Guild Wars 2

How the heck does my character know that the name of the elder dragon is Mordremoth?? I literally just told Marjory what his name is….. How did my character discover this? How does ANYONE in Tyria know his name? Did it just come to me? UGHHHHHHH!!!!! COME ON ANET! DO THIS A LITTLE BETTER! LETS DISCOVER HIS NAME IN SOME ANCIENT TOME OR SOMETHING!

I would assume that the peoples of Tyria would learn the names of GIANT MAGIC EATING MONSTERS THAT DESTROY THEIR WORLD. Just a thought.

People speculated his name for ages, even before living story, one of the bosses in the asura dungeon had a skill named after him.

Your character is part of an organized army dedicated to destroying the elder dragons… Why would he not know their names when you have all the knowledge of the priory and whispers to draw on>?

The point I’m making is that MY character said the name first, when MY character, while out of game knew the name, in game had no way of knowing, other NPC’s might’ve been researching the name of this dragon, but then one of those all knowing NPC’s should’ve revealed the name, gosh.

Shemsu.8721:

Your character is part of an organized army dedicated to destroying the elder dragons… Why would he not know their names when you have all the knowledge of the priory and whispers to draw on>?

^This^

Tyrians have been data-mining and reading reddit obviously. /endsarcasm

What OP meant was how did our character just happen to come across the name. People speculated on internet, not in-game. There was zero word on his name within the game. Also this dragon was supposed to be unknown to common populace, given there are zero mentions. OP is talking from in-character perspective.

Whatever I guess, I’ve given up trying to find any logic in GW2. Gonna finish this instance and see you guys after 2 weeks when we find out its been Abaddon all along and the whole LS has been leading into the next season of The Walking Dead where Abby comes back as zombie.

Thanks phaneo, I am talking from an in game perspective, but apparently people are ok with this blatant break of the 4th wall, where basically, it’s ok to take what players know outside of the game and then bring it into the in game world and make that knowledge fact, when our characters shouldn’t technically know it yet…..

But hey, Scarlet defaced GW2 website last year so I guess it IS ok.

webtoehobbit.4201:

The point I’m making is that MY character said the name first, when MY character, while out of game knew the name, in game had no way of knowing, other NPC’s might’ve been researching the name of this dragon, but then one of those all knowing NPC’s should’ve revealed the name, gosh.

The Priory told your character while you were in the loo… you just missed that dialog.

Knowing his name in the game doesn’t make any sense at all. Because when the game begins, the only information about the dragons we have comes ancient dwarven texts and jotun stalea (all information is dated from the dragons previous cycle of awakening over 11,000 years ago).
These dragon recods talk about 6 dragons. And not all are mentioned by name ( Primordus, Jormag, Zhaitan, Kralkatorrik and the sea dragon). There is no mention of mordremoth in these records.

(The Inquest had been conducting experiments structured around six Elder Dragons so may have a bit of prior knowledge. But last time they didn’t exactly invite us over to talk about dragons).

So from my understanding, our characters didn’t know the existance of mordremoth in the previous patch and went to ‘oh hey, here is our old friend Mordremoth. How are you doing? Care for a drink?’

It appears the names of the elder dragons are so well known in kryta that even a web toed hobbit would know. ^^

During the dream when Bobby died but really didn’t a Raven in the background croaked “mooordreemoth”. But you don’t know you had the dream till the word in the dream manifests itself by mysterious means and you think “ooo, neat dragon name”.

Also, bleeding magic. Ley lines. Scarlet. It’s all pretty simple.

The dragon’s name appears in CoE. It is not unknown to your character, who at this point is assumed to be the commander of the force that took down Zhaitan. There is no reason for your character to not know the new dragon’s name.

Shemsu.8721:

Your character is part of an organized army dedicated to destroying the elder dragons… Why would he not know their names when you have all the knowledge of the priory and whispers to draw on>?

I think this pretty much sums up how you know the name in game. You don’t watch your go to the bathroom or sleep so by the same logic does this not happen?

Implied events like this are inherent in every work of fiction ever created.

displacedTitan.6897:

Shemsu.8721:

Your character is part of an organized army dedicated to destroying the elder dragons… Why would he not know their names when you have all the knowledge of the priory and whispers to draw on>?

I think this pretty much sums up how you know the name in game. You don’t watch your go to the bathroom or sleep so by the same logic does this not happen?

Implied events like this are inherent in every work of fiction ever created.

Haaa haa haa. Yes, because “every work of fiction” featuring a mystery antagonist reveals universal knowledge of who it is on a blank page turn between chapters. Oh, certainly so.

Morfremoths name was never mentioned before
For all people in Tyria the ED has just awoken. Nobody knew it would be a new dragon. Just that something has roared.

Players knew the name from looking at the attack names from the CoE jungle path, however it was only later confirmed by Colin in an interview.

The only people who have actually shown any knowledge of all dragons are indeed the inquest in CoE, as they gathered minions from all six elder dragons.

However to the rest of Tyria this is a new danger and they actually have no knowledge about it.

Majory and kasmeer calling the dragon by name is subsequently not fitting.

I can only asume the writers missed a step here

Shinzan.2908:

People speculated his name for ages, even before living story, one of the bosses in the asura dungeon had a skill named after him.

Yeah but our character wouldn’t know that. To be fair the name Mordremoth had the name dropped in Episode 1, I just can’t figure out how this became common knowledge. There wasn’t any dialog having to do with looking through old Dwarven archives or some such.

It is a little lazy but eh, no big deal.

Thanks Jaken too, yes, when doing the first story instance of Season 2 I had this thought, did I miss an instance? I mean this name could’ve been revealed through us reading more into Ogdens book in Scarlets room, which might’ve had a name drop in there, or something, maybe reading a research note of Scarlet, since it’s assumed she had a more intimate knowledge of the dragons existence.

From CoE
Teeth of Mordremoth – A series of spiked rocks launched in a cone in front of him. Alpha uses this on the first and third paths

OoW/Priory have knowledge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar_Trueclaw
Jotun, mursaat, forgotten, seer, dwarf. Five against six. It seems so unfair. And, yet…
One must count the uncounted. And name the unnamed.
Shh, I can’t talk long. There are eyes and ears everywhere in this place. Infiltrating the Priory has been my hardest assignment to date.
Why’s it so difficult?
I have to sound smart all the time. Though, I’m learning a lot. I found out that there were five sentient races that fought the Elder Dragons the first time around… and survived to tell about it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mordremoth

some evidence for you.

How far shall we take this?

Since when did your character learn how to wield a [insert weapon]

I will continue this discussion in the Lore portion of the boards, cause the name of an attack doesn’t mean we know the name of the beast, unless they scream the name of the attack out as it happens, just like when I attack people with my axes, they all have different names but people don’t know what my attack names are in game, they just see me swinging an axe. The Inquest probably know about the name of the Dragon but last I checked we never sat down and discussed such things with them…. But like I said, I will continue to discuss this on the Lore boards because all I’m going to get here is, “This game is the best, nothing is wrong with it.”

Vol.7601:

How far shall we take this?

Since when did your character learn how to wield a [insert weapon]

Maybe she was born with it….

You would think that our characters have no way of seeing health bars, attack names and AoE circles. Therefore, no name for the recently awoken threat.

You would think that finding out the name of one of the BIGGEST enemies the WHOLE WORLD has would be kind of a big deal. Considering that at some point in GW1, learning the name of the enemy of the Great Dwarf was a major plot point.

I think there was a leap in logic here, but ANet makes them from time to time.

Vol.7601:

How far shall we take this?

Since when did your character learn how to wield a [insert weapon]

A terrible example. Your biography choices at the start state that you are trying to become [your class] so you have basic knowledge of weapon handling for your class, and that’s also why you don’t start with all weapon skills unlocked but instead “learn” them.

Maybe the sheer magical force of the dragon planted the name “Mordremoth” in all the characters’ heads when it woke up. Or maybe the writers just screwed up.

Maybe it’s supposed to give the impression that the player character chose the name for the new dragon themselves at that point. If so, it isn’t very clear, and one would have to view Subject Alpha’s combat log as non-canon.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

From CoE
Teeth of Mordremoth – A series of spiked rocks launched in a cone in front of him. Alpha uses this on the first and third paths

some evidence for you.

So does Alpha scream the name of his attacks so our character can record it in his combat log ?

It caught me off guard as well, but…

If nobody knows the name, then one would have been invented for it. Mordremoth sounds like a word that may have meaning in an older language. “kitteny Weed Beast”, maybe. So, the name was assigned to the dragon until such time as a more historical name can be found.

The use of the name for an attack doesn’t matter, as the combat logs we get are not part of the in game lore.

Palador.2170:

It caught me off guard as well, but…

If nobody knows the name, then one would have been invented for it.

I’m now seriously considering that Anet will introduce the DSD as “Bubbles”…

RedStar.4218:

Palador.2170:

It caught me off guard as well, but…

If nobody knows the name, then one would have been invented for it.

I’m now seriously considering that Anet will introduce the DSD as “Bubbles”…

If, by that point, we’ve killed two or three of them? Yeah, I could see that being declared the “official Pact designation”.

Now that you mention it, it did sound strange when the name was mentioned…now I know why.

Just a quick side thought. How did the Dragons name get `known` anyway? Did the Dwarves and Jotan sit down with Zhaitan in some ancient time and have a conversation where the Dragons all introduced themselves?

Admittedly Glint might have let us know of the names of the other dragons, but if she did that, then maybe she named all the other dragons including Mordremoth.

What I’m getting at, is that chances are, Mordremoth doesn’t necessarily think of himself as `Mordremoth`, it could just be the name that the Durmond Priory came up with to describe the dragon, it could also be simply that your character decided to call it Mordremoth, and that name will stick.

Another ugly oversight. This is a previously unknown elder dragon, and our characters somehow know its name off the top of their head?
This isn’t like Zhaitan, Jormag, Kralk, and Primordus, who have been around since before the game “started”, and as such we can assume our characters learned their names while “growing up” or w.e. This is new and current, we need our character to actually come across the information in a way that makes sense.
Same thing as our “vacation” from the Pact. That should have been established at the time it happened, not thrown in a year later as an “oh btw”.

RedStar.4218:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

From CoE
Teeth of Mordremoth – A series of spiked rocks launched in a cone in front of him. Alpha uses this on the first and third paths

some evidence for you.

So does Alpha scream the name of his attacks so our character can record it in his combat log ?

No but
1) SUBJECT alpha was an inquest test subject within the crucible of eternity, which is now controlled by the pact. you don’t think the inquest took any notes during their extensive experimentation, or that the pact decided that a facility working to create a controllable dragon champion wasn’t worth looking through their archives. As second in command of the pact I’m sure you would be informed of any other potential new (main) dangers/targets to the army. Not to mention that at least both the priory and the OoW knew there were 6 dragons before the crucible of eternity (you can read that in my earlier reply).
2) Mordremoth may only be the name that the pact has give (or possibly the name used in inquest sources once the crucible came under completely pact control.) the jungle dragon after, kind of like how tequatl’s name comes from the hylek language not necessarily what its real name is but what it is known as by its enemies.
3) We also discovered Scarlett’s journal which details her going mad (in game we only read what a page worth of dialogue in a journal surely there was more information inside) and talking about how she is fighting an outside influence, I wouldn’t be surprised if the name was mentioned in there.
4) The Pale tree may have gained some of scarlett’s memories through the dream of dreams. (“Pale Tree holds the sylvari’s collected knowledge and emotion”)

Kaz.5430:

Just a quick side thought. How did the Dragons name get `known` anyway? Did the Dwarves and Jotan sit down with Zhaitan in some ancient time and have a conversation where the Dragons all introduced themselves?

Admittedly Glint might have let us know of the names of the other dragons, but if she did that, then maybe she named all the other dragons including Mordremoth.

What I’m getting at, is that chances are, Mordremoth doesn’t necessarily think of himself as `Mordremoth`, it could just be the name that the Durmond Priory came up with to describe the dragon, it could also be simply that your character decided to call it Mordremoth, and that name will stick.

This is likely.

Glint aside, aren’t the dragons more like elemental forces rather than thinking creatures? They are unlikely then to have names for themselves. Any names is what the people of Tyria have made up for them. These names would be well known to the main people who are fighting dragons and as Commander it would be something your character would know.

Even if dragons have personal names, are you likely to ever know it. Did someone ever speak to Zhaitan to learn it? Does his undead know? Would they tell you if they did? Again, it’s much more likely Zhaitan was a name chosen by people rather than its personal name.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

No but
1) SUBJECT alpha was an inquest test subject within the crucible of eternity, which is now controlled by the pact. you don’t think the inquest took any notes during their extensive experimentation, or that the pact decided that a facility working to create a controllable dragon champion wasn’t worth looking through their archives. As second in command of the pact I’m sure you would be informed of any other potential new (main) dangers/targets to the army. Not to mention that at least both the priory and the OoW knew there were 6 dragons before the crucible of eternity (you can read that in my earlier reply).
2) Mordremoth may only be the name that the pact has give (or possibly the name used in inquest sources once the crucible came under completely pact control.) the jungle dragon after, kind of like how tequatl’s name comes from the hylek language not necessarily what its real name is but what it is known as by its enemies.
3) We also discovered Scarlett’s journal which details her going mad (in game we only read what a page worth of dialogue in a journal surely there was more information inside) and talking about how she is fighting an outside influence, I wouldn’t be surprised if the name was mentioned in there.
4) The Pale tree may have gained some of scarlett’s memories through the dream of dreams. (“Pale Tree holds the sylvari’s collected knowledge and emotion”)

So you’re saying that because our character is part of the Pact, we know every single thing in the world ? Like, in the future if we get elona, it’d be totally obvious for our character to be up to date with what’s happening there because hey, the OoW is over there.

The thing is we never see this name (and don’t even bring combat logs in this…) and suddenly, our character utters this and everyone’s perfectly fine with it, like it’s a completely known fact.

The problem isn’t “why does the PC know the real name ?” or “is this the real name ?” it’s “hey new dragon. Well I’m naming it Mordremoth and everyone’s instantly knows what I’m talking about”.

Astral Projections.7320:

Even if dragons have personal names, are you likely to ever know it. Did someone ever speak to Zhaitan to learn it? Does his undead know? Would they tell you if they did? Again, it’s much more likely Zhaitan was a name chosen by people rather than its personal name.

Yes his undead knows his name.
“Zhaitan will devour you, just as he devoured our gods.”

Shemsu.8721:

Your character is part of an organized army dedicated to destroying the elder dragons… Why would he not know their names when you have all the knowledge of the priory and whispers to draw on>?

Because up till now not a single creature in Tyria said the word Mordremoth. We had no reason to believe the Priory, Order of Whispers, Vigil or the Pact knew the name Mordremoth. The only mention of Mordremoth as far as I can recall was in the combat log from Crucible of Eternity. None of the Inquest mention it, a very attentive player observed the tool tip in the combat log and assumed it was an unknown Elder Dragon. That’s actually important because it established in many player’s minds that the identity (or existence) of a sixth Elder Dragon was actually a mystery in Tyria and discovering/unveiling one would be a big deal. We kinda just skip that.

You can’t learn what no-one knows. Until now, I didn’t think anyone in Tyria knew the word Mordremoth.

Ronin.7381:

Vol.7601:

How far shall we take this?

Since when did your character learn how to wield a [insert weapon]

Maybe she was born with it….

Maybe it’s Maybelline?

RedStar.4218:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

No but
1) SUBJECT alpha was an inquest test subject within the crucible of eternity, which is now controlled by the pact. you don’t think the inquest took any notes during their extensive experimentation, or that the pact decided that a facility working to create a controllable dragon champion wasn’t worth looking through their archives. As second in command of the pact I’m sure you would be informed of any other potential new (main) dangers/targets to the army. Not to mention that at least both the priory and the OoW knew there were 6 dragons before the crucible of eternity (you can read that in my earlier reply).
2) Mordremoth may only be the name that the pact has give (or possibly the name used in inquest sources once the crucible came under completely pact control.) the jungle dragon after, kind of like how tequatl’s name comes from the hylek language not necessarily what its real name is but what it is known as by its enemies.
3) We also discovered Scarlett’s journal which details her going mad (in game we only read what a page worth of dialogue in a journal surely there was more information inside) and talking about how she is fighting an outside influence, I wouldn’t be surprised if the name was mentioned in there.
4) The Pale tree may have gained some of scarlett’s memories through the dream of dreams. (“Pale Tree holds the sylvari’s collected knowledge and emotion”)

So you’re saying that because our character is part of the Pact, we know every single thing in the world ? Like, in the future if we get elona, it’d be totally obvious for our character to be up to date with what’s happening there because hey, the OoW is over there.

The thing is we never see this name (and don’t even bring combat logs in this…) and suddenly, our character utters this and everyone’s perfectly fine with it, like it’s a completely known fact.

The problem isn’t “why does the PC know the real name ?” or “is this the real name ?” it’s “hey new dragon. Well I’m naming it Mordremoth and everyone’s instantly knows what I’m talking about”.

Astral Projections.7320:

Even if dragons have personal names, are you likely to ever know it. Did someone ever speak to Zhaitan to learn it? Does his undead know? Would they tell you if they did? Again, it’s much more likely Zhaitan was a name chosen by people rather than its personal name.

Yes his undead knows his name.
“Zhaitan will devour you, just as he devoured our gods.”

Still isn’t proof positive. It could be the name they called him while alive and the only name they still know. It’s also may be a title, rather than an actual name. Zhaitan is very similar to Shaitan, a word which means devil.

RedStar.4218:

Infamous Darkness.3284:

No but
1) SUBJECT alpha was an inquest test subject within the crucible of eternity, which is now controlled by the pact. you don’t think the inquest took any notes during their extensive experimentation, or that the pact decided that a facility working to create a controllable dragon champion wasn’t worth looking through their archives. As second in command of the pact I’m sure you would be informed of any other potential new (main) dangers/targets to the army. Not to mention that at least both the priory and the OoW knew there were 6 dragons before the crucible of eternity (you can read that in my earlier reply).
2) Mordremoth may only be the name that the pact has give (or possibly the name used in inquest sources once the crucible came under completely pact control.) the jungle dragon after, kind of like how tequatl’s name comes from the hylek language not necessarily what its real name is but what it is known as by its enemies.
3) We also discovered Scarlett’s journal which details her going mad (in game we only read what a page worth of dialogue in a journal surely there was more information inside) and talking about how she is fighting an outside influence, I wouldn’t be surprised if the name was mentioned in there.
4) The Pale tree may have gained some of scarlett’s memories through the dream of dreams. (“Pale Tree holds the sylvari’s collected knowledge and emotion”)

So you’re saying that because our character is part of the Pact, we know every single thing in the world ?

NO I’m saying as the second in command of an organization that its only job is to destroy dragons would probably be among the first to know of a new one appearing, and by extension its name.

The thing is we never see this name (and don’t even bring combat logs in this…) and suddenly, our character utters this and everyone’s perfectly fine with it, like it’s a completely known fact.

Its not the fact of combat logs, it is that we captured an inquest facility studying how to create controllable dragon champions, it definitely wasn’t an accident that subject alpha was imbued with power from mordremoth, so you think amoung all their research they took no notes or named this particular variety of elder dragon energy/power which they imbued in their creation? Or you think this same facility specifically designed for making dragon champions the pact (an organization created to fight dragons and their minions/champions) would have not even enough interest in to look through their files…?

The problem isn’t “why does the PC know the real name ?” or “is this the real name ?” it’s “hey new dragon. Well I’m naming it Mordremoth and everyone’s instantly knows what I’m talking about”.

I already mentioned this with tequatl the dragons are named by us or taken as names they have been known as from the past that we already knew. Did you notice as we move through Orr most of Zhaitan’s minions only call it “the dragon” rather than Zhaitan, it is only as we get further into Orr that we see Zhaitian’s minions begin to refer to it as Zhaitan in front of us. I can only think of two situations where this happens, when taking the cathedral of eternal radiance, and when fighting the soverign eye of zhaitan in the artesian waters (both times being said by former humans in a way to weaken moral, through reuniting with a mentor, or feelings of abandonment/the gods being eaten)

Astral Projections.7320:

Even if dragons have personal names, are you likely to ever know it. Did someone ever speak to Zhaitan to learn it? Does his undead know? Would they tell you if they did? Again, it’s much more likely Zhaitan was a name chosen by people rather than its personal name.

Yes his undead knows his name.
“Zhaitan will devour you, just as he devoured our gods.”

responses in bold