Guild Wars 2

I am very confused after Rising Flames. I can’t understand how did he change his mind about everything.

In the epizode “Out of the Shadows”, he said: “You are a heretic, Caudecus! And you shall lead no White Mantle, for I am their GOD!”

So, if he will lead White Mantle again, what will happen? The White Mantle will turn into good way as Lazarus or Lazarus is lying…

When he appeared in the Egg’s Chamber I thought, he will take Aurene, but he didn’t. I was very surprised.

And the situation looks like: “Hi Guys, I am Lazarus, I was evil, but you can trust me, I change my mind and I want fight against dragons with you”. I don’t believe him.

I cannot understand why Marjory wants help him and she trusts him.

Character inconsistency has actually become rather annoying plague of the past two episodes. Almost none of the characters, bar some exceptions, can’t really keep… not even true to themselves, but at least make it seem they haven’t got insane.

There was Almorra Soulkeeper in the previous episode, who’s gone from the calm, collected and dignified old warhound into a shrieking, hysterical mimsy that was for whatever reason sent to do errand-boy duty that befits a common soldier, not the general of the Vigil.

There’s the constant plague of Caithe, who is consistent herself, but is being treated according to what seems a roll of a dice. People around her, especially the player character, go from accusing her of being shifty to getting all chummy again and back to suspicion. This yo-yo effect thing is even more annoying by being brought up EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. she appears.

Lazarus is mentioned above, but the treatment by Marjory and even the treatment he’s given by others present reeks of plot necessity instead of normal character development.

I mean, as much as I like Rox and Braham, it makes me actually happy they haven’t been around yet, since that allows them to escape unmolested, but please… these things are rather cringeworthy and make the story run as smooth as an agave cactus being shoved down the throat of a slightly worried budgerigar. Even though I genuinely love the new mechanics, the story really does leave a bad taste in my mouth this time around, which, except for that one weird Caithe-centric episode back in LS2, didn’t happen before :/

Why do you think she trusts him? I thought she was more interested in how he came back (my guess would be she wants to bring her sister back) and hence cooperated with him.

I thought marjory was more like “oh interesting study subject!”…

I cannot understand how we expect Marjory to keep tabs on a being that is now near godlike in power.

The story is pretty inconsistent – like Changer said. It’s just sad and pathetic to see things like Marjory say “okay entity that as far as I know has the power of a god – we’ll try it your way – but I’ve got my eye on you”. Just wow.

It’s not that she does or does not trust him – it’s that she and the player character seem completely unfazed by how strong Lazarus is.

I’ll agree that the “nice second life, shame if something were to happen to it” line (paraphrased) seemed like a chihuahua yapping at a wolf. Overconfident much, Commander Boss Poobah?

But I see Marjory as driven to examine him, and possibly mesmerized (not game-style, just the regular meaning of the word) by the death two-way transition energy she can sense in him. Even so, however, sheesh. Here is a baddie, from a race of baddies, who sponsored a human faction that remains boogyman level in human culture to this day on the same level as a certain horrid governing party of the 1940’s is to us, and the characters are all “you’re not so tough, so what if you pinned us down with a thought and burned a small army of White Mantle before our eyes, we’ll just pound you if you move wrong.” Sure we’ve taken out some big threats, with the aid of armies. One on one there should be a bit more concern.

Idk… with the somewhat poorly implemented ancient magics mastery and the power to reflect Spectral Agony back on it’s source (which both seemed to come out of nowhere, and is the only special ability Mursaat have (unless they want to surprise us?)) I don’t feel Lazarus would be all that difficult. And the fact that he’s not responding outwardly negative to threats by a species once deemed inferior by his people, I dare hope his arrogance was toned down a few notches by his near-death experience. I won’t doubt his desire to see the demise of the elder dragons but I will always have doubts about his end-game.

I’m not one of those fans being here from the start of GW1, but from what i hear mursaat are very cunning and deceieing race and the players in the first game thought they are the good guys in the begining so Imo Lazarus just wants our help to kill more dragons so he can absorb more magic and then deal with us… pls excuse my english.

Koceto.6930:

I’m not one of those fans being here from the start of GW1, but from what i hear mursaat are very cunning and deceieing race and the players in the first game thought they are the good guys in the begining so Imo Lazarus just wants our help to kill more dragons so he can absorb more magic and then deal with us… pls excuse my english.

Problem is, literally everyone in-universe knows Mursaat are cunning tricksters, even your player character with their suddenly inexplicable encyclopekittennowledge of a organisation that was up to recently considered nonexistent for some 200+ odd years, and what Lazarus did required no cunning or trickery.

He literally just came up and said “Hey, I’m good, K?” and the commander and Marjory basically just rolled with it. Some of the dialogue even lampshades how silly it is, which doesn’t make it any less hard to digest.

[… lol, the profanity filter has problem with knowledge that spans an encyclopedia]

Arden.7480:

So, if he will lead White Mantle again, what will happen? The White Mantle will turn into good way as Lazarus or Lazarus is lying…

Well to be fair, there’s no more Abaddon so the threat of Titans is no longer relevant to any Mursaat. Abaddon pulled a Self Fullfilling Prophecy on the Mursaat which begs the question, would they have sacrificed any one on the Bloodstones to reinforce the Door of Komalie if their existence wasn’t threatened by what was on the other side.

I hope he’s honest or at least practical, “I don’t like you but we both don’t like the Elder Dragons.”

Then again, the bias in me has loved the Mursaat since Prophecies so I was happy to see him come to our aid…. again.

Muchacho.2390:

Why do you think she trusts him? I thought she was more interested in how he came back (my guess would be she wants to bring her sister back) and hence cooperated with him.

Precisely. “The Necromancer in me…” had me thinking the exact same thing. Whether or not it’ll back fire in a tragic sacrifice deal is another question all together however.

Ronin.7381:

Arden.7480:

So, if he will lead White Mantle again, what will happen? The White Mantle will turn into good way as Lazarus or Lazarus is lying…

Well to be fair, there’s no more Abaddon so the threat of Titans is no longer relevant to any Mursaat. Abaddon pulled a Self Fullfilling Prophecy on the Mursaat which begs the question, would they have sacrificed any one on the Bloodstones to reinforce the Door of Komalie if their existence wasn’t threatened by what was on the other side.

I hope he’s honest or at least practical, “I don’t like you but we both don’t like the Elder Dragons.”

Then again, the bias in me has loved the Mursaat since Prophecies so I was happy to see him come to our aid…. again.

And, Lazarus has died through seeing the result of the Mursaat treachery. I was going to say he lived through that chain of events, but he didn’t. Of course, I’m not sure if Lazarus is being dishonest, or if he’s just too full of coming across as righteous and holy to use honest snark.

I don’t like how our characters were, well, characterized. Sure, I understand being distrustful of him – but the threats were absolutely laughable, and uncalled for. (Then again… he had me at his very first words. He’s now my second-favorite character, beating out my long-standing favorite Captain Ashym from the Urban Battleground fractal)

There’s a whole pile of “I know you know” going on with Lazarus, though – We know Mursaat were untrustworthy. Lazarus knows we know Mursaat were untrustworthy. He’s now come with the same deal from all those centuries ago, but… is he being honest, knowing that because we know the Mursaat are dishonest, he might as well not try to decieve us. Or will he try to decieve us anyway with the same deal, knowing that we know that’s what he’s doing, and we know he knows it, so would he really try it? I’ve gone cross-eyed.

The commander did NOT “roll with it”. S/he told Lazarus to get lost, then Marjory jumped onto the idea and latched onto Lazarus for whatever necromantic reason she had, even being all “you’re not the boss of me!” to the commander when s/he objects.

I still believe Lazarus is harboring ulterior motives. A magical race probably needs some backup when magic eating dragons are around so he offers at least a reasonable explanation.
He DID talk about “higher goals” already when Caudecus was involved. Perhaps he’s collecting magical energy to revive his people somehow and needs the stored energies of the dragons to get closer to acquire the needed power to pull it off.

i would have liked Lazarus to join us but not this way it was too soon i would have preferred it better if we went to him for help as a last resort cause i got to imagine after absorbing the bloodstone which also got magic from a dead elder dragon hes got to be close to rivaling one of them

MLinni.6109:

The commander did NOT “roll with it”. S/he told Lazarus to get lost, then Marjory jumped onto the idea and latched onto Lazarus for whatever necromantic reason she had, even being all “you’re not the boss of me!” to the commander when s/he objects.

Yeah, and that kind of kittened me off. I mean, Marjory spent the entire LWS2 (i dunno about S1 because i wasn’t there when it happened) and HoT campaign calling me “Boss” at least once every five seconds, and now she suddenly says to me “You can’t tell me what to do!” O_o
Wait….. WHAT? Yes, darling, I CAN tell you what to do, since i’m the kitten leader of the Guild you are part of. It’s my Job. What’s with your attitude all of a sudden? >_<

Sir Alric.5078:

MLinni.6109:

The commander did NOT “roll with it”. S/he told Lazarus to get lost, then Marjory jumped onto the idea and latched onto Lazarus for whatever necromantic reason she had, even being all “you’re not the boss of me!” to the commander when s/he objects.

Yeah, and that kind of kittened me off. I mean, Marjory spent the entire LWS2 (i dunno about S1 because i wasn’t there when it happened) and HoT campaign calling me “Boss” at least once every five seconds, and now she suddenly says to me “You can’t tell me what to do!” O_o
Wait….. WHAT? Yes, darling, I CAN tell you what to do, since i’m the kitten leader of the Guild you are part of. It’s my Job. What’s with your attitude all of a sudden? >_<

yeah after some second thoughts there is some discord here – for two living story seasons and expac she was doing what she was told to only to now suddenly burst out like that….

I really hope there is very importan reason for that which we will get to know in one from the next episodes…

Good point – it really is upsetting.
You’re the “commander” but you don’t actually command anything and it seems anyone in your group can do as they please if they decide you’re not to be listened to.

It’s also very weird how we try to threaten and tell Lazarus to go away. I mean – really?
I would have expected a line more similar to “get all the Exalted – we must fight and push him back” not just “get away from here you meanine”.

Ronin.7381:

Arden.7480:

So, if he will lead White Mantle again, what will happen? The White Mantle will turn into good way as Lazarus or Lazarus is lying…

Well to be fair, there’s no more Abaddon so the threat of Titans is no longer relevant to any Mursaat. Abaddon pulled a Self Fullfilling Prophecy on the Mursaat which begs the question, would they have sacrificed any one on the Bloodstones to reinforce the Door of Komalie if their existence wasn’t threatened by what was on the other side.

I hope he’s honest or at least practical, “I don’t like you but we both don’t like the Elder Dragons.”

Then again, the bias in me has loved the Mursaat since Prophecies so I was happy to see him come to our aid…. again.

PREACH!!! Yeah there’s no real reason to have the Mursaat as an immediate threat yet…cause if memory is correct they were only really the antagonist in GW1 Proph because of the Flame Seeker Prophecy, War in Kryta was a completely different story…but I don’t see him going for the Shining Blade until the Fire Island chain is cleared of Primordis…

Anywho I’m guessing Majory is trying to learn about Laz…and possibly try to find out how exactly he came back and maybe she can bring her sister back? Since her sister soul is in her sword?

• I don’t believe Lazarus. Or, perhaps he’s (literally) of two minds. If you were the last god on Tyria, you might go a little nuts without any peers to hang out with.
• Marjory seems as if she’s being influenced by an outside power. Remember: primordus now has some of the mental powers of Mordremoth and it’s possible she’s under his spell.
• Another possibility is she’s still overcome with grief about the death of her unmemorable sister that she’s willing to go to any lengths to try to resurrect her (including: allowing herself to be fooled by the same mursaat that fooled so many humans before).

It’s pretty sad to me that our PC has little choice but to trust the guarding of the mini-dragon to the proven-untrustworthy-Caithe. This won’t end well.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• I don’t believe Lazarus. Or, perhaps he’s (literally) of two minds. If you were the last god on Tyria, you might go a little nuts without any peers to hang out with.
• Marjory seems as if she’s being influenced by an outside power. Remember: primordus now has some of the mental powers of Mordremoth and it’s possible she’s under his spell.
• Another possibility is she’s still overcome with grief about the death of her unmemorable sister that she’s willing to go to any lengths to try to resurrect her (including: allowing herself to be fooled by the same mursaat that fooled so many humans before).

It’s pretty sad to me that our PC has little choice but to trust the guarding of the mini-dragon to the proven-untrustworthy-Caithe. This won’t end well.

I agree with you on all of this except for Caithe. I’m not convinced that she is untrustworthy so much as she has shown herself to make bad decisions just like the rest of us. I really do think she is trying to redeem herself.

I felt the same way when it was happening about Marjorie’s sister. I just have a gut feeling she is trying to find a way to bring Belinda back. I hope she cannot. It would really cheapen her death.

jheryn.8390:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• I don’t believe Lazarus. Or, perhaps he’s (literally) of two minds. If you were the last god on Tyria, you might go a little nuts without any peers to hang out with.
• Marjory seems as if she’s being influenced by an outside power. Remember: primordus now has some of the mental powers of Mordremoth and it’s possible she’s under his spell.
• Another possibility is she’s still overcome with grief about the death of her unmemorable sister that she’s willing to go to any lengths to try to resurrect her (including: allowing herself to be fooled by the same mursaat that fooled so many humans before).

It’s pretty sad to me that our PC has little choice but to trust the guarding of the mini-dragon to the proven-untrustworthy-Caithe. This won’t end well.

I agree with you on all of this except for Caithe. I’m not convinced that she is untrustworthy so much as she has shown herself to make bad decisions just like the rest of us. I really do think she is trying to redeem herself.

bonus points for the line from previous episode where she explain herself why she was doing all the stuff she was doing in LS2 which sound legit especially considering what she was mumbling in said season….

How are you guys missing Marjory’s rather obvious motivations? She practically spells it out for us.

She’s a necromancer and she’s talking to a guy who has literally been resurrected. If it can happen to him, maybe she can learn how to get her sister back.

Donari.5237:

I’ll agree that the “nice second life, shame if something were to happen to it” line (paraphrased) seemed like a chihuahua yapping at a wolf. Overconfident much, Commander Boss Poobah?

I thought it was a great line and in character with things I would say. Then I got to see Lazarus fight and he was nearly useless. He couldn’t even hold aggro on the boss, telling you what Primordius thinks of him. An arrow cart would have been more effective than this “god,” and a single yak delivers enough supply to build 2.5 of them.

As weak as the Pact is after Mordremoth victimized them, the White Mantle is much weaker. Lazarus’s ineptitude in battle and desire to form an alliance proves this.

MLinni.6109:

then Marjory jumped onto the idea and latched onto Lazarus for whatever necromantic reason she had…

I too think this has something to do with Belinda from Season 2 whom was killed by Mordremoth’s assault in Kissex.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

It’s pretty sad to me that our PC has little choice but to trust the guarding of the mini-dragon to the proven-untrustworthy-Caithe. This won’t end well.

jheryn.8390:

I agree with you on all of this except for Caithe. I’m not convinced that she is untrustworthy so much as she has shown herself to make bad decisions just like the rest of us. I really do think she is trying to redeem herself.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

bonus points for the line from previous episode where she explain herself why she was doing all the stuff she was doing in LS2 which sound legit especially considering what she was mumbling in said season….

Sure, she’s given an explanation, but she’s failed to actually do anything different. She still says she made the right call (hint: stealing the egg wasn’t the right call) and she still waits until we’re busy fighting for our lives before bringing up anything important. She reminds me of a kid who keeps saying they’ll clean their room… but never does and always offers a reason for why it’s a mess.

Maybe “I don’t trust her” is the wrong phrasing. I am convinced that when she’s confronted with another dilemma, she’ll make another bad choice that will lead to Dragons’s’s’s [sic] edge having more problems. I don’t think she’s evil or malicious; she’s just not a team player.

RedDeadFred.1256:

How are you guys missing Marjory’s rather obvious motivations? She practically spells it out for us.

She’s a necromancer and she’s talking to a guy who has literally been resurrected. If it can happen to him, maybe she can learn how to get her sister back.

That’s why I wrote the following (and possibly what other folks were agreeing with).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• Another possibility is she’s still overcome with grief about the death of her unmemorable sister that she’s willing to go to any lengths to try to resurrect her (including: allowing herself to be fooled by the same mursaat that fooled so many humans before).

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

• Another possibility is she’s still overcome with grief about the death of her unmemorable sister that she’s willing to go to any lengths to try to resurrect her (including: allowing herself to be fooled by the same mursaat that fooled so many humans before).

This sounds plausible to me. I think it would also be a good explanation for her behavior.

I still believe, however, it could be a matter of just poor decision making. Sometimes even when a decision is blaringly wrong to the rest of the world, the person who made that decision will still believe they did the right thing.

Despite her obvious mistakes, I still want to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Just played through LS3 twice and Lazarus is the absolute nadir of GW writing. It’s almost like the writers said, “You thought Scarlet was a Mary Sue? We’ll give you a Mary Sue.” He’s extremely powerful. He shows up out of nowhere. He has no real role in the story other than to be there. And characters immediately start liking him for no good reason.

Exactly: ‘And the situation looks like: “Hi Guys, I am Lazarus, I was evil, but you can trust me, I change my mind and I want fight against dragons with you”. I don’t believe him.’

The whole dialogue was so forced and painful to experience. It’s obvious that the character is shoehorned in the plot for reasons. Much of the dialogue reads like the writer has a crush on the character. It is fan-fic writing. Think of all your criticisms of him. Guess what the PC said them and we got a direct answer for them. Seriously. This happened. We are forced to like him. The weak protests of the PC are set up to force everyone to accept him. You can almost feel the chains wrap around the other characters when he shows up. Oh wait, that literally happens we he first appears.

He has no other role in the story other than “look! it’s Lazarus for no reason.” The impact of removing him from the story would be improving it.

And Marjorie going with him is downright offense. Some deplorables threw a fit over Marj and Kas, so Kas has been absent from LS3 so far. And then to have Marj join Lazarus for “mystical reasons” is insulting. She’s obviously the more popular character, so by having her with Lazarus, we should like this character more. Please…

But the the absolute worst crime of Lazarus is that he is boring. For all of Scarlet’s flaws as a character, she was at least entertaining to watch. Scarlet also got away with a lot because it’s harder for a villain to be a Mary Sue. We are meant to hate them. But when you are obviously being manipulated to like Lazarus, a dull, poorly-developed trope whose only grace is nostalgia (for a minor, who cares, character), that’s offensive to us as readers and embarrassing to Anet as writers.

DaShi.1368:

He’s extremely powerful. He shows up out of nowhere. He has no real role in the story other than to be there. And characters immediately start liking him for no good reason.

I’m usually one for critizing bad writing from Anet right away, but I disagree with this.

Yes, he’s extremely powerful, but technically always was – all mursaat were – though he’s now more powerful.

He may not necessarily come out of nowhere. I think this is meant to be a subtle plot element. If you read Cami’s journals, she mentions the feeling that she’s being watched. There’s two plausible situations:

1) Lazarus was hidden on Ember Bay, watching the asura first then the Pact Commander and followed the PC to Tarir.
2) Lazarus is the reason the shield failed and did this to gain trust.

And the only character who “immediately” likes Lazarus is Marjory, but this is more as an interesting subject to study rather than her new BFF.

• Caudecus was in denial, losing his primary army against someone he thought either myth or permanently incapacitated.
• The Pact is, rather rightfully, distrusting and hostile, only willing to work with Lazarus due to the necessity of the situation.
• The Luminate was ignorant of who Lazarus was at first, but once learning he was mursaat she became just as distrusting and hostile, but differred to the Pact Commander’s judgement as they are the “egg bearer”.
• Marjory’s, as said, the only other one with a reaction which was instantly intrigued by him from the end of Out of the Shadows and was equally (or more) intrigued at the end of Rising Flames. While it makes little sense, IMO, for her to be intrigued by Lazarus she is at least consistent in that.

DaShi.1368:

Guess what the PC said them and we got a direct answer for them. Seriously. This happened. We are forced to like him. The weak protests of the PC are set up to force everyone to accept him.

Weak protests? The only reason why the PC doesn’t attack Lazarus on sight is the situation. The destroyers were overrunning the PC.

And I disagree that we are “forced to like him” – the situation is shady as kitten and the PC knows it. It’s only Marjory who is at all accepting of Lazarus.

You said you played through it a second time. Go play through it a third time. Because first time I played through I got that feeling of “this feels just like Caithe” at the end of Rising Flames, but I didn’t get that feeling the second time.

DaShi.1368:

AndShe’s obviously the more popular character, so by having her with Lazarus, we should like this character more. Please…

This sounds like a load of bull, in all honesty.

Marjory is the only character that makes sense being sent with Lazarus, TBH, due to the whole necromancer thing. If any character “had to go with Lazarus for plot reasons”, then Marjory is the obvious answer.

DaShi.1368:

But the the absolute worst crime of Lazarus is that he is boring. For all of Scarlet’s flaws as a character, she was at least entertaining to watch. Scarlet also got away with a lot because it’s harder for a villain to be a Mary Sue. We are meant to hate them.

We’ve seen Lazarus twice. You cannot really judge interesting-or-boring off of that, really, and the first impression was a kitten good one.

And Scarlet being entertaining? HAH! Not in the least. She was literally a British Harley Quinn and without all the good qualities of Harley Quinn (and seriously – Tara Strong, Scarlet’s VA, said that when she first went in to record she was told that her character was “basically a British Harley Quinn” – don’t believe me? watch and find out ). And it’s fairly easy for villains to be Mary Sues… Scarlet was one the very instant she was revealed with that crummy backstory. You cannot call Lazarus a Mary Sue (or Gary Stue) yet, since we’ve only encountered him twice in GW2 and very little both times – and hell, the very origin story for him is that he has a major flaw.

This is kind of what I expected from a defense of Lazarus. “But there’s this. And there’s this.” Exactly. The problem is that his “flaws” and the PCs protests are handled so ham-handedly that they are obvious covers for the Mary Sue that they are getting ready to force into this story. It literally reads like they looked at what a Mary Sue was and added some counterpoints to it to defend this character. You can speculate all you want, but that doesn’t change the bad writing. I honestly believe based on the writing that someone at Anet has a crush on Lazarus. He just doesn’t fit in this story.

Yes. British Harley is more interesting that Lazarus, who has simplistic dialogue and motivations. If they could only have gotten Ben Stein to voice him. Then they could at least have been ironic.

What you’re describing with “they looked at what a Mary Sue was and added some counterpoints to it to defend this character” is precisely how Scarlet felt. Lazarus doesn’t feel that way at all.

I mean, hell, everything that you argue makes Lazarus a Mary Sue was added after the character was made and introduced.

And I wouldn’t call Lazarus’ motivations simplistic when we aren’t even sure what they are.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What you’re describing with “they looked at what a Mary Sue was and added some counterpoints to it to defend this character” is precisely how Scarlet felt. Lazarus doesn’t feel that way at all.

I mean, hell, everything that you argue makes Lazarus a Mary Sue was added after the character was made and introduced.

And I wouldn’t call Lazarus’ motivations simplistic when we aren’t even sure what they are.

I don’t think you can speak for how other people feel about Lazarus. In particular, I thought Scarlet was more interesting and well-rounded than what we’ve seen of Lazarus. In his two appearances, he’s been a Deus Ex Machina: whatever action was going on was completely interrupted when he showed up, changing the otherwise inevitable result.

If that’s all he does in every future episode, I don’t care if that’s “Mary Sue” or not — it gets annoying and dull after the first time.

However, I fully expect that he’ll have a more interesting role in the future.

DaShi.1368:

You can speculate all you want, but that doesn’t change the bad writing. I honestly believe based on the writing that someone at Anet has a crush on Lazarus. He just doesn’t fit in this story.

I think the whole team have a crush on the Mursaat [and Mesmers], but this doesn’t justify throwing Lazarus out of the blue.

As a personal preference I’d had liked it better if the sub-plot was about politics, Caudecus throwing DR into Chaos causing civil unrest, etc.

Yea there are alot of things that really break the story for me with these episodes.

I find it amusing how you basically treat Caithe like crap for keeping the egg away from everyone (especially Mordy) and safe yet your character practically lets Lazarus and Marjory walk off together.

it feels to me like it went from:
Personal story
Living world story
Linear story

The storyline no longer feels personal to my character anymore since the game no longer branches off into different routes but joining up again later on which was one of the positives of this game.

The difference with Marjory and Caithe is that Caithe was hiding something very vital from the Commander, Marjory just wandered off like Braham did too. That Marjory wandered off with Lazarus makes it of course a little suspicious, but it is not like Marjory is endangering Tyria with that.

I am personally a little bit unsure where to put Lazarus in:
*He probably lacks the power to challenge a dragon one to one, even after absorbing so much magic, but is strong enough to burn minions out with ease. That means he needs the help of other powerful beings in a direct confrontation, which would make it logical for him to seek out the people who have already managed to kill 2 dragons.
*I think his change is genuine. I would at least find this refresing to see instead of a villain that is always a villain and will stay a villain.
*I also think that he appears right in time is either cleverly orchestrated from his side or a very unsubtile plot hammer. The later would make him clearly a Gary.

Donari.5237:

I’ll agree that the “nice second life, shame if something were to happen to it” line (paraphrased) seemed like a chihuahua yapping at a wolf. Overconfident much, Commander Boss Poobah?

I’m not sure that’s the case, actually.

The actual strength of the Pact Commander is a little undefined – however, I think there’s an element that, however much ArenaNet might not formally admit it, mechanically speaking we’re only really the Pact Commander in a non-raid story instance. Otherwise, we’re just one adventurer among many. This is why we get things like the Eyes of Zhaitan being champions that can down most players in seconds with an attack that’s difficult to mitigate short of blocking line of sight, while the Supreme Eye of Zhaitan – supposedly the most powerful – is relatively easy to solo.

Mechanically, champions and legendaries in the open world that we need large groups to stand up to are commonplace. Lorewise, the Pact Commander could probably solo them, or at least take them on with a few members of Destiny’s Edge.

In the context of the Dragon Vigil instance… is Lazarus really showing that much more power than the Pact Commander here? He makes a big splash when he arrives, but then, so did the Luminate. Otherwise… he’s basically blocking a ‘lane’ and not actually seeming to do appreciably much greater amounts of damage than an AoE-focused PC. I suspect he’s got a lot of magical power he can use to drop really dangerous AoE effects and a fight with him would involve dodging lots of orange circles and making a lot of use of Counter Magic… but I think the PC is close enough in power that a fight between the mursaat who swallowed a bloodstone and the hero who’s killed two dragons and a few dragon champions wouldn’t be onesided, and Lazarus would be wary of underestimating what a mortal hero with that resume can do. Particularly given how most of the other mursaat died.

Iurisdictio.6352:

Idk… with the somewhat poorly implemented ancient magics mastery and the power to reflect Spectral Agony back on it’s source (which both seemed to come out of nowhere, and is the only special ability Mursaat have (unless they want to surprise us?)) I don’t feel Lazarus would be all that difficult.

It’s easy to miss, but Counter Magic was based on Zinn’s research on Infusion from the War in Kryta, which resulted in the development of a shield that reflected Spectral Agony back on the Jades and Mursaat. It was actually quite a clever tieback, IMO.

Meanwhile, they have, possibly quite deliberately, not given us a way to see Lazarus unless he wishes to be seen.

The Pact Commander is implied throughout Heart of Thorns to be really, really strong. During each race’s personal story up to Zhaitan we often develop tools and assist in Asuran research to conquer each foe up to the Elder Dragon. After Zhaitan however we literally run up to stuff and kill it (notably so past LS2). This is not a sign of growth but of growth beyond measure: this would not be good mechanically but lorewise we are likely on par with your legendary, map-wide meta mob. Even if technically we are still being assisted by magitech (with Taimi more than any other asura right now), it is still the PC that is personally achieving stuff. Not to mention we have also by now likely surpassed every member of Destiny’s Edge (every member together even? I believe we are pretty much walking terminators by now), and they were pretty powerful to begin with.

Lazarus has absorbed most of a bloodstone’s power but we don’t really know to what extent he can actually even use it (maybe he’s overloaded and has to keep an effort to maintain his form?); He also acknowlegdes that we killed both dragons we came across (one of them, quite literally in that we broke apart its mind). If you assume he is a walking Gary Stu godlike figure (which he isn’t because he has clear flaws outlined unlike Scarlet), the PC would certainly be an even bigger one.

I think Arenanet are going to keep the mystery on his ulterior motives and allegance for a very, very long time. Right now it makes sense that he would be an ally because the dragons are menacing him as much as they are menacing us so he’ll play nice, but when all dragons are dead —and with 2 dragons awakened and 2 dead it may come quicker than expected-- he may see it as his time to “fill the void.”

One thing’s sure though: after he says that the White Mantle should revere him as a god, I “agree” with my character. I don’t trust him.

If he’s actually a good mursaat Arenanet will probably just get him corrupted by <insert some magical corrupting artifact or spell>. I mean come on, he’s WAY too powerful a creature, not turning him into a villain at some point would be a waste.