Guild Wars 2

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

So you’re telling me that you have a problem with the jumping parts but no problem with the quite challenging battle parts?

I did not even get to the battle parts in the new zone, as the aspects mostly ran out of time before I could position my char and press a button.

As for general gameplay: I main a LB ranger due to my “limitations”. This allows me to mostly keep my char at one spot, so I can press buttons for attacks. And as I said before somewhere: I’ll doubletab forward for a Healing Spring rather easy.

There’s a difference between general gameplay and (forced upon) jumping on small ledges, or bamboo – as some experienced jumpers have complained about.

The above is also intended for Xenon.4537, about the disparity and other stuff s/ he wrote.

I’m suggesting they are completely able to do it, they are just unwilling due to laziness and/or personal feelings.

You do know what they say about people and their opinions? I do actually try beating my “limitations”. Even in the open world, regularly jumping on/ off rocks and stuff. Do not call me lazy and/ or unwilling, thank you.

@Ashen.2907

I wouldn’t mind seeing the data to support the, “most,” and, “quite a lot.”

Based upon the reactions from players on this very forum here, which you maybe have read also, in the topics about the whole jumping stuff. I do not speak for others.

@Hka.3942
Thank you for your kind offer! Both you and Lio (and others!) are totally awesome for offering help!

well new idea that wouldn’t break immersion like the rainbow-clouds: Anet puts in a golem-battlesuit for disabled people which auto-runs/jumps the way through the jumping sections

< Edit- Oops, the thread merge made this get misplaced so it isn’t under the post I was replying to.>
Thank you for summing up the number of jumps and where they occur. But your assessment “Everyone can do this it’s just a button press .” is off base. It isn’t just a matter of pressing a button. Anyone can see it’s more complex than that.(except you?) You also seem to believe that everyone can do everything equally well, and that everyone likes all the same things. This is not the case.
Thanks again for the good jumping summary of the zone.

Raenzjar.4210:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

So you’re telling me that you have a problem with the jumping parts but no problem with the quite challenging battle parts?

I did not even get to the battle parts in the new zone, as the aspects mostly ran out of time before I could position my char and press a button.

As for general gameplay: I main a LB ranger due to my “limitations”. This allows me to mostly keep my char at one spot, so I can press buttons for attacks. And as I said before somewhere: I’ll doubletab forward for a Healing Spring rather easy.

There’s a difference between general gameplay and (forced upon) jumping on small ledges, or bamboo – as some experienced jumpers have complained about.

The above is also intended for Xenon.4537, about the disparity and other stuff s/ he wrote.

I’m suggesting they are completely able to do it, they are just unwilling due to laziness and/or personal feelings.

You do know what they say about people and their opinions? I do actually try beating my “limitations”. Even in the open world, regularly jumping on/ off rocks and stuff. Do not call me lazy and/ or unwilling, thank you.

@Ashen.2907

I wouldn’t mind seeing the data to support the, “most,” and, “quite a lot.”

Based upon the reactions from players on this very forum here, which you maybe have read also, in the topics about the whole jumping stuff. I do not speak for others.

@Hka.3942
Thank you for your kind offer! Both you and Lio (and others!) are totally awesome for offering help!

Okay, another handicapped person here. My right hand is paralyzed, and it was my primary, so I’m forced to play off-hand only. Yes, I play Guild Wars 2 with my left hand ONLY. I use a touchpad (external Logitech) and keyboard on a very good i7 PC.

I have bucket loads of achievements (I honestly don’t care to chase’m all), have 100% map completion on my main, and 3 level 80s. 95% or my 2500 hours have been played without my right hand.

I despised jumping puzzles since before my injury. I want to play an MMO, not a platformer.

So… I strongly dislike the required jumping puzzles in the new zone. They were a major frustration, it took me six hours to get past them at the start point.

If ANet shoves jumping puzzles down my throat again, locking major content behind them, I may find another game.

I hated the jumping. Especially with the aspects..

The aspects weren’t that bad except the fact they expire so fast. Usually you can take your time in most jumping in this game, but here you have to do swaths in one fell swoop.

Why do people continue to expect the game to be designed around conditions it isn’t designed for. Specifically, poor framerates (which are a symptom of your hardware, or a bug in rendering code) or latency (which is a symptom of your poor connection speed, and Arenanet’s decision not to locate a hub that would provide you with a playable connection)

The issues people have with the limited, simply jumping in dry top either fall in to the “I don’t like jumping” camp, or the “I can’t jump because my client doesn’t work properly” camp.

For those in the first camp: The amount of crystal work required to access content is minimal and easy. I’m sure there are other things in the open world everyone doesn’t like. I hate that the devourers have autohit life leeches for instance. It’s not as if you have to perform some death defying super-hard jumping puzzle just to get through the zone.

For those in the second camp: The problem isn’t with the design of the content, it’s either your computer, your connection, or arenanet’s backend not supporting your configuration. If you have framerate issues on a machine that shouldn’t have them, you should be complaining about the bugs in the rendering code that cause that. If you have latency issues because you live in a place that isn’t well served by anet’s server locations, you should be complaining about that.

However, if you simply have slow hardware or a bad connection, don’t demand the game be designed around your sub-optimal situation. The game is designed to work within certain constraints of processing, GPU, and connection speed. If you don’t meet those requirements because of your rig or connecton, the game isn’t the problem, you are. If you don’t meet those requirements because the game IS the problem then it isn’t the content, it’s the backend.

In either case your “some people can’t do the content so it shouldn’t be there” is a flawed argument. The content works well for people that meet the expected user conditions, and the expected user conditions are the design target for any game.

re: In either case your “some people can’t do the content so it shouldn’t be there” is a flawed argument. – I haven’t seen anyone saying that jumping, or Zephyrite Aspects should be taken out of GW2.(Though I may not have actually seen it. There are a lot of posts about this.) What we’ve generally been saying, is “Please don’t make Zephyrite Aspects required to progress in mainstream content.”. I think that there should be all kinds of optional jumping/Zephyrite achievements for those who like, and can do that sort of thing. But please don’t make Zephyrite jumping mandatory, especially in the first part of the new zone. This gives people the wrong impression,(that this sort of jumping will be required throughout the map) and makes it hard/impossible for them to progress in the new content. And that is probably the source of much of the strife related to this topic, the way the starting section of the new zone was designed.

As a friend pointed out to me, Anet is not going to remove them (aspect skills), at best they MIGHT remove or increase the Aspect Skill timers. MAYBE. If they do, it will happen in a week or so, after most have either finished the LS or decided to give it a pass. Testing, etc will take time.

Sad part is in places where players hang out, they are saying they aren’t interested in a new JP. The new area is more than a new JP. But, word of mouth has all but killed it.

I’m so turned around by this all, I don’t even know how I feel about it anymore. Can we have the festival back please.. LOL Hey, people are asking for the impossible, so…

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: In either case your “some people can’t do the content so it shouldn’t be there” is a flawed argument. – I haven’t seen anyone saying that jumping, or Zephyrite Aspects should be taken out of GW2.(Though I may not have actually seen it. There are a lot of posts about this.) What we’ve generally been saying, is “Please don’t make Zephyrite Aspects required to progress in mainstream content.”. I think that there should be all kinds of optional jumping/Zephyrite achievements for those who like, and can do that sort of thing. But please don’t make Zephyrite jumping mandatory, especially in the first part of the new zone. This gives people the wrong impression,(that this sort of jumping will be required throughout the map) and makes it hard/impossible for them to progress in the new content. And that is probably the source of much of the strife related to this topic, the way the starting section of the new zone was designed.

That’s exactly the type of post I’m addressing though. The zeph crystals required just for progression, assumung you are playing under expected conditions (no crazy lag or low framerate issues) aren’t even remotely challenging, but they do allow the zone to be designed in a way that fits a very specific aesthetic. I agree that it would be bad for to introduce a series of complex timed jumps that require a great deal of skill to get throguh, but that’s not how it was implemented. it’s literally a handfull of zeph crystals set up as a tutorial so players not familiar with them know what they do.

The posts complaining about it are kneejerk reactions like “i shouldn’t have to do a JP” when the reality of it is that it’s not asking you to do a JP as much as it’s asking you do do a simple jump. They’re not what anyone would consider difficult jumps, leaps, or blinks until you get to optional content like achievements. The only people that can’t complete those simple actions are players who have framerate or lag issues which are completely unrelated to the content itself

People seem to use the arguments about this locking access to the Living Story, which it didn’t before.

Didn’t you play at Cutthroat Politics? That was very much part of the Living Story and it required you to get to the very top of the Sanctum. How come that wasn’t a problem (it actually required way more jumping and “skill” than the new map).

lordkrall.7241:

People seem to use the arguments about this locking access to the Living Story, which it didn’t before.

Didn’t you play at Cutthroat Politics? That was very much part of the Living Story and it required you to get to the very top of the Sanctum. How come that wasn’t a problem (it actually required way more jumping and “skill” than the new map).

I was in a hospital during Cutthroat politics, so I didn’t play it. Had I been able to play, I would have strongly objected to any mandatory jumping puzzles.

Well most people that complain here have constantly stated that before this release it was always optional and did not hinder progression of the story, which is rather clearly totally false.

I personally hate jumping…..even the bf laughs at me when I try. Just not coordinated enough. But, I am enjoying the new zone, go figure. I died so many times yesterday falling off a missed jump (laughing all the way too). Enabling my fall damage trait did help alot.

lordkrall.7241:

Well most people that complain here have constantly stated that before this release it was always optional and did not hinder progression of the story, which is rather clearly totally false.

I found jumping puzzles irritating in the personal story, especially the one in Lornar’s Pass where you have to balance-jump while avoiding cross wind. Beat it, hated it.

HOWEVER, I just did an experiment. I just took my second character into Dry Top. Got thru the initial jumping puzzle in five minutes. Surprised the heck out of me.

So I guess even a one-handed cripple can beat that jumping puzzle.

It still doesn’t make me LIKE jumping games that aren’t optional.

re: Well most people that complain here have constantly stated that before this release it was always optional and did not hinder progression of the story, which is rather clearly totally false. – Oh, so this is the second time this has happened, not the first, and that obviously makes the whole argument invalid?- that’s laughable.
But it makes the point that too many people just skipped it and didn’t complain about it the first time. Obviously, we need to work much harder to make our dissatisfaction known this time around.
Please do not limit our progression in mainstream content with excessive jumping or Zephyite Ascpects. Please make these game elements optional. You are alienating part of your customer base making this type of game play mandatory.

For those that insist that this doesn’t limit your progression in the Living Story – How can you continue if you can’t reach the NPC’s? How can you continue if you can’t make the jumps in the story instances?

And it was especially unfortunate that the way the first part of the map is set up makes it look like the whole map will be a jumping puzzle, making extensive use of the Zephyrite Aspects.(Which not true, but it does make it appear that way.)

How did you complete the Personal Story especially if you went with Priory?

I love jumping, and I love the Aspects.

However, I don’t like they’re such a big element for the zone. I miss parts where they aren’t necessary. But well, the zone is pretty small, so I guess the real problem is it needed to have more space, space without Aspects, with just classic gameplay.

Variety is the best, focusing too much around a mechanic isn’t.

And for that you need more space, of course.

re: How did you complete the Personal Story especially if you went with Priory? – I didn’t choose the Priory. Thank you for letting us know that’s a bad choice for people with jumping difficulties.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: How did you complete the Personal Story especially if you went with Priory? – I didn’t choose the Priory. Thank you for letting us know that’s a bad choice for people with jumping difficulties.

You missed the point.

There have been stuff like this (and much worse) in “required places” since release, so why is it suddenly an issue now?

lordkrall.7241:

How did you complete the Personal Story especially if you went with Priory?

I beat the puzzle with much cussing on my main. Not fun.

I have a level 42 asura whose stuck on it right now. I may not finish the personal story with him.

Sytherek.7689:

HOWEVER, I just did an experiment. I just took my second character into Dry Top. Got thru the initial jumping puzzle in five minutes. Surprised the heck out of me.

So I guess even a one-handed cripple can beat that jumping “puzzle”.

so much to that, weren’t we saying that all along?

re: There have been stuff like this (and much worse) in “required places” since release, so why is it suddenly an issue now? – As I said, I didn’t choose the Priory, so I didn’t know. There have been(IMO) difficult parts in the game for me, stuff involving core mechanics. But this is incorporation of a new mechanic, which IMO is more awkward to use than the core mechanics.(You have to pick up a crystal to use the skill, use it to make all your jumps within 15 seconds, there are crystals where you can pick them up accidentally in combat and lose your weapons skills, etc…) So I think it’s a new issue, really.
But you bring up a good point, that jumping and other mechanics not traditionally part of a high fantasy MMO are intruding more and more into the game. Those of us who have jumping issues and issues with the Zephyrite Apsect definitely need to make our issues known. And this thread is the place to do it. Perhaps if we had complained before, maybe Anet would have made alternative routes to progress in Living Story Season 2.

re: So I guess even a one-handed cripple can beat that jumping “puzzle”/so much to that, weren’t we saying that all along? – He said that to encourage others, not to make our point invalid.(which it doesn’t) And he states that he still doesn’t like non-optional jumping content. You neglected to include that part in your quote.(quoted below for accuracy)
So I guess even a one-handed cripple can beat that jumping puzzle.

It still doesn’t make me LIKE jumping games that aren’t optional.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Sytherek.7689:

HOWEVER, I just did an experiment. I just took my second character into Dry Top. Got thru the initial jumping puzzle in five minutes. Surprised the heck out of me.

So I guess even a one-handed cripple can beat that jumping “puzzle”.

so much to that, weren’t we saying that all along?

Just because I can do it doesn’t mean that I like doing it. Just because something is possible doesn’t mean it was fun.

Aspects, even in the cliffs, were incredible nags and certainly lessened the entertainment value. I recall posting my opinion a year ago that Aspects should be full time skills in the zone. For Dry Top, they certainly should be full time. Acting as a 3rd weapon swap we can rotate to. That would make jumping and exploring far more enjoyable and fun. Why the Dev’s doubled down on the annoyance factor of aspects, I do not understand.

Even story wise, full time aspects could have been explained. The Zephyrites, being in desperate need, pull out their special uber super X crystals for us to use. Ta-Da… easy enough solution.

Though the community, as usual, does come together to find solutions. Only a couple hrs after the patch went live I was porting around. If you are having a hard time, please ask for help in map chat. It’s not unusual to find plenty of help.

Raenzjar.4210:

@Ashen.2907

I wouldn’t mind seeing the data to support the, “most,” and, “quite a lot.”

Based upon the reactions from players on this very forum here, which you maybe have read also, in the topics about the whole jumping stuff. I do not speak for others.

This translates to, “I have no data that supports my claims regarding how, ‘most players,’ feel about jumping, etc.”

And claiming that, “most players,” dislike something and so on is speaking for them. Presenting your position without inventing facts will go much further to support it.

Xenon.4537:

Jumping puzzles is an innovation in the realm of MMOs.

We will have to agree to disagree here. I don’t consider adding a feature that has been used successfully in other products within the overall genre of computer games for decades to one’s own product to be particularly innovative.

Xenon.4537:

I believe the true issue here is people stamping “MMO” on GW2 and forcing it to be associated with expectations which limit the possibilities. The more people do this, the less GW2 can be different. People keep stamping their MMO expectations on GW2 instead of letting it try to be different and unique. Genres shouldn’t be like prisons.

An interesting opinion. I think that by indicating that they do not like platforming games even outside of MMOs some (many/most ?) of the anti-jumping respondents have demonstrated that it is not an element of, “this shouldn’t be in an MMO,” but rather a much more straightforward demonstration that they just don’t like this type of gameplay.

“I do not like platforming/jumping gameplay in any game,” is not the same as, “I do not like platforming/jumping gameplay in GW2 because GW2 is supposed to be an MMO.”

Ashen.2907:

Raenzjar.4210:

@Ashen.2907

I wouldn’t mind seeing the data to support the, “most,” and, “quite a lot.”

Based upon the reactions from players on this very forum here, which you maybe have read also, in the topics about the whole jumping stuff. I do not speak for others.

This translates to, “I have no data that supports my claims regarding how, ‘most players,’ feel about jumping, etc.”

And claiming that, most players," dislike something and so on is speaking for them. Presenting your position without inventing facts will go much further to support it.

This is what I wrote, and replied to, earlier:

Most players complete them even with the use of a friendly Mesmer, just to counter the whole jumping. Aside from that, there are, as it turns out, quite a lot of players who simply can not do them without the help of a friendly Mesmer. It’s not just about pressing the spacebar and having a stable connection.

I have no means to proof the chats I’ve had/ and seen in the 600+ days of playing GW2, with different players facing issues with jumping. Basically not possible to defend myself against the accusation of being a liar, as that is what you are suggesting here. As can be seen in the bolded part of your mesagge. Gee, thanks for that. Guess I now should hit the print screen button continually, for a possible future “discussion”?

It is the feedback I got out of random chats, but in this case, also from this forum. In case you didn’t notice, many arguments were brought as to the ‘why’ people have issues with the jumping. There are players who finish the jp’s by means of a portal from a friendly Mesmer, announcing it in mapchat or otherwise, like the people in this very thread, offering their help (which is totally awesome!)

Aside from that, there are, as it turns out, quite a lot of players who simply can not do them without the help of a friendly Mesmer.

Just have a good look at the many arguments brought upon in this thread, here. And the offers brought by friendly players.

That, is what I was pointing out. Though I shouldn’t have been, I was actually somewhat surprised to see there are so many, as can be read in this now merged 10-page thread. Players who have ignored most of the content, as it was optional to do them and now raise their concerns about the ‘jumping’ (not just the jp’s). And others kindly offering their personal quality gaming time, as to help out if/ when they can.

I’d like to ask you to click my name and read the first message I made in regards to this whole jumping stuff. Wait, I’ll help you out.

Having scars + scar tissue on my hand/ fingers jumping is near impossible. Having met players with Rheumatism and some with muscular disease, I’d like to thank Anet for excluding a zone once again. Fractals can not to be done, and now this zone.

Yes, jumping can be fun indeed (no sarcasm there).

Yes, indeed, I spoke for others also. You know why? After I got confronted with the issues in the new zone, they also came to mind. There’s this funny thing called Empathy.

So far: been called lazy/ unwilling and now even a liar. Awesome stuff!?

Maybe I should ask Anet as to provide data on how many players completed the jp’s themselves (solo) and by means of a portal. I’ve done like 10 myself, despite my “limitations”. As jp’s can -indeed- be fun, as I stated earlier.

Sidenote:
About the fractals I brought up. I’ve done 7. I truly love the content! But faced with the jumping there, specifically in one zone, I decided it would be too difficult playing the most misunderstood class in this game (Ranger) and slowing down my party members, due to my “limitations”. Plenty other stuff to do.

Personally, Jumping puzzles are some of my favourite content in this game.
I only have 1 left to do in the game, and would love more. I absolutely love that this zone has the aspects (and the jumps).. I really enjoyed the sanctum, between that, this zone with the awesome jumps, and SAB, those are my favourites so far.

Raenzjar,

You have a lot of convincing to do if you want me to believe that you have played or interacted with hundreds of thousands, or millions, of players over the course of your 600 days in the game. “Most players,” does not mean the relatively small percentage of the playerbase that you will have had the opportunity to interact with on this topic.

I dont like jumping puzzles either, but by claiming to speak for people youve never even interacted with you make your entire position look fabricated. I know that if I see that someone is blatantly making up or falsifying aspects of their argument it makes the entire argument suspect in my eyes. How can I possibly assume that they are being honest or accurate about aspect X of their position if they are clearly not being so about aspect Y ?

And no you do not need to start screenshotting your conversations because even if you did you wouldnt have the hundreds of thousands, perhaps more, that would encompass, “most players.”

Jumping puzzles can be fun extra content but don’t like how there becoming the main thing is some of these updates. I like platforming games but frankly this game just isn’t built for them and the design of the puzzles isn’t great especially the bamboo sticks jutting out everywhere. There is a big difference between what you actually see on the screen and what it actually is, you end up with the cam ridding up your characters kitten (especially if you are playing a charr or norn) and I don’t know if it’s me, maybe it’s from lag but the aspect skills are a bit buggy especially the lighting pull one. If I wanted to do lots of platforming I would play one of my games that was built for that.

I don’t think I’ve ever posted on forums, but I was about to post this and I saw there’s already a thread.

If ANET adds one more “dive” like the one in Dry Top, I’m done. I spent many hours obsessing over the Aetherblade diving platform, and now i’m spending hours going splat on this one.

Here’s the thing, achievements drive us to complete them, many of us have the OCD type, it’s part of why I like gaming. There’s clear cut goals.

The problem is, I spend the few hours I have a day to game on going splat because I want to fill that achievement square. I cannot stand it, these diving platforms are not fun. Yes I can go to Youtube to find the exact formula, otherwise, it’s the most painful trial and error and far from fun.

I mean it when I saw if I see more crap like this in the game I am done.

So Xerophyte, you’re complaining about a completely optional thing being hard? I bolded the important part.

I previously claimed that the zone required 1 jump only.

I am here to beg for your apology and forgiveness.

I redid the whole map again and it actually is 0. So go cry more about how hard it is.

Raenzjar,

You have a lot of convincing to do if you want me to believe that you have played or interacted with hundreds of thousands, or millions, of players over the course of your 600 days in the game. “Most players,” does not mean the relatively small percentage of the playerbase that you will have had the opportunity to interact with on this topic

Ah, I now get our issue here. I think.

No, i did not speak with ALL players. I shared my experiences/ observations. And likely have used a wrong form of communicating them, and so it got misinterpreted by you/ maybe others. Adding a “lame” excuse: English is not my native language.

I know that if I see that someone is blatantly making up or falsifying aspects of their argument it makes the entire argument suspect in my eyes.

Thanks for keeping a sharp eye, really! I’m not the type of guy making stuff up. I simply do not turn a blind eye towards issues ‘some of the player base’ encounter. Those I see as a whole, resulting in my ‘most players..this/ that’. Like now, with the jumping issues. Due to my “limitations” I can relate to the issues of others, to a certain degree, ofcourse…as my “limitations” are minor compared to others.

Hope this clears up things, even for a small bit.

Sometimes I despair

The original post did NOT advocate the removal of jumping in anyway at all the point of the post if you had taken the time to read it was that the poster was making a valid point about the use of jumping to carry on forward within the MMO fantasy side of the game whereas previously this was not the case and one could take it or leave it which ever your preference.

It is not as some would suggest a matter of practising so you can jump because if you dislike that aspect of the game previously you could leave it

nor, as some here have made it quite clear in vitriolic terms towards the poster and others who agree with him/her a case of laziness or stupidity. The lambasting of others who have a different opinion which is valid and doesn’t fit into the small boxes you have locked yourselves into is an unacceptable behaviour flaw.

At no time whatsoever has the poster or those who agree with him/her ever suggested that these functions should be removed and if you had read the post you would have understood that, unless of course comprehension is difficult for you, so there is no need to feel threatened by this.

In the normal world you will find people out there with differing opinions you must learn to deal with that in a polite and cordial manner instead of trying to bully others into your way of thinking, this is immature and unwise

So to recap:

The point that the original post made was the change in the play of GW2 making jumping a prerequisite to continue with the main story and play.

This is a valid point.

Spoofy.8239:

Sometimes I despair
So to recap:

The point that the original post made was the change in the play of GW2 making jumping a prerequisite to continue with the main story and play.

This is a valid point.

1. Current opening post doesn’t say that. It just says he doesn’t like jumping, because it’s “tiresome”.

2. Too bad that is not the case at all. It’s not a prerequisit. You don’t have to ‘jump’ a single time.

omg… guys, dont you realize that not everybody is able/wants to kill liadri? the same way not everybody is able/wants to do a jumping puzzle. So if you dont want to do a jumping puzzle, dont do it
If you want but you cant, improve your skills.
there is nothing else to say. stop complaining.

Silicato.4603:

So if you dont want to do a jumping puzzle, dont do it
If you want but you cant, improve your skills.
there is nothing else to say. stop complaining.

Totally missing the points which were brought up.

1.) it’s not really about jumping puzzles, but ‘jumping’ in general which is now forced upon players who have difficulties with that.
2.) it’s not just about not willing to improve jumping skills, but rather about not being able to jump, due to several “limitations”
3.) it’s not about complaining, but rather pointing out that the current state of the game, is locking players out.

Raenzjar.4210:

Totally missing the points which were brought up.

1.) it’s not really about jumping puzzles, but ‘jumping’ in general which is now forced upon players who have difficulties with that.
2.) it’s not just about not willing to improve jumping skills, but rather about not being able to jump, due to several “limitations”
3.) it’s not about complaining, but rather pointing out that the current state of the game, is locking players out.

And yet this have been the case for TWO YEARS how come it is suddenly such an issue?

Raenzjar.4210:

Totally missing the points which were brought up.

1.) it’s not really about jumping puzzles, but ‘jumping’ in general which is now forced upon players who have difficulties with that.
2.) it’s not just about not willing to improve jumping skills, but rather about not being able to jump, due to several “limitations”
3.) it’s not about complaining, but rather pointing out that the current state of the game, is locking players out.

1.) No it’s not / improve
2.) Please read the comments, most of them are pure lazy, like the opening post / improve
3.) No it’s not / improve

re: I previously claimed that the zone required 1 jump only/I redid the whole map again and it actually is 0. – I don’t know if you’re not counting Zephyrite Aspects uses as jumps or not, but either way the number is neither 1 nor is it 0. It takes several jumps, and several uses of the Zephyrite Aspect skills to get to the Living Story NPC’s.(Which is required to progress in the LS.) Then there are several uses of the Zephyrite Aspects in the next 2 living story instances. Then another Zephyrite Aspect use to get down to the area where the town is.(And I haven’t figured that one out yet, I still fall to my death.) I don’t know what definition of “redid”, “required”, “jump”, or “whole map” you’re using. But unless you sat at the first waypoint and did nothing, I don’t see how you can say the number of required jumps is 0. Plus there are ZA uses required for events, to get to other areas of the zone, for the other Living Story instances, and for the boss fight.(We won’t count the ones needed for gathering as gathering is really optional.)
The number of required Zephyrite Aspect uses (just to get to the Living Story NPC’s) is about 6 or 7, the number of jumps is about 7 or 8. No matter how you add those up, the the total number is neither 0, nor 1. Even if you take them separately, the number is neither 0 nor 1.

re: 2. Too bad that is not the case at all. It’s not a prerequisit. You don’t have to ‘jump’ a single time. – Once again, this is totally incorrect.(see above)

Spoofy.8239:

The point that the original post made was the change in the play of GW2 making jumping a prerequisite to continue with the main story and play.

This is a valid point.

I agree with your post in terms of how people treat others. There’s a whole heap of people who should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves, but it’s one of those times that I’d say just leave it – you won’t convince them, sadly – and let karma and time deal with it.

If there’s one thing I’ve learned from these forums, it’s semantics are everything. Just one word, one phrase, and regardless of intention, a post can be wiped from the slate as “lies”, “whining”, “kitten”. I actually wrote “kitten” there. It’s a fallacy of thought, of course, but it derails a thread no end and serves a cruel purpose. The onus is on any poster to make themselves as clear as they can, but not everyone has the skill, and from what we’ve seen, there is a dearth of forgiving, empathetic thinking. This is very sad, but I hope time will treat those who lack well and they evolve into kinder-thinking individuals.

I think the problem of semantics lies in the word “jumping” being tagged to the aspect crystal mechanics – they’re technically not the same. That’s not to say the mechanics don’t involve jumping – patently, they do – but using “jumping” as the barrier to story isn’t explicit. A lot of people may comprehend the meaning when it’s used in this context, however there’s people who clearly disagree and can use this as a (fair) counter-argument, even if there’s a lot to be desired in delivery. Irrespective, the timeout on the crystals was enough that I ended up having to do a smidge of jumping anyway.

I think the aspect mechanics can be fun, but they shouldn’t be used on a timer – unless you’re going after achievements, perhaps. Or at least, they should stack and have a longer timer, to allow for some thought ahead of action. And they shouldn’t be necessary just for the story scenes, no. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be used for it either, but an alternative should be available or a more robust aspect system which is in sync. with other bundle mechanics. Finally, jumping should never get in the way of story but it, if memory serves, never has. If it has, come with me and I’ll pop a nice mesmer portal!

re: And yet this have been the case for TWO YEARS how come it is suddenly such an issue? – We’ve been skipping a lot of the jump-heavy content. But now it has been slammed down as a road block/bottleneck/kill joy at the very beginning of the much-hyped Living Story Season 2. Now it’s restricting access and killing enjoyment of a very large chunk of upcoming mainstream content. Also, we’ve been reminded that this isn’t the first time this has happened. And that we should have raised our objections earlier, and in greater numbers. Thank you for reminding us that we need to make our voices heard.

But it have been blocking progress to story since release as well, and yet there doesn’t seem to have been any issues until now.
Did people suddenly get much worse at jumping? Or was it simply the fact that they could find nothing else to complain about with the update?

Hm, now that I think about it, there is 1 jump required at the final bossfight! Hurray! All complaints are legit now!

Yes, my definition of jump probably differs, and let me explain why:

Pressing spacebar is not a jump. Sure, it let’s your character hop into the air, but you are not performing a jump. You are just pressing a button while standing still as your character executes the action you have assigned. Just as well you can press any number key on your keyboard to execute the action assigned to it.

To preform a real jump in a video game, that means you either have to get from one disjointed platform to another or do a jump in a timely manner – as in jump at the right time. Also there is a risk that if you fail the jump, you may end up in a worse situation than before. That means you plan, aim and execute your jump while you change places (aka. move) whit a chance to fall. That is jumping.

Now with that in mind, let’s review the aspects shall we? From easiest to hardest to distinguish:

1. Lightning Dash – Is this a jump? While it let’s you go to one place from another, and you do have to plan your route, you still stay on the same platform (granted you don’t run off of one) and you stay on the ground. Conclusion: This is not a jump.

2. Lighning pull Is this a jump? Now we are getting tricky! It let’s you travel to a different place, and you even leave the ground, also, planning is required. The thing is, you don’t preform a jump. You just select the skill, select the destination, and use the skill. Just like using any other ground targeted skill – especially leap like skills (mesmer’s blink eg.). Is this any different from a blink or a leap skill? No. Therefore: It is not a jump.

3. Assisted leap – Is this a jump? Yes! You leave the ground, you have the option to move while mid air, and you use it to get to different platforms. Exquisit. But let’s take a closer look shall we? How many times do you actually have to perform something else than just pressing 1 (or any key you assigned). The awnser is… 0. That is correct. Nowhere on the map (if you want to complete the story that is and not do the jumping puzzle, that’s a different story) do you have to actually use this skill to get from one platform to the other with the risk of missing your jump or falling down. Every single time (3 in total I believe) you are on a huge platform and the destination is right in front of you with no gaps at all. It is the same thing as climbing a stairwell in Orr.

So here is what you do: 1. Press autorun – run in the wall. 2. Press the 1 skill. For advanced players: Press W (forward key) and 1 skill simultanously.

This may seem like a hard thing to do, or an actual jump, but sadly, it still isn’t. With no risk of falling down, no planning at all (just good old autorun) it’s still 1 buttonpress. But if you would be so cranky as to count these, a total of 3 is required of these to “progress” in your story.

So is this a jump? Yes – but it is not required just for the story.

The only time you have to jump in the story, is when you fight the last boss, and you have to break it’s shield on the middle platform. That is a real legit jump. You lift into the air from one platform, land on an other, and you have a risk of falling down and having to repeat.

So, what are we arguing about again?

Ah, you’re mincing words so that nothing is actually categorized as a jump. Way to make your point! Nothing is actually a “jump”, so no “jumps” are required. Yeah, that totally proves your point.

Yes it does?

That’s like saying:
“In our survey of Ford, GM, and Toyota vehicles, we have declared that no Ford, GM, or Toyota products are vehicles. Therefore, there have been no vehicle recalls for these companies.”
So no, it totally doesn’t prove your point. In my Logic class I think that was called “The Fallacy of Total BS”
I will give you that the dash is a speed boost, not technically a jump.(though it is an encumbering, tacked on mechanic) But the other two Zephyrite Aspects are definitely jumps.

Anet -

please remove all combat from the game, I don’t want to fight and cannot do the content.

please remove all dynamic events from the game, I always fail those and cannot do the content.

please remove all dungeons from the game, I don’t want to play in a group and cannot do the content.

please remove all jumping from the game, I cannot do the content.

Whether it’s down to disability or inability, it’s always easier to complain than practice to beat the content.

Gaming with a disability of some kind – sure it will be even more challenging than it is for players without any disability – but where does the line get drawn and how many disabilities must Anet cater for in their development of their game? This game heavily relies on keyboard and mouse for control of your character, and I’m sad to say, that maybe if you have severe arthritis (example further up) or similar, you might actually not get to play any/all content. Should Anet also cater to those suffering from sensory disabilities? mental disabilties?

Don’t get me wrong, I applaud you if you are playing GW2 and suffering from some severe disability that makes it even more challenging, that alone is a win! But it’s wrong to demand Anet cater for all these disabilities in their game.