Guild Wars 2

So… I found the only NPC I could named “Hal” in the Ember Bay region, but he is rude and doesn’t want apples. >:(

Anyone else been able to complete the achievment, “Hungry Hal”?

i gave him 1 of the apples that when you eat it, it sets you on fire. instead of eating it, i picked it from the south and ran it all the way up to him.. only to find out i need to feed him 50 to complete achievement :P

edit: bunch of trees in the south. made this to help those out https://youtu.be/iqJDEMBU5R4

How is this meant to work? You’re supposed to feed him 50 apples, but the nearest apples are a good distance away, and take at least a minute or two of hopping around to get back and forth. Obviously they can’t intend that players should have to run all the way back and forth 50 times because that would be a monstrous and pointless grind. If that were the intended way to do it, they would have set a more reasonable limit like five or ten, tops. So what’s the trick to it? What’s the correct method that would make 50 repetitions plausible?

It’s a shame you just missed the exploit…(I did too).

Has it been fixed already?

Monstrous and pointless grind kinda IS the intended method though…

I really hate this achievement. Not only does it take 2-3 minutes per apple, running back and forth over and over again, but there’s not even enough apple trees to do it in one day, so you have to come back the next day, and the next. So so sooooooo grindy. I don’t want to feed the lazy bumb, I want to push him off the cliff!

Oh, that would be cool! Make an alternate achievement, where if you press f while you don’t have an apple, you get the chance to send him to the grave. I mean seriously man, I’ve got a couple gliders in my backpack, take one and go get your own kitten apple, I’ve got dragons to fight.

It takes about two hours to do. Not exactly fun but you’ll eventually “zone out” after a dozen or so when it becomes automated.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

I really hate this achievement. Not only does it take 2-3 minutes per apple, running back and forth over and over again, but there’s not even enough apple trees to do it in one day, so you have to come back the next day, and the next. So so sooooooo grindy. I don’t want to feed the lazy bumb, I want to push him off the cliff?

Oh, that would be cool! Make an alternate achievement, where if you press f while you don’t have an apple, you get the chance to send him to the grave. I mean seriously man, I’ve got a couple gliders in my backpack, take one and go get your own apple your lazy bumb!

You can hop to another map instance. It takes about 4 instances to complete it. It may also work by swapping to another character but I didn’t do it that way.

It’s a reference to Tybalt’s ‘apple a day’. The map has daily hearts and they basically push you to bring him an apple a day for the achievement. I’m sure glad I could finish it before this fix because achievements like that are not fun at all. Just a test to see how far you can push players to do a repetitive task if you ask me.

Ayrilana.1396:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

I really hate this achievement. Not only does it take 2-3 minutes per apple, running back and forth over and over again, but there’s not even enough apple trees to do it in one day, so you have to come back the next day, and the next. So so sooooooo grindy. I don’t want to feed the lazy bumb, I want to push him off the cliff?

Oh, that would be cool! Make an alternate achievement, where if you press f while you don’t have an apple, you get the chance to send him to the grave. I mean seriously man, I’ve got a couple gliders in my backpack, take one and go get your own apple your lazy bumb!

You can hop to another map instance. It takes about 4 instances to complete it. It may also work by swapping to another character but I didn’t do it that way.

It’s still way too grindy. Making something long, overly repeditive and tedius does not make it hard, just makes it annoying. Achievements like this are what people hate about MMOS, and only serve to incite player irritation. There’s just no need for so many apple runs.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

Ayrilana.1396:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

I really hate this achievement. Not only does it take 2-3 minutes per apple, running back and forth over and over again, but there’s not even enough apple trees to do it in one day, so you have to come back the next day, and the next. So so sooooooo grindy. I don’t want to feed the lazy bumb, I want to push him off the cliff?

Oh, that would be cool! Make an alternate achievement, where if you press f while you don’t have an apple, you get the chance to send him to the grave. I mean seriously man, I’ve got a couple gliders in my backpack, take one and go get your own apple your lazy bumb!

You can hop to another map instance. It takes about 4 instances to complete it. It may also work by swapping to another character but I didn’t do it that way.

It’s still way too grindy. Making something long, overly repeditive and tedius does not make it hard, just makes it annoying. Achievements like this are what people hate about MMOS, and only serve to incite player irritation. There’s just no need for so many apple runs.

Really no different than a lot of achievements that Anet creates. Wait until Halloween and Wintersday.

Two wrongs don’t make a right though Ayrilana. This one is just a more recent addition to crazy tasks that exist in MMO’s.

Lethalvriend.1723:

Two wrongs don’t make a right though Ayrilana. This one is just a more recent addition to crazy tasks that exist in MMO’s.

The achievement is optional as you could skip it and still be able to complete the meta. The only thing this gives is a few AP, a MP, and a title. There’s really no “right” or “wrong”.

Edit: Added that there is a MP too.

Well, someone (finally) intentionally or accidentally found a way to grief this achievement.

Ayrilana.1396:

Not exactly fun

I’ll never understand game developers. This…the 10,000 drinks or whatever it was,…etc, etc, etc…

What demographic are achievements like these supposed to be for? Whichever one it is, I’m not in it. lol

Monstrous and pointless grind kinda IS the intended method though…

I don’t believe that. ANet wants to make an enjoyable game, there must be some trick to make this at least somewhat enjoyable.

Really no different than a lot of achievements that Anet creates. Wait until Halloween and Wintersday.

I’ve done all the Winter and Halloween achievements, and none of them are so completely pointless as this one seems to be.

The achievement is optional as you could skip it and still be able to complete the meta. The only thing this gives is a few AP and a title. There’s really no “right” or “wrong”.

The meta only allows you to skip a few of the achievements though, and you need to get the JP achievement to get the mursat coin achievement, so your droppables are limited.

Ohoni.6057:

Monstrous and pointless grind kinda IS the intended method though…

I don’t believe that. ANet wants to make an enjoyable game, there must be some trick to make this at least somewhat enjoyable.

Really no different than a lot of achievements that Anet creates. Wait until Halloween and Wintersday.

I’ve done all the Winter and Halloween achievements, and none of them are so completely pointless as this one seems to be.

The achievement is optional as you could skip it and still be able to complete the meta. The only thing this gives is a few AP and a title. There’s really no “right” or “wrong”.

The meta only allows you to skip a few of the achievements though, and you need to get the JP achievement to get the mursat coin achievement, so your droppables are limited.

Look at the infinite ones.

Yes, the meta allows players to skip a few with Hungry Hal still being one of them. The “droppables” are all those that cannot be done separately although you could technically get the tokens without actually finishing the JP. So your “droppables” are fairly high.

Ayrilana.1396:

Lethalvriend.1723:

Two wrongs don’t make a right though Ayrilana. This one is just a more recent addition to crazy tasks that exist in MMO’s.

The achievement is optional as you could skip it and still be able to complete the meta. The only thing this gives is a few AP and a title. There’s really no “right” or “wrong”.

And a Mastery Point. I think most would want to complete it for said MP.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Ayrilana.1396:

Lethalvriend.1723:

Two wrongs don’t make a right though Ayrilana. This one is just a more recent addition to crazy tasks that exist in MMO’s.

The achievement is optional as you could skip it and still be able to complete the meta. The only thing this gives is a few AP and a title. There’s really no “right” or “wrong”.

And a Mastery Point. I think most would want to complete it for said MP.

True. I forgot that there was a MP attached to it too.

It’s only a tedious grind if you gotta-have-it-now. I’ve been delivering apples in between working on the circus heart when I happen to be over there. If I happen to land by a tree, I nab an apple, wp, and lava tube/glide my way to Hal. I’m not even half done and it’ll be my 26th map achieve so I’ll get the shoulders, but hey. I don’t gotta-have-it-this-minute!

I must say my new time-killer is hopping each of 19 alts between the VB flax farm and the EB seaweed farm. Delivering apples is a welcome break from too long a stint of that

I’m curious why people are so happy to have a seaweed farm. I assume seaweed must sell really well on the TP?

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

Malediktus.3740:

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

1-2 hours is indeed reasonable for a title. But one to 2 hours of running the same path back and forth over and over is not in any way fun. They could have come up with something INTERESTING for us to do for 1-2 hours, instead of this junk.

Boogiepop Void.6473:

Malediktus.3740:

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

1-2 hours is indeed reasonable for a title. But one to 2 hours of running the same path back and forth over and over is not in any way fun. They could have come up with something INTERESTING for us to do for 1-2 hours, instead of this junk.

They could have place 50 unique apple trees on the island, each of them only useable once per account. But then people would find other reasons to complain

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

It’s not the time that’s a problem, it’s the grindy nature of it. It requires very little creative gameplay, basically running the same loop over and over, but at the same time requires just enough attention to get there and back that you can’t just coast through it, you need to actively pay attention. It’s like working checkout at a retail place, just engaging enough that you can’t think about anything else, but not engaging enough to actually keep you fully occupied.

This is the worst possible gaming state for a game to achieve.

It is the “Razzie” of game design, and should be avoided whenever possible. Any game element should either be fun enough that players actively enjoy pursuing it (even if they have to do it over and over, each time is enjoyable enough), OR be so mindless that they can do it on autopilot and focus their attention on something else (like the various "kill 100 of these things, eventually) quests. This achievement fails at both.

I wish all Mastery Points were this easy to achieve, grindy or not.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Ayrilana.1396:

Not exactly fun

I’ll never understand game developers. This…the 10,000 drinks or whatever it was,…etc, etc, etc…

What demographic are achievements like these supposed to be for? Whichever one it is, I’m not in it. lol

I believe they do this type of thing all the time in some of the oriental MMOs.

Malediktus.3740:

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

As others have said, it’s not the 1-2 hours that’s the problem. The issue is that it is 1-2 hours of a repetitive boring activity. If it was 1-2 hours of a repetitive fun activity (e.g., slaying monsters) no one would complain.

If the game is not fun, we should not play it, so we should not support this kind of design.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I wish all Mastery Points were this easy to achieve, grindy or not.

I would argue that there are many mastery points that are easier to obtain: ie the pillars of light. Even the mastery points where you have to fight a boss, you can complete that battle in 1/10 the time, and the battle is fun, not overly repeditive grind of running back and forth. Isn’t that why Anet chose to go with hearts instead of the traditional mmo quest, because they didn’t want players to have to run back and forth… hmmmmm

And I would argue that many Mastery Points are a lot more difficult to attain. I suppose it’s a matter of perspective. If this particular Mastery Point was the most difficult to attain in the game, I would be happy.

Thus, my previous statement. I suppose I should have stated: “I wish that this was the most difficult Mastery Point to attain.”

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’m curious why people are so happy to have a seaweed farm. I assume seaweed must sell really well on the TP?

Previous to this farm, seaweed could only be found in three maps filled with hostile mobs and only sparsely per character per day. Not a problem until guild hall upgrades started needing hundreds of the stuff at a time. It was selling at 15 silver before the farm, now under 5 silver.

My joy at it is not at having something to sell, but at finally having a reliable supply for upgrades.

Malediktus.3740:

I dont think that 1-2 hours for a title is too much effort. It should have been more grindy to be honest

Some titles are meant to be easily achieved by anyone; this is one of those.

I still think it’s one of the most dull achievements added to the game since GW1. It’s basically like an unrepeatable heart with only one way to complete it. Pick up an apple, swing the apple. Swing the apple again.

And I would argue that many Mastery Points are a lot more difficult to attain. I suppose it’s a matter of perspective. If this particular Mastery Point was the most difficult to attain in the game, I would be happy.

Again, nobody is arguing that this one is difficult, it obviously is not. The argument being made is that it is not FUN, and there’s no good reason why it shouldn’t be.

Fun can be subjective. It seems a lot more fun to me that carrying a bunch of rabbits to that NPC in Wayfarer. Lol.

It is what it is; some prefer repetitive to uber-challenging. /shrug

Fun can be subjective. It seems a lot more fun to me that carrying a bunch of rabbits to that NPC in Wayfarer. Lol.

It’s marginally more fun than that, but that bunny thing only took about ten minutes to complete. Even at maximum efficiency this takes hours of grinding away at it.

Ok, we get it, you don’t like it. Some don’t mind this kind of thing.

Not everyone has to like or dislike the same thing.

I like to think everything she did was for her and she just wanted mordys voice out of her head so she wanted the dragon dead. If we had not killed her i am convinced she was going to use that powerful toxin she created to posion the leyline stream and destroy all the dragons that feed on the ley energy and rule over the world like a typical mad scientist. She could easliy rule without the need of magic in a magicless world with her atherblades and steam creatures that seem to come from a different universe. We will get answers when 4 necros and 1 druid stop killing mai trinn and horrik in level 100 fracts to give them time explain scarlets motives.

Ok, we get it, you don’t like it. Some don’t mind this kind of thing.

Not everyone has to like or dislike the same thing.

True, but that literally goes without saying.

I have a friend that says you have to buy S3E1 to even start playing S3E2 and is telling this to people who did in fact miss it.

Is this true?

Since I’ve collected both, I cannot check without buying a new account, and google is very unhelpful.
For me, a system like that seems like horrible business practices. Especially once we’re several episodes in.

NO, not true.

When you log in during an episode’s run you unlock it for free and can play it whenever you want (for LS3 though, you must have Heart of Thorns to play it, but it still gets unlocked to account even if you don’t own HoT, so you can later buy HoT and then still have free access to LS3) – you can play unlocked episodes in any order you choose and apart from story and lorewise no episode will require you to have played a previous one

If you don’t log in during an episodes 2-3 month long run you lose out on the free access and have to buy it via gemstore.

Note you can play the story mode for information and lore by joining in on another player’s run but you won’t get rewards or achievements.

Ohoni.6057:

Fun can be subjective. It seems a lot more fun to me that carrying a bunch of rabbits to that NPC in Wayfarer. Lol.

It’s marginally more fun than that, but that bunny thing only took about ten minutes to complete. Even at maximum efficiency this takes hours of grinding away at it.

Maximum efficiency is less than about a minute per apple, so at worst, it’s an hour of effort. (Only the first apple or two might take longer, til you figure out how to go back/forth quickly.) Mind you: it’s so stupefyingly boring to me, that it feels like hours of grinding.

Maximum efficiency is less than about a minute per apple, so at worst, it’s an hour of effort. (Only the first apple or two might take longer, til you figure out how to go back/forth quickly.) Mind you: it’s so stupefyingly boring to me, that it feels like hours of grinding.

Yes, which, however people insist on defending it, is a BAD GAME DESIGN.

Ohoni.6057:

Maximum efficiency is less than about a minute per apple, so at worst, it’s an hour of effort. (Only the first apple or two might take longer, til you figure out how to go back/forth quickly.) Mind you: it’s so stupefyingly boring to me, that it feels like hours of grinding.

Yes, which, however people insist on defending it, is a BAD GAME DESIGN.

Why exactly is it bad game design?

Ayrilana.1396:

It takes about two hours to do. Not exactly fun but you’ll eventually “zone out” after a dozen or so when it becomes automated.

Like doing a 2 hour race in gran turismo. If zoning out if part of it, then I feel it’s kind of a failed achievement, as your not really achieving anything. Other than becoming a zombie.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

It takes about two hours to do. Not exactly fun but you’ll eventually “zone out” after a dozen or so when it becomes automated.

Like doing a 2 hour race in gran turismo. If zoning out if part of it, then I feel it’s kind of a failed achievement, as your not really achieving anything. Other than becoming a zombie.

Well the achievement is completely optional. You don’t need it to complete the meta.

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

It takes about two hours to do. Not exactly fun but you’ll eventually “zone out” after a dozen or so when it becomes automated.

Like doing a 2 hour race in gran turismo. If zoning out if part of it, then I feel it’s kind of a failed achievement, as your not really achieving anything. Other than becoming a zombie.

Well the achievement is completely optional. You don’t need it to complete the meta.

You can do the meta with out doing that one, only need 23 out of the 26, but it is a valid complaint. Spending 2 hours doing one thing that gives you nothing but a title is a little in my book.

I have no intention of do any thing in any game that is that.mind numbing.

I hope ANet sees this as feed back, not a well they don’t have to do it.

But if you want to ride to there defence when its not needed, carry on.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ayrilana.1396:

It takes about two hours to do. Not exactly fun but you’ll eventually “zone out” after a dozen or so when it becomes automated.

Like doing a 2 hour race in gran turismo. If zoning out if part of it, then I feel it’s kind of a failed achievement, as your not really achieving anything. Other than becoming a zombie.

Well the achievement is completely optional. You don’t need it to complete the meta.

You can do the meta with out doing that one, only need 23 out of the 26, but it is a valid complaint. Spending 2 hours doing one thing that gives you nothing but a title is a little in my book.

I have no intention of do any thing in any game that is that.mind numbing.

I hope ANet sees this as feed back, not a well they don’t have to do it.

But if you want to ride to there defence when its not needed, carry on.

Then don’t do it. Or would you prefer that Anet puts it locked behind some ultra challenging thing that relies on a player’s personal skill? I’m pretty sure if there wasn’t a title or MP behind it that this thread would not exist. Some players wanted the shiny, didn’t like how they had to earn it, and came here to complain about it in hopes that the amount gets nerfed. Not everything in a game with be enjoyable by everyone.

Why exactly is it bad game design?

I explained that above.

Then don’t do it. Or would you prefer that Anet puts it locked behind some ultra challenging thing that relies on a player’s personal skill?

It doesn’t have to require great skill, it just has to involve player engagement. It needs to be something that players actively enjoy doing, and so far I haven’t heard anyone say that they actually really ENJOY doing this one, just that they don’t mind it so much, or that it’s a better alternative to skill challenges that they cannot complete. Neither of these mean that it’s good content.

Good content is content people ENJOY DOING, content that makes them happy as they do it. It doesn’t need to require any great skill, it can be something that anyone can do, but it needs to keep them engaged at all times.

When designing content, you should either make it something that can be completed in relatively few repetitions, or something that is fun enough that you’d want to keep doing it over and over, without any cumulative reward forcing you to do so.

How many people have delivered at least five apples to Hal AFTER completing the achievement? If the answer is zero, then that is not an activity that players should be forced to do more than five times to acquire a reward.

I’m not sure everyone enjoys re-visiting Vistas, or gathering mats, or throwing things in the Mystic Forge, or even doing events in a map…or countless other things offered in the game. But, they do them, anyway, for the reward.

If every bit of content had the prerequisite that everyone enjoyed it, then we might find ourselves with very little content.

I’m not sure everyone enjoys re-visiting Vistas, or gathering mats, or throwing things in the Mystic Forge, or even doing events in a map…or countless other things offered in the game. But, they do them, anyway, for the reward.

You only need to visit vistas once per character you intend World Completion on. The reward for them is minimal, and the effort involved is usually tiny. That is entirely different from grinding apples 50 time, you’re proving my point.

As for mystic forging, yeah, that can be a hassle sometimes, but they have streamlined it over the years, like adding 10x recipes for some things instead of having to do one at a time, and if they made other improvements, I’m sure people would appreciate them.

I’m not saying that players won’t do unpleasant things for the right reward, I’m saying that if players are finding something unpleasant, but do it anyway for the reward, then developers should consider that a failure on their part, and should do what they can to either make it fun for the player, or at least avoidable. It’s ok for content to not be fun, so long as players can choose to do something else without giving up on a specific reward. If they have no choice but to do that specific content to get a certain specific reward (like a Mastery point), then it should either be fun for all, or quick and easy enough to complete that nobody really minds the hassle. One or the other, either is fine.