Guild Wars 2

re: 2 or 3 ludicrously simple jumps – To those who have good, stable internet connections, and who find jumping easy – Yes, they are simple. But to those of us who have poorer internet connections, or who find jumping difficult or who can’t jump – they aren’t so simple. Please be open minded. We aren’t asking for jumping type content to be taken out. Only that it please be optional for mainstream content. Are we all in agreement that open world and Living Story Season 2 are mainstream content, while jumping puzzles and special are achievements are not? Why should jumping and jumping-type moves be restricting access to a new map and Living Story Season 2? Meanwhile, people are getting ported for the JP on a regular basis.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: 2 or 3 ludicrously simple jumps – To those who have good, stable internet connections, and who find jumping easy – Yes, they are simple. But to those of us who have poorer internet connections, or who find jumping difficult or who can’t jump – they aren’t so simple. Please be open minded. We aren’t asking for jumping type content to be taken out. Only that it please be optional for mainstream content. Are we all in agreement that open world and Living Story Season 2 are mainstream content, while jumping puzzles and special are achievements are not? Why should jumping and jumping-type moves be restricting access to a new map and Living Story Season 2? Meanwhile, people are getting ported for the JP on a regular basis.

Again I point you to 20:10 through 20:20. Even if I were under crippling lag running on a 15 year old laptop with half the keys broken, I could make that jump. Saying that a game mechanic should be curtailed because of inferior hardware and internet is just flawed. Anet needs to draw the line somewhere. I seriously doubt the majority of players are experiencing such game-breaking latency and frame rate issues that they cannot make that jump. That is just insane.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: If you can’t jump, then you shouldn’t/probably shouldn’t be playing this game. – I have seen this over and over. And if GW2 was a platform jumper or any other traditional “reflex” game, then it would be perfectly valid argument. But it’s not a jumping, or other traditionally “reflex based” game, it’s a high fantasy MMO, the sequel to Guild Wars, which has no jumping mechanic. So with that in mind, can you see why people who don’t enjoy, and aren’t good with reflex based games are buying and playing GW2? Please don’t tell us that we have no business playing this game.

But GW2 is an action based reflex MMO. So actually it is that type of game. This doesnt mean this game is going to be possible for all disabled people who could play the prequel. The game has evolved into a hybrid MMO. You have to accept the hard truth that it may not be suitable for you. Besides theres plenty of stories of severely disabled people who play complex games with pretty much equal skill to others. Those of you complaining about this because you cant do it are just defeatists. Have a little self respect and keep trying until you find a way you can do it. It shouldnt be too hard seeing as i can manage it with 2 fingers.

I dont like the aspect jumping because i dont find it fun. But thats a different arguement entirely.

It’s funny that you chose that particular jump as an example, Xenon. On just the second time when I made that jump using the lightning tether, it inexplicably stopped traveling halfway across the gap and dropped me to my death. So perhaps that will help you see why I find gw2 platforming to be needlessly annoying. Simple as point and click? Ideally. But the implementation is poor.

But I stand corrected with regard to the OP of this thread, he/she did have a bad attitude. Also, it’s somewhat unfortunate that your pro-jumping thread got merged into an anti-jumping one.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: 2 or 3 ludicrously simple jumps – To those who have good, stable internet connections, and who find jumping easy – Yes, they are simple. But to those of us who have poorer internet connections, or who find jumping difficult or who can’t jump – they aren’t so simple. Please be open minded. We aren’t asking for jumping type content to be taken out. Only that it please be optional for mainstream content. Are we all in agreement that open world and Living Story Season 2 are mainstream content, while jumping puzzles and special are achievements are not? Why should jumping and jumping-type moves be restricting access to a new map and Living Story Season 2? Meanwhile, people are getting ported for the JP on a regular basis.

Elden, you’re one of the most vocal I’ve seen on this and so I tested this.

I tried getting from the Dry Top Entry waypoint to Prosperity waypoint on a Charr (one of the worst for jumping) with 5-9 FPS and it was very doable. Terribly clunky and you can see the Assisted Leap I didn’t make it the first time because I wasn’t facing the right way, but now after doing it myself in some of the worst conditions I could possibly recreate on my own, I can see that many people are complaining just because things are a little harder than they would like.

It took me 2 minutes to get from point A to point B because I took my time and didn’t try to rush it. And here is the video of me doing it…

http://youtu.be/sGgcB3-ZsWI

It is a level 80 zone, gives those of us that have done everything else somewhere new and provides a slight challenge for those willing to push through it. I see no restrictions to anyone wanting to get into the map.

Khani, thank you for putting in the effort to do some testing. You’ve factored in system performance issues, but you’re still a person with good jumping capability.(right?) I’m sure that I would not be able to make those jumps at that frame rate.(I have a hard enough time with them at the normal frame rate.) I actually have made those jumps myself, unassisted. But with fairly normal frame rates, and only occasional weird lag. Lightning pull has glitched on me several times, but not so badly that my character has died from it. So I’m lucky – I have low jumping capability, but generally acceptable system performance, with occasional lag. So I can get by.(on most of the jumps I’ve tried) But if I had poorer system performance, or a poorer internet connection. Or if I was even worse at jumping, it could arrest my progress in the Living Story instances.(Which, in fact, I have not yet completed.)
Thank you again for putting in the time and effort to do some research, and for respectfully communicating your point. But can you see my point as well? Some people have more difficulties stacked against them than I do. I’m trying to speak for them as well. Also, I haven’t completed episode 1 of LS S2 yet. There may be harder jumps that I can’t make. Why must these be required for Living Story?(Which has been represented as mainstream content.)
Thank you for stepping up and doing the testing. And for being respectful in your post.

Equilibriator stated

“On a side note, I don’t care that I sound arrogant or insulting, you deserve it because you are trying to make this game pathetically easy because you cant do basic things. Seriously, why did you buy the game if you cant jump, I don’t know how you don’t see how utterly selfish people like you are being by essentially asking/demanding that the game have stuff that lets you “skip” anything you cant do whilst not giving a kitten about people who cant do other things. Go read a book, watch a movie, those are thing you should be able to do without pushing any buttons, therefore its perfect for you and your complete inability to play the game.”

This seems to be the crux of the attitude regarding non jumpers. How this kind of toxicity is supported by the moderators is baffling.

“Complete Inability to play the game” Really? Hmm. I have 11 level 80 chars. 2 lower levels. Rank 172 ish in WvW with limited play. 7k ish AP while ignoring most LS and all jump related activity. Fully geared in exotics with some Ascended. Cultural armor on all chars. I have somehow managed 4k kills in WvW , (defending/taking camps, I do not zerg with my slow and inaccurate keyboarding). I have 4k hours played. And, I don’t do Jumping focused activities at all.

Your definition of “complete inability” is quite a bit different than mine, unless your sole goal is to insult and demean.

I have “skipped” all jumping focused content in this game, so far, without impacting any other players ability to do that content. However, I’ve never had jumping focused content gate me from an entire open world zone like this update has. Excuse me for objecting to that.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Khani, thank you for putting in the effort to do some testing. You’ve factored in system performance issues, but you’re still a person with good jumping capability.(right?) I’m sure that I would not be able to make those jumps at that frame rate.(I have a hard enough time with them at the normal frame rate.) I actually have made those jumps myself, unassisted. But with fairly normal frame rates, and only occasional weird lag. Lightning pull has glitched on me several times, but not so badly that my character has died from it. So I’m lucky – I have low jumping capability, but generally acceptable system performance, with occasional lag. So I can get by.(on most of the jumps I’ve tried) But if I had poorer system performance, or a poorer internet connection. Or if I was even worse at jumping, it could arrest my progress in the Living Story instances.(Which, in fact, I have not yet completed.)
Thank you again for putting in the time and effort to do some research, and for respectfully communicating your point. But can you see my point as well? Some people have more difficulties stacked against them than I do. I’m trying to speak for them as well. Also, I haven’t completed episode 1 of LS S2 yet. There may be harder jumps that I can’t make. Why must these be required for Living Story?(Which has been represented as mainstream content.)
Thank you for stepping up and doing the testing. And for being respectful in your post.

You’re right, I am good at jumping puzzles in the first place, but personally I still can’t see how these few jumps to get into the zone and work on the puzzle are stopping people.

I completely agree that the lightning pull borks and even on my actual gaming computer with a good 70-90fps I’d get overshot (which is why I now aim just under where I want to go)….that’s not a hardware issue, that is an issue with that one particular skill.

Having done all of the living story stuff so far I can say that the final boss I stood on a rock and ranged him. I didn’t bother trying to go from one rock to another and his shield thing that you were supposed to use the light dash to break him out of eventually went away and I didn’t have to deal with that part (I heard the dialogue ‘hey use this’ but never saw what they meant).

Could I do all of the living story (not the bonus achievements) with a bad computer and lag? Yes, I believe I could. It wouldn’t be very much fun as I know what it’s like to do it on a good computer without lag.

At the end of the day you have to ask yourself if you’re having fun playing Guild Wars 2. If the answer to that is anything other than yes then you need to examine why you’re here. I love this game, I find it fun and while there are aspects of this game that really tick me off (whole other topic that I’m tired of venting about), overall, I’m still having fun and will continue on trekking through the adventure.

@the guys who claim GW2 was never advertised with jumping:

The first and most important thing you must know is that yes, you can jump in Guild Wars 2! Seriously, though, jumping is more than just a thing you do with your spacebar when you’re bored; it’s a symbol of boundlessness. Guild Wars 2 itself is trying to jump a lot higher than its elder brother, and probably the essential difference between the games is that feeling that the walls have come down and gravity is letting loose. That alone should urge classic players to take a peek, but if that’s not enough for you, fire up your Jeremy Soule soundtracks (yes, he’s onboard for an encore!) and read on…

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/making-the-jump-from-guild-wars-to-guild-wars-2/

I can remember, it was HUGE and Anet devs loved to talk about it.

you also might read this:

http://kotaku.com/5939656/the-joy-of-jumping-why-arenanet-lets-you-hop-in-guild-wars-2

Izzy about the fun of jumping and how it started

re: @the guys who claim GW2 was never advertised with jumping: http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/26/making-the-jump-from-guild-wars-to-guild-wars-2/ – Yes that guy writing an article for a game magazine was excited about it. That isn’t an ad, or a statement, or a description from Anet. And no one said there would be heavy emphasis on required jumping.

re: [jumping] I can remember, it was HUGE – No, underwater had the HUGE hype. If they had hyped jumping to the same degree, I would have remembered that. As it would have been an indication of trouble down the road.

re: Anet devs loved to talk about it. – Go ahead and link where those devs said that there would be heavy emphasis on precision jumping, and that it would be required for mainstream content.(Please provide a time index as well.)

this is getting ridiculous

re: you also might read this: / Izzy about the fun of jumping and how it started – Some very subjective stuff from the author.(not an Anet employee or representative) And an Anet employee talking about how fun jumping is and nothing about it being required. Nor even about it being a heavy focus in the game.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/27/arenanet-on-guild-wars-2-as-a-platformer/

Let’s start with the basics: For the uninitiated, Guild Wars 2 will – in addition to combat, crafting, PVP, instances, and other more traditional MMO fare – mold a series of rudimentary jumping puzzles around “vistas.”

…might find these a tad easy. And there’s a good reason for that. Zadorojny explained:

“For vistas, all of them are in very platform-y locations. We try and keep them fairly easy, because for map completion, we don’t want it to be, like, a game of absolute skill where only the best players can do it. Also, we realize that a lot of players can’t do those things due to motion sickness and stuff like that, so we try to make the map completion stuff accessible.”

“A lot of the decisions we’ve made on Guild Wars 2 have been a culmination of us looking at the industry as a whole and deciding we want to see things differently and try new things,” said Zadorojny.

This proves that jumping is/was from the beginning a big part in GW2, the devs even explained that vistas are designed accessible enough so that you don’t have to be hardcore to get map completion.

The jumping for vistas imho is on par with the mandatory jumping we see now on the new map. Timers shouldn’t be an issue since crystals respawn indefinitely. I’m very aware that the anti-crowd here doesn’t want jumping removed but rather “nerved”. I can’t really see how they could make it easier than it is now. (and again, no, increasing the timer would not change the difficulty for the mandatory parts on this map since the crystal respawns on the same location directly in front of the obstacle.

(I already wrote this and I still got no response, especially on the respawn argument)

Dear ANet,

I do not enjoy the jumpitty-jump. Some people do, and that’s cool. I don’t want to stomp on their fun; I want them to continue to have as much jumping as they desire.

But please remember that many others of us find jumping to be tedious and frustrating, and not even remotely enjoyable. With that in mind, please try to design your content accordingly so that it is fun for as many people as possible. Thank you!

On a side note, I don’t care […] that I sound arrogant or insulting, you deserve it because you are trying to make this game pathetically easy because you cant do basic things. Seriously, why did you buy the game if you cant jump, I don’t know how you don’t see….

The reason things like this keep bouncing back and forth endlessly is because people like you […] blindly ignore any statements made against something you want. I am actually …..

And much more of such pot/ kettle/ black crap.

As for….

dude, that was painful to read. You are reading my comments, quoting them but not actually tackling the points I am making and are instead just making the same statements you previously said another time.

..I also mentioned this thread would go back and forth mostly, as long as Anet does not share ‘their’ current PoV/ insights.

I was “done” with this thread like a week ago, and was confronted with quite a lot of disrespectful kicking down, by some.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Jumping-Feedback-Thread/4166390

**

i can not quote directly with names, maybe due to the forum limitations/ restrictions after a warning and infraction I recently received automated through PM (I lol’ed), when I replied to more or less insulting posts made by some. Not sure if connected to the ‘report post’ function.

re: crystal respawn – If I try to make a ZA jump, miss, and die. What difference does it make that I have time left on the crystal, or that a new crystal will respawn 100’ above my dead body in a few seconds? Yes, there will be one there when I run/jump/ZA jump all the way back to that spot.(If I can.) And then maybe die again.
If I try to make a ZA jump, miss, and end up some place I’m not supposed to be. What difference does it make that a new crystal spawns back where I launched from a few seconds later? If I can’t get “back on track” in the time I have left, I have to drop down(and possibly die) rez, run/jump/ZA jump back to that spot.(If I can) And maybe miss or die in the next attempt.(then start over, again) It isn’t fun and it isn’t what Guild Wars 2 was advertized/billed/represented as. Which brings us to:

This magazine article: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/27/arenanet-on-guild-wars-2-as-a-platformer/
Which if you read it, says that jumping is a new feature of the engine which they’re impressed with and think is fun. And they’ve made some optional extras to show off this new feature.(which the original GW did not have) Nowhere does it say that this new feature is a heavy focus and will dominate that game and that GW2 is a hybrid fantasy MMO/platformer. Nothing did. If GW2 had been represented, advertized, or hyped as a hybrid fantasy MMO/platformer, then many people posting here(including me) would never have bought it. I know I have no business playing platform jumping games or games with heavy platformer emphasis. And I know that I don’t enjoy anything like that. Why would I buy one? Why would any of the people who have admitted to having difficulties jumping, and who don’t find jumping fun, have bought a game advertized as jump-heavy, or jump-centric?(we didn’t, it wasn’t)
Also, the ZA stuff isn’t merely jump-like. It’s also an awkward to use, tacked-on mechanic which has problems of it’s own. And even if the jumping was emphasized and required at release,(which it wasn’t) the ZA stuff is a new, post-release feature. It is much more recent, and once again, was never hyped or represented as something that was going to be core and required.

re: the devs even explained that vistas are designed accessible enough so that you don’t have to be hardcore to get map completion. – They, like some people here, can jump. And have no idea or comprehension of what it’s like to not be able to jump, or have difficulty jumping. And once again vistas are optional. All of the original jumping features were optional. Living Story is considered mainstream.

What do you mean by “nerved”? – Do you mean “nerfed”? If so, we don’t want jumping nerfed, we want it to be optional. Make it more difficult for all we care. Just don’t make it mandatory.
If you mean something other than “nerfed”, please explain.

(I already wrote this and I still got no response, especially on the respawn argument)

Yes, you did indeed. Having the timer on the aspects, limits progress. It’s a bit like one step forward, several steps back, as a player needs to get back to ‘a crystal active for a few seconds’ to (trying to) continue. Which is very hard, if you jump up on and after several ledges/ beams (or w/e they are called in English). Hence: ‘alternative routes’, also.

re: But GW2 is an action based reflex MMO – Where have you seen it advertized or represented that way?

here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild_Wars_2 – It says “Genre(s) MMORPG”, with nothing in the description text referencing heavy focus on jumping or reflex elements, or “hybrid MMO”.

Nor does the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto mention any of these things:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

And if you watch this promo video:
What is Guild Wars 2 (ESRB)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XnB0e9UONo

You briefly see some Asura jumping from 4:10 to 4:13, call it 4 seconds out of a 4 minutes 27 second video. Not a significant amount of time. Plus with the camera angle and the brevity, it’s hard even to tell what’s actually going on. Jumping certainly isn’t showcased in that promo video.

I’ve skimmed several other articles, mostly those referenced in the references section of the wikipedia entry. And I haven’t seen the terms “action based reflex MMO” or “hybrid MMO”(or similar terms) Please tell us where they use these labels to describe Guild Wars 2.

re: You have to accept the hard truth that it may not be suitable for you. – I’m trying to avoid that possible future. For all of us who have jumping, ZA, internet performance, and reflex related issues.

re: I dont like the aspect jumping because i dont find it fun. But thats a different arguement entirely. – Yes it is. But that still falls within what’s appropriate for a “Jumping Feedback Thread”. For the record, I’m bad at jumping, and I dislike it.

re: Those of you complaining about this because you cant do it are just defeatists./Have a little self respect and keep trying until you find a way you can do it – I’m sure it seems that way to someone who can mange it with 2 fingers. But everyone isn’t as fortunate as you. I have completed a lot of the Living Story related jumping. But not everyone can say that. We’re going to tell those people that this game isn’t for them?(Or for me either, if I can’t finish Living Story episode 1?)

re: i can manage it with 2 fingers. – Oh, yeah. Video or it didn’t happen.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: But GW2 is an action based reflex MMO – Where have you seen it advertized or represented that way?

It doesn’t need to be advertised as an action-based, reflex MMO. It just is one. Traditional MMOs, which seem to be what you want it to be, generally have you just standing around in combat hitting your attack keys. This one promotes and, in many cases requires, movement and the ability to dodge. If you didn’t have the reflexes, you couldn’t have taken any useful part in the previous living world content. Try to do Marionette fights without the reflexes to dodge and stay mobile. Tell me how long until you’re on the ground. As soon as they put a dodge button in, and made it so that many fights require you to stay mobile in order to not get murdered by a big orange circle, it became a reflex-based game.

But okay, I’m going to be more than fair to all the anti-jumpers who are claiming that there’s a huge amount of precise, very hard, or impossible jumps that you have to do for the story content. I’ve already asked for proof of these jumps and where they are, but got none. So I’ve done the work.

I’ve taken screenshots of every mandatory jump required to get through the story. It is now in the court of the anti-jumpers to show where all these precise, super hard jumps are. Ignore that the character changes for some. The female hasn’t done the story yet.

1. Lightning Aspect to the platform. If you land on any of the ledges below where the Wind Aspect is, you can do a couple small hops up.
2. Lightning Aspect to the wall, then Wind Aspect up to the very big platform above you. Impossible to overshoot. Just target the wall itself and you’ll hit it and fall down.
3. No more than three easy jumps to fairly large platforms (the last being a very big platform). Realistically, you can make it in TWO easy jumps, because you have the wind aspect from beneath.
4. You could either use the Wind Aspect you have to jump straight up to the next huge platform, or hop to the crate and up one more. Again, easy jumps.
5. One Wind Aspect jump to the top of another huge platform. From here you can run to the Story Instance #2.
6. In Story Instance #2, one Lightning Aspect over a short gap to a huge platform. You could only miss the platform if you tried.
7. Two short Wind Aspect hops to fairly large rocks. If you need extra time for these for some reason, you can pick up the Wind Aspect crystal repeatedly to get up to 1:30 in aspect time.
8. Two more Wind Aspect hops to large platforms.
9. Post-Story Instance #2, on the way to Story Instance #3. A few short hops up an incline where you can really just hold forward and jump.
10. Wind Aspect hop to a fairly large ledge.
11. Route #1: Wind Aspect to a large platform, then over a small gap to another fairly large platform.
12. Route #1: Wind Aspect from previous fairly large platform to massive plateau.
13. Route #2: Short Wind Aspect hop from the first large platform in #11 to a ledge on the wall (small ledge, but if you hold forward against the wall and hit your Wind Aspect, you’ll automatically land right on it), then from there to the massive plateau.
14. Route #3: From the first large platform in #11, you can run along the wall to your right and jump to that first large platform just above the fire lizard and then to the massive plateau.
15. Last jump, from the massive plateau to a large ledge. The Wind Aspect gives you more than enough height to easily clear it, with plenty of distance to spare.

So where are the precise, nigh-impossible jumps? Those all seem to be to rather large platforms which require about as much precision as throwing a ball at your wall.

People with lag due to bad computers/internet connections: Don’t respond. The topic here is people being denied main story content due to jumping. If you have a bad computer/internet connection that messes up THESE jumps, I’d be very interested to know how you managed to take part in Marionette and Assault Knight/Holograms last season.

People who just don’t like jumping: Also don’t respond. I don’t like PVP, but was forced to WvW to get my map completion. I don’t like dungeons, but am forced to to get dungeon skins. I don’t like farming, but need to if I want to make Ascended gear. Before you try to get sympathy because you don’t want to jump, you should go fight for WvW to be removed from map completion, which should be an entirely PVE aspect of the game.

I want responses from people who have physical limitations that entirely prevent them from making these jumps. Which of these jumps is hard to do? This is your chance. Prove your point, rather than making circular assertions.

Filaha.1678:

People who just don’t like jumping: Also don’t respond. I don’t like PVP, but was forced to WvW to get my map completion. I don’t like dungeons, but am forced to to get dungeon skins. I don’t like farming, but need to if I want to make Ascended gear. Before you try to get sympathy because you don’t want to jump, you should go fight for WvW to be removed from map completion, which should be an entirely PVE aspect of the game.

In essence, you’re implying here that people who don’t like a specific aspect of the game have no right to speak up about it unless they champion every single other person’s cause as well. Either that, or you believe that because the devs didn’t listen to people’s complaints about WvW, we should not voice any other complaints about the game… either way, I hope this helps you see that it is not the best line of reasoning. And if it doesn’t, then we just have to agree to disagree, because I believe that everybody should have the right to voice their opinions as long as it’s done in a civil manner.

spikyblackhair.4951:

Filaha.1678:

People who just don’t like jumping: Also don’t respond. I don’t like PVP, but was forced to WvW to get my map completion. I don’t like dungeons, but am forced to to get dungeon skins. I don’t like farming, but need to if I want to make Ascended gear. Before you try to get sympathy because you don’t want to jump, you should go fight for WvW to be removed from map completion, which should be an entirely PVE aspect of the game.

In essence, you’re implying here that people who don’t like a specific aspect of the game have no right to speak up about it unless they champion every single other person’s cause as well. Either that, or you believe that because the devs didn’t listen to people’s complaints about WvW, we should not voice any other complaints about the game… either way, I hope this helps you see that it is not the best line of reasoning. And if it doesn’t, then we just have to agree to disagree, because I believe that everybody should have the right to voice their opinions as long as it’s done in a civil manner.

I didn’t say that.

If you read all of what I post and don’t try to misrepresent my statement by taking it out of context, I said to not respond to what I posted, i.e. the pictures.

The point of posting the pictures is to find out which of those jumps are, as people have said, “precision jumps”, and “very hard, if not impossible”. It is not to find out who “just doesn’t want to jump”.

However, if you want to take it that way, yes. If they aren’t willing to champion removing every aspect that people don’t want to do that is unrelated to what they do want to do, then they shouldn’t expect special treatment. I want to be tres fashionaaaabluh, but don’t like dungeons. Dungeons are unrelated to me dressing up pretty. So dungeons should not be a necessity for me filling up my wardrobe, right? I want to explore the map, but I don’t want to PVP. PVP is unrelated to my completion of the map, so it should be removed as a necessity, right? And I expect them all to head over to the thread where people want to get rid of “tiered” content that relies on a bunch of anonymous, random people to work together in order for them to get rewards, because their personal rewards shouldn’t rely on a bunch of unrelated people getting organized.

Very well, agree to disagree. I won’t try to argue the logic of it with you, because I don’t think either of us is likely to make any headway.

But I will just make one final remark, not directed to anybody in particular, that I am not one of those who goes to the WvW forums and calls PvE completionists carebears simply because I enjoy WvW, and I find it extremely regrettable that those types of people exist both here and there.

Thank you for the nice screen shots with handy hint arrows.

re: It doesn’t need to be advertised as an action-based, reflex MMO. It just is one. – Misrepresenting a product as something different than it is would be misrepresentation or false advertising. It’s also common sense. A company doesn’t want to sell a product to people who won’t like it, or can’t use it. This is bad PR. And it makes extra work for their tech support, and extra work for their complaints, returns, etc… departments.

re: " I have difficulty jumping" = “I want to stand in one place and hit one button over and over” – This is obviously wrong.

re: dodging and jumping are the same thing, if you can dodge, you can jump. – Once again this is obviously wrong. And I’ve addressed this before.(But you think it’s ridiculous to have to read the thread before posting.) I have participated in the Marionette event, and gotten credit, without dying. I have participated in the Assault Knight event, and gotten credit, without dying. I don’t remember if I got through the Holograms event without dying.(so let’s say “no” to that one. ) But I got credit, so I contributed to the event, which you imply we can’t) I have fought my way successfully through Disturbance in Brisban Wildlands, solo, which also requires that you use skills, target, attack, dodge, etc…(except jumping or ZA) effectively.(with my main and multiple alts) Yet I have trouble jumping. Maybe others will make it known that they have a similar mis-match in aptitudes/proficiencies. Not that you’ll believe them, or anything.

Thanks again for putting in the time and effort to make the nice screen shots with helpful arrows. Maybe they’ll help some of us.

This thread is getting tedious. People on both sides are saying the same things over and over. It’s 15 pages long, and no Anet comments.

re: If they aren’t willing to champion removing every aspect that people don’t want to do that is unrelated to what they do want to do, then they shouldn’t expect special treatment. – But this thread is only about jumping(and the “jump-like” Zephyrite Aspects). I agree with what you said about dungeons and PvP. But this thread isn’t for that topic. Post on those subjects would be off topic.

re: <on topic> removing every aspect that people don’t want to do – Once again(for what seems like the billionth time) We don’t want all jumping and/or ZA removed. We just want them to be optional.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Misrepresenting a product as something different than it is would be misrepresentation or false advertising.

Okay.

Experience a new kind of high-impact, fast-paced combat. Attack on the move, dodge and roll away from enemy blows, team up with other players, and take advantage of environmental weapons to dominate the battlefield!

Combat in Guild Wars 2 is flexible, fast-paced, and dynamic. You’ll achieve victory through timing, dodging, and quick thinking, not immobile number-crunching.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/

They’re clearly representing it as fast-paced and reflex-based.

re: " I have difficulty jumping" = “I want to stand in one place and hit one button over and over” – This is obviously wrong.

That’s not what I was referring to. I was referring to you saying it wasn’t a reflex-based, actiony game.

re: dodging and jumping are the same thing, if you can dodge, you can jump. – Once again this is obviously wrong.

I didn’t say that, though. That, again, was in response to it being reflex-based. The jumps, as shown by my screenshots, are clearly not reflex-based or precise in any way, as a majority of the platforms are actually quite large and you have a huge margin of error.

Thanks again for putting in the time and effort to make the nice screen shots with helpful arrows. Maybe they’ll help some of us.

If it helps somebody out, great. If it helps someone prove the point of why the jumps are particularly difficult, even better.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: If they aren’t willing to champion removing every aspect that people don’t want to do that is unrelated to what they do want to do, then they shouldn’t expect special treatment. – But this thread is only about jumping(and the “jump-like” Zephyrite Aspects). I agree with what you said about dungeons and PvP. But this thread isn’t for that topic. Post on those subjects would be off topic.

Which would be why I didn’t go any further into that than was brought up.

re: <on topic> removing every aspect that people don’t want to do – Once again(for what seems like the billionth time) We don’t want all jumping and/or ZA removed. We just want them to be optional.

Semantics. If you look at the entire paragraph instead of condensing it to the one line, you’ll see that I don’t even say that the aspects I don’t like should be entirely removed. Just optional. I’d be super happy if they made dungeon gear optionally available with karma or gold, and WvW be optional and separate from PVE exploration. When I say “removed”, I am referring more to the “mandatory” portion of them being removed, not the entirety.

@Raenzjar, Elden Arnaas and everyone who agrees with them…

just one thought: what if people who only play an hour a week only play story missions / mandatory stuff? What if these people really enjoy some new gameplay-mechanics like the Zephyrite crystals? They basically share Anet’s idea of what’s fun. What would you tell them?

Wow, although I applaud Anet for deleting much of the condescending, insulting, and downright mean posts to “us anti-jumpers”, I wish they’d not compiled all threads started into this mess of a thread. I don’t recall anywhere in the previous threads where those of us who were disappointed to learn that LS2 would only be accessible thru jumping asked for it to be taken out, only asked that it perhaps not be timed or if there would be an alternative path to take into consideration the real limitations of some players. And, no one was asking for sympathy, just explaining our views concerning forced “timed” jumping in the LS 2 and why certain content may be skipped by some. I’m a deliberate and slow jumper who struggles with timed jumps (not dodging or combat) Personally, I would not care if they added 100 JP’s to the game, but I’d love some new dungeons.

To Filiha I cannot prove to you which jumps are difficult, because they all are for myself personally. Unless you want photos of dead players <g>. If you want to challenge yourself, I suggest you cover one eye with a patch and the screen with vellum, add to that 40 years (along with the lack of sharp reflexes), pain using your hands and the anxiety of not knowing where to go. Not sure what you meant by circular assertions. BTW, PVP has nothing to do with map completion, it is WvW.

To Elden, Teofa and Raenzjar, and others – I appreciate your pleading the case of LS2 jumping, and am sorry for the abuse you received in this thread by others who cannot possible see anyone’s point but their own.

And, before someone complains about Anet shouldn’t have to cave to “casual” players, I’d hardly call someone with 6k hrs., 12- 80’s (3 on their way) , 9k AP, who’s done every dungeon at least once (COE 100’s of times) in 18 months, and gotten the gift of battle the “hard way”, casual.

Thank you to those who have re-affirmed my lack of faith in humanity. My consolation is that you will all be old one day and perhaps wiser.

BTW,PVP has absolutely NOTHING to do with map completion, WvW does.

re: what if people who only play an hour a week only play story missions / mandatory stuff? What if these people really enjoy some new gameplay-mechanics like the Zephyrite crystals? – Why does to have to be either/or? any significant content should support multiple play styles. Anet should be making content with broad appeal, that a large cross-section of customers can play. If they don’t, they’ll lose customers.

As a side note, after hours and many deaths I finished the “Gates of Maguuma” cheeve, but skipping the rest for the aforementioned reasons. Besides, I have many costumes to make for my children & gs for Comic Con in Sept. Farewell!

This game has standard pve, wvw, pvp, dungeons, fractals, activities, and living story. There is plenty to do in the game, if jumping is a big issue, and you feel betrayed because someone didn’t warn you about living story season 2 two years ago, and because jumping and aspects now is a thing you feel you should not have to do, then perhaps you should try one of the non-jumping games instead.

I do say this to offend you – that is not my intention and if you feel offended then I apologise – I simply mean that none of us like all games.

Personally I like the aspects, and I think that they use them in this part of living story because it is the zephyrite crash site. I doubt that the rest of the story will rely on aspects, we will just have to wait and see.

dkspins.4670:

I cannot prove to you which jumps are difficult, because they all are for myself personally. Unless you want photos of dead players <g>. If you want to challenge yourself, I suggest you cover one eye with a patch and the screen with vellum, add to that 40 years (along with the lack of sharp reflexes), pain using your hands and the anxiety of not knowing where to go. Not sure what you meant by circular assertions. BTW, PVP has nothing to do with map completion, it is WvW.

If you’re playing with the equivalent of one eye, vellum over the screen, being 70 years old, pain in your hands, bad reflexes, and “anxiety of not knowing where to go” (not quite sure what you mean by that), then is it really jumping that’s the issue?

Wouldn’t the issue really be any content that requires you to… I don’t know, be active and quick? Shouldn’t Marionette and Assault Knights/Prime Hologram/Scarlet herself also have been problems since, according to your list of problems, it seems that avoiding their various insta-down attacks should have been very painful for you, if not impossible?

In fact, shouldn’t the combat content in this itself cause you problems? Especially the Aerin fight, since you need to be on your toes and mobile to not get blown off the side.

Also, none of those jumps I posted pictures of really require any real speed or quick movement. You don’t need to rapidly whip around and line things up in a second. A majority of them, you would do the jump from right on top of the crystal, allowing you all the time you need to prepare. The ones that require multiple jumps, you are granted plenty of time to get up to the top, and most can be done by pushing against the wall and just hitting the 1 button, when you’ll land on the next platform easily.

Circular assertions are when the anti-jumpers say “The jumps are hard because they’re hard.” There’s no reason given why they’re hard. There’s no mention of which are hard.

And WVW is PVP. PVP is, by definition, player versus player. Just because they have a different portion of the game called PVP instead doesn’t mean WVW is not PVP.

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

Semantics/ I don’t even say that the aspects I don’t like should be entirely removed. – The paragraph I quoted was stronger than the paragraph you were paraphrasing.(or whatever) So you were saying to spikyblackhair, “You can believe that if you want to, but I don’t.”?

re: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/ They’re clearly representing it as fast-paced and reflex-based. – Well, someone found something from Anet that does seem to tie reflex type stuff into the core game mechanics. Why isn’t more stuff like that in the press releases and promos? Reflex stuff is under-represented in their promo material. And jumping definitely is. And the ZA stuff was certainly never represented as something that would be crucial. And we want to address the gating of mainstream content with jumping and ZA moves. Why can’t this stuff be optional?

re: Circular assertions are when the anti-jumpers say “The jumps are hard because they’re hard.” There’s no reason given why they’re hard. – This has been explained. How is it you can’t believe that everyone is different, with different skills sets and aptitudes. With different advantages and disadvantages. Even identical twins have their differences. And just because someone is proficient in one thing doesn’t mean that they must be similarly proficient in another, seemingly related thing. Also, people are uncomfortable discussing their shortcomings, especially on an internet forum full of strangers. So no, there aren’t lots of people flocking to take you up on your screen shot offer, which is actually pretty recent. Maybe some people will take your offer.(Thanks again for those screen shots with help arrows. That took some time and effort, and is appreciated.)

re: To Elden, Teofa and Raenzjar, and others – I appreciate your pleading the case of LS2 jumping – You’re welcome. We’re just trying to stand up for people that we think are being hurt by these design choices. It’s nice to be appreciated, though. But you make me feel guilty for not thanking the people who have supported and defended my position, and me personally, in this thread.

re: sorry for the abuse you received in this thread by others who cannot possible see anyone’s point but their own. – I can’t speak for the others. But as for me, think nothing of it. I’m an outspoken old war horse, I’m used to it. Thank you for your sympathy.

I just don’t see why the pro-jumping people seem to think it’s a crime for people to be different, and like different things, and be good or bad at different things. Jumping isn’t for everyone. And regardless of reflex content, (which IMO has been under-represented in promotional and other material) Jumping and ZA jumping have not been represented as mandatory, and should not be used to gate mainstream content. Why would you deliberately restrict your target audience for LS S2?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

Semantics/ I don’t even say that the aspects I don’t like should be entirely removed. – The paragraph I quoted was stronger than the paragraph you were paraphrasing.(or whatever) So you were saying to spikyblackhair, “You can believe that if you want to, but I don’t.”?

I’m not sure if you were referring to me with that comment then, since what I said to spikyblackhair included the following:

Dungeons are unrelated to me dressing up pretty. So dungeons should not be a necessity for me filling up my wardrobe, right? I want to explore the map, but I don’t want to PVP. PVP is unrelated to my completion of the map, so it should be removed as a necessity, right?

In the same paragraph where I use the word “remove”, I further clarify “removed as a necessity”.

Well, someone found something from Anet that does seem to tie reflex type stuff into the core game mechanics. Why isn’t more stuff like that in the press releases and promos? Reflex stuff is under-represented in their promo material. And jumping definitely is. And the ZA stuff was certainly never represented as something that would be crucial. And we want to address the gating of mainstream content with jumping and ZA moves. Why can’t this stuff be optional?

Which promo material? I mean, it’s right on their website under the initial information that one could reasonably expect any new potential player to check out. If you wanted to know what the game is like, why would you not check the first-party website and the information about the game contained therein?

And of course the ZA stuff wasn’t represented as something important. It probably didn’t exist at the time it was written, and certainly wasn’t even near to permanent when it was. However, all MMOs need to evolve. Expecting core mechanics now to be the same as core mechanics in two years is expecting stagnation.

This has been explained. How is it you can’t believe that everyone is different, with different skills sets and aptitudes. With different advantages and disadvantages.

You’re still misrepresenting what I’m saying. I can believe that everyone is different. I had to do the jumping puzzle for my significant other because she was having difficulty with it. I know firsthand that not everyone can do the jumping. However, and you’re using the circular assertions yourself here, “being different” doesn’t inherently mean “these jumps are difficult”. That was the purpose of my posting the pictures. I want to know which of those jumps are difficult, and what makes them difficult. So, I would imagine, would Anet need to know. They can’t just refit their game based on vague complaints of difficulty. A specific “Jump A is hard because X” gives them a solid thing to look at and go, “Hm, maybe we could do Y so that Jump A doesn’t have X limiting it any more” without just slapping bridges everywhere to make their new content essentially irrelevant.

Also, people are uncomfortable discussing their shortcomings, especially on an internet forum full of strangers. So no, there aren’t lots of people flocking to take you up on your screen shot offer. Which is actually pretty recent, maybe some people will take your offer

Which, unfortunately for those people, hurts their own request rather than helping. You especially, as well as others, continue to point out that “Just because you can’t do A doesn’t mean you can’t do B”. Which is correct. But did you stop to question why you keep reiterating that? It’s because people who don’t have the difficulties are not going to be able to understand why you can’t if all you offer is vague complaints. dkspins very kindly took the time to list some specific issues which cause difficulty with the jumping. But looking at those issues, it leads to the follow-up question that you like to confront: If you can’t do this jumping due to poor reflexes or hand pain, how were you able to do the previous content which required good reflexes and quick hands in order to not get exploded, stomped, stabbed, or zapped?

And you know what? Anet is going to ask that same question. Probably not in this thread because so far, the majority of responses to that question are “Just because you can’t do A doesn’t mean you can’t do B” without reasons why. So they’re going to ask themselves that question. They’re going to go look at their jumps, and they’re going to see what we “easy jumpers” see. Short jumps with a realistic amount of space to land on requiring little precision or reflexive movement. That’s going to lead them to ask themselves, “Well, if our players need a bridge to get across this short jump because they can’t make it by jumping, will they be able to fight this boss that requires twice the reflexive movement?”

IMO, a lot of this conflict could be avoided if we simply knew whether people could start LS S2 episode 2, without having completed episode 1. And how much more of LS S2 the problematic (for some of us) Zephyrite Aspects will be in.

Filaha.1678:

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

Marionette was a fight, and I am capable of dodging, moving correctly, and fighting. The jumps in the new LS 2 are much harder for me, partially because of not knowing exactly where to go being a new area and yes, the timed aspects added to the difficulty.

dkspins.4670:

Filaha.1678:

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

Marionette was a fight, and I am capable of dodging, moving correctly, and fighting. The jumps in the new LS 2 are much harder for me, partially because of not knowing exactly where to go being a new area and yes, the timed aspects added to the difficulty.

So for argument’s sake, let’s say they removed the timer and made it so that you had as much time as you wanted to make the jumps. Would that make it easy, then? Then you wouldn’t have to be concerned about not knowing where to go, as you could take the time to plan out your course.

Filaha.1678:

dkspins.4670:

Filaha.1678:

dkspins.4670:

Actually, I did the Marionette quite often without dying, the Hologram not as well, but doable depending on the group. The Aerin fight was horrible, but was completed. And, I loved the Bazaar of the Four Winds where the aspects were based on # of charges and not timed. I’m still in my 60’s, but learning new things is important, at least to me. When I stop learning new things they can put me in the ground. <smile>

Okay, so this might sound rude, and I apologize if you take it that way, but it’s sincerely an honest question.

How?

What was it about Marionette that allowed you to stay alive, if not easily, moderately well, yet the jumps (which, again, most of the jumps start from right on top of a crystal which gives you more than enough time to even miss a few jumps) cause a big issue?

Because from my experience with Marionette, most of the fights required you to position yourself constantly and be ready to evade attacks at a moment’s notice. How were you able to do that, but not these jumps?

Also, I take it from your mention of the Bazaar that you would be more acceptable of this content if the crystals only had the limitation of charges, rather than have a timer?

Marionette was a fight, and I am capable of dodging, moving correctly, and fighting. The jumps in the new LS 2 are much harder for me, partially because of not knowing exactly where to go being a new area and yes, the timed aspects added to the difficulty.

So for argument’s sake, let’s say they removed the timer and made it so that you had as much time as you wanted to make the jumps. Would that make it easy, then? Then you wouldn’t have to be concerned about not knowing where to go, as you could take the time to plan out your course.

Yes, it would be much easier. And, I do appreciate your screenshots – will be referring to them for my alts.

And of course the ZA stuff wasn’t represented as something important – And it still hasn’t been. Yet there it is, a road block at the beginning of LS S2.(for some of us)

Which promo material? – Whatever material. The fact remains, that people who evidently aren’t supposed to be playing this game have bought it and are playing it. I played original GW with a group of friends, and we followed the news about GW2. And though none of us tried to seek out every single detail, we were IMO, well aware of the majority of the news. Though I’ll tell you that I tend to not watch videos, I’d rather read an article. It didn’t seem to us (and evidently others) that this game was going to be significantly more console-like in play style. Hype is hype, and absolutely everything is “dynamic” and “action oriented”. You have to be able cut through the hype and know what’s real.

re: Expecting core mechanics now to be the same as core mechanics in two years is expecting stagnation. – Not necessarily, you can add new content and keep things fresh without new features.(creativity can save you a lot of R&D money) You also want to avoid feature creep. And you have to keep the original system requirements in mind. Yes, you can write up and distribute a new system requirement spec. But some customers are always going to say “It used to run on this/work with this/be compatible with this.” And they’ll try it anyway.(or complain that you raised your spec, or both) You need to balance adding features/capability with how many problems you’re going to cause for your customer base. Your tech support department doesn’t work for free. And bad PR can be damaging.
And it would much better to have new mechanics properly integrated into the whole, rather that as a tacked-on seeming gimmick. I’d rather they took the time and worked ZA into something that more integrated, that works more seamlessly.

re: I want to know which of those jumps are difficult, and what makes them difficult. – So you are trying to help people. Thank you. But that’s a very technical, thorough process. (no offense to you, but) And I think it would be better handled by Anet employees contacting people individually. A lot of people probably don’t even realize why it’s difficult. Should they try to explain it to strangers on a public internet forum? I think it would work better in a one on one with an Anet employee. Someone who knows the game mechanics and the process behind them, and can help those people to work through the nature of their difficulties.
I know that my eyes don’t seem to always follow where the jump is supposed to end up, so as someone else mentioned I sometimes “don’t know where to I’m supposed to go”. And while I have working depth perception IRL, I don’t always judge distances properly in-game. Do I know why I have or what causes either of these issues? No. Also, the camera movement is an issue for a some people in this.(as well as in other things) IRL, I don’t need to see things as much.(for some reason) I can walk somewhere and do something else at the same time without having to pay strict and constant attention to what specifically I’m doing and where everything is. I can have my vision/awareness blocked for short durations IRL, and I can still predict and imagine what’s going on enough to complete the action until vision/awareness is restored. But in GW2, when the camera goes nuts and I can’t see, it bothers me a lot, and it makes it difficult to perform whatever action I’m trying to do. I only know the things I’ve just related because I sat for a while and thought about them. Timers always make me feel rushed and uncomfortable. I don’t care if they would put 15 minutes on the ZA timer, I still wouldn’t feel the same was as if it was just charges.(like before) Also obvious is my lack of physical dexterity and hand-eye coordination.(Within normal range, but low) So does that give you some picture of what this is like for me? And that’s not all of it, just a lot of the things that generally apply to the situation as a whole. It would be too much info to be put on the forums. And, didn’t you do this with your significant other?(rhetorical) What did that person have to say?(rhetorical, no need to actually answer) And why didn’t that help you to understand what these other people were going through?(Once again, not trying to pry – these are rhetorical questions. I’m just wondering, if you live with someone who finds these same things difficult, why you don’t understand it more?) But thank you again for making significant effort to understand the jumping difficulties and help people with them.

re: screen shots with helpful arrows – Thank you yet again for these. I was taking very wrong paths on some of the jumps.

re: #9 – I swear this one looks like “I jump on the head of my giant lizard, then up on the rock shelf.”

Raenzjar.4210:

Bubi.7942:

Raenzjar.4210:

I do hope you make a video, though. As I have NO doubt, it can help players out. And yes, helping out someone is kinda totally awesome. Just ask the friendly portal popping Mesmers about it. Friendly request: no loud music. ;-]

Just got a game capture program for the first time, so I’m on it, jsut have to learn how to use it.

Fast forwarding: Bubi.7942 videochannel, the place to be all things GW2 related!

Great stuff, hope you enjoy the learning curve intensely and get to make some nice videos! Thanks for taking this step! You rock!

After a few days of not being home and a tiring fight with google+ and youtube (oh man) I finally managed to get the video done and upload it.

Excuse me for:
- My english
- My accent
- Quality
- Etc.

This is the very first video I have ever done, let alone upload.

Here it is, I hope it helps to get to the instances:

I still wonder why people think that they should cater to the anti-jumping part of the community, but at the same time they seems to be totally cool with required fighting, required puzzle solving and other required things that there might very well be people that dislike as well.

ArenaNet should cater to the largest group when opinions differ. Simple as that. If they start catering to minorities they might end up losing loads of people which might end up killing the game.

I find it highly annoying that people want to lower the game skill denominator even further. Seriously? There are many things to do in this game. Hell, we had A LOT of jumping LIVING STORY content in before. I feel absolutely no pity for people who are unable to perform the mandatory 3-4 jumps in this release.

If you cant, then you are not supposed to finish it

On the other hand, we can discuss tastes about puzzles and platforming, but do not mix apples and oranges. Not liking it and not being able to do it are two separate things.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: what if people who only play an hour a week only play story missions / mandatory stuff? What if these people really enjoy some new gameplay-mechanics like the Zephyrite crystals? – Why does to have to be either/or? any significant content should support multiple play styles. Anet should be making content with broad appeal, that a large cross-section of customers can play. If they don’t, they’ll lose customers.

(to quote a person you just have to press the arrow-button on the bottom right of their post. This would make replies to posts much easier to read. Thank you)

So you’re saying they should include alternative paths which could be traversed without jumps/use of crystals? I don’t think this would be a good idea, and I’m telling you why. If you can choose between a safe path and a dangerous path, and the dangerous path would have no reward for taking the risk, people would skip this path all the time.

Imho this happens a lot in this game already:

• Legendaries can be bought instead of having everyone to finish map completion / battle tokens and dungeon gifts.
• Traits can be bought instead of taking on the challenge
  etc.

it’s the credo: play as you want, that is repeated every time I see this. But does it do only good? I really think it doesn’t. People who take the difficult road feel betrayed. The reward doesn’t feel so special any more.

You run the difficult path, die maybe 6 times and finally reach the end where others who took the easy road wait for you. They are asking you: “Was it worth it?” Looking at my damaged armor, nothing to show off that I really made it on my own,… I don’t think it was.

Filaha, as an answer to you post about jumps I personally found challenging: those are screenshots 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13 and 15. Not impossible, mind. But I do get vertigo when doing the jumps, and I don’t have the best hand-eye coordination to begin with.

On a different note, I find it puzzling how people don’t understand that some things are simply difficult, sometimes plain impossible to other people. Do you jump (ha. ha.) in the face of a dyslexic person with “just LEARN it!” ? Or, again from a personal point of view: my own spatial thinking is above average, my mathematical logical reasoning is fair but give me a simple arithmetic problem and I have NO clue. Really. 13+17 = purple aliens rabbit because oranges. I have learned though, to always (when it counts) to whip out a calculator… or otherwise say “42” – most people find that amusing.

^ Well to be fair people with dyslexia CAN learn to read and write.

The main issue people have is that the OP and other anti-jumpers seems to be under the impression that ArenaNet should cater the game specifically for them, rather than for the majority.

no, that is NOT what we want. We want the content to be optional. The jumps I listed above are all MANDATORY.

People with dyslexia indeed CAN learn to read and write. That does not mean that they enjoy doing it once they’ve learned and most of the time they choose a job where reading and writing is not a core part of the job. Which doesn’t mean that they can’t be highly performing members of the society: My mom’s only mildly dyslexic but she rather enjoys numbers – she’s an accountant. She does not read books, she does not read newspapers… but she does listen to the radio and audiobooks, she watches TV, she talks to people…

seriously, why would people do things they don’t enjoy if there was a way around it? I mean, we all do things we don’t necessarily want to do (such as get up in the morning to go to work) but we do it anyways because the reward we get is worth the trouble. If the trouble gets more annoying than the reward is worth… well then, we find another way. If we can.