel.4625:

They already have a hard mode. Just equip your toon with lvl 50 greens and run through any high lvl zone. Problem solved.

I guess I just take that as a joke.

Hard Mode was not in the original GW1 release. It came with an update I think even after campaign 3 (Nightfall). There’s plenty of time to introduce this.

Stop comparing the grown GW1 with the only one year old GW2. There is – hopefully – plenty to come.

ProtoGunner.4953:

Hard Mode was not in the original GW1 release. It came with an update I think even after campaign 3 (Nightfall). There’s plenty of time to introduce this.

Stop comparing the grown GW1 with the only one year old GW2. There is – hopefully – plenty to come.

Noticed it before they update came just hovered my mouse over the achievement tab in GW1, but yeah HM shouldn’t be added to GW2 for a reason. It would just through casual players out in the sea and the players won’t have the time to make any progress in the game.

I have the time, but I don’t wanna spend the majority of my time into this game.
It is better for ANet to focus on real content rather than upscale all the dungeons.

eyelogix.1654:

ProtoGunner.4953:

Hard Mode was not in the original GW1 release. It came with an update I think even after campaign 3 (Nightfall). There’s plenty of time to introduce this.

Stop comparing the grown GW1 with the only one year old GW2. There is – hopefully – plenty to come.

Noticed it before they update came just hovered my mouse over the achievement tab in GW1, but yeah HM shouldn’t be added to GW2 for a reason. It would just through casual players out in the sea and the players won’t have the time to make any progress in the game.

I have the time, but I don’t wanna spend the majority of my time into this game.
It is better for ANet to focus on real content rather than upscale all the dungeons.

That’s the problem, we’re 1 year into the game and we only got temporary stuff.
And why would casuals be driven away? They can easily do normal mode and still play the game as it is now.

First question : Do you want to make another Yogg-Saron with this timer? Killing everyone after certain time? Meh idea. If you want to continue with the timer, just let boss Enrage after stated period of time, dealing more damage, attacking faster…
But for real, timers and zerk armor rushing isn’t the way hardmode should be. If you take a look at my post history
( https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Story-of-the-Tower-2-0-Idea/first#post3139187)
, I’ve made entire possible boss encounter suggestions back in days for Nightmare Tower which may be considered pretty hard. No more one-hit KO’s, doubling amount of death-sentence red circles one the ground, less dodging everything, rather saving your dodge for specific attacks. We shouldn’t be able to evade everything, make us take a hit or two and best of, make bosses more tactical. Interrupting, more fight mechanics to just make it more fun. They don’t have to be über-one-hit KO to be enjoyable and hard. More understanding the encounter, preparing for fight. That’s what would be a perfect game mode. Mode with actual fight mechanics

Rym.1469:

No more one-hit KO’s, doubling amount of death-sentence red circles one the ground, less dodging everything, rather saving your dodge for specific attacks. We shouldn’t be able to evade everything, make us take a hit or two and best of, make bosses more tactical. Interrupting, more fight mechanics to just make it more fun. They don’t have to be über-one-hit KO to be enjoyable and hard. More understanding the encounter, preparing for fight. That’s what would be a perfect game mode. Mode with actual fight mechanics

I’m up for more complex mechanics and CC being useful. I completely disagree, however, on pretty much everything else.

The active combat system tries to encourage players to read animations and react to them, mitigating any damage source before it connects, over passive tanking and healing, which requires way less player skill involved.
If you design enemies to land unavoidable damage, you might actually be promoting (even forcing) the use of defensive stats and/or healing specs, which IMHO should work only as mistake covering. If you remove one-shots (or really huge spikes, kind of 10k-15k on 3k armor), you even open the door for defensive setups to succeed by playing the game in a way completely opposite to the intended one
I don’t like the current state of the game at all; I think enemies die way too fast using full offensive setups. The way these setup survive when they are forced to longer fights (take a look at some solo lupicus video), however, is IMHO the perfect example of how defense is meant to be played, and should be absolutely encouraged in any kind of hard mode (which is not for everyone anymore and should allow next to zero mistakes).

The fights you designed have some interesting points, I won’t deny that, but right now I can see a team of 5 shoutheal + soldier rune braindead specs being easily succesful.

Without investing in healing power at all, this group can easily achieve a 1.5k healing per second. Looking at your idea of big hit (about 3000 base+small % of target’s hp damage on 2600 armor target with no protection), seems like they could outheal the whole first bossight without even touching the evade key.
With a single warrior chosing Fear Me over, lets say, On My Mark, you could probably displace the boss to a safe, clean of toxin, area and then stack on melee for the whole fight.
Even with that, if a fear happens for some reason, any of your shouts remove acondition, so you can get rid off it in AoE once every about 1.5 seconds.

The second encounter might be a little trickier. You can hardly avoid any disarm or impale. Disarm only affects your ability to deal damage, so without enrage timers, it’s not really something to worry about.
Impale, on the other hand, is %HP based heavy unavoidable (as long as evading/blocking an attack doesn’t end stealth, which is how it actually works) damage and you have a lot of HP, so it might be dangerous. Hopefully, since there is no condition to deal with here, you can freely use part of your over 20k AoE healing burst every 20 seconds to cover your 10k healing surge.
The rest of the fight looks like you could, now again, move the boss to a safe location and melee it to death. Mist form won’t be triggered and focused shot won’t deal AoE damage (since it’s probably a projectile, a focused player could probably back off a little and let a teamate take some damage for him). Split shot would probably do laughable damage if it hits 5 targets and most of your healing is AoE.

For any of those encounters, if safe zones change over time, you just need some kind of CC in the alternative weapon set (which you haven’t needed for anything else).
If areas are small, you’re probably fine just with 5 Rifle Buts; if they are larger, it woud need a little more work. 4 warriors with, lets say, mace/shield, which are great offsets to counter marked shots or other dangerous telegraphed skill without evading at all (if an offhand sword with your main axe is not enough), and the last one with rifle and kick, should be more than enough.

Of course, you still have 2 chambers to design and this setup could be hard countered at some point, but up to now, 5 braindead specs not using active defenses at all seem enough to beat the dungeon with little comunication (in order to avoid shout overlaping and call CCs) and with still quite enough room for survivability improvement (I haven’t talked about stats at all because even zeker seems to be fine, neither about the remaining 40 trait points nor a possible AoE combat res every 48 seconds).