Guild Wars 2

I like Braham being a jerk but… I don’t like not really having an option to respond to it. In the old paper and pencil RPG trope: I’m being railroaded. I just get to watch what happens rather than respond and choose a course of action.

Specifically, I’d like the option to tell him to go off and get himself killed while trying to prevent others from joining him in death.

Plus: his behavior spurs real emotion in me
Minus: I can’t do a darn thing about it

I know it is a lot more work to do a branching story and I accept that but please don’t expect me to get too worked up about the drama if I can’t actually influence the outcome.

That side, love the latest installment, please keep it up. Just let me at least slap him in the face of something

I never understand the hate for Logan, honestly. Yes, he turned his back on his guild, but he’s probably one of the most productive members of DE in our PC’s time. He’s pretty much single-handedly responsible for a large portion of why things so far have gone so well, frankly, when considering the effects of keeping the White Mantle in check, saving Rytlock, his ridiculous stand at the end of the Core GW2 story, etc. The path of redemption is long and hard, but he’s doing his “best” (filter) and doing a pretty good job, all things considered.

Logan had an ultimatum. Be absolutely certain that his beloved would be killed, or chance his friends not being strong enough to fight without him.

Would DE have just turned around and said “forget it” if Logan had died or been removed from the fight previously, anyways? Probably not, Snaff would probably have still died, if not worse. The only thing that’d have been different is Zojja might not be bitter at Logan because she wouldn’t have had someone to place the blame on if one of her loved ones died, like if Jenna would have if Logan put his guild first.

And quite frankly, it’s telling of the perspectives on the world between the races; how utilitarian the Asura and Charr are while Humans and Sylvari put massive weight behind their feelings and how love binds them (a la Caithe and Faolain).

No, Braham is absolutely nothing like Logan. Braham doesn’t have an ultimatum to make. He’s just being a self-centered kitten.

DeceiverX.8361:

I never understand the hate for Logan, honestly. Yes, he turned his back on his guild, but he’s probably one of the most productive members of DE in our PC’s time. He’s pretty much single-handedly responsible for a large portion of why things so far have gone so well, frankly, when considering the effects of keeping the White Mantle in check, saving Rytlock, his ridiculous stand at the end of the Core GW2 story, etc. The path of redemption is long and hard, but he’s doing his “best” (filter) and doing a pretty good job, all things considered.

Logan had an ultimatum. Be absolutely certain that his beloved would be killed, or chance his friends not being strong enough to fight without him.

Would DE have just turned around and said “forget it” if Logan had died or been removed from the fight previously, anyways? Probably not, Snaff would probably have still died, if not worse. The only thing that’d have been different is Zojja might not be bitter at Logan because she wouldn’t have had someone to place the blame on if one of her loved ones died, like if Jenna would have if Logan put his guild first.

And quite frankly, it’s telling of the perspectives on the world between the races; how utilitarian the Asura and Charr are while Humans and Sylvari put massive weight behind their feelings and how love binds them (a la Caithe and Faolain).

No, Braham is absolutely nothing like Logan. Braham doesn’t have an ultimatum to make. He’s just being a self-centered kitten.

Again, this comes down to a matter of how the character is portrayed, and I feel this is something many people don’t understand. You can have a character that literally screws the world over and people love them, and a character that seemingly does good but people hate them, and it all comes down to how that character comes across or how well they are written.

I explained in a response to someone else how Logan’s behavior in game paints a very bad impression of him. He comes across as whiny and childish and so while his reasons for leaving Destiny’s Edge might seem valid on paper, the way he behaves makes him seem more selfish and so puts those reasons into question.

When I compare Braham to Logan, I’m not comparing a list of what they’ve done, but rather showing similarities in how badly they are both being portrayed in the game and why portraying a character poorly can make them very unlikable. Of course, it’s just my opinion and others may disagree.

First of all let me say that I was very unpleasantly surprised by Braham’s change in behavior. He’s downright disrespectful, aggressive and selfish. This thing he’s doing right now can only lead to more bad things and in the end he’ll have himself to blame for it.

Having said that, I can understand where he’s coming from, being the young, brash and hotheaded Norn that he is. For most of his life he’s despised his mother for walking out on him and his father. Never mind that she was working with Destiny’s Edge to eliminate the threat of Elder Dragons. This was the first sign that Braham is rather self-centered and does not have a a clear vision of the big picture (or any vision of it at all). He and her got off to a rocky start, but after their joint mission in Frostgorge Sound he has grown to respect her, and see things from her perspective. Both fighting for the same cause would have also helped for them to become closer. He might’ve realized he’d been a bit of an kitten for disliking her most of his life.

So now he’s seeing his mother through different eyes, perhaps even feeling honored being her son. Whatever time he’s lost with her, he could catch up again. Then comes Mordremoth and the failed attempt of the Pact to fight him. He was very anxious to find his mother, not wanting to lose her so soon after meeting her and changing his opinion of her. But alas for him, she becomes a casualty of war. His one chance to get to know his mother better is taken away from him. I would not be surprised if he blames himself for all the years he’s disliked her, not finding her and getting to know her. He had already lost his father not that long ago, and now his mother. I can tell from experience it’s a weird realization, knowing that the people who brought you into this world are no longer in this world. And especially when you’ve just decided to strengthen the bonds between you, to have that chance taken away is harsh.

So what does a young and hotheaded Norn do in such a case? He throws himself into the fight, honoring his mother in death, making up for lost time. It’s hard to look in the mirror and acknowledge that you’ve made a mistake you can never correct. Lashing out to those around you is not a strange reaction in such circumstances. So his mother’s quest was to defeat the Elder Dragons. He takes that on with renewed fervor. He feels quite anxious about it, because every little thing that might impede on his progress makes him feel even more like a failure. Blaming others for your own shortcomings is a natural response for a lot of people, no matter how you feel about that. There will be a myriad of “what ifs” going on his mind. The memory of his mother is sacred to him now, and nothing will stand in the way of him fulfilling his mother’s quest, no matter what anyone says. Anything else is trivial by comparison.

It’s a sad state to be in, even more so because it turns him against his friends and allies, who have been there for him all this time and saved his life on several occasions. But he’s not thinking about that now. He’s grieving, blaming himself for things he couldn’t have helped. He’s confronted with his own shortcomings, his own narrowminded vision of his mother. More than anything, I feel he’s trying to make up for that. I don’t think that deep down inside he truly blames the Commander and the rest of the guild. But it’s easier to stay angry than to look in the mirror and face your shortcomings, face that you can never fix what you’ve done wrong. He’s not honoring Eir’s legacy, Or Destiny’s Edge’s honor. He’s burying himself in the rage he feels for losing her, for losing his chance to become closer to her. We often put those we’ve lost on a pedestal, something we would likely never do while they are still alive. We forget the inconveniences and idolize what we thought we could’ve had if things went differently. I understand where he might be coming from, even though I disapprove of his current behavior.

Braham, what an emo whiner. Its obvious that he’s just immature and thinks the entire world should revolve around him and his issues. Luckily Norn like to be killed in combat. Hopefully he doesn’t get Rox or any other non-Norn killed as well.

About defending Braham because of his age: Well, in my case (or any Sylvari PC) he was being mean as hell to a FOUR-YEAR-OLD, just so he knows, the kittening over-muscled self-absorbed bully…

Braham certainly worked my nerves in this story but I am curious to see how his character will develop in the coming LS.

The norn elder told us that the myth of the fang had certain value in controlling and inspiring the young and said that “Disillusion can wait.” Well, it has waited too long, and it’s angry now. It will no longer come gently, like carefully discussion the existence of Santa Claus with a child, but will be as hard as a fall off a tall cliff.

Since before the time of Olaf Olafsson, 250 years ago, norn culture has been “Armies? Norn do not need armies! We are norn!” The average norn is highly individualistic and obsessed with staking out some area of dominance and making a legend out of it, whether it be smithing (Gunnar Poundfist, Belgarth) or the biggest collection of axes around (discussion among NPCs overheard in Hoelbrak).

Norn do have group actions, but the members have to be persuaded to come by promises of good hunting, and they operate as a mob, each with their own agenda. Olaf promised to tell everyone what “wonderful prey” the destroyers were to encourage them to fight the Great Destroyer. Knut Whitebear spoke of his sons polishing their weapons when they heard about Mordy’s minions. Nothing has changed.

The very rite of passage of the society, the Great Hunt, reinforces this culture. A large number of young hunters sets out for the qualifying round with each determined to bring back the biggest and best trophy to prove their individual skill and get into the final event. The qualifying hunters go up against the final foe as a mob of individuals, each determined to be “the” winner, not to beat the foe as a group.

Eir was one of the enlightened ones. She understood the value of coordinated group action, the value of forming alliances, and the value of gathering intel and forming a plan before action. She was attempting to bring about a cultural shift in norn society by demonstrating these values through the actions of Destiny’s Edge. That, rather than her exceptional fighting ability, is her true legacy.

Braham also showed glimmers of understanding this as he worked with the team against Scarlet and during season 2. He even spoke to us about seeing the value in joining one of the Orders and suggested it was something the norn needed to think about.

Unfortunately, he seems to have forgotten his own insights and reverted to type. He’s decided to “honor” his mother’s memory and legacy by efforts that will undo all of her work. but is too blinded by grief and anger to see that he’s figuratively slapping her in the face. It seems that he will end up being the Bringer of Disillusion for the myth of Jormag’s Tooth, and he’s sprinting towards a very tall cliff indeed.

coso.9173:

but you’re still assuming this. it has not happened. Norns havent gone yet to kill Jormag and died in the process. we just got to play this story part and it wont be more for a few months at least.

He’s told us what he plans to do. Actions speak louder than words, yes, but we can judge him by what he says he’s going to do, just how it’s entirely reasonable to judge a politician by what they say they’re going to do.

He’s also taken a first step that cannot be taken back. Now that the tooth has been damaged, he’s going to have his work cut out for him if he does change his mind and try to urge caution and restraint now.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

Okay, I have to say this, I am liking the new Living Story season so far, but one thing I don’t like is how Braham is developing as a character. He’s quickly going from a character I used to like to a character I am now beginning to loath.

For me, the Braham I liked was the character we saw in LS2. In particular, his protective big brother relationship with Taimi and his friendship with Rox was something I enjoyed seeing develop. For obvious reasons this took a turn during the expansion story and Braham has since become a whiny, revenge-starved maniac who quickly disregards the issues, feelings and opinions of others in order to fuel his own Agenda.

We already saw some of this development in the expansion with the way he treated Tiami like a useless child and kept brooding about wanting to kill Mordremoth, but I had hoped that since Taimi had saved him and proven that she was more of an asset to the team, that he’d cool his head a bit and start seeing the bigger picture. Unfortunately, this latest LS episode proves otherwise; he’s become even more whiny and selfish than ever and still treats everyone else on the team like expendable baggage.

I have to say, I hate whiny characters. That doesn’t mean to say I hate characters who have a revenge complex, but I prefer it when they’re written in a manner that makes them seem more cold, calculated and thoughtful, and less like a spoiled child who rages and gives everyone around them the middle finger whenever things don’t go their way.

To me, this is why people disliked Logan, because he was whiny, often childish and abandoned his teammates because he was blinded by his own personal agenda and failed to see the bigger picture (which also lead to more than one ally’s death). Unfortunately, I see Braham ending up in the same pit and even if this is a ploy by the writers to create a fall and redemption type story for Braham, I’m afraid that by the time he finally comes around again the damage will have already been done and Braham will be irredeemable as a character in the eyes of many players.

If Braham is going to remain a mainstay in the player’s primary entourage, then I’d encourage writers to please take more care of him as a character and not drag him through a river of muddy salt.

I agree, i couldn’t beleive the things he said in the most recent living story and how he was so careless towards what happened to Rox!

Harbinger.7465:

I agree, i couldn’t beleive the things he said in the most recent living story and how he was so careless towards what happened to Rox!

At least he said thank you to Rox afterward, though he couldn’t be bothered to ask if she was okay. Not a peep of appreciation, though, for the one who worked out the mechanics of the encounter, got the scroll for him, and helped him kill the bad thing once he made it vulnerable.